stevoz Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ian McP said: hey Steve n Andy, for what it's worth..... http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/vincent-audio-pho-8-phonostage-tas-211/ scroll down this page for internal pics, dunno what op amps they're using, probably two or three per channel (hey Steve, lift the lid on yours and tell us) regards Ian Here is an internal shot of the pho8 phono stage (couldn't find the pic's you were referring to, Ian): Saves me from taking mine apart! Not sure what op amps they're using and my research has lead to nothing to answer this query, including from the owners manual, but johnmath, the poster who put up this pic on my 'first impressions' thread, mentions OPA37 and OPA134 chips, if that helps. Cheers... Edited February 21, 2017 by stevoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) pics for both of the 8s internals are in the stereophile link if you scroll down Steve. Edited February 21, 2017 by Grumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, Grumpy said: pics for both of the 8s internals are in the stereophile link if you scroll down Steve. Thanks Grumpy, I see it now. This one: Better pic too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 There is a pic of the power unit also in the link @stevoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McP Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 there are minor differences in the two pics, let's assume they're using the OPA chips, in the second pic the two below the blue thingie, RY12W-K that's a relay to avoid switch on/off thump, have immediately below them three brown caps and a yellow, most likely silver mica caps for the RIAA EQ. Above pic the brighter one has one brown cap the rest are all red caps, the chunkier ones are most probably WIMA MKP (polypropylene) regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAVI Systems Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Phono stages needs to be tested with your current gear to ensure it's the right choice and makes a difference. All shops that sells phono stages won't let you bring home to trial at all unless you know them very well. So how do members select the right stage? I can't and won't buy blind. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Most proper Hi-Fi dealers will let you pay for the one you want to demo if they have one in the showroom, try it for a weekend or a week, and then let them know.The other way is to offer any hi-fi friends a crton of beer for a borrow of theirs...I tried several stages around $1000 - Moon 110lp, Primare R32 and Parasound Z Phono... I also have an ex top of the range Sony Amplifier (tafa777es) with a decent phono stage and a Sansui 881... The Sony was hard to beat, but beaten it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAVI Systems Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 As for my above post, I meant that all 3 external phono stages bettered the two internals in the integrated. I personally found any phono stages less than that were beaten by what the integrated already had internally. YMMV [emoji3] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 20/02/2017 at 4:00 PM, andyr said: Shirley the issue is ... would you be happy to pay the dealer full price for a PHO8 if he had lent out to people for audition (so it wasn't "new")? Thats why some dealers have demo equipment, and after a year or so of being demonstrated it gets sold cheap to someone who is happy to buy a cheap one. Which is similar to floor stock loudspeakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 16 hours ago, Simon Pressman said: The Sony was hard to beat, but beaten it was. What is the input capacitance loading of the Sony, and of the preamp that "beat" it. If you are using a MM cartridge the preamp with the best loading for the cartridge is likely to sound best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 hours ago, eltech said: Thats why some dealers have demo equipment, and after a year or so of being demonstrated it gets sold cheap to someone who is happy to buy a cheap one. Which is similar to floor stock loudspeakers. So how does the dealer make a profit from that scenario? 6 hours ago, eltech said: What is the input capacitance loading of the Sony, and of the preamp that "beat" it. If you are using a MM cartridge the preamp with the best cap loading for the cartridge is likely to sound best. Absolutely spot on, eltech! But so many people have no idea about correct cart loading. (BTW, I inserted "cap" in your post ). Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 15 hours ago, andyr said: So how does the dealer make a profit from that scenario? Being a helpful business which provides products for home evaluation can result in a great deal of trust between the business and customers, and may in fact lead to a customer purchasing a more expensive unit than they had originally anticipated. When it comes to ex-demo equipment, said item which has been loaned up to 10 times to careful people should be in as new condition, and could be offered with full warranty at a small discount (say 5-10%) The shop still makes profit. Not every customer will want a home demo, but for those who do, its good customer service, and of course people will recommend said helpful business to their friends which generates more business in a competitive market. It is far more common than what you think. Where I work has demo equipment, and we sell $10,000 to $500,000+ equipment, and when spending that sort of money the customer definitely wants to hear it and check it out before buying. The other business model that comes to mind is the "box mover". They sell things as cheap as possible, but have no demos. The attitude is basically "its cheap, buy it and piss off" There is not too much advice or customer service there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 15 hours ago, andyr said: BTW, I inserted "cap" in your post ). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm gonna buy one of those Vincents. (Amp is a Marantz PM4). Cant believe the price and I firmly believe that an outboard Phono preamp (with an external PS) is gonna sound better the a phono stage in an amplifier. Noise floor for a start. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 5 hours ago, eltech said: Being a helpful business which provides products for home evaluation can result in a great deal of trust between the business and customers, and may in fact lead to a customer purchasing a more expensive unit than they had originally anticipated. When it comes to ex-demo equipment, said item which has been loaned up to 10 times to careful people should be in as new condition, and could be offered with full warranty at a small discount (say 5-10%) The shop still makes profit. Not every customer will want a home demo, but for those who do, its good customer service, and of course people will recommend said helpful business to their friends which generates more business in a competitive market. It is far more common than what you think. Where I work has demo equipment, and we sell $10,000 to $500,000+ equipment, and when spending that sort of money the customer definitely wants to hear it and check it out before buying. The other business model that comes to mind is the "box mover". They sell things as cheap as possible, but have no demos. The attitude is basically "its cheap, buy it and piss off" There is not too much advice or customer service there. If your 2 channel gear sells for between $10,000 to $500,000, You should be doing in home demo's. Makes sense.Good work and good to see HiFi in Oz going that way. I know Joe's been doing it for a long time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caminperth Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 On 26/02/2017 at 6:28 PM, Simon Pressman said: Most proper Hi-Fi dealers will let you pay for the one you want to demo if they have one in the showroom, try it for a weekend or a week, and then let them know. The other way is to offer any hi-fi friends a crton of beer for a borrow of theirs... I tried several stages around $1000 - Moon 110lp, Primare R32 and Parasound Z Phono... I also have an ex top of the range Sony Amplifier (tafa777es) with a decent phono stage and a Sansui 881... The Sony was hard to beat, but beaten it was. So which one won the phono battle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, caminperth said: So which one won the phono battle? I'm saying the Parasound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSchnitzer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Wimbo said: and I firmly believe that an outboard Phono preamp (with an external PS) is gonna sound better the a phono stage in an amplifier. Noise floor for a start. That backs up my experience; I went from using my amplifier's phono stage (for MC) to a decent external phono stage, and the difference was very large. To be fair, at least part of that improvement is because my new phono stage allows some adjustments (loading etc), but my integrated amplifier assumes that "one size fits all". Regardless, things now sound much better, which makes me happy. Until the next upgade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 to be fair some phono stages are pretty good. eg two musical fidelity pre amps have owned in the musical fidelity a5 pre and m8pre the phone inside is actually very decent I wouldnt personally bother with an outboard phono stage in say the $500 mark. with these. there also pre amps like the sp16 arc pre amp...where people actually buy them because of how good the phono stage is that comes built in. so do want to say there are exceptions...however yes I run an outboard phono stage still.... can certainly improve on built in phono stages ... what they build in can be limited...and there are no doubt many built ins that arent much but basic. but then there are probably many outboard ones too that might be built to a price etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAVI Systems Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 What is the input capacitance loading of the Sony, and of the preamp that "beat" it. If you are using a MM cartridge the preamp with the best loading for the cartridge is likely to sound best. I actually don't know the capacitance loading as it is not listed, but I have an Ortofon, Shure, Nagaoka and Technics (I borrowed a friends Rega Mm cart too) and on all of them the results were better with particularly the Primare and also the Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAVI Systems Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 So which one won the phono battle? I ended up buying the Primare [emoji3] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAVI Systems Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm saying the Parasound. It was the Z Phono I tried as I cannot afford the Halo, I am sure if I heard the Jc Halo it would have kicked ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Elliott Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, al said: to be fair some phono stages are pretty good. eg two musical fidelity pre amps have owned in the musical fidelity a5 pre and m8pre the phone inside is actually very decent I wouldnt personally bother with an outboard phono stage in say the $500 mark. with these. there also pre amps like the sp16 arc pre amp...where people actually buy them because of how good the phono stage is that comes built in. so do want to say there are exceptions...however yes I run an outboard phono stage still.... can certainly improve on built in phono stages ... what they build in can be limited...and there are no doubt many built ins that arent much but basic. but then there are probably many outboard ones too that might be built to a price etc.... IME most of the ARC sp series were a Phono stage 1st with a line stage 2nd as opposed to some that put a Phono stage in secondary. Mod/upgrade the SP's and use the phono out of the tape monitor purely as a phono stage and they sound pretty good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 22 hours ago, Wimbo said: I'm gonna buy one of those Vincents. (Amp is a Marantz PM4). Cant believe the price and I firmly believe that an outboard Phono preamp (with an external PS) is gonna sound better the a phono stage in an amplifier. Noise floor for a start. Ordered. I should have it middle of next week. Will have a listen and let you know. Payed $340 for it. Good money spent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, Wimbo said: Ordered. I should have it middle of next week. Will have a listen and let you know. Payed $340 for it. Good money spent. You will love it . There's not many (or none) better at that price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) wrong post Edited March 1, 2017 by mloutfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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