bhobba

ML5

96 posts in this topic

Hl AI

 

Mike and Rawl99 are working on an update to the ML3 dubbed the ML5.

 

It has extra work done on resonance reduction (so much so it now measures less resonance than any speaker he has made except maybe, just maybe, my magnesium limited) and a new tweeter, what many think is the best on the planet - the Seas Exotic:

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid=101

 

It can be crossed over a lot lower so the woofer sounds less stressed and cleaner.  It also is trickle-down to the MLT3 where a tweeter with a lower crossover is now used.

 

I have heard it and it sounds simply beautiful - that's the only word to describe it - that tweeter is simply amazing.  Yes IMHO its above the magnesium limited and there will be a formal comparison - watch out for that.  I have put my money where my mouth is and ordered a pair - that's how good I think they are.

 

Rawl is going to do more work on things like coils and capacitors (Mike will be using Janzen, I will like to try Jupiter Copper bypassed by Duelund silver bypass, Rawl likes VSF copper and wants to see what the bypass do - the real test will be the capacitor shootout. We may have two - one with the magnesium and one with the ML5.  We can't use the ML5 for both because you need 4 capacitors which limits what can be used.  Of course Mike will build to order with any capacitors so come along to the shootout to see what you like.

 

I think prices start at about $20k with the Janzen but varies with your capacitor options etc as well as what Craig will find out with coils, speaker wire and other capacitors etc.

 

Most definitely this is a must hear speaker.  I bloke turned up with a pair of up-market Martin Logans - he bought the ML5.

 

Right now they will be sold as ML3's and you will have to speak to mike about price.

 

Al in all an amazing speaker - great for media centre duties which is my new big thing - I have moved on from computer audio.

 

Mike likes the idea to as a system along those lines may be coming soon..  But please do yourself a favour now and go down and listen to these - well - marvels.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Edited by bhobba
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Why not ML4? :)

 

Very interesting anyway - definitely want to hear these myself. It makes sense to use SEAS exotic for both drivers (I think Mike's regular use of Peerless HDS top and bottom is naturally synergistic too), but I've never understood the logic of combining metal cones with fabric domes - surely metal all the way would be better, especially as it is theoretically less troublesome in a tweeter application than in a woofer one (the breakup is supersonic rather than smack in the upper midrange).

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11 hours ago, bhobba said:

Fine tweeter it certainly is - but have you seen the price:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-soft-dome-tweeters/seas-exotic-t35-x3-06-tweeter-with-alnico-magnet/

 

Mike has to keep his other speakers to rational price levels - but of course he is always working on new speakers.

 

Thanks

Bill 

No speaker driver is expensive compared with Duelunds (especially CAST), so I can't see any reason for him not to splurge here too if he thinks it's worth it (which seems to be the key issue for him). Also, I guess settling on the Peerless makes it much easier to design new speakers, as he knows them so well.

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On 06/10/2016 at 11:15 PM, bhobba said:

  I have put my money where my mouth is and ordered a pair - that's how good I think they are.

 

 

Bill, your enthusiasm is as always infectious. 

 

But seriously, Mike could poke two wires into a mouldy spud, call it a speaker and you'd buy it!! :)  

 

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3 hours ago, zipstartcanoe said:

But seriously, Mike could poke two wires into a mouldy spud, call it a speaker and you'd buy it!! :)  

   
Funny you mention that.  For the capacitor comparison Mike has been burning in some of the capacitors.  In this case it was 4 10uf Jupiter Copper and  1uf as well.  He pulled them out, stuck them into the spud (I mean ML5's) not expecting much because they only had 50 hours on it.  Holey carp Batman.   Mine and Mike's Jaws dropped - beautiful, fluid, dynamic, seamless the adjectives flowed - this was music present naturally and realistically.  Amazing stuff.  We called Mikes brother Russell over and he was equally awe struck by the spud.  We tried all sorts of stuff - Brothers in Arms, Girl in the Other Room, Lenoard Cohen (not my fvorite)  - all the same - beautiful.

 

Rang Rawl99 last night and will have a listen about 10am tomorrow.

 

More to follow. 

 

Thanks

Bill

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5 hours ago, ljmac said:

No speaker driver is expensive compared with Duelunds (especially CAST)

 

Well personally, and this is just my opinion for what its worth, I think Mike should switch to this tweeter for all his speakers - except for the diamond tweeter at over $6k a matched pair its Seas's new top of the line tweeter.  But just like all speakers don't use Duelunds or similar not all speakers will use the new tweeter..

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited by bhobba

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So is the woofer still the peerless 8" ? I'd like to see all seas drivers in this one. Any pics?

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Fine tweeter it certainly is - but have you seen the price:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-soft-dome-tweeters/seas-exotic-t35-x3-06-tweeter-with-alnico-magnet/
 
Mike has to keep his other speakers to rational price levels - but of course he is always working on new speakers.
 
Thanks
Bill 

If the speaker costs ~20k/pr then this cost is reasonable, in fact perhaps using the SEAS berillium tweeters is also reasonable.


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11 hours ago, zipstartcanoe said:

 

Bill, your enthusiasm is as always infectious. 

 

But seriously, Mike could poke two wires into a mouldy spud, call it a speaker and you'd buy it!! :)  

 

But not without a demo first!

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11 hours ago, zipstartcanoe said:

 

Bill, your enthusiasm is as always infectious. 

 

But seriously, Mike could poke two wires into a mouldy spud, call it a speaker and you'd buy it!! :)  

 

Hi Zip           would you be prepared to recant this post if this loudspeaker is confirmed to be absolutely state of the art ?   we only require a one word answer Zip         Regards Mike Lenehan

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Hi All        I'll post some details this weekend hopefully re this new speaker ! I'm just flat bicky at the moment            Regards Mike Lenehan

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1 hour ago, frankn said:


If the speaker costs ~20k/pr then this cost is reasonable, in fact perhaps using the SEAS berillium tweeters is also reasonable.


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Yes - on paper beryllium should be an ideal tweeter diaphragm material, but it's interesting how the humble textile dome has remained so widely used all these years, especially at the very high end. I also find it interesting that speaker drivers tend to sound like what they're made of, even if the breakup is out of the range of human hearing. Perhaps there's some kind of intermodulation effect that feeds back into audible frequencies. I can say however that the humble Peerless HDS drivers sound exceptionally natural and uncoloured to me, even if they may not be the ultimate in speed or resolution - they sound great with everything you throw at them.

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I cant wait for the Capacitor GTG and to hear the speakers.

I am in "Infidel" as I have different speakers, and have not bought any of Mike's speakers (yet). It is not because I don't want to, I just don't have the money.

Anyway, It is great to see Mikie and the guys like Bhobba and Rawl continuing to push the envelope to get better.

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14 hours ago, zipstartcanoe said:

 

Bill, your enthusiasm is as always infectious. 

 

But seriously, Mike could poke two wires into a mouldy spud, call it a speaker and you'd buy it!! :)  

 

Zip,

Given that I am the idiot who forked out the cash to purchase these (rather cheap) tweeters after a lot of research (and conversations with Mike), i find your comment to be a bit sad.

I have been driving this as Mike has a great deal on his plate lately and the squeaky wheel philosophy rules modern life I have found.  So Mike has had some squeaking outof me.

I told Bill about this project and he has been privy to the (significant) development cycle of the 'Spud' (aka ML5).

It has been a very interesting and rewarding process.

As per the original comments in another thread I was looking for a speaker that will provide a mix of the old and new world sound...... which for me means a speaker that is resolving, natural and sounds like music.

My experience with full-range drivers suggested that Alnico magnets consistently provide that sonic character so that was a prime parameter as part of the tweeter selection process.

The end result is exceptionally good.  I currently have the ML3 References and these Spuds are delivering at a level significantly above the ML3 in respect of Bass drive and articulation, clarity and naturalness without the modern trend toward an etched top-end, which a lot of folks I hang with find to be brittle and uninvolving.  I am certainly of this viewpoint which was the driving motivation behind this speaker.

I spent 2 days at the Hong Kong Hi-End show late last year and was thoroughly underwhelmed with the state of modern hi-end audio.

By a country mile I will take these speakers (which are still in last stages of development) over anything I heard over in HK.

 

And just for correctness there are actually 4 wires sticking out of this Spud.

Guess that must be why they sound a lot better than the traditional Potato.

 

Wiki

"In Internet slang, a troll (/?tro?l/, /?tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community "

 

Give this definition a little thought if you would be so kind.

 

Bill LOVES these speakers....as he B...y well ought to.  They are Terriffic.

Cheers

Rawl

 

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2 hours ago, rawl99 said:

 

As per the original comments in another thread I was looking for a speaker that will provide a mix of the old and new world sound...... which for me means a speaker that is resolving, natural and sounds like music.

 

Cheers

Rawl

 

That's what we are all searching for.

Hopefully will get to hear these soon.

 

Cheers.

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I've personally used Alnico magnet assemblies in the my own speakers for 6 years now and they do sound very different from conventional magnet assemblies using the same cabinets and cone materials. The characteristics bill ascribes to the sound are typical of Alnico being used.

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I see these tweeters are 35mm - would that make then too big for Mike to apply his PRC at high frequencies? I'm still amazed at the dispersion he gets from a 25mm tweet!

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Hi All

           Ok where do we start here ! Rawl and Bill have been pushing this project from the start and as it turns out I am grateful for their persistence.

 

Until this loudspeaker Celts88's ML3's with the new 30mm dome tweeter may have been the best speaker I have built ! Why WHY > well the ML3 was always an excellent thing and the Morel Supreme tweeter was a decent match .

 

The premise with using the Morel is that it has a linear peak to peak electrical excursion of 2mm ! That's huge , BUT in the end it still was not able to run under 2 kHz . Having said that the power response and linearity of the speaker made it a very musical device . 

 

For reproducing the input signal accurately it could not compete with the ML2 ,having said this it was a little less critical and also a very smooth loudspeaker 

 

Ok I'm getting a bit into it here so I'll fast forward to the new speaker !! Celts88 's ML3's use the 30mm Wavecore tweeter ! An excellent thing which allowed the Xover to be down to 1750 hz. Bang > bass speed ,extension,midrange reality and a superb top end. 

 

Moving on on to the even larger 35mm Seas Exotic tweeter allows a slightly lower 1700hz Xover .   Ok Lads it's time for Ya all to be takin this with Ze grain of the salt !!!  This is the best loudspeaker I have ever heard PERIOD ! Whew OK it's all good I'll be fine . This is the best bass the best mids and the best top I have heard . It also has the best 3D sound staging and simply totally disappears in the soundstage. 

im all written out now so I'll come back again soon ! Yes there will be a GTG all right ! YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHa.            Best Regards Mike Lenehan

.                                  

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Well well well, now this is really getting interesting. I've always been a small speaker guy myself - big speakers have never really done it for me. But if these things are as non-resonant as claimed, then they just might (they must be insanely heavy though!).

 

How about directivity at high frequencies though? Wouldn't such a large tweeter be too directional for PRC?

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Mike says my ML3's were the best at the time :party :love  :party

 

Mike says my ML3's are now obsolete :wacko: :emot-bang: 

 

As Father Ted would say - DRINK!!!!! :hiccup:hiccup:hiccup 

 

Feeling better again :party:love :party

 

:sarc:

 

Edited by Celts88
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I'll wait for the twin woofer, 5 way actives


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8 hours ago, rawl99 said:

Zip,

Given that I am the idiot who forked out the cash to purchase these (rather cheap) tweeters after a lot of research (and conversations with Mike), i find your comment to be a bit sad.

I have been driving this as Mike has a great deal on his plate lately and the squeaky wheel philosophy rules modern life I have found.  So Mike has had some squeaking outof me.

I told Bill about this project and he has been privy to the (significant) development cycle of the 'Spud' (aka ML5).

It has been a very interesting and rewarding process.

As per the original comments in another thread I was looking for a speaker that will provide a mix of the old and new world sound...... which for me means a speaker that is resolving, natural and sounds like music.

My experience with full-range drivers suggested that Alnico magnets consistently provide that sonic character so that was a prime parameter as part of the tweeter selection process.

The end result is exceptionally good.  I currently have the ML3 References and these Spuds are delivering at a level significantly above the ML3 in respect of Bass drive and articulation, clarity and naturalness without the modern trend toward an etched top-end, which a lot of folks I hang with find to be brittle and uninvolving.  I am certainly of this viewpoint which was the driving motivation behind this speaker.

I spent 2 days at the Hong Kong Hi-End show late last year and was thoroughly underwhelmed with the state of modern hi-end audio.

By a country mile I will take these speakers (which are still in last stages of development) over anything I heard over in HK.

 

And just for correctness there are actually 4 wires sticking out of this Spud.

Guess that must be why they sound a lot better than the traditional Potato.

 

Wiki

"In Internet slang, a troll (/?tro?l/, /?tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community "

 

Give this definition a little thought if you would be so kind.

 

Bill LOVES these speakers....as he B...y well ought to.  They are Terriffic.

Cheers

Rawl

 

 

When you get a chance to climb down off your high horse, you might notice I was commenting on Bill's obsession with effusive responses to any Lenehan product - not the virtues, qualities or lack there of in the subject speakers.

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11 hours ago, Lenehan Audio said:

Hi Zip           would you be prepared to recant this post if this loudspeaker is confirmed to be absolutely state of the art ?   we only require a one word answer Zip         Regards Mike Lenehan

 

No

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