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3 hours ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

I've read somewhere that John Curl liked to match his amps with Paradigm speakers, which are very different from Focal. So another option is to change your amps. 

Yeah I've watched a vids with him talking about the JC1 and JC2 gear in it he uses paradigms.

If I changed my amps I'd still need speakers and unfortunately that would become a very expensive exercise....that sort of coin would also get me into really nice speaker territory! 

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3 minutes ago, Jventer said:

I have Osborn speakers - they are based on Focal drivers - so I am biased. Osborn speakers are good value for money. I know Darren69 1038 speakers well. When he finally had the right stuff feeding it he almost did not need his subs.

IMO - please consider Mike Lenehan's speakers too. He is in the Gold Coast. You should be able to pick up ML2 R or the MLT in your price range - used.

BUT

as other's have said - you have to listen to them preferably with your equipment.

Buy used- lot better value for money.

Most importantly - buy what you like and enjoy.

I used my gear with the 936's and was really impressed with the bottom end, I run a pair of 10" ascension (SB acoustics drivers) subs as well...first thing I thought is wow, I might not need my subs....

But you are right as painful as it is lugging my gear around it needs to be done

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Irek   

I love Focal, especially Aria 936.

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Jakeyb77   
Posted (edited)

I love my Focal Arias. I won't be parting with mine anytime soon. Although I am very tempted to add to mine with @Darren69 's. 

A demo pair I think just went for sale in NSW for around $8500. May have been a lesser model now I think of it.. 

Edited by Jakeyb77

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I am also a massive fan of the Aria's. I have had many speakers in the past ( Paradigm S6 Signatures, B&W CM10S2, Paradigm Studio 100's, Triangle Colours, Richter PM series etc) and the Aria's I have now have been the only floorstanders that I have enjoyed listening to in Pure Direct mode. Brilliant speakers!

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Hey guys, just a follow up on this thread, I bit the bullet 2 weeks ago and pulled the trigger on a set of Aria 936's plus an Oppo 205 plus some Kimber 8TC speaker cable....still coming to grips with the new set up as it sounds vastly different than what my ears were used to hearing, have around 100 hrs on the arias now and starting to sound better each time I listen...helps that I'm on holidays painting so can run them all day.

 

I've heard that these need at least 200 hrs to really start freeing up, does this sound about right?

 

I also think I need to find some good acoustic or laid back tunes to listen to, most of my collection is in your face and the loudness war becomes very apparent with higher quality speakers so open to suggestions here!

 

Cheers for the feedback

 

Jason

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Wimbo   
57 minutes ago, Gambit 1870 said:

I've heard that these need at least 200 hrs to really start freeing up, does this sound about right?

The Utopias generally do. 100 hours is getting pretty close to listening intently.

59 minutes ago, Gambit 1870 said:

the loudness war becomes very apparent with higher quality speakers so open to suggestions here!

 

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying they are tooo bright for the genre of music you listen to?

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Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying they are tooo bright for the genre of music you listen to?

What I've found is that when the songs get really dynamic it sounds harsh to my ears...at volume that is(but not exceedingly loud)
I'm thinking that recording quality is the culprit here?
I'm not good at describing or using vocabulary to describe what I'm hearing...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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Jakeyb77   
1 minute ago, Gambit 1870 said:

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying they are tooo bright for the genre of music you listen to?

What I've found is that when the songs get really dynamic it sounds harsh to my ears...at volume that is(but not exceedingly loud)
I'm thinking that recording quality is the culprit here?
I'm not good at describing or using vocabulary to describe what I'm hearing...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

They get better after a couple of hundred hours. Can be bright with loud rock. 

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Yeah, definately bright

Sent from my Lenovo YT-X703F using Tapatalk

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Ooogh   
1 hour ago, Gambit 1870 said:

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying they are tooo bright for the genre of music you listen to?

What I've found is that when the songs get really dynamic it sounds harsh to my ears...at volume that is(but not exceedingly loud)
I'm thinking that recording quality is the culprit here?
I'm not good at describing or using vocabulary to describe what I'm hearing...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Hello Jason,

 

i am am a great believer that the speaker, amplifier relationship defines your final sound. In my experience the harshness you are experiencing will be due to this relationship. Unfortunately I do not believe that extra hours will change what you are hearing.

 

Two options. change the interaction with the room, extra damping helps with harshness, especially first reflection points. Or an amplifier better suited to the speakers personality. A good valve amp or something like a Yamaha B2 may be just the ticket. Playing with the acoustic space is free and should be the first port of call.

 

You are in a difficult spot at the moment, move slowly and wisely. Second hand is the way to travel. On this forum some will tell you room , room , room, others speakers first. I actually believe amplifier first which is far from a popular position. However I truly think speakers and amplifiers should be viewed as a single purchase.

 

Just like people , simply because you have two nice people you don't have a great couple. Sometimes the oddest combinations make the best music. By the sound of things you may be far from the big smoke, the ability to try a few other amps from fellow enthusiasts is the cheapest and most insightful way forward.

 

I hope you become more enamoured with your new sound. If your system begins to dictate the style of music you listen to then something is not quite right, even within the context of poorer ,complex ,or compressed recordings.  In my experience when things start getting really dynamic and complex numerous systems start to fall over. Often less is more, a system that hides its flaws and highlights its strengths can be a great thing. Done correctly you don't notice what is being hidden. 

 

The problem with with this hobby is just when you think you have the final piece of the puzzle it can have unexpected results. 

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Bunno77   
Hello Jason,
 
i am am a great believer that the speaker, amplifier relationship defines your final sound. In my experience the harshness you are experiencing will be due to this relationship. Unfortunately I do not believe that extra hours will change what you are hearing.
 
Two options. change the interaction with the room, extra damping helps with harshness, especially first reflection points. Or an amplifier better suited to the speakers personality. A good valve amp or something like a Yamaha B2 may be just the ticket. Playing with the acoustic space is free and should be the first port of call.
 
You are in a difficult spot at the moment, move slowly and wisely. Second hand is the way to travel. On this forum some will tell you room , room , room, others speakers first. I actually believe amplifier first which is far from a popular position. However I truly think speakers and amplifiers should be viewed as a single purchase.
 
Just like people , simply because you have two nice people you don't have a great couple. Sometimes the oddest combinations make the best music. By the sound of things you may be far from the big smoke, the ability to try a few other amps from fellow enthusiasts is the cheapest and most insightful way forward.
 
I hope you become more enamoured with your new sound. If your system begins to dictate the style of music you listen to then something is not quite right, even within the context of poorer ,complex ,or compressed recordings.  In my experience when things start getting really dynamic and complex numerous systems start to fall over. Often less is more, a system that hides its flaws and highlights its strengths can be a great thing. Done correctly you don't notice what is being hidden. 
 
The problem with with this hobby is just when you think you have the final piece of the puzzle it can have unexpected results. 


Great advice

Sent from my JAZZ using Tapatalk

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Darren69   
Posted (edited)

Hey Jason, until you get your listening possie and speaker placement spot on to the millimetre, which takes quite a while and a lot of experimenting, you wont be able to come to a conclusion.

 

Unless you have already done this.

 

In the end, you are only really hearing what the system will do in your room so some first reflection point absorption might also help, to start with.

 

My 1038's sounded bright for a while but settled in (not sure if it was that, or I simply grew accustomed to the sound, or a bit of both) but it was a huge improvement when I set them up properly in the room, God only knows how many perfectly good speakers get sold on when all they needed was a bit of better positioning. The first reflection absorption on the ceiling has also been awesome, making the highs very detailed yet nice and creamy, non fatiguing. The speaker placement only costs you your own time and a bit of tape and maybe some timber for under the lounge if you need to bring your ears up to tweeter height. IMO this is the next bridge for you to cross Jase before you do anything else.

 

 

Edited by Darren69

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Wimbo   
Posted (edited)

I had a bit of brightness in my system. 70's rock/hard rock and Blues/jazz.

Dropped the vta of the tonearm a bit and rechecked the two point alignment.

Brightness now gone with a good extended top end.

Wasnt the speakers fault.

Edited by Wimbo

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Ooogh   
3 hours ago, Darren69 said:

Hey Jason, until you get your listening possie and speaker placement spot on to the millimetre, which takes quite a while and a lot of experimenting, you wont be able to come to a conclusion.

 

Unless you have already done this.

 

In the end, you are only really hearing what the system will do in your room so some first reflection point absorption might also help, to start with.

 

My 1038's sounded bright for a while but settled in (not sure if it was that, or I simply grew accustomed to the sound, or a bit of both) but it was a huge improvement when I set them up properly in the room, God only knows how many perfectly good speakers get sold on when all they needed was a bit of better positioning. The first reflection absorption on the ceiling has also been awesome, making the highs very detailed yet nice and creamy, non fatiguing. The speaker placement only costs you your own time and a bit of tape and maybe some timber for under the lounge if you need to bring your ears up to tweeter height. IMO this is the next bridge for you to cross Jase before you do anything else.

 

 

Spot on Darren,

 

The. Absolute best place to start is with your placement. I used to grid off the floor with masking tape, remove the spikes if on carpet and push them all over the place. It takes time and can drive you crazy but the results can be spectacular. Using the rule of fifths or thirds is a good starting point.

 

if you lack good absorption material then blankets doonas and your mates mattress make good temporary tools. Then if it still fails to float your boat then look at things that will cost money. If you have fat old copper interconnects or speaker wire around, or access, they are also worth a shot to take off the edge.

 

good luck

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broke   

Hi Jason,

 

I have had a pair of 948's now for approx 12 months. I love them and the only direct comparison (in the same room, same equipment) I can provide was from previous Monitor Audio GS60's. For me, the Focal's definitely aren't 'bright', significantly less so than the MA's. My room is treated with Bass traps, 1st reflection point panels with a heavy rug and carpet. After some experimentation, I found that approx 25 degree toe in and decent spacing from back wall was ideal- every room is different though. You don't want an acoustically 'dead' room but taming it a bit can yield really cost effective improvements. I have a big-ish room (6.4m x 4.2m) so the sense of scale the 948's bring works well for me.

FWIW- Amp Musical Fidelity A5, Pre MF A5CR, Auralic Aries Streamer and Auralic Vega DAC

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20 hours ago, Ooogh said:

Hello Jason,

 

i am am a great believer that the speaker, amplifier relationship defines your final sound. In my experience the harshness you are experiencing will be due to this relationship. Unfortunately I do not believe that extra hours will change what you are hearing.

 

Two options. change the interaction with the room, extra damping helps with harshness, especially first reflection points. Or an amplifier better suited to the speakers personality. A good valve amp or something like a Yamaha B2 may be just the ticket. Playing with the acoustic space is free and should be the first port of call.

 

You are in a difficult spot at the moment, move slowly and wisely. Second hand is the way to travel. On this forum some will tell you room , room , room, others speakers first. I actually believe amplifier first which is far from a popular position. However I truly think speakers and amplifiers should be viewed as a single purchase.

 

Just like people , simply because you have two nice people you don't have a great couple. Sometimes the oddest combinations make the best music. By the sound of things you may be far from the big smoke, the ability to try a few other amps from fellow enthusiasts is the cheapest and most insightful way forward.

 

I hope you become more enamoured with your new sound. If your system begins to dictate the style of music you listen to then something is not quite right, even within the context of poorer ,complex ,or compressed recordings.  In my experience when things start getting really dynamic and complex numerous systems start to fall over. Often less is more, a system that hides its flaws and highlights its strengths can be a great thing. Done correctly you don't notice what is being hidden. 

 

The problem with with this hobby is just when you think you have the final piece of the puzzle it can have unexpected results. 

Hey Ooogh, this is where my knowledge as limited as it already is, really lacks, I have no idea on how to treat a room, although there is probably a myriad of threads here on that topic....I will need to focus on this a bit more me thinks. I still have the Chord Carnival Speaker cable the I swapped out for the Kimber so I might put that back into service and see how it goes, although the Kimber does seem to be more revealing......again not so good with descriptions.

I'm not that far out of the big smoke only 50k's so if there are any willing members who want to educate me I'm more than happy for that.

Thanks for the insightful reply :thumb:

 

9 hours ago, Darren69 said:

Hey Jason, until you get your listening possie and speaker placement spot on to the millimetre, which takes quite a while and a lot of experimenting, you wont be able to come to a conclusion.

 

Unless you have already done this.

 

In the end, you are only really hearing what the system will do in your room so some first reflection point absorption might also help, to start with.

 

My 1038's sounded bright for a while but settled in (not sure if it was that, or I simply grew accustomed to the sound, or a bit of both) but it was a huge improvement when I set them up properly in the room, God only knows how many perfectly good speakers get sold on when all they needed was a bit of better positioning. The first reflection absorption on the ceiling has also been awesome, making the highs very detailed yet nice and creamy, non fatiguing. The speaker placement only costs you your own time and a bit of tape and maybe some timber for under the lounge if you need to bring your ears up to tweeter height. IMO this is the next bridge for you to cross Jase before you do anything else.

 

 

Hey Darren, same as my reply to Ooogh, I need to focus on this, I looked at the link you provided, did you make those panels?

I'm currently painting thruogh my house (awesome fun job) so once I finish that I'll have time to play around a bit more.

2 hours ago, broke said:

Hi Jason,

 

I have had a pair of 948's now for approx 12 months. I love them and the only direct comparison (in the same room, same equipment) I can provide was from previous Monitor Audio GS60's. For me, the Focal's definitely aren't 'bright', significantly less so than the MA's. My room is treated with Bass traps, 1st reflection point panels with a heavy rug and carpet. After some experimentation, I found that approx 25 degree toe in and decent spacing from back wall was ideal- every room is different though. You don't want an acoustically 'dead' room but taming it a bit can yield really cost effective improvements. I have a big-ish room (6.4m x 4.2m) so the sense of scale the 948's bring works well for me.

FWIW- Amp Musical Fidelity A5, Pre MF A5CR, Auralic Aries Streamer and Auralic Vega DAC

Broke, I have a very similar sized room, although I don't seem to have an issue with bass.

 

OK so I took some pics of my room for you guys to see what I'm dealing with and don't flame me for my equipment set up, it's temporary till I finish my DIY rack and I place the P5 away from the A21  when in use.:D

 

It's probably not an ideal configuration, but it's what I've got to work with.....

20170718_173712.jpg

20170718_173720.jpg

20170718_173728.jpg

20170718_173843.jpg

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Ooogh   

Hi Jason,

 

You have an excellent room, 6mtrs x4mtrs is a very nice size. Are you using the system firing down the longer (6mtr) length? It is almost always best to use the length of the room as it will result in a better bass response.

 

I would definitely be bringing the speakers further into the room . The rule of fifths in a 6mtr room would mean placing the speakers 1.2 mtrs from the back wall  and your listening seat 1.2 mtrs from the other wall. For the rule of thirds the speakers are 2mtrs from the rear wall and your seat 2mtrs from the front wall. In a 4mtr wide room I would place the outer edge of the speaker around 300 mm to 400mm from the side wall. Speakers love room to breath, you will be shocked by the change in sound bringing them out into the room. It should also increase the depth of your soundstage.

 

Do not be shy to grab every absorbent material on hand to place in the room. I would definitely cover your reflective glass table and tv. Once you have a sound you like the fine tuning of toe in and exact distance from walls begins. Experiment with your distance from rear and side walls. As you move the speakers closer together the solidity of the vocal will increase, the same with toe in. Rule of thumb is to have the tweeters pointed at your ears in the listening position. You do not want the "hole in the middle" sound.

 

good luck mate

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Darren69   
Posted (edited)

An excellent room Jason, you can get some very awesome sound out of that!

 

Buy the Get Better Sound book, ignore a lot of the tin foil hat Audiophile stuff in it but follow the speaker/listening possie adjustment info. It will take you a good six pack and a whole arvo. Only utilise the six pack AFTER you have completed the positioning, alcohol makes an old AM radio sound good. You can see in my thread how I raised my lounge and how I 'gridded' the floor and in the end, I could fine tune each speaker to 25mm increments, back, forwards, sideways and toe in/out. Do this without any subs (I reckon your mains will be swapping place with your subs eventually). You have enough room to give those Focals lots of air to breathe, giving an excellent soundstage. Make sure your ears are level with the tweeter.

 

Keep notes for future reference and after the grid has been removed.

 

Then, when it's all spot on and your subs have been incorporated back in (you'll find they wont be working as hard anymore) then it's half a carton, an arvo, a mate and a mirror.

 

Ahem.

 

Get the mate to hold the mirror (get a biggish one...mirror that is...) on the ceiling. Once you can see the speakers in the mirror from where you are sitting, there's your first reflection point on the ceiling. Do this for both sides and centre properly with accurate measuring before fitting any absorbers or it will look crap, especially if an OCD builder mate drops in. Same for walls. I didn't make mine, they came from Wavetrain but these would be less expensive (I assume) and can be ordered to match your new paint job-

 

http://www.cmfacoustics.com.au/acousticproducts.htm

 

A Google will find you countless other versions.

 

Shame there's no bands coming, I could come up one day and help you out en route to the gig. 

 

That room should already sound pretty good being all gyprock. Will be interesting top hear how you go Jase.

 

The best thing to do would be to house your gear off to the side, leaving the speakers/subs and telly in the middle, if cables allow. If not, or for other reasons, oh well.

 

Even just looking at your pics, I reckon the speakers need to swap place with the subs and come out around 500mm from the wall that's level with the curtains, just for $hits and giggles, very quick and dirty but I reckon you'll really open up the sound just doing that in the interim.

 

Edit- yes, sort of the same as what @Ooogh is suggesting. I would also add to position the speakers alone if possible, it's your system, for you to listen to your music on, it should sound how YOU want it to. That will prevent your thoughts being clouded with opinions.

Edited by Darren69

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Hey guy's, some really good advice there which I will be sure to  follow once I get the room painted up.

 

@Darren69 I had a good read of your post that you linked the other night and when I read about you not having the full range going to your speaker I laughed as I had been thinking along the same lines, the P5 allows for mains and sub woofer crossover control and I had set up to take the load off just like you....flicked the switch off on the mains and big difference there straight away, I had the crossover set up to stop everything below 80hz going to the mains and everything below 80hz to the sub.

 

I have a feeling that my first reflection point on the ceiling will be where my A/C duct is, that kind of thing is inevitable with me:emot-bang:

Also on the side it will be where my doorway is.

I also have acoustic batts in the wall for noise reduction....doesn't do a lot but works well in conjunction with the electronics to heat up the room....was an oven with the old plasma...lol

 

@Ooogh I agree with your comments on setting up the listening position as I'm the only one that really appreciates the sound.

 

Cheers Guys

 

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Darren69   
Posted (edited)

Jason, yes I still love subs but in my mind these days, they compliment the mains, they don't 'replace' them in the lower frequencies.

 

Room- same as anything in life, you can only play the hand that's dealt to you. :)

 

Edited by Darren69

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Wimbo   

I'd get rid of that glass table sitting right in front of the listening position  and then follow the guys advice.

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