catman Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) G'day all, in thinking about plausible reasons why audio gear sounds different and disregarding any magical/mythical reasons, with my technician hat on, I'll say that 'slight' variations in the frequency response are probably responsible. In the past I've already identified how a slight bass roll off can actually make things sound 'crisper' and treble roll off, the reverse and perhaps more 'rounded' with added bass presence. Indeed this is exactly how the most basic 'bass' and 'treble' controls function. However apart from tone controls, it is interesting how subtle frequency response manipulation can change sonic perceptions. Perhaps manufacturer 'house sound' is nothing but deliberate and intentional frequency response manipulation! Phono preamps seem to be inherently subject to this sort of thing given the nature of the RIAA equalisation curve and how 'accurately' it is applied. I have seen (and heard) this for myself. Interesting, isn't it? Yes, it is! Regards, Felix. Edited May 24, 2017 by catman Punctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, catman said: Indeed this is exactly how the most basic 'bass' and 'treble' controls function. However apart from tone controls, it is interesting how subtle frequency response manipulation can change sonic perceptions. Perhaps manufacturer 'house sound' is nothing but deliberate and intentional frequency response manipulation! Taking that literally, that 'house' sound is why systems sound different in different rooms, and why what you hear in the hifi showroom, is not what you hear at home, necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, aussievintage said: Taking that literally, that 'house' sound is why systems sound different in different rooms, and why what you hear in the hifi showroom, is not what you hear at home, necessarily. I think you have interpreted Felix's "house sound" comment completely differently to the way I define it? A manufacturer's "house sound", to me, is the way that mfr's amps sound - like: Bryston amps are very dry ... they don't have the beautiful rounded nature that some ss amps have. But given your comment that "house sound is why systems sound different in different rooms" ... it seems to me you are referring to 'house sound' as the sound of the room - ie. the way your room (ie. your house) makes an amp sound??? Andy Edited May 24, 2017 by andyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Interestingly(?), if the initial proposition is true--audio gear sounds different because of slight variations in frequency response)--then both definitions of "house" are probably true. What still remains is how different amps can measure the same in terms of frequency response (most decent amps these days seem to measure FLAT) and yet sound different? How 'slight' is 'slight'? Greg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 24, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, GregWormald said: What still remains is how different amps can measure the same in terms of frequency response (most decent amps these days seem to measure FLAT) and yet sound different? How 'slight' is 'slight'? They probably don't measure the same into real speakers with real music playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 10 hours ago, andyr said: I think you have interpreted Felix's "house sound" comment completely differently to the way I define it? Yes, sort of on purpose. That's what I meant by saying I was taking "house" literally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 9 hours ago, GregWormald said: Interestingly(?), if the initial proposition is true--audio gear sounds different because of slight variations in frequency response)--then both definitions of "house" are probably true. That's what I was getting at, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 15 hours ago, catman said: I'll say that 'slight' variations in the frequency response are probably responsible. Yes. What most people describe as "slight" is really nothing of the sort Decibels are big. 15 hours ago, catman said: manufacturer 'house sound' is nothing but deliberate and intentional frequency response manipulation! That's correct. However frequency response is complicated, as it is changes with the angle we view the speaker from..... and we hear the summation of all the sound dispersed into the room. So, if we measure two different speakers from the same angle and difference..... even if they read the same response, becuase the speakers produce different responses at other angles ...... the sum of all their energy is different .... and they sound different. 12 hours ago, andyr said: A manufacturer's "house sound", to me, is the way that mfr's amp I figured he meant the "house sound" of a speaker. 12 hours ago, GregWormald said: How 'slight' is 'slight'? Depending on the Q of the change..... VERY! With extremely low Q (ie. over a wide range of frequencies) over a wide angle (if it's a speaker) .... very small fractions of a dB can be audible. 12 hours ago, GregWormald said: What still remains is how different amps can measure the same in terms of frequency response Becuase they are measuring the output of the amplifier connected to a measurement rig using one simple stimulus .... and not the output of a speaker connected to the amplifier, while examining a range of stimulus. Some amplifiers produce a load dependant frequency response..... I've posted some charts in the past of various amplifiers driving a speaker and the differences in steady state response.... a few amps up to 1 or 2 dB over a wide frequency range. ... but there's also dynamic conditions (ie. what happens to the response as other things change). An analogy would be like putting two similar cars on a dynamometer, and driving them at 60km/h .... they will usually perform extremely similar. .... but other more complex test will tease out the differences between them. 0 to 60? .... 60 to 0? ..... with 4 passengers? .... with 600kg in the boot? ..... holding a constant 60km/h around a 90 degree corner? These same tests at 5km/h? .... At 150kmh? Measurements tell you everything about an amplifier..... but what and how to measure, and how to present the data is very complicated. Just like measurement (can) tell us everything about the human body.... but if we were to take eveyones body temperature, and then try to decide if they had heart disease or not ..... then we might start to think that 'measurements don't tell the whole story' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleasantSounds Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 There's more to the sound than just frequency response - for example attack/decay, noise, distortions, phase response. We rarely get the specs on these that are detailed enough to get an idea what a given device may sound like, but they all are relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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