Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 22, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: None, but I once heard the line from a Jewish accountant on TV. Said with a Yiddish accent, it just sounds right. Please don't take it as anything other than an observation, not an attempt to deride anyone's ethnic background. It perpetuates a negative stereotype 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: What is the relevance of the accountant's religion? The bit about keeping good records is relevant to hifi! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karl Rand Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: What is the relevance of the accountant's religion? I don't want to start a flame war plus I'm aware of the forum rules so can we just back off on the political correctness? This particular saying was, and still is spoken here in Australia within the Yiddish speaking business community. "Koyfn niderik, farkoyfn hoykh ( aun haltn gut rekords)" Edited May 22, 2017 by Karl Rand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: It perpetuates a negative stereotype I don't believe it does and I certainly intended no disrespect to the ethnic group. Whilst we may not like accountants and lawyers, they are necessary and generally respected professions in Western societies. If I had suggested that a particular ethnic group indulged in the majority of drug crimes in this country, then that would certainly be a negative stereotype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 22, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: I don't believe it does and I certainly intended no disrespect to the ethnic group. Whilst we may not like accountants and lawyers, they are necessary and generally respected professions in Western societies. If I had suggested that a particular ethnic group indulged in the majority of drug crimes in this country, then that would certainly be a negative stereotype. You should do some research on the negative stereotypes around Jews and money and then come back. Also, I've worked in financial markets for 25 years. The mantra has always been "buy low, sell high". Not once ever have I seen it attributed to Jewish accountants Edited May 22, 2017 by Sir Sanders Zingmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: You should do some research on the negative stereotypes around Jews and money and then come back. Also, I've worked in financial markets for 25 years. The mantra has always been "buy low, sell high". Not once ever have I seen it attributed to Jewish accountants Shall we take this discussion to the appropriate area? I have quite a bit to say on the matter, based on personal experience and some historical investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 22, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: Shall we take this discussion to the appropriate area? I have quite a bit to say on the matter, based on personal experience and some historical investigation. Sure. We should probably take the discussion to PM given forum rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray4410 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On ?5?/?21?/?2017 at 7:48 PM, vinilink said: ME 1500 amp had a perspex cover for full viewing of internal components/design during showcasing with Pirimi HiFi at Coronation Club in Burwood in late 90s iirc. both my ME 1500 and ME 850 had perspex covers,the 1500 i had made the 850 cover was from ME nice to see those huge transformers and all those capacitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karl Rand Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: You should do some research on the negative stereotypes around Jews and money and then come back. Also, I've worked in financial markets for 25 years. The mantra has always been "buy low, sell high". Not once ever have I seen it attributed to Jewish accountants Dolink, you don't mix in the right circles already, besides, if we don't drop this off topic diversion the mods could justifiably close the tread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 On 2017-5-21 at 1:12 PM, Karl Rand said: One rip off seldom if ever mentioned in the audioporn press is reliability. If audio repair technicians' were allowed to write in these rags of their experiences with particular brands we'd all be saved a lot of heartache. Then there's the added problem we have in Australia which is another hidden rip-off. Brands change importers in Oz with such frequency only a few years after purchasing a particular product you'll learn the new importer won't supply you with parts for anything the previous importer bought into the country only a few years ago. Denon is one brand that comes to mind. Thirdly we have the nasty practice of importers not stocking an inventory of spare parts expecting us to wait for many months for repairs to be completed. If this work is being undertaken under guarantee some customers feel they can't argue. However, if that potentiometer takes 4 months to arrive from Japan, or wherever, do they ever offer to extend the period of your guarantee for 4 months? Never. Fourth : You pay silly money for the latest digital all singing dancing component that does all manner of wonderful things in one box. The component chucks a wobbly only for you to learn there's no technician in Australia with either the skills and/ or the equipment to test and repair it so it's off to the country of origin. Who pays for the freight there and back can be a nasty shock at times too. In the end though my anger is mainly directed at the audioporn press who are too afraid to examine these issues for fear of manufacturers never again lending them equipment for review. My solution? Marry an audio technician and stick with the brands he/she services. Which takes us to another topic, the total absence of female audio technicians in this country. My tech and now friend has told me a lot of stories about the manufacturer's crappy designs, build quality and reluctance to provide schematics for their gear(even to him the authorised tech for the distributor of the product). He has seen quite a lot of gear through his bench over the years as the authorised tech for one of the larger distributors here in Sydney. Many large and popular brands are included in his list of stories and advice to not touch their products (I have mentioned them from time to time). His advice is to look under the hood and avoid anything that uses proprietary parts/components. He has showed me under the hood of a number of well known brands and very expensive tube amps. The build quality will shock even people with no electronics background. i.e. wiring schemes that make no sense or not tethered properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 On 2017-5-21 at 7:33 PM, Addicted to music said: It's all good and said if they show you what's under the hood. what about manufacturers who remove the identifications on semiconductor devices and other components to hide there origin. There's a few of these around. Then there's manufacturers that have decided to have there logo printed on the devices. God help you if these manufacturers go bust, not that they ever will with the RRP they charge. and as SMD takes over you will never know whether that's a carbon or a metal film resistor. Couldn't agree more. Hence it is better to buy from a manufacturer that doesn't use SMD or doesn't silkscreen over their component parts if they are through hole (provides schematics for their products). I think I've mentioned this several times now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karl Rand Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sir Triode said: My tech and now friend has told me a lot of stories about the manufacturer's crappy designs, build quality and reluctance to provide schematics for their gear(even to him the authorised tech for the distributor of the product). He has seen quite a lot of gear through his bench over the years as the authorised tech for one of the larger distributors here in Sydney. Many large and popular brands are included in his list of stories and advice to not touch their products (I have mentioned them from time to time). His advice is to look under the hood and avoid anything that uses proprietary parts/components. He has showed me under the hood of a number of well known brands and very expensive tube amps. The build quality will shock even people with no electronics background. i.e. wiring schemes that make no sense or not tethered properly. Sage advice. Can we throw the ball back into the audioporn press court though? Even though some of these rags publish shots of the inside of components they review they seldom if ever mention the quality of construction or reliability of particular parts. A rare exception appeared in Australian Hi-Fi Magazines' review of the Yamaha CD-3000 SACD/CD player.(July/August 2016) In the accompanying Lab report Steve Holding tells us :- "The build quality, which I normally don't comment on, but feel forced to in this case, is simply astoundingly good. I was open mouthed with admiration" Running one of these players myself I have to agree even though I'm a bit puzzled as to why Yamaha has chosen screw down connections in some parts. However, we should all be asking why he said "The build quality, which I normally don't comment on . . . . ." Why not ? Edited May 23, 2017 by Karl Rand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karl Rand Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: Duplicate post removed. Edited May 23, 2017 by Karl Rand Duplicate post removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 23, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: you don't mix in the right circles already Scratching my head at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: Sage advice. Can we throw the ball back into the audioporn press court though? Even though some of these rags publish shots of the inside of components they review they seldom if ever mention the quality of construction or reliability of particular parts. A rare exception appeared in Australian Hi-Fi Magazines' review of the Yamaha CD-3000 SACD/CD player.(July/August 2016) In the accompanying Lab report Steve Holding tells us :- "The build quality, which I normally don't comment on, but feel forced to in this case, is simply astoundingly good. I was open mouthed with admiration" Running one of these players myself I have to agree even though I'm a bit puzzled as to why Yamaha has chosen screw down connections in some parts. However, we should all be asking why he said "The build quality, which I normally don't comment on . . . . ." Why ? The reviewers are probably clueless as well - most of the well known high end hifi reviewers on my FB friends list are not technical types. As an example, one is/was a former pro photog, another is an Literary academic - they write beautiful prose and come from an Arts background. Very few have electronics engineering training apart from JA. I doubt they would be able understand what the various parts/sections are in a hifi component. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 On 2017-5-22 at 1:41 AM, Addicted to music said: Rebadging happens in every industry, it's not new, and there can be $0000.00 difference between the brands. It's to reduced cost, and manufacturing and licensing to cover for a segment of the market that you are lacking in. It's not nice when a purchaser finds out that the brand they wanted has done this and it's $000.00 more but that's just life. http://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/simaudio-moon-cp-8-processor Lexicon was also caught out rebadging an Oppo (83 I think) as one of their own and selling for three or four times the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sir Triode said: The reviewers are probably clueless as well - most of the well known high end hifi reviewers on my FB friends list are not technical types. As an example, one is/was a former pro photog, another is an Literary academic - they write beautiful prose and come from an Arts background. Very few have electronics engineering training apart from JA. I doubt they would be able understand what the various parts/sections are in a hifi component. Quite so. Two standouts are: Greg Borrowman - Australian Hi Fi Scot Markwell - Used to be with The Absolute Sound Both are well qualified to comment on the technical qualities of a product. Without a thorough technical discussion, a product review is almost worthless, IMO. I no longer bother with these bunnies that just regurgitate the manufacturer's claims. We've all seen them. Edited May 23, 2017 by Zaphod Beeblebrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, Sir Triode said: Lexicon was also caught out rebadging an Oppo (83 I think) as one of their own and selling for three or four times the price. Hah! Nothing compared to one, Australian, manufacturer, who used to buy $300.00 Sony CD players, put them in a fancy stainless steel case and sell them for $4,000.00! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: It perpetuates a negative stereotype How does it perpetuate a negative stereotype though? buy low and sell high sounds like a very good tenet to follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 23, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: you don't mix in the right circles already Scratching my head at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: Sage advice. Can we throw the ball back into the audioporn press court though? Even though some of these rags publish shots of the inside of components they review they seldom if ever mention the quality of construction or reliability of particular parts. A rare exception appeared in Australian Hi-Fi Magazines' review of the Yamaha CD-3000 SACD/CD player.(July/August 2016) In the accompanying Lab report Steve Holding tells us :- "The build quality, which I normally don't comment on, but feel forced to in this case, is simply astoundingly good. I was open mouthed with admiration" Running one of these players myself I have to agree even though I'm a bit puzzled as to why Yamaha has chosen screw down connections in some parts. However, we should all be asking why he said "The build quality, which I normally don't comment on . . . . ." Why not ? For power distribution especially for DC components there is huge advantages to use screw connectors because a screw connection will be heaps more reliable than a "typical spade connection". Quality screw connectors will have washers, this enables the connection to be secured for life as the washer will prevent loosening during exposure to vibration or heat, a "spade connection" relies on the way it's formed and will loosen away in time, spade connections will have to be physically checked periodically to ensure they are tight, common issue is usually a drop in Voltage. I can understand a reviewer not going into details on construction because they don't normally go onto the factory floor to watch the product get assembled. Spare parts will always be an issue for any industry, it's an accounting thing, no company will hold spare parts on the floor as it cost them in floor space and the outlay on some items are just not feasible or ecomonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karl Rand Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Sir Triode said: The reviewers are probably clueless as well - most of the well known high end hifi reviewers on my FB friends list are not technical types. As an example, one is/was a former pro photog, another is an Literary academic - they write beautiful prose and come from an Arts background. Very few have electronics engineering training apart from JA. I doubt they would be able understand what the various parts/sections are in a hifi component. The quote I gave was from Steve Holding the magazines lab technician, not a reviewer. As to reviewers being clueless I hope you're not casting aspersions on a 'certain literary pixie' who reviews for Stereonet . I don't particularly care if they don't have a technical background but I do care that we're never going to see their clinical hearing test results published along with reviews. The closest I ever spotted was in an English audioporn rag where a reviewer wrote of his experience before and after having customised hearing aids made for himself. However, we were never told the severity of his deficiencies and at what frequencies these required compensation at. Given his known love of ultra-expensive moving coils I'm guessing his upper treble sensitivity is appalling making these devices, too often inflicted with tilted upper treble , just what he needs. Question is, do all of us? Edited May 23, 2017 by Karl Rand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eggcup The Daft Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 And, wouldn't you hate to be the reviewer to comment on the excellent build of a product, only for your readers to complain about the part that goes up in flames a few months later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: The quote I gave was from Steve Holding the magazines lab technician, not a reviewer. As to reviewers being clueless I hope you're not casting aspersions on a 'certain literary pixie' who reviews for Stereonet . I don't particularly care if they don't have a technical background but I do care that we're never going to see their clinical hearing test results published along with reviews. The closest I ever spotted was in an English audioporn rag where a reviewer wrote of his experience before and after having customised hearing aids made for himself. However, we were never told the severity of his deficiencies and at what frequencies these required compensation at. Given his known love of ultra-expensive moving coils I'm guessing his upper treble sensitivity is appalling making these devices, too often inflicted with tilted upper treble , just what he needs. Question is, do all of us? I meant clueless to the technical aspects of components. Also many reviewers don't state how long they have been in the hobby and their biases. I would trust someone who has had years of experience in the hobby (and has listened to a wide range of equipment over the years) over one that has been hired for his ability to write perfect prose. I wish they would compare products from the past to see if there has been any advancement in the SOTA if any. It may help to justify or not justify the exorbitant costs of equipment nowadays. More often than not, these guys are looked up to because they have access to very expensive gear which is unavailable to us mere mortals. I for one would like to know from what benchmark they are measuring the equipment they review by. Anyone can start up a blog and become a reviewer and publish reviews. It is worthless to me if that person is new to the hobby (only come into it within the 8 years) and has not had the experience listening to gear manufactured in the 80s, 90s and noughties. They would not be able to tell me if the component they are reviewing bests my 25 year old component. Edited May 23, 2017 by Sir Triode 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 23, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 23, 2017 59 minutes ago, Karl Rand said: Given his known love of ultra-expensive moving coils I'm guessing his upper treble sensitivity is appalling making these devices, too often inflicted with tilted upper treble Why would someone with limited hearing in the upper treble frequencies prefer something that's tilted up? surely it would sound unnatural compared to what they hear as the "real world" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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