Guest Eggcup The Daft Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, rob2 said: To say that, it seems to me that you've never actually heard a modern Sugden. The whole point of the newer A21s is that they sound like the old A21s! The main changes (from the 1969 Series 2, the original was more complicated to protect the early transistors) are to the preamp stage, to allow newer and higher voltage sources like CD players to work with it, and replacements for parts that have gone out of production over the years. The new casework is nice. The Stereophile figures that shocked ZB, you'll find more or less the same results from the 1970s versions (from what I remember, the A21 III measured better, and that's a mid '70s amp from before I got into this stuff). I'm sure that Sugden could modernise the sound if they wished, but then it wouldn't be the A21, would it? Anyway, if you do need different speakers for the Sugden, consider looking for Spendor BC1s in good nick. UK Sugden users would probably push you towards ProAc (I think they have discontinued the Studio floorstanders, but a used pair might turn up). I haven't heard a ProAc in years, though, so can't recommend as such myself. Edited May 12, 2017 by Eggcup The Daft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: should be no issues with this sugden apart from the price and finding space to put it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 12, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, audio_file said: apart from the price and finding space to put it! minor details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eggcup The Daft Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: should be no issues with this sugden Apart from the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) It's the sound some like, if the Sugden is truly a Single Ended design, it will appeal to the same crew that like SET tube amps, but in transistor format, there's no phase splitter tube in a SET tube amp like a push/pull tube amp, the signal goes through unmolested from input to output, those who love them say this is why they love them. If the Sugden is the same then it will look something like the Nelson Pass simplified circuit I last posted, maybe not so many output transistors though. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/uploads/monthly_2017_05/Capture.JPG.a2a84ddef5ef6222dc9033bbcd683bc8.JPG Google "single ended transistor amps" there a heap on them, mostly very old stuff. Cheers George Edited May 12, 2017 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eggcup The Daft Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, audio_file said: apart from the price and finding space to put it! OK, beaten to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metamatics Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Below is taken from the sugden audio fb page Rescuing music from technology Sugden have used this ‘Tag line’ for many years and we are often asked what it means. It might appear a little negative, as if Sugden is stuck in a 1960’s time warp and in some ways this is quite true. We still reject mass production techniques such as surface mount circuit boards or external assembly, preferring the traditional hardwired, handmade approach. Our electronic designs however are very up to date and we are always looking at using the latest high quality components. What we won’t do is implement the latest technology because it is ‘the next best thing’. We only use technology if it can improve the performance and sound of our equipment. Why change a good product ? Once you own one there is no going back .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogerthat Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: should be no issues with this sugden I didn't know Sugden made a heated towel rack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eggcup The Daft Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: minor details I forgot to mention that you'd probably need to negotiate your electricity price down quite a bit, to afford to run it. Probably runs hot as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 12, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Diynamic said: Rescuing music from technology I do like that line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 5 hours ago, audio_file said: How can it be anything else? Manufacturers make lots of claims. Some of which can be substantiated. Some cannot. I'd guess that 90% of amplifiers that are claimed to be so, by their manufacturer, are not, actually, Class A. They just happen to run warm/hot, so the manufacturer makes the claim, secure in the knowledge that almost no reviewer outside Germany will actually take them up on their claim. I've found that some German audio magazines are extremely thorough. So much so, that they will actually measure the bias current and report. Gotta love the Germans. Some of the on-line mags just regurgitate the manufacturer's propaganda. 5 hours ago, audio_file said: Sugden says it is a single ended circuit. Doesn't that mean it only has a single output device per channel, or multiple connected in parallel? Yep. That is what it means. I'd prefer to examine a sample or a schematic, before accepting the word of a manufacturer. 5 hours ago, audio_file said: Wouldn't a class A/B require pairs of output devices in a push pull configuration? Correct. 5 hours ago, audio_file said: I'm only starting to learn about these things, so just asking. All good questions. IF Sugden's statement is correct (and I have no reason to believe they would mislead on such an easily disprovable claim), then it most certainly is a Class A amp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogerthat Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 For the Sugden fans: http://www.dagogo.com/sugden-audio-a21se-integrated-amplifier-review http://www.soultosoleaudio.com/pdf/Sugden A21 Series 2 Hi Fi World Group Test Dec 2007.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogerthat Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 After reading that review, I wants meself a Sugden and a pair of these (and some slippers): http://axboeg.dk/kibri/Naima_hi-fi world.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metamatics Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Here is the first version of the a21a , built in 1999 with signature of the builder inside the chassis . Claimed to be the best and most sought after a21a , they said that haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 That video doesn't sound warm to me, sounds too trebbly for my taste. My ears might be faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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