How much to convert headphones to balanced?

[Lavsy]

How much would be a ballpark price to convert my headphones from unbalanced to balanced ?

Do most hi fi stores offer such a service, or is it fairly specialised?

The reason I'm looking at getting it done is that my dac has 2 outputs, 1 balanced & 1 unbalanced. I want to connect my dac to both my integrated amp via unbalanced output (which powers my speakers) & my headphone amp via balanced output (which powers my headphones).

I assume I can do this (i.e. Output from both in this fashion?)

Otherwise I need a 2nd dac & would rather not do this.....

Thankyou for your help!

Andrew.

 

 

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[sir sanders zingmore]

Dumb question, but can't you connect your DAC as you suggest but leave the headphones themselves unbalanced?

[rf1963]

some headphones can be converted to balanced with a new cable,what phones will you be using and which amp

[Lavsy]

some headphones can be converted to balanced with a new cable,what phones will you be using and which amp

The headphones are ATH1000x (Audio technica)

The headphone amp is Bryston BHA-1

 

[Lavsy]

Dumb question, but can't you connect your DAC as you suggest but leave the headphones themselves unbalanced?

On the bryston head amp there is a switch switching either balanced or unbalanced......I haven't tried but I assume if I plug my headphones in to the usual unbalanced socket I wouldn't get any sound via the balanced inputs??


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[sir sanders zingmore]

2 minutes ago, Lavsy said:

On the bryston head amp there is a switch switching either balanced or unbalanced......I haven't tried but I assume if I plug my headphones in to the usual unbalanced socket I wouldn't get any sound via the balanced inputs??


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I doubt if that's correct .

I'd be very surprised if the amp didn't allow balanced input to go to unbalanced output

 

In any event, page 2 of the manual explains how to wire balanced headphones if you need to 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Headphones (speakers and phono cartridges) are inherently balanced. Anyone charging you to convert your headphones to balanced is stealing your money. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Headphones (speakers and phono cartridges) are inherently balanced. Anyone charging you to convert your headphones to balanced is stealing your money. 

 

True the drivers are balanced, but standard headphone wiring with a common return (3 wires) inherently unbalances the headphone driver signals. To connect to a balanced source, four wires are needed as the driver (-)s are not common and do not connect to signal ground, but signal (-) for each channel, which is a mirror of signal (+) for that channel.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, johnmath said:

 

True the drivers are balanced, but standard headphone wiring with a common return (3 wires) inherently unbalances the headphone driver signals. To connect to a balanced source, four wires are needed as the driver (-)s are not common and do not connect to signal ground, but signal (-) for each channel, which is a mirror of signal (+) for that channel.

 

All of which will take less than 5 minutes. The unbalancing (which I would argue is not really unbalanced at all, since the drivers are balanced) all happens at the plug. 

[Lavsy]

 
I doubt if that's correct .
I'd be very surprised if the amp didn't allow balanced input to go to unbalanced output
 
In any event, page 2 of the manual explains how to wire balanced headphones if you need to 

Ok I'll test it......thank you!


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[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

9 hours ago, Lavsy said:

On the bryston head amp there is a switch switching either balanced or unbalanced......I haven't tried but I assume if I plug my headphones in to the usual unbalanced socket I wouldn't get any sound via the balanced inputs??


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Nope. It will work just fine. In fact, there would be no sonic difference if you converted the headphone plug to a balanced one. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

All of which will take less than 5 minutes. The unbalancing (which I would argue is not really unbalanced at all, since the drivers are balanced) all happens at the plug. 

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but once one side of the drivers is grounded, then no, the drivers are not balanced. Same for microphones and pickups.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Nope. It will work just fine. In fact, there would be no sonic difference if you converted the headphone plug to a balanced one. 

 

There are sonic differences like reduced crosstalk and cross intermodulation distortion by eliminating the common return wire. Plus the noise level of the amplifier will be effected, and could be worse or better depending on topology, plus of course there is potentially double the headroom and the amplifier's performance will differ in balanced drive potentially significantly reducing distortion (again depending on topology). Which way sounds better is somewhat indeterminate without know a lot more.

[sir sanders zingmore]

The topology is all there in the manual 

[Lavsy]

Dumb question but I don't have any xlr cables & am a bit confused what I should be getting:
? Xlr to xlr
? Xlr to trs
? Stereo or mono xlr
? Mic xlr
Bit confusing!


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[rf1963]

usually to connect a dac to an amp via xlr balanced you use a pair of xlr interconnects which have a 3 pin female plug on one end and a 3pin male plug on the other,they should be a standard fitting and budget cables are available at jb hifi,jaycar,muso shops,hifi shops

 

[rf1963]

to connect your headphones to the balanced output of your amp it looks like surgery is required to the cable as it appears to be fixed,cutting off the existing plug and soldering on an xlr plug or plugs

here is a guide on how to do it 

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Phoenix/ModifyEN.htm

[Lavsy]

usually to connect a dac to an amp via xlr balanced you use a pair of xlr interconnects which have a 3 pin female plug on one end and a 3pin male plug on the other,they should be a standard fitting and budget cables are available at jb hifi,jaycar,muso shops,hifi shops
 

Ok thank u I'll give this a go.


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[Guest]

4 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

The topology is all there in the manual 

 

Looking at the Bryston schematic, it does not have a balanced amplifier output; it has is a single ended amplifier driving one side of the headphone transducer with an inverting single ended amplifier follower driving the other side of the headphone transducer. This topology will not deliver the benefits of a true balanced amplifier design. I would be surprised if its more correctly called 'quasi-balanced' output is as good as the single ended output; in fact it would be astounding if the quasi-balanced output was technically better than the single ended output, all other things being equal. Of course all other things are not equal when the the return currents are separated from a common drain wire and the improvement that brings to cross-channel noise and intermodulation, but that can be achieved with single ended amplifiers too, by running a four wire headphone cable.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

4 hours ago, johnmath said:

 

There are sonic differences like reduced crosstalk and cross intermodulation distortion by eliminating the common return wire. Plus the noise level of the amplifier will be effected, and could be worse or better depending on topology, plus of course there is potentially double the headroom and the amplifier's performance will differ in balanced drive potentially significantly reducing distortion (again depending on topology). Which way sounds better is somewhat indeterminate without know a lot more.

 

I have NEVER seen a 'common return' wire in any decent headphones (and quite a few modestly priced ones). ALL terminate four wires at the headphone plug. At the magnitude of the currents involved, I see no benefit from balanced outputs to a pair of headphones, in exactly the same way that a balanced output has no bearing on the sound delivered by a pair of loudspeakers. 

[Lavsy]

Thank u everyone;
I connected the dac to my Bryston headamp via xlr & with the switch set to balanced & listening to headphones via single ended input....
It works! Haven't had a chance to compare that to the sound via rca but certainly not worse....
Thankyou everyone for your help!
You saved me from buying another dac!


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[magical]

Directed to Zach's phono cartridges are not balanced. Count the connections.  Earth is connected to the return. 

 

[magical]

I must admit to being wrong here. The high end senheisser HP have a concentric coil on the driver alowing it to to have +/- on the coil making them balanced, commend With a standard plug. Most all others are all single ended. 

[aussievintage]

On 4/2/2017 at 1:26 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

At the magnitude of the currents involved, I see no benefit from balanced outputs to a pair of headphones, in exactly the same way that a balanced output has no bearing on the sound delivered by a pair of loudspeakers. 

 

But some people can here a bee fart at 100 paces, so let 'em use balanced if they want