Primare Knob Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Hi, I am planning for an HT room and would like to go Atmos/DTS-X. It is more the restricted Atmos setup with the ceiling speakers that is making my life difficult. I have an exposed ceiling with the roof studs starting at 220cm and the ceiling at 250cm. In the picture, the black cubes are the 7 channel setup, (I know, no center or sub in the picture), the orange cube are Atmos 35 degree angle from LS, and the green are Atmos 45 degree angle from LS speakers. The six grey cubes are "chairs" and the blue box in the back of the room is a pantry that I cannot move, I might build a cabinet in the other corner in the back to mirror it. I was thinking for the LS and RS to go with bi-pole speakers, to suit the back row. For the LSB and RSB I will probably go with mono pole speakers due to the pantry (and possible cabinet) For the ceiling speakers I was thinking to go with box speakers angled toward the LS. These speakers within the Atmos preferred dimension will sit smack bang against the exposed roof stud. I could build a lowered floating ceiling to mount the speakers in, but they exposed roof studs will still be in the way since I don't want to lower my ceiling to 220cm height. Going Atmos 7.2.2 will have the same problem that the ceiling speaker will be sitting smack bang against the next exposed roof stud. What would be the best option if not DTS-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 to be perfectly honest I dont understand the problem. perhaps I am not looking at it from the right dimension. however it would seem pretty much ideal your approach that I can see, in the height dimensions I would simply place the height speakers mounted off the roof studs. at the very bottom so flush with their bottom edge rather than buried up in the top of the ceiling space. I think you should end up with a pretty sweet sounding setup. and I dont think the exposed roof is a real bother.... most speakers can be angled appropriately these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primare Knob Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, al said: to be perfectly honest I dont understand the problem. perhaps I am not looking at it from the right dimension. however it would seem pretty much ideal your approach that I can see, in the height dimensions I would simply place the height speakers mounted off the roof studs. at the very bottom so flush with their bottom edge rather than buried up in the top of the ceiling space. I think you should end up with a pretty sweet sounding setup. and I dont think the exposed roof is a real bother.... most speakers can be angled appropriately these days You are talking about ceiling speakers with an enclosure and not a boxed (bookshelf) speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Just now, Primare Knob said: You are talking about ceiling speakers with an enclosure and not a boxed (bookshelf) speaker? either... a boxed ceiling speaker or a boxed (bookshelf speaker) I see as the same thing the only difference the ceiling speakers isyou can get so can align the drivers. however with a boxed bookshelf you might want to mount them so the cabinets them selves are aligned... which may or not be a difficulty in my rig am using ceiling speakers pointing straight down with just the tweeters agled and it seems to work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 From what I understand, your ceiling is too low for ceiling mounts. I am told you need 3500++ to achieve a decent result.....as crude as it sounds, apparently you get better results from using the atmos upfiring modules in lower ceiling environments......apparently.....this is the word from a few US based pro designers on the topic. ....something to look into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Dissagree 1000% too low. I don't think 3500+ required. in ceiling heights are working excellently in a 2.7m ceiling. upward firing I would not recommend to anyone unless have no facility to go on or in ceiling. the important thing is to create plain of difference as long as inceilings above and say 1m or so distinction eg between wall - ear level / side-rear surrounds and ceiling mounted I would suggest you will be fine ive now over last year or so had opportunity to experience quite a few setups 2.4 to 2.7m typical ceilings and all work pretty well with in ceiling speakers I've found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Then disagree with Dennis Erskine Al.......he's tested this till the cows come home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Don't care, I'm living it every day .. don't need no testing to prove to me ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Just sayin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Right, found the email. Less than 10ft and multiple rows they prefer the upfiring. Even above that, depending on the seat spread, still prefers upfiring. ......I know, I know, it sounds completely crude, but there you have it.....I've learnt not to argue with them on these matters. OP will make up his own mind, just saying there is no one solution to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 In my experience upward firing and bouncing sounds off ceilings trying to create the illusion of sounds coming from above simply does not replace actually having speakers up above and sound coming from above in the first place. the amazing things with having height speakers is how effective they are in placing sounds in the height plane. This is something also I noticed missing with upward firing which is just hit miss clarification am only talking with respect of mlp. Never given a hoot about multiple rows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todagt Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 You could look at a speaker like the B&W AM1 and mount them directly to the beams themselves. An option maybe??? http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Speakers/Custom_Installation/CI_Series/AM-1.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primare Knob Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Something tells me that upwards speakers won't do wel with an exposed ceiling. Mounting the speakers to the studs won't be a big deal, so I am guesing that bookshelf speakers will do as well, or on walls. If the new algorithm is based on speaker position, then why is Atmos so fixated on ceiling speakers. Wouldn't height speakers work just as well? The ceiling is Max 2500 high, but the listen distance wouldn't be less than that of the surrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 will there be a height difference. i.e. will the ceiling speakers end up on a different plane...ie higher plane than the surrounds ? thats probably most important thing. at end of it really its based on your regular 5.1 or 7.1 on one plane and the height speakers on a plane above. as long as there abouts in position with the speakers in relation to main listening position with regards the recommendation then I would suggestion it will work just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiebosco Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Perhaps the newly released SVS Prime Elevation speakers could work? They can be used in several different configurations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 That's good product, well done SVS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 nice looking product, but i dont really understand what going to be used for though. cant put them to the side as they will be way off against the wall. rather than over head as you need for height speakers ? cant put them on the ceiling as will stick out like the proverbial and be angled ? perhaps can angle them to the main listener ? typically this style of speaker is used in home theatre to put surround speakers higher up than normal but angled down. really just to keep out of way of walking past etc. krix have been making speakers like these donkeys for their theatre setups and can buy them for $1000 pair. http://www.krix.com.au/dynamix.html commercial non finished is probably cheaper again, typically for atmos though I dont think you want your surrounds up above as will end up loosing the height differential. this isn't an issue in commercial theatres as they tend to have plenty of height to play with. so even though surrounds are higher up than normal angled down the height speakers can be at a level higher up again... perhaps am missing something .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerav Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Looks like if you turn them upside down so to speak they are more down firing, perfect for the exposed beam problem if the beam is above your head. They look like they are are middle ground speaker for people that are maybe in an apartment or can't install in-ceiling speakers. Even their ad mentions they are better than the bouncy off the ceiling option but not as good as in ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, powerav said: Looks like if you turn them upside down so to speak they are more down firing, perfect for the exposed beam problem if the beam is above your head. They look like they are are middle ground speaker for people that are maybe in an apartment or can't install in-ceiling speakers. Even their ad mentions they are better than the bouncy off the ceiling option but not as good as in ceiling. probably help for the exposed beam though am not sure of the angles. they re pretty severe rather than pointing down as such with some slight pointing of tweeters or something. Id be worried they are a little too direct. mounted ON ceiling gee am not sure how anyone would go for that for a look ? would definitely be better than "bouncy off ceiling" options I do agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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