Question on long term repairability of current amplifiers

[oloughlinant]

Hi

I have been looking at amplifiers to replace my Marantz SM-80 power amp.

One of the selection criteria is the ability for a skilled technician to repair if there is a component failure.

I really know nothing about this so have been making assumptions.

I have rated amplifiers higher if they had less circuit boards and bigger wires and components; imagining that someone with an oscilloscope could identify a bad capacitor or something and solder in a new one.

Is this thinking correct?

Can old amps like the earlier ME range be repaired?

Thanks

Anthony

 

 

 

[seano]

Most of the old ME amps are eminently repairable. Many non digital amps still are but even they can be tricksy.

My NAKSA 80 was (and still is) made in Melbourne from identifiable components that could be replaced in seconds by a skilled operator (or a fraught hour or so by me) provided i/we/they can source the right value component...or I could send it back to Hugh with a not saying please fix!

[sloper]

Goodaye all

 

Anything with propriotrey parts forget it long term, especially digital stuff.

 

regards Bruce

[Sir Triode]

1 hour ago, oloughlinant said:

Hi

I have been looking at amplifiers to replace my Marantz SM-80 power amp.

One of the selection criteria is the ability for a skilled technician to repair if there is a component failure.

I really know nothing about this so have been making assumptions.

I have rated amplifiers higher if they had less circuit boards and bigger wires and components; imagining that someone with an oscilloscope could identify a bad capacitor or something and solder in a new one.

Is this thinking correct?

Can old amps like the earlier ME range be repaired?

Thanks

Anthony

 

 

 

 

Avoid anything that has proprietary parts like Sloper mentioned above - so Vitus amps are to be avoided for this reason - they use proprietary modules in their amps which are only available from them .if they go bust (the company) then you are up s**t creek.

 

I personally would also avoid anything that uses SMT or Surface Mount Technology components. They are harder to repair for the average technician and requires specialised soldering and desoldering equipment (although some techs can work around this using traditional soldering equipment).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology

 

Generally Tube pre and power amps will use traditional through hole construction or hard wired construction so you'd be safe from proprietary and SMT parts in tube amps (SMT components are not usually made for the high voltages and temps that tube amps work at). 

 

What kind of speakers are you wanting to drive? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oloughlinant]

Whatmough 303's. These are two way and supposed to be reasonably efficient. 91db?.

I already have a separate pre-amplifier, phono stage and headphone amp, so a power amp is all that is required. After a week of looking I am leaning strongly to the new ME580 as it appears to be a reasonable price for reasonable quality and I am happy with that as chasing audio nivana to the nth power is too hard. It should use more standard parts than a bigger manufacturer.

[WhakPak]

2 hours ago, oloughlinant said:

...One of the selection criteria is the ability for a skilled technician to repair if there is a component failure...

 

 

Buy a Halcro power amp. 11 years in service around the world and not a single failure in the whole fleet. Repairable if it does breakdown, they have every part to fix it.

[sir sanders zingmore]

5 minutes ago, WhakPak said:

 

Buy a Halcro power amp. 11 years in service around the world and not a single failure in the whole fleet. Repairable if it does breakdown, they have every part to fix it.

 

No Halcro amp has ever failed ?

[WhakPak]

5 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

No Halcro amp has ever failed ?

 

Not since the product evolution got to dm88. No dm88 world wide has ever needed repair. It has been out since at least 2006. And no Halcro pre-amp has ever failed either.

Edited May 29, 2017 by WhakPak

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

8 hours ago, oloughlinant said:

Hi

I have been looking at amplifiers to replace my Marantz SM-80 power amp.

One of the selection criteria is the ability for a skilled technician to repair if there is a component failure.

 

The SM-80 was a pretty decent power amp. Does it have a really serious fault? Or do you feel like a change? The SM-80 can be repaired by any competent tech, should it be required. Almost all parts are readily available, with the possible exception of the power transformer and cosmetic items. 

 

8 hours ago, oloughlinant said:

I really know nothing about this so have been making assumptions.

I have rated amplifiers higher if they had less circuit boards and bigger wires and components; imagining that someone with an oscilloscope could identify a bad capacitor or something and solder in a new one.

Is this thinking correct?

 

Sort of. Experience is helpful too. 

 

8 hours ago, oloughlinant said:

Can old amps like the earlier ME range be repaired?

 

 

Of course. The designer is still with us and is committed to ensuring his products are kept operating. Even products manufactured way back in 1977. There are some specialists around the nation that are authorised to repair ME equipment, should it be required. As a product that was designed and manufactured in Australia, spare parts are generally easier to obtain than many other products. Even the power transformer was made in Australia (which is why failure of this item is incredibly rare). Australians build very fine power transformers. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, WhakPak said:

 

Not since the product evolution got to dm88. No dm88 world wide has ever needed repair. It has been out since at least 2006. And no Halcro pre-amp has ever failed either.

 

Impressive. 

How do you know that ?

[oloughlinant]

"The SM-80 was a pretty decent power amp. Does it have a really serious fault? Or do you feel like a change? The SM-80 can be repaired by any competent tech, should it be required. Almost all parts are readily available, with the possible exception of the power transformer and cosmetic items. "

 

The SM-80 died. After a week of stalking Hi-Fi web sites, I opened it and sprayed contact cleaner in the power switch and it is good again. It was dust.

 

I enjoy the sound of the SM-80 but I assume that newer amplifiers are better. I am hoping to get even better sound staging and general improvement. Reviewers always say the next generation of a amp is better than than the last. I know there is an element of the "emperor's clothes" here but it is consistent and logical from advancement in knowledge and technology. Unless the technology is used to make it cheaper. 

 

You have planted a seed of doubt now. I will audition a new amplifier and compare to mine and report back.

[Wimbo]

9 hours ago, WhakPak said:

 

Buy a Halcro power amp. 11 years in service around the world and not a single failure in the whole fleet. Repairable if it does breakdown, they have every part to fix it.

Wrong. I've had to get the Monobloks repaired, the Multi Channel power and the Processor Preamp etc repaired.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Newer is not always better. Sometimes, newer is just newer. Contact cleaner in a power switch is not a good, long term solution. You should have the switch replaced. Additionally, given the age of your amp, most (all?) of the electrolytic capacitors will be due for replacement, along with a bias adjust. Many times, these things are the differences between new and old amps.

 

[EDIT] By all means read what reviewers write. However, ask yourself:

* What motives do the reviewers have? 

* Does the product advertise with the publication?

* Is the review accompanied by comprehensive technical data? 

Also:

Do not assume that all reviewers are the ultimate arbiters of what is correct (for you).

Reviewers are hired because they can write about audio. Their hearing may be absolute crap. 

 

I remind you of that great Australian audio publication - Hi Fi Review. Edited by the late Richard Timmins. Fabulous magazine. Not up to the high technical standards of Australian Hi Fi, but fearless in it's decision to tell it like it is. It was put out of business in short order, as advertisers pulled their advertising. It seems that telling consumers that the products that are advertised in their magazine are crap is a bad business decision. Who would have thunk that? 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Cardiiiii]

I'd say you'd be safe if you buy an Aussie made amp. Our chaps stand by their products and is usually a breeze to get repaired.

[WhakPak]

2 hours ago, Wimbo said:

Wrong. I've had to get the Monobloks repaired, the Multi Channel power and the Processor Preamp etc repaired.

 

Were they dm88 2006 build or later, or something else earlier?

My comments as to reliability were specifically about those latest model dm products from the past 11 years, not the lower spec HT gear or early model reference amps.

Edited May 30, 2017 by WhakPak

[Wimbo]

 

22 minutes ago, WhakPak said:

 

Were they dm88 2006 build or later, or something else earlier?

My comments as to reliability were specifically about those latest model dm products from the past 11 years, not the lower spec HT gear or early model reference amps.

Original Candy designs sent to Lance.Dm58's and 68's from what I remember.

[WhakPak]

8 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

 

Original Candy designs sent to Lance.Dm58's and 68's from what I remember.

 

There you go, as I thought. Those amps were earlier models built prior to 2006. The evolution of the product turned into dm88 in 2006, and in the 11 years since then not a single dm88 has broken now. Also, not a single Halcro dm8/10 pre-amp has ever broken down. Not just in Australia, in the whole production run distributed world wide. It has proven itself now to be a very reliable product.

Edited May 30, 2017 by WhakPak

[WhakPak]

5 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

Impressive. 

How do you know that ?

 

The guy at Halcro who fixes them told me.

[Wimbo]

Just now, WhakPak said:

 

There you go, as I thought. Those amps were earlier models built prior to 2006. The evolution of the product turned into dm88 in 2006, and in the 11 years since then not a single dm88 has broken now. Also, not a single Halcro dm8/10 pre-amp has ever broken down.

Halcro were shelved over this period as far as I know.

[Wimbo]

1 minute ago, WhakPak said:

 

The guy at Halcro who fixes them told me.

Lance as I mentioned.

[WhakPak]

1 minute ago, Wimbo said:

Halcro were shelved over this period as far as I know.

 

No they weren't. They were only shelved for the past 2 years, and in any event there was still a repair option over that time if anything did break down.

[Wimbo]

2 minutes ago, WhakPak said:

 

No they weren't. They were only shelved for the past 2 years, and in any event there was still a repair option over that time if anything did break down.

As above. 2008 they were shelved. Check the website.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Wimbo

[WhakPak]

I don't know how many they built. Certainly several hundred. Must be many hundreds of thousands of hours in operation world wide without a single failure. That is very impressive.

dm58/68/78 all have a repair history. dm38 and 88 were a significantly different design which has proved to be 100% reliable since 2006. dm8 and 10 design and build spec never changed over the whole product life. Halcro got those right first time, 100% reliable for all of them.

Edited May 30, 2017 by WhakPak

[sir sanders zingmore]

22 minutes ago, WhakPak said:

 

The guy at Halcro who fixes them told me.

 

Why is there a guy at Halcro who fixes them when they never break down ?

[WhakPak]

9 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

 

Why is there a guy at Halcro who fixes them when they never break down ?

 

Yep. On rare occasions when 58/68/78 break down he fixes them, but he's never had to fix a 8/10/38/88. He does other things there apart from fixing, including designing and building etc.

Edited May 30, 2017 by WhakPak