Hypothetical - Pick one upgrade and why

[Gijo1977]

For a bit of fun, and because its doing my head in.... If you had $1000 or less, and had to select a single big upgrade for an RP6/Exact combo running into an on-board MM Phono stage; would you go with:

 

A. Tonearm OR

B. Cartridge OR

C. Phono Stage

 

Which would it be? Why? or maybe which wouldn't it be? and why?

[soundfan]

I'm not hugely familiar with the RP6, it has the 303 arm fitted...right?

 

I'd be inclined to spend up to 1k on a s/h phono pre. 

 

The table and arm are good enough, the cart can be changed down the track (if you didn't like the Exact) so that leaves the phono pre. 1k will get you a very decent s/h unit if you have patience and look around.

 

[AussieMick]

Can you tell us what amplifier the on board stage is in?


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[eltech]

I don't think $1000 would buy a tonearm better than the one you've already got.

[rocky500]

I agree with soundfan and a phono stage would be my first choice. Then if I wanted to upgrade further later on then I would look at another cartridge.

[ophool]

In an attempt to narrow the field a little, assume the arm is "good enough" for the cartridge and deck ATM and that the cartridge may also be "good enough" for the present.

Look here, read and digest, then PM Keith and arrange a loan of one of those phono stages and try it with what you have but in place of the built-in stage of the NAD.

If the phono stage is doing you no favours (and you should hear if that is the case) then a better cartridge or arm will be wasted.

A good phono will repay every other upgrade to arm, table or cartridge you subsequently make.

That is the path I took some years back now though I had to chance it and pay for the phono I wanted to try before hearing it.

The arm should suffice until you spend up to around $1K on a cartridge.

So my order would probably be phono stage, cartridge, arm.  Although if you find a cheaper cartridge that you really like then perhaps stick with it and upgrade the arm, there is only 1 choice for that deck IMO and that is the Audiomods, although a Tecnoarm, OL Silver or Zephyr would all be improvements.

Too much info yet ?

 

[Telecine]

I would suggest purchasing a Groovetracer Reference sub-platter and spending the balance on a secondhand phono stage in $500 - $600 price range.

[awayward]

I added a Groovetracer Reference sub-platter to my RP6 and there was a nice improvement in bass weight and definition, and a general increase of focus.

I was also lucky to pick up a well priced used Alpheta cartridge that was near new, a big improvement over the Exact cart.

[buddyev]

You haven't said which amp you are using, but this is most likely the first change to make. its unlikely an onboard phono will be as good as a used stand-alone phono — say $500. 

 

Then in either order:

Subplatter: http://www.tangospinner.com/products.php?id_cat=15&categoria=&page=2 ( or a Groovetracer)               $200

Cart: I haven't heard an Exact but they are not very well regarded round here — you'll have $300 left to put towards a better cart. 

 

edit: just saw you already have Tango mods to TT. So phono and cart

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by buddyev

[Newman]

IMO you will mostly be hearing what the cartridge delivers; therein lies the principle. But your cartridge is very decent while your phono stage is literally nondescript. Need more info about phono, and more info about what you want your LPs to sound like.

[tesla13BMW]

D.  Record Cleaning??

 

What you have should be giving you some pretty good sounds and if you aren't cleaning your records, even brand new ones, this may be the best improvement to your vinyl enjoyment. 

[Gijo1977]

Well Guys, This has been a great read. I will try to answer some of the questions asked, forgive me if they are out of order, or you already looked at the signature block.

 

The Phono Stage is in the NAD C388 (their new Integrated DAC/Amp 150w per side)

I already have some of the 'standard' upgrades on the TT (Tangospinner, dual white belt, SRM Mat)

I am using a Spin Clean for LP care, + some spray/wipe, anti-stat brushes and gun for maintenance.

 

I really want a width, depth and warmth in the sound from my records. I know there are about a million smaller upgrades for the rega, but I think they can wait. The advice so far has me really thinking about the Phono pre options, but have also listed the items that caused me to get all in a tiz

 

So looking at specific options, including their associated accoutrement for ~$1k:

Phono options (recently advertised here): Graham Slee Reflex M, Musical Fidelity M1 Vinl, Dynavector P75 (plus an interconnect)

Cartridge options (generally available): Dynavector 10X5, Benz Micro ACE SH, Ortofon 2M Bronze/Black

Tonearm options (recent review): 'The Wand', Audiomods, or Origin Live Onyx

 

As you can see the options here are but a small number of very good options, and cause for some very good questioning of both my own preferences and the expertise available in the forum.

[buddyev]

why not get a free loaner from Slee - the local distributor is a member here - you can audition at home and directly compare them.

 

[Gijo1977]

Hey guys, I am taking the loaner leap :-)
I will report back.

[tesla13BMW]

@Gijo1977 good luck with the Graham Slee. I was using the Reflex M with the PSU1 and felt it was a very good phono stage.

 

Re record cleaning.  I was using the Knosti Disco Antistat which is very similar to the spin clean.  It certainly loosened the dirt well but with dirty albums it was obvious it didn't really clean it because the stylus would be covered in fluff and grunge by half way through the side.  The needle was doing the cleaning.  I moved to a VPI vacuum cleaner and never looked back but looking forward it will be complemented by a ultrasonic cleaner I think.

 

A lean static free record will make more difference than a phenomenal upgrade in my opinion especially if you buy up older albums.

[The Spider]

This is a great thread and very informative. I'm in the similar situation....

 

Planar 3/white belt/ tecno weight/ Elys2/wall bracket

Rega Elex-R

B&W 602s3

 

money set aside for some speakers when they appear...

 

thinking:

 

Rega Neo PSU when it becomes available (September)

Denon DL 110 when Elys2 cartridge goes to god

nice phono (would like an Aria) when when one comes up

 

and now I'll add to the list:

 

sub-platter

 

speakers & phono are 2nd hand

PSU & cart are new in 2 months

 

 

[Happy]

@spider™ ya need a better cart

[The Spider]

3 hours ago, Happy said:

@spider™ ya need a better cart

 

@Happy Than the planned Denon DL-110 or the existing Elys2.

 

If better than the Denon you think Ortofon Bronze kind of level?

Edited July 18, 2017 by spider™

[Happy]

" userid="160591"]  

[mention=123585]Happy[/mention] Than the planned Denon DL-110 or the existing Elys2.

 

If better than the Denon you think Ortofon Bronze kind of level?

 

Had the Bronze once a very capable MM indeed. But a Planar 3, I'd have thought, can easily handle $1k+ carts. If you listen to nil classical though $500-ish carts can be ok.

 

 

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[vito roccoforte]

Get a Graeme Slee phono (second hand if possible) it will blow you away and give you tingles! Any money left over put towards a groovetracer sub platter or the like. 

 

I started this journey with a brand new stock RP3-2mred. In two years I have upgraded the following, Slee era gold v with power supply, groovetracer sub platter and acrylic platter, Rega  TT psu, white belt and cart AT150mlx. 

 

I can can tell you the single biggest "WOW" factor was the phono pre (was using on board vintage Luxman prior). Highly recommend the Slee or reputable phono. The platter/sub platter was also a major sonic upgrade. I'm currently loving my setup and the journey has been interesting, expensive and loads of fun! 

 

I will also add I purchased nearly all of those upgrades from the sna classifieds. Patience pays off and when something is listed, be quick! 

 

Cheers....Shane 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by vito roccoforte

[The Spider]

@vito roccoforte thank you, agreed...TT PSU has jst been released, so I'll get that and a new cart when it comes out in September....and I just stalk the classifieds for the remainder...

 

Primare R32, Rega Aria...

 

Do these Graeme Slees come in black? all I've seen is silver and gold.....I'm blinged out!

[mikey d]

Throw a valve based phono pre in the mix with some sweet NOS valves. A used eastern Electric MiniMax will blow you away.

[AussieMick]

" userid="160591"] [mention=125940]vito roccoforte[/mention] thank you, agreed...TT PSU has jst been released, so I'll get that and a new cart when it comes out in September....and I just stalk the classifieds for the remainder...
 
Primare R32, Rega Aria...
 
Do these Graeme Slees come in black? all I've seen is silver and gold.....I'm blinged out!

The Slee Accession phono stage comes in black.


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[Gijo1977]

This thread has been a good read. I am in the process of loaning the accession now :-)
I can vouch for the improvement the Reflex M made in my system on the previous loan, I can also vouch for the improvement to be had by upgrading the cart. So I am now running a Dynavector 10x5 and looking forward to listening to a top of range Phono pre :-) not sure how it compares to the Aria......

[Gijo1977]

So, I have now had the pleasure of listening to the GS Accession Phono pre. And it's all good.

Following some warm-up time, I sat down to do some A/B comparison between the GS and the onboard MM stage. Well I really only spent 20 mins on this as the onboard stage is well, less! It is less: wide, defined, controlled, mostly it is less joy. On the flip side it is far more grey .... haha. It's not to say it's bad, in fact I do believe it would be as good as any circa $500 Phono pre, which is impressive given the $2k price of the Amp.

So I can say the accession is really nice, I can't really compare it to the Reflex M as memories fade, but I recall the same sort of improvements being noticeable when I did the same testing. So I feel like the biggest difference is the additional outputs and controls.

Having said this, I am sure an A/B between them would prove different.

The accessions controls are a bit interesting. I did some listening comparison between the RIAA setting and the other two... it makes a difference, but the difference to me was on the lessening of the top end, which made it sound more targeted to Vocals on the American setting, and added sparkle and liveliness on the British setting... but not sure how else to explain it. I settled back to RIAA as the best middle ground. I am temped to get out an old British pressing to so how it goes though

Anyway the next couple of weeks should be fun. Anyone in canberra who is thinking of trialling a Phono should get in touch with Keith at Wyndham and see if they can take it after me, save on the shipping.