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AMR dead in the water (Boat anchor)


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How long should a hi-fi component last?

 

I know that’s a piece of string length type question, valves from an amp should certainly be expected to have a shorter useful lifespan than transistors and the stylus form your record player will need replacing for sure given a busy existence, we all know those things. What of components like amps- pre or power, CD players, DAC’s turntables etc? We all can relate tales like my Pioneer 2525 receiver, bought in the early seventies and handed down to my daughter years ago, hammered by over-driving and chucked around countless times. Still working good as ever, - OK looking rather worse for wear but will belt out a tune like it always did.

 

So you spend five grand on the latest and greatest DAC / Pre-amp with great reviews and super modern technology that will transport you to a new dimension in sound. The AMR DP777 is the wonder component in question, how long would you expect it to give reliable service. Is the 12 month guarantee is all you can expect? Maybe three years or ten. I have other amps beside the venerable Pioneer that have worked for thirty plus years. Well the AMR lasted around three and a half years before developing a serious fault, that is no sound output. It always ran hot, damn-hot and I’ve always been wary of the internal components burning-out, but we always live in hope and faith don’t we?

 

I did really like the AMR in my system so no panic man, get it repaired. After a couple of months exchanging emails with Cam, the retailer in Sydney and then Owen from the manufacturers who suggested replacing the Main board and also - was I interested in a SE upgrade. What I didn’t fancy was the time and expense of sending the unit over to Sydney, to probably be sent over to the UK and then back – hell that’d take ages. If only I’d known.

 

So I take it to the best reputed repairer in town and have faith that he can sort out the problem, hopefully not too expensively. It’s now a year this week and no progress. I don’t believe it’s the repairers fault, he’s severely hampered by the lack of cooperation from AMR I’ve sent countless emails to the Sydney distributor and AMR themselves, even emails to and from Thorsten Loesh himself who told me I should have used them directly and the tech should now contact them to be supplied with schematics after signing an NDA! (Non-Disclosure Agreement).

 

My tech has subsequently contacted them several times and AMR have delivered precisely nothing. No NDA to sign, no information and recently no contact.

 

·         So what does one do? I obviously owe the tech a fair amount of money, ($???) For the time he’s spent so far and he’s subsequently offered to dive-in and do whatever he can without the info and support of AMR but knows he may get so far and be stymied. Perhaps I should 1) cut my loses, pay the guy and use the damn thing as a sea anchor on my sons boat, or 2) send the F*&^%$g thing over to AMR in the UK and have it repaired and upgraded as Thorsten suggested. OR 3) use the vast amount that would cost to buy a Doge 8 seeing as I need a phono too and am thoroughly sick of the 777, and what's to say the posh room heater would last even another three or four years, more money down the drain..

 

I'm leaning towards 1) & 3) at the mo' but I can say the whole thing has been pretty disillusioning. Every time I listen to my system with the old Rotel pre (decades old and still working) in place of the AMR I fume at the frustration of it all and just can’t enjoy my music. Not good.

 

 

Edited by Grimmie
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My NAD T787 was $4k RRP and lasted 4 years.  I was faced with the same situation, throw good money after bad.  A quote from the authorised repairer was $1,200 to get it running again, but there may be more repairs required after that!

 

I chose option 1 and went for new gear...so frustrating, to say the very least.

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You have a statutory warranty under Australian Consumer Law that overrides any manufacturer warranty. Use that - for a piece of electronic equipment costing several thousand dollars, a "reasonable" amount of time to expect the equipment to last is at least 5 years.

Visit the ACCC website or contact them for more info relevant to your situation.

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AMR gear seems to come up for sale on the second hand market not infrequently..... temptation now removed. Sorry for your pain[mention=105765]Grimmie[/mention] but yours is a story worth sharing, thank you. I had a similar experience with a Primare DVD player several years ago. I cut my losses and moved on.

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, ~Spyne~ said:

You have a statutory warranty under Australian Consumer Law that overrides any manufacturer warranty. Use that - for a piece of electronic equipment costing several thousand dollars, a "reasonable" amount of time to expect the equipment to last is at least 5 years.

Visit the ACCC website or contact them for more info relevant to your situation.

 

I've never understood who decides what a reasonable amount of time is though?

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2 minutes ago, Marc said:

 

I've never understood who decides what a reasonable amount of time is though?

 

Same here. I don't think there is a definite $ = x time outline but there is, I'm sure, a guide that goes something along the lines of $0-500 = 12 months, $500-$1500 = 24 months, $1501-$3000 = 36 months, $3001+ = 60 months....or something to that effect.

It's the same sort of vagueness around litigation when it comes to injury resulting from giving first aid - what would a reasonable person be expected to do in a certain situation. If the first actions were "reasonable" then they can't be sued for any injury resulting from their first aid attempts (note. no one has ever been successfully sued for giving first aid in Australia).

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Re option 3, I've had two Doge 8 pre amps and am still using the second one now.   The phono pre in the Doge is okay but is trounced by my Graham Slee Reflex M.   Even with upgraded tubes the Doge phono pre is better but still not at good as the GSP.

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2 hours ago, Marc said:

 

I've never understood who decides what a reasonable amount of time is though?

 

You can go an argue that point to all point of purchase and they will basically look you in the face with the expression "tuff titties".    Then you can threatened to go to consumer affairs and and  VCAT but that will cost to lodge the forms and the time you are required to be at the hearing.   Hence it's when the extended warranties are offered I snap them up depending on the $$$$ I spend.  So there is no arguement and normally when it does go wrong within 5yrs you are covered, it's just a peace of mind that $0000s isn't going to be wasted.

regardless, I would always cave into the official suppliers recommendations, get an estimate of cost to have it repaired in the U.K. And sent back.  It's just a peace of mind as they have all the service manuals and circuit diagrams and would normally replaced the recommended spec parts to what it was designed for.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MarkT said:

Will never even consider buying AMR after hearing this , thanks for the heads up.

Bit short sighted. There's duds in any brand. They have a manufacturing tolerance, but invariably something will go wrong with at least a few units off the production line. Sucks for the OP though. Hope it gets sorted.

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Guest vagabond
9 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

 

You can go an argue that point to all point of purchase and they will basically look you in the face with the expression "tuff titties".    

 

I've never had a single problem claiming a stat warranty. Even online. Even from Harvey Norman. Although they did try to tell me that the broken band on my new fitbit was a "consumable, like printer ink" because it could actually be replaced. How we laughed!

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5 minutes ago, Juicester said:

Bit short sighted. There's duds in any brand. They have a manufacturing tolerance, but invariably something will go wrong with at least a few units off the production line. Sucks for the OP though. Hope it gets sorted.

Very True but the lack of support for a big ticket item is concerning, more so than the failure.

 

Good luck @Grimmie, just remember the retailer is who you have your contract of sale with, not the manufacturer/distributor. Too often retailers fob people off by saying the distributor has knocked back the claim/repair/replacement whatever and there is nothing more they can do.

Edited by blybo
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Whether it be HiFi, Cars, Motorbikes or any other product purchased you will find lots of people talking on forums about how good Australian consumer laws are now and quote them when ever something like this happens outside of warranty, but I have never heard of anyone who has complained to the relevant authorities getting anything replaced after the makers warranty runs out.

 

Equally so I would imagine once one has decided to give the broken item to a independant repairer after the product fails out of warranty when the manufacturer was prepared to fix it at your cost then I would think then any argument that the manufacturer has a obligation goes out the window.

 

Not a good position to be in though and it's reasonable to expect that a expensive item like this should last much longer. Good luck.

 

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO
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25 minutes ago, Juicester said:

Bit short sighted. There's duds in any brand. They have a manufacturing tolerance, but invariably something will go wrong with at least a few units off the production line. Sucks for the OP though. Hope it gets sorted.

 

Sure there's always duds in any brand but its the complete lack of co-operation from the manufacturer that is concerning , not replying to emails and not supplying a schematic even when the tech agreed to sign an NDA.

 

Been going on for a year now , terrible customer service for a high end expensive item.

Edited by MarkT
typo
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1 hour ago, Marc said:

I've never understood who decides what a reasonable amount of time is though?

 

as deemed by the ACCC. it can vary and why they dont state. eg whether buying a cheapo chingwa/aldi telly or a top of line sony costing 1000s more even with tellys it can differ I believe the thinking is as to how long expected to last.

 

they removed the 7 year clause with the consumer law update a few years ago. pity as that guaranteed support at least or a period with parts etc ... so nothing should be "dead in the water" as such after that well consider had a good run and upto maker whether can still support with parts service

 

am interested eg to see what happens with aussie made cars in coming years...as some have unique aussie parts makers and some/most are going ...gone...the old holden never dies... :D as the old saying goes...

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24 minutes ago, TerryO said:

Whether it be HiFi, Cars, Motorbikes or any other product purchased you will find lots of people talking on forums about how good Australian consumer laws are now and quote them when ever something like this happens outside of warranty, but I have never heard of anyone who has complained to the relevant authorities getting anything replaced after the makers warranty runs out.

 

Equally so I would imagine once one has decided to give the broken item to a independant repairer after the product fails out of warranty when the manufacturer was prepared to fix it at your cost then I would think then any argument that the manufacturer has a obligation goes out the window.

 

Not a good position to be in though and it's reasonable to expect that a expensive item like this should last much longer. Good luck.

 

cheers Terry

My wife currently has a out of warranty Brother printer off being repaired at Brothers suggestion and cost. This is a low end business model costing around $800 and 3 years old.

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8 hours ago, Grimmie said:

So I take it to the best reputed repairer in town and have faith that he can sort out the problem, hopefully not too expensively. It’s now a year this week and no progress. I don’t believe it’s the repairers fault, he’s severely hampered by the lack of cooperation from AMR I’ve sent countless emails to the Sydney distributor and AMR themselves, even emails to and from Thorsten Loesh himself who told me I should have used them directly and the tech should now contact them to be supplied with schematics after signing an NDA! (Non-Disclosure Agreement).

 

I think this was where perhaps went wrong.

 

AMR and local importer/retailer havent been given chance to actually resolve ?

 

its not unusual for a maker to not want to supply schematics tech info or parts to just anyone... amazing they would even consider with an nda.

 

I just wonder... possibly be enjoying item in question now if had just shipped to importer who would have item rectified at factory or otherwise. often just a board or major component swap these days.

 

 

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Sorry to hear about the problems you are having with the AMR. How long should a component last? Certainly longer than yours did and longer than my Audiodeske Vinyl Cleaner ( thread elsewhere).

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

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Agree, tough situation. Hope you can get it resolved.

 

Did your tech identify any issues with the power supply, you mentioned it was always running hot? Wondering if there was some fault that led to the failure.

 

Al's point is also important, as you chose not to have it repaired through the importer/manufacturer. Third party repairs for modern electronics can be problematic.

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Goodaye all

 

Hate to say it but its a sign of the times, most electronics or designed to last 5 years by that stage there considered redeundent.

No parts carried and no one willing to do repairs.

 

At least with old stuff it can be repaired and refurbished.

 

regards Bruce

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1 hour ago, sloper said:

Goodaye all

 

Hate to say it but its a sign of the times, most electronics or designed to last 5 years by that stage there considered redeundent.

No parts carried and no one willing to do repairs.

 

At least with old stuff it can be repaired and refurbished.

 

regards Bruce

 

It more than that, there is a tech willing to repair it,  it's the fact they won't help the tech here that's looking at it with service manual or circuit diagram. It stinks, I had the same deal go on with Cary in the US.

 

"At least with old stuff it can be repaired and refurbished". Same deal with these if they are boutique manufacturers.

 

Cheers George

Edited by georgehifi
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3 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

It more than that, there is a tech willing to repair it,  it's the fact they won't help the tech here that's looking at it with service manual or circuit diagram. It stinks, I had the same deal go on with Cary in the US.

 

"At least with old stuff it can be repaired and refurbished". Same deal with these if they are boutique manufacturers.

Cheers George

And I had the same problem with Wadia. Outside warranty would not help local tech.

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I guess now we know that the local AMR dealer has not set up an arrangement with a local tech to do repairs. It is either AMR company policy that repairs have to be made in the factory, or the dealer has simply failed to find a local tech guy. Either way, your experience should discourage people from buying AMR. 

 

Note to dealers: shipping equipment back to the factory for repairs is slow and expensive. It is even slower and even more expensive if the "repair" does not fix the fault. It would be best if you established a local repair center for warranty repairs. 

 

I have had a number of repairs done to my equipment over the years: 

- Pioneer A-400 (faulty capacitor) - local Pioneer recommended repair shop. 

- Cary SLP-05 preamp (pilot light kept blowing) - repaired by Audiophile's in-house repair shop

- Cary CAD-211AE power amp - repaired by Lucas of Black Art Audio. The factory were very helpful in providing schematics.

- Playback Designs MPS-5 (died after firmware update / faulty gear) - fixed by Warwick Freemantle of PMG. 

- JL Audio F110 subwoofer (dead plate amp) - repaired by JLS Electronics, JL Audio's recommended repair center. 

- Acapella High Violon tweeter (replace electrode and dead amp section) - repaired by local technician after schematics were provided by the factory. 

- Merging NADAC (fabricate custom DC-DC power cable) - performed by ATT Audio Controls service center in Sydney. 

 

In my own experience, local repair center is the norm, not the exception. But then maybe I have been lucky. 

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Unfortunately this is not the first time I've heard of AMR product failures/inability of Agents /Techs/etc to correct same in a reasonable timeframe --if indeed at all!

 

I have  good friend In NZ that had the same runaround --both from the local (there) Importer and factory- a dead in water unit for months with no solution.

 

Also my Audio friend in the US who was an AMR reseller told me the Faulty units almost sent him broke!--he no longer sells the brand.

 

Sad indeed as Thorsten is well regarded Tech in the industry.

 

I hope the Poster here can find some fulfilment to the problem 

 

Good Luck

 

Willco

 

 

Edited by Willco
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Grimmie, no wonder you've been lying low on SNA this past year or two. I feel for you and chin up mate :) its only audio and life goes on.

 

I would suggest that you say to AMR that you intend to raise this matter on DIYAudio.com - if their help is not forthcoming. That'll get their attention, the site has a 150,000+ user base and Thorsten Loesch is seen as a guru type with a good reputation and he would not want that called into question??

 

In this day and age with internet communication, no manufacturer can afford not to give full and proper backup on an expensive product. A thread like this is perpetually recorded on the worldwide web and can do a lot of harm to future sales. It's in their interest (I'd say imperative) to look after you.

 

To think, you agonised for over 2yrs in deciding to purchase the AMR-777 dac, and now this bad outcome ...

 

 

Steve.

 

 

Edited by Steve M
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