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I have a fundamental knowledge of cartridge setup and in the past have always focused on the basics. A couple years back I purchased a 'high end' turntable with a uni-pivot tonearm and realized that the setup wasn't something I was confident doing myself. I was introduced to a chap that setup up my tonearm and cartridge for a fee. My take away from watching him do the work, was that he had thousands invested in software / tools and the fee I paid seemed small in light of his investment (and experience).  He did a great job, but I'm now at the point that I would like to do the setup / checks myself. Gain my own experience.. 

 

So what are the preferred tools to do this? I have some of the basics, but have not splashed out on everything that is required. I have a an accurate scale for tracking force and also have the Analogue productions test LP (and another one I can't remember) , the trusty bubble level and a DIY parallax protractor. 

 

What I Think I need: 

Protractor

USB Microscope for VTA

Software / Tool for Azimuth adjustment (this is the key question)

Speed check - Frequency counter

 

For those of you that do this every day, what are the most current and preferred / best value tools for turntable setup?  

 

One final question (this may require its own thread.. ), can you set up a LOMC cartridge with an oscilloscope? i have often wondered if it could be used for azimuth and speed adjustment ?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice

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1 hour ago, denimhunter said:

Geo-disc phono cartridge alignment and

https://www.arche-headshell.de/alignment-tools/smartstylus/

for Vta and azimuth

Wow....$70 for the a piece of plastic (Geodisc) and only $158 for another, smaller piece of plastic (Smartstylus):wacko:.....are you trying to turn people off TT adjustments and did you make these suggestions with a straight face? That adds up to the price of a decent second hand vintage TT!! Honestly, I struggle to wonder how can some analogue companies 'sleep at night'?:unsure:

Edited by stevoz
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On 4/24/2017 at 5:54 PM, stevoz said:

Wow....$70 for the a piece of plastic (Geodisc) and only $158 for another, smaller piece of plastic (Smartstylus):wacko:.....are you trying to turn people off TT adjustments and did you make these suggestions with a straight face? That adds up to the price of a decent second hand vintage TT!! Honestly, I struggle to wonder how can some analogue companies 'sleep at night'?:unsure:

+1

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18 minutes ago, stevoz said:

Wow....$70 for the a piece of plastic (Geodisc) and only $158 for another, smaller piece of plastic (Smartstylus):wacko:.....are you trying to turn people off TT adjustments and did you make these suggestions with a straight face? That adds up to the price of a decent second hand vintage TT!! Honestly, I struggle to wonder how can some analogue companies 'sleep at night'?:unsure:

 

Getting better sound is a rabbit hole!! If and when u are serious....

Let me know if there is easier way to check VTA!

The improvement in setting correct VTA etc can outweighs changing cables....so maybe a small investment in proper setup.  Best thing is tools can be shared among friends!!!!

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2 minutes ago, denimhunter said:

 

Getting better sound is a rabbit hole!! If and when u are serious....

Let me know if there is easier way to check VTA!

The improvement in setting correct VTA etc can outweighs changing cables....so maybe a small investment in proper setup.  Best thing is tools can be shared among friends!!!!

If and when you win Lotto.......some of us can only be as 'serious' as our budget allows us.......;)  I don't have the above mentioned 'products' and my analogue system sounds wonderful and craps on digital playback on the same system....I must be doing something right......without re-spending more than what I spent on my 2nd hand vintage TT on these overpriced 'tools'. You must respect that not all peoples reality matches your own.....:thumb:......and I'm still wondering how both these companies can sleep at night.

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13 hours ago, charlie_bird said:

I have a fundamental knowledge of cartridge setup and in the past have always focused on the basics. A couple years back I purchased a 'high end' turntable with a uni-pivot tonearm and realized that the setup wasn't something I was confident doing myself. I was introduced to a chap that setup up my tonearm and cartridge for a fee. My take away from watching him do the work, was that he had thousands invested in software / tools and the fee I paid seemed small in light of his investment (and experience).  He did a great job, but I'm now at the point that I would like to do the setup / checks myself. Gain my own experience.. 

 

So what are the preferred tools to do this? I have some of the basics, but have not splashed out on everything that is required. I have a an accurate scale for tracking force and also have the Analogue productions test LP (and another one I can't remember) , the trusty bubble level and a DIY parallax protractor. 

 

What I Think I need: 

Protractor

USB Microscope for VTA

Software / Tool for Azimuth adjustment (this is the key question)

Speed check - Frequency counter

 

For those of you that do this every day, what are the most current and preferred / best value tools for turntable setup?  

 

One final question (this may require its own thread.. ), can you set up a LOMC cartridge with an oscilloscope? i have often wondered if it could be used for azimuth and speed adjustment ?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

IMO the Geodisc is a dinosaur - great for the 80s but we're 30 years on.  Sure you can buy a very expensive 'universal' alignment protractor like the Schoen or the Feickert ... but, to me, Ken Willis's arc protractor is a much better deal at USD50.  The only downside is you need a different one for each arm you have ... so I have 2.  :)

 

After stylus position (ie. 'cart alignment'), the next thing is VTF.  So you need a digital scale - not necessarily an expensive Ortofon one.  ;)

 

Then VTA - I suggest you don't need a USB microscope for this as 'fine tuning' needs to be done by ear.  So start by getting the arm horizontal.

 

Anti-skate.  I don't believe you set this by just seeing if you have a buzz in one channel at just one position (the lead-out groove) ... as anti-skate varies across the groove annulus (less required on the inner grooves than the outer grooves).  So get yourself the HFNRR Test LP - which has 3x anti-skate tracks (outside, middle and inside).

 

Azimuth; yes, using a mirror to get the cantilever and its reflection in a straight line is a start.  But to do a better job, you need a 'Fozgometer' (USD300+) or a CRO and the associated Test LP.

 

Finally, speed - yes, a strobe disc ... I use the Pro-Ject one.  But you also need a strobe ... a LED light or a fluorescent light will do the trick.  And, of course, you need to have the capability to change the TT's speed!  :)

 

Why don't you read the late great Allen Wright's white paper on cart alignment - see here: http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/GuruSetUp.pdf

 

 

Regards,

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
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12 minutes ago, andyr said:

 very expensive 'universal' alignment protractor like the Schoen or the Feickert ... but, to me, Ken Willis's arc protractor is a much better deal at USD50

What are you talking about? The Schoen and Willis have the same price. Why is one "very expensive" and the other one "a much better deal"?

 

By the way, I have both and know which one I prefer.

 

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6 minutes ago, Misterioso said:

What are you talking about? The Schoen and Willis have the same price. Why is one "very expensive" and the other one "a much better deal"?

 

By the way, I have both and know which one I prefer.

 

 

Aah, sorry.  I assumed the Schoen was more expensive as it looked so involved.

 

I know which one I prefer ... the one I have - the arc protractor, for its simplicity in doing the job.  :)

 

Andy

 

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1 hour ago, andyr said:

Azimuth; yes, using a mirror to get the cantilever and its reflection in a straight line is a start.  But to do a better job, you need a 'Fozgometer' (USD300+) or a CRO and the associated Test LP.

 

 

This is the part that interests me the most. Can you successfully use an Oscilloscope with a LOMC Cartridge?   

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10 minutes ago, charlie_bird said:

 

This is the part that interests me the most. Can you successfully use an Oscilloscope with a LOMC Cartridge?   

 

 

If you go searching on Vinyl Asylum for articles by Barry Kearns, you should be able to find a couple of articles he wrote on setting azimuth.  You need a Test LP (forget which one, atm) and you measure the crosstalk coming from the other channel (ie. the one which isn't receiving the Test LP's signal).  Then it gets complicated! ;)

 

BTW, you also need a 24dB bandpass filter centred on 1Khz (I built one), to give you a more stable signal and you need to take the output from the phono stage - not the phono cable (ie. the cart).

 

 

Andy

 

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19 hours ago, charlie_bird said:

So what are the preferred tools to do this? I have some of the basics, but have not splashed out on everything that is required. I have a an accurate scale for tracking force and also have the Analogue productions test LP (and another one I can't remember) , the trusty bubble level and a DIY parallax protractor. 

 

 

In my experience there is no such thing as a "trusty bubble level".  The little circular ones I see used by many folks are made of plastic and I have never found one that is absolutely true.

The accurate ones are usually bigger and heavier and therefore not very useful in setting up a suspended style turntable like a Linn.

 

In fact if someone could recommend a level that is light enough and accurate enough for turntable setup - I'm all ears!

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22 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

 

In my experience there is no such thing as a "trusty bubble level".  The little circular ones I see used by many folks are made of plastic and I have never found one that is absolutely true.

The accurate ones are usually bigger and heavier and therefore not very useful in setting up a suspended style turntable like a Linn.

 

In fact if someone could recommend a level that is light enough and accurate enough for turntable setup - I'm all ears!

 

you can get an app on an iPhone that show how accurate a bubble is.  But you have to calibrate that with a decent builders level.

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28 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

 

In my experience there is no such thing as a "trusty bubble level".  The little circular ones I see used by many folks are made of plastic and I have never found one that is absolutely true.

The accurate ones are usually bigger and heavier and therefore not very useful in setting up a suspended style turntable like a Linn.

 

In fact if someone could recommend a level that is light enough and accurate enough for turntable setup - I'm all ears!

 

Avid make a lovely metal one that is accurate. I've checked it with all my quality builders levels and it is spot on.

 

Alas the price will have a few here foaming at the mouth but as the levelling of a turntable is of such critical importance it was a price I was happy to pay some years ago.

 

http://www.analogueseduction.net/avid-upgrades-parts-accessories/avid-high-precision-level-with-spindle-hole-45-rpm-adaptor.html

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7 minutes ago, Hergest said:

 

Avid make a lovely metal one that is accurate. I've checked it with all my quality builders levels and it is spot on.

 

Alas the price will have a few here foaming at the mouth but as the levelling of a turntable is of such critical importance it was a price I was happy to pay some years ago.

 

http://www.analogueseduction.net/avid-upgrades-parts-accessories/avid-high-precision-level-with-spindle-hole-45-rpm-adaptor.html

 

the Isokinetik one at 40% of the Avid looks like good value. Not that I would ever try to measure on top of an LP.      Personally I have been using the Mana level for 25 years.

 

http://www.analogueseduction.net/isokinetik-upgrades-and-parts/isokinetik-isolevel-2-turntable-level-and-45-rpm-adaptor.html

 

IsoKinetik ISOlevel 2 Turntable Level and 45 RPM adaptor

 

34054255001_607ce87dfb_c.jpg

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5 hours ago, andyr said:

 

If you go searching on Vinyl Asylum for articles by Barry Kearns, you should be able to find a couple of articles he wrote on setting azimuth.  You need a Test LP (forget which one, atm) and you measure the crosstalk coming from the other channel (ie. the one which isn't receiving the Test LP's signal).  Then it gets complicated! ;)

 

BTW, you also need a 24dB bandpass filter centred on 1Khz (I built one), to give you a more stable signal and you need to take the output from the phono stage - not the phono cable (ie. the cart).

 

 

Andy

 

 

That pretty much answers my question. 

 

Has anybody used the Feickert Adjust+ software? That seems to do the lot (not sure of the price though... )

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20 minutes ago, metal beat said:

 

the Isokinetik one at 40% of the Avid looks like good value. Not that I would ever try to measure on top of an LP.      Personally I have been using the Mana level for 25 years.

 

http://www.analogueseduction.net/isokinetik-upgrades-and-parts/isokinetik-isolevel-2-turntable-level-and-45-rpm-adaptor.html

 

 

 

34054255001_607ce87dfb_c.jpg

 

Yes, I've got one of those Mana levels, too, Shane.  :thumb:  But mine is black and says "Mana Acoustics" on the top.  (And it came in a nice black leather pouch.  :thumb: )

 

Andy

 

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@metal beat  @andyr

As these are no longer available I guess I'll have to wait for Mana from heaven!

In the mean time The Avid or Isokinetik seem to be the only opitions.

 

I don't suppose anyone has a viable technique for sanding the base of a plastic one to "calibrate" it? 

Or mounting it in some kind of flange/shell/ring with 3 screws for calibration adjustment perhaps.

Innovative ideas welcome.!

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9 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

@metal beat  @andyr

As these are no longer available I guess I'll have to wait for Mana from heaven!

In the mean time The Avid or Isokinetik seem to be the only opitions.

 

Innovative ideas welcome.!

 

You could get 2 - or 4 - of the cheap, thin plastic ones that you can find on eBay (or given away with Benz cartridges) and arrange them on the platter - each side and front & back (remove the mat).

 

Or a small carpenters level, 200mm long.

 

Andy

 

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@andyr

I have a few of those but they all suffer the same problem - none of them are accurate.

 

A builder friend of mine has a super duper level with bubble and digital displays that is calibrated.

He used it to set levels on our stone kitchen bench tops so I thought I'd take the opportunity to check the spirit levels I have using his as a reference.

Unfortunately not one of my levels was accurate and the little ones I was using for TT setup were the worst!

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