tntman

Complete newbie... help please!

53 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

I've been a digital freak until a few days ago when I went to demo some new speakers... then was given a taste of what vinyl sounds like! OMG.. I'm converted...

 

I don't want to invest too much into my setup...   so at the moment... I have a Mcintosh C220 that has phone inputs.. I understand that this runs of 2 tubes... its a descent preamp feeding into  a MC402 power.

 

So this is the path that I am going to take initially to see if vinyl is for me:

 

1.  Rega Planar 1 

2. Orotofon 2M Blue cartridge

3. Use the Phono or my preamp.

 

Dumb question, what type of cable do I use?  Are cables marketed as phono cables standard RCAs? or are they different?

 

Second dumb question,  what is MM and MC?   I've been told MM is better than MC?

 

Thirdly will this beginner setup be any good? Or can you recommend me something around that $800 mark?    Would a Rega Planar 2 stock sound better than the RP1 with blue cartridge?

 

Sorry to ask so many dumb questions, but I am a complete newbie... noob.. or nub... 

 

Cheers!

 

 

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What turntable did you hear at the shop that made you go OMG?

 

Unless you get the exact same setup it's not going to sound the same.

 

I'm a fan of direct drive turntables so you won't find me promoting or endorsing the use of a belt drive. So note my bias accordingly.

 

Personally, I recommend the Reloop RP-7000 with a AT-440 or Ortofon 2M Bronze. That should be in OMG territory, and have much better pitch stability and speed accuracy over a Rega RP1. This combination will also cost around $850-900.

 

The turntable will come with a suitable cable irrespective of what brand you buy. The only requirement for a turntable is that the cable has low capacitance and good shielding. Not all cables have low capacitance.

 

 

At this price point MM is better than MC. If you want to spend thousands on a cartridge, and phono stage then MC could be argued to be better.

 

The other option would be to buy a used turntable of which there are plenty of good ones with a good cartridge for less than $800, and if spending that much on a used turntable it's likely to be much better than the RP1 or 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Fantastic that you're dipping your toes in! At the budget end, Moving Magnet it is, and the Ortofon 2M range is reliable and well respected. Yes, the 2 is very much better than the 1, having better speed (and hence pitch) stability. That combination of table and cartridge will kick you off nicely.
Good luck!
Mick.


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I think@eltech is right, what TT did you hear at the shop? Say if that was a RP8, RP1 is no way be able to give you the OMG factor.
In saying that what is OMG? Vinyl sounds different, it is not better, it also have the tactile quality, opening the cover, putting the record on...etc If this is your OMG then RP1 will give you that in fact most tt will give you that...
You also need to check your phono has MC if you getting one.
P2 will be better than RP1 but may not be much difference, may be wait fir a secondhand P3? With a 2m bronze. Project also has similar TT and price as rega, i am not a fan but they are the options. Some vintage TTs (if you like) are good option, like Luxman, Thorens even Rega p3-24 are worth considering.
Welcome to the dark side!

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That's some pretty seriously good equipment you have there.  What are your current speakers and are you going to upgrade them?

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8 hours ago, tntman said:

Dumb question, what type of cable do I use?  Are cables marketed as phono cables standard RCAs? or are they different

 

They are RCA cable with an earth wire 

 

8 hours ago, tntman said:

Second dumb question,  what is MM and MC?   I've been told MM is better than MC?

 

MM stands for Moving Magnet 

MI stands for Moving Iron 

MC stands for Moving Coil 

 

Welcome to the dark side  

 

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2 hours ago, dwbasement said:

I think@eltech is right, what TT did you hear at the shop? Say if that was a RP8, RP1 is no way be able to give you the OMG factor.
In saying that what is OMG? Vinyl sounds different, it is not better, it also have the tactile quality, opening the cover, putting the record on...etc If this is your OMG then RP1 will give you that in fact most tt will give you that...
You also need to check your phono has MC if you getting one.
P2 will be better than RP1 but may not be much difference, may be wait fir a secondhand P3? With a 2m bronze. Project also has similar TT and price as rega, i am not a fan but they are the options. Some vintage TTs (if you like) are good option, like Luxman, Thorens even Rega p3-24 are worth considering.
Welcome to the dark side!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

 

The TT i heard was a EAT E-FLAT - I think its 6k rrp...  and it went into a Plinius phono preamp... its about a 10k setup I believe. 

 

Vinyl does sound awesome... its organic and real.. thicker... and definitely it has a certain wow factor. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, eltech said:

What turntable did you hear at the shop that made you go OMG?

 

Unless you get the exact same setup it's not going to sound the same.

 

I'm a fan of direct drive turntables so you won't find me promoting or endorsing the use of a belt drive. So note my bias accordingly.

 

Personally, I recommend the Reloop RP-7000 with a AT-440 or Ortofon 2M Bronze. That should be in OMG territory, and have much better pitch stability and speed accuracy over a Rega RP1. This combination will also cost around $850-900.

 

The turntable will come with a suitable cable irrespective of what brand you buy. The only requirement for a turntable is that the cable has low capacitance and good shielding. Not all cables have low capacitance.

 

 

At this price point MM is better than MC. If you want to spend thousands on a cartridge, and phono stage then MC could be argued to be better.

 

The other option would be to buy a used turntable of which there are plenty of good ones with a good cartridge for less than $800, and if spending that much on a used turntable it's likely to be much better than the RP1 or 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Choosing a turntable is probably the easiest bit right? But its the cartridges that can cost an arm and a leg? lol

 

Is the 2M Bronze much better than a 2M Blue? (Double the price)...

 

Thanks heaps on your info.. @eltech

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1 hour ago, seaninbrisbane said:

That's some pretty seriously good equipment you have there.  What are your current speakers and are you going to upgrade them?

 

I don't have speakers now! :)   

 

I'm very close in deciding between a 804D3 or PMC Twenty5.26 or Dynaudio C2 Platinums....  very very tough decision to make. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

How about the new Pro-ject Essential III ?    It's the II with some essential (pun intended) upgrades built in.

 

Is the Essential III a discontinued model? @aussievintage

 

I only found it at JB Hifi for $399..

 

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-home-entertainment/all-tv--home-entertainment/project/pro-ject-essential-iii-turntable-piano-black/401892/

 

What about the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon 2M ?  It comes with a 2M cartridge installed. 

 

Its entry level price is $619

 

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Just now, tntman said:

 

Is the Essential III a discontinued model? @aussievintage

 

I only found it at JB Hifi for $399..

 

 

Well, I am reading reviews that say it is the new version of the Essential II - which can now be had even cheaper $355 at Aussie Hifi, presumably because of the $399 price tag of the III.   Personally I'd rather get the III if it has the acrylic turntable platter as the reviews say.  Don't like MDF used as a platter.

 

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There's a big difference between what you heard and what you are looking at to buy.I'm not an RP1 fan unless Rega have significantly upgraded it compared to what it was a few years ago. I would definitely not buy one second hand.

I'd hang in there, save more money and get something second hand  more towards what you heard. Good buys go on here all the time.

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1 minute ago, Wimbo said:

There's a big difference between what you heard and what you are looking at to buy.I'm not an RP1 fan unless Rega have significantly upgraded it compared to what it was a few years ago. I would definitely not buy one second hand.

I'd hang in there, save more money and get something second hand  more towards what you heard. Good buys go on here all the time.

 

 

I'm not a Rega fan either, but I am wondering if the OMG factor could be simply vinyl vs digital, in which a lower entry point is still fine.  I thin the OP should wander down to a local hifi store and ask for a demo of some equipment in his target price range.  If he stills hears the OMG factor, then he will know.

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Just now, aussievintage said:

 

 

I'm not a Rega fan either, but I am wondering if the OMG factor could be simply vinyl vs digital, in which a lower entry point is still fine.  I thin the OP should wander down to a local hifi store and ask for a demo of some equipment in his target price range.  If he stills hears the OMG factor, then he will know.

Good point mate.

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  Choosing a turntable is probably the easiest bit right? But its the cartridges that can cost an arm and a leg? lol   Is the 2M Bronze much better than a 2M Blue? (Double the price)...

 

Thanks heaps on your info.. [mention=110996]eltech[/mention]

 

 

 

The 2M bronze has silver internal wires and a nude fine line stylus which traces high frequencies more accurately which provides a more accurate sound, and lower distortion than the elliptical stylus on the 2M bronze. Not saying the Blue is bad, just that the bronze is better, of course! I second and third the other suggestions that you might get the OMG factor from a cheaper turntable.

 

Having done extensive testing I've personally found that the cartridge is the dominant sound of the turntable so I suggest to get a good cartridge first time round.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Also to hear the full potential of the cart, you need a decent TT and rest od the setup. You wouldn't put a 2m black on a rp1 for example. In saying that you can always keep the cart and upgrade your tt.

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Like others here and with the quality of the rest your system, I fear you may be disappointed with the sound from a turntable at the budget end of the spectrum.  It maybe worthwhile taking your budget and looking for a good deal second hand in the classifieds section. Then if you decide vinyl isn't for you, you shouldn't lose too much on resale either. 

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The TT i heard was a EAT E-FLAT - I think its 6k rrp...  and it went into a Plinius phono preamp... its about a 10k setup I believe. 
 
Vinyl does sound awesome... its organic and real.. thicker... and definitely it has a certain wow factor. 
 
 

An entry setup should give you the organic factor, i started with a under 1k setup to now +10k rrp setup, and recently have a second setup for mono 1k+ setup, i have opportunity to hear them side by side with entty and decent cart as well, differences are obvious in terms of SQ in every way however they both give me the vinyl sound that digital will never be able to produce...

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@tntman  I suggest you don't waste your money on entry level gear. Go for something better first time. Many that get hooked on vinyl end up on the turntable/cart upgrade treadmill and waste money buying, selling and buying better. So jump in higher.

 

You should consider a TT worth at least $1K with a cartridge $500 or more to get decent sound that you will be happy with for longer.

 

Ideally you should spend as much as you can on the TT/cart so that it can extract the most goodness from those grooves as possible. Then work on the rest of your setup later.

 

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I have to agree with some of the comments that you should buy second hand to get closer to what you heard in the shop.

 

A couple of good options in the classifieds now and all for approx $1200

 

 

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Thank you so much for all your valuable information!  @Gryffles @spin33 @dwbasement @jt301 @aussievintage @Wimbo @eltech

 

So today, I went to pay for my speakers and had a demo of two price points of a TT.  $1k and 

 

First is the MusicHall MMF 2.2 - on special for $499 ..plus they installed an upgraded cartridge which brought the price up to about a 1k setup..  which made it sound organic...but unexciting...    There wasnt any real WOW factor in it.

 

We then swapped over to an Acoustic Signature Primus with a TA-500 arm. I forgot to take note of the cartridge they used.  Put on the same track and I was BLOWN away by the difference.  Voices had much air and finesse. That organic feel and realism came out. The speakers sounded totally different! Night and day difference.

 

This demo was to purely differentiate two price points.  1k vs 3k..    I now understand that I would be wasting my money if I was to purchase anything new for under 1K.

 

I feel that a Rega Planar 3 with a ORTOFON QUINTET BLUE MC cartridge would be a good starter kit?

 

Any thoughts on this setup? 

 

 

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Thank you so much for all your valuable information!  [mention=148497]Gryffles[/mention] [mention=154655]spin33[/mention] [mention=147028]dwbasement[/mention] [mention=107907]jt301[/mention] [mention=157643]aussievintage[/mention] [mention=158514]Wimbo[/mention] [mention=110996]eltech[/mention]
 
So today, I went to pay for my speakers and had a demo of two price points of a TT.  $1k and 
 
First is the MusicHall MMF 2.2 - on special for $499 ..plus they installed an upgraded cartridge which brought the price up to about a 1k setup..  which made it sound organic...but unexciting...    There wasnt any real WOW factor in it.
 
We then swapped over to an Acoustic Signature Primus with a TA-500 arm. I forgot to take note of the cartridge they used.  Put on the same track and I was BLOWN away by the difference.  Voices had much air and finesse. That organic feel and realism came out. The speakers sounded totally different! Night and day difference.
 
This demo was to purely differentiate two price points.  1k vs 3k..    I now understand that I would be wasting my money if I was to purchase anything new for under 1K.
 
I feel that a Rega Planar 3 with a ORTOFON QUINTET BLUE MC cartridge would be a good starter kit?
 
Any thoughts on this setup? 
 
 

Thats great that you found the wow again, give them a call and found out cart was it on the acoistic signature. Most likely you will have the similar wow when you use the same or similar cart or even same brand of cart.
P3 is a good starter tt for sure but why new? If money is not a factor then ok but if you could save the money, you can buy some vinyl and save it towards other stuff. I bought my first tt new and that was it, and I have been buying secondhand since apart from some cables

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There will be a lot of opinions on this question.

I'd go a better turntable and a cheaper cartridge.

A lot of people will say the opposite.

 

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