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Do I need a power filter?


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16 hours ago, Happy said:

 


Hey I once made some enquiries with those who actually make tube amps and the DC blockers. And that's what I was told.


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How important a DC blocker is, depends on the type of power transformer used. Most, but not all, valve amps use EI type transformers and many SS amps (but not all) use toroidal power transformers. Toroidal power transformers are MUCH more sensitive to DC on the mains supply.  

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Just now, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

How important a DC blocker is, depends on the type of power transformer used. Most, but not all, valve amps use EI type transformers and many SS amps (but not all) use toroidal power transformers. Toroidal power transformers are MUCH more sensitive to DC on the mains supply.  

 

Ya hear that @andyr ???? :P

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1 minute ago, Happy said:

 

Ya hear that @andyr ???? :P

 

Yes, I did (hear that), H. :D

 

Note that ZB - who is a guru, not a salesman like the one you talked to - said that "Toroidal power transformers are MUCH more sensitive to DC on the mains supply (than the EI transformers which tube gear generally uses)".

 

That is not the same as saying tube gear (ie. EI transformers) never need DC blockers!  :P

 

Andy

 

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Just now, andyr said:

 

Yes, I did (hear that), H. :D

 

Note that ZB - who is a guru, not a salesman like the one you talked to - said that "Toroidal power transformers are MUCH more sensitive to DC on the mains supply (than the EI transformers which tube gear generally uses)".

 

That is not the same as saying tube gear (ie. EI transformers) never need DC blockers!  :P

 

Andy

 

 

You continue to disrespect the ones I have referred Andy. They are no salesmen, and their advice appears correct based on ZB's advice with which you seemingly agree. Capitalising on such insubstantial, minor details does not make your criticism valid really :P 

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On 27 June 2017 at 9:43 AM, nzlowie said:

 

I've always been sceptical about power cords and filters but lately I've been thinking I might need to investigate this further....

 

On not sure if it's my ears, my mood or the house power but sometimes my system sounds absolutely beautiful and other times I think it's too harsh and bright.

 

I have a Weston Topaz driving my horn's. My thinking has always been that as tube amps have massive power supplies that a filter wouldn't make a lot of difference.

 

Do I need to rethink this???

 

Thanks

 

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All amps are effected by DC on line. Power filters don't remove DC. PM me if you want to try one of my DC blockers. 

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Guest Eggcup The Daft

While we're at it, let's not forget the OTHER devices in that system - the source and the class D amp driving the bass.

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On 27/06/2017 at 9:43 AM, nzlowie said:

 

I have a Weston Topaz driving my horn's. My thinking has always been that as tube amps have massive power supplies that a filter wouldn't make a lot of difference.

 

Do I need to rethink this???

 

Thanks

 

 

You asked about (hash) filters ... most of the answers have referred to DC blockers (after Wiffle introduced this concept).

 

As we've heard, DC on the mains may not be a problem for you - given you have a tube amp driving your horns.  But hash on the mains may well be causing your "harsh & bright" experience?

 

Can you borrow a hash filter to try out on your Topaz?  (This would go between the amp and the wall socket.)  I can lend you a 10a hash filter ... but the postage over to Perth & back makes it an expensive trial.  :(

 

Andy

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7 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

While we're at it, let's not forget the OTHER devices in that system - the source and the class D amp driving the bass.

 

The source might ... but I don't think the bass amp will contribute to "harsh & bright".

 

Andy

 

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Is there any particular reason you suspect a 'dirty' power supply of causing perceived brightness in your sound?

Is it with the same recordings you experience the difference? Sorry, may be an obvious question.
Is there a certain time of day the system sounds better/worse? Could be the environmental noise floor hiding HF at times.

Lastly, it could also just be you. Its fairly well documented that humans experience sound differently due to many physical and psychological reasons.

Perhaps someone has input on whether one would be able to hear dirty power coming through on high efficiency speakers when the source component isn't playing but the amp is switched on?

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Is there any particular reason you suspect a 'dirty' power supply of causing perceived brightness in your sound?

Is it with the same recordings you experience the difference? Sorry, may be an obvious question.
Is there a certain time of day the system sounds better/worse? Could be the environmental noise floor hiding HF at times.

Lastly, it could also just be you. Its fairly well documented that humans experience sound differently due to many physical and psychological reasons.

Perhaps someone has input on whether one would be able to hear dirty power coming through on high efficiency speakers when the source component isn't playing but the amp is switched on?

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Thanks everyone, the main reason for thinking it may be power is that the sound changes. Sometimes it's beautiful and other times it can be a bit harsh, something changes..... either my ears and brain or the power feeding the system. Easier to fix the power than try and fix my pee brain!

Going to try a isotec filter over the weekend so we'll see if I notice any difference.

Cheers

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I'm just going to chime in and try to clarify a few things which I think might be relevant to this discussion.

Firstly, I think we need to consider that there are at least 2 different sources of dirty power; general noise/hash/voltage variance, and DC. Both can apparently come from a multitude of sources, and not necessarily within your own home, and they can be present to differing degrees at various times of day. A regular power filter will not remove DC, and a DC blocker will only remove DC. An isotran is the only device which will get rid of both. Depending on your own circumstances you may only need a simple filter, or a simple blocker, but if you have issues with both types of contamination, you'll need to try both or an isotran. My power is generally stable, but the 1kva toroidal tranny in my amp definitely benefitted from a high-current DC blocker; I think many smaller DC blockers may be fine for small amps or source components but not for my needs.

And finally, a tube amp with a large toroid will suffer from DC contamination the same as a SS amp with the same setup; tube or SS is less important than the transformer type. Just my 2c and my opinion...

 

 

 

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I was in the same boat as the OP. There were some nights when I thought my music sounded really damn good. I picked up an Isotek Aquarius and now my music sounds that good all the time. Try a conditioner or regenerator and see if you can hear the difference.

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8 hours ago, nzlowie said:


Thanks everyone, the main reason for thinking it may be power is that the sound changes. Sometimes it's beautiful and other times it can be a bit harsh, something changes..... either my ears and brain or the power feeding the system. Easier to fix the power than try and fix my pee brain!

Going to try a isotec filter over the weekend so we'll see if I notice any difference.

Cheers

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

 

WA has the worst mains power in Australia. Voltage variations can be huge. What is likely is that you are experiencing these Voltage variations and this may be causing sonic differences. So-called 'dirty power' is probably not an issue. You should monitor your mains supply over several days and see what the results are. If it is mains supply variations, then your only solution is to use a mains regenerator, like the ones that PS Audio and others sell. LOTS more expensive than a filter. 

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Went to West Coast hifi today and they recommend I try a Thor smart board, they recon it's better than the isotec... Anyway just tried it out , first impression, happy! Will get a better idea over the next week or so but as I said happy so far.

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I've already posted my findings about the Thor, which were backed up by some keener ears than mine (andyr, djb). In short, I sold my Thor power board and kept the PS 10, and am saving for Andy's DC blocker.  (I'd be there now if I didn't keep buying other kit, and repairs)  :(

 

(repairs are not related to the Thor. In truth the Thor was purchased after a major disaster to prevent yet more repairs, and has done so, as the power fluctuations around here are just disgusting.)

 

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Having read quite a number of threads on this forum comparing the two brands I don't think you will find many who agree that Thor is better than the Isotek gear.

 

Might be worthwhile trying both.

 

Cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO
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