georgehifi Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) " Conversion from multi-bit PCM to 1-bit DSD is always a lossy process. The loss is due to the 1-bit truncation." The noise is also a nasty by-product of that DSD conversion that needs serious addressing, if it wasn't your tweeters would be fried in a micro second. Cheers George Edited October 22, 2016 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 I did read this in a review on a Schiit dac. Not sure if it applies to something like the Holo Dac or is more marketing speak. " According to Schiit, “Multibit DACs differ from the vast majority of DACs in that they use true 16-20 bit D/A converters that can reproduce the exact level of every digital audio sample. Most DACs use inexpensive delta-sigma technology with a bit depth of only 1-5 bits to approximate the level of every digital audio sample, based on the values of the samples that precede and follow it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nada Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Rocky: how is the Holo sounding for you these days. Any further changes with time? Whats the best input so far? I wonder if the Holo USB input is still below par? If it is has it been burnt in? Maybe it will come right with time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Nada said: Rocky: how is the Holo sounding for you these days. Any further changes with time? Whats the best input so far? I wonder if the Holo USB input is still below par? If it is has it been burnt in? Maybe it will come right with time? Only just finally got my Preamp back. It was noisy with a very soft high pitched squeal and could not turn the volume up to much. (Been like this for quite a while) It was to do with the new Volume pot that I had installed, The designer set me some updated parts and it all seems great now. Then I lent the Dac out just before getting the Pre back. So will need more listening down the track to really know the Holo Dac better. At least it will have many hours on it now. Edited October 22, 2016 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CryptiK Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Can someone more knowledgable than me with DAC design explain what my NAD M51 is in terms of R2R or DS? It was supposed to be quite unique in its design, measured exceptionally well when stereophile reviewed it and to be honest I've heard sabre DAC's and find those I've heard (sub 5k) were a little hard sounding and became fatiguing whereas I can listen to my NAD all day. If I were to move on from it I'm thinking well implemented R2R is the way to go in terms of sound signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, CryptiK said: Can someone more knowledgable than me with DAC design explain what my NAD M51 is in terms of R2R or DS? It was supposed to be quite unique in its design, measured exceptionally well when stereophile reviewed it and to be honest I've heard sabre DAC's and find those I've heard (sub 5k) were a little hard sounding and became fatiguing whereas I can listen to my NAD all day. If I were to move on from it I'm thinking well implemented R2R is the way to go in terms of sound signature. If you could demo a Holo Dac, I think you will be impressed. It has been so easy to listen to it. Hard sounding it definitely is not. So far the only thing I can pick is the very top end in my system. I would like just a bit more sparkle. (air, twinkly sounds, hard to explain) Below that it is just great. Some songs have it though, so maybe I am just use to my previous Dacs. Once I turn up the volume it is there just not at very low listening levels. Also I can turn up the volume so much more than previous and sounds awesome compared to before it would start to hurt. Edited October 22, 2016 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedog Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 hours ago, georgehifi said: Quote: From "REAL" HD Audio " Conversion from multi-bit PCM to 1-bit DSD is always a lossy process. The loss is due to the 1-bit truncation. This truncation introduces a very large ultrasonic error signal that makes the ultrasonic region unusable for audio." Cheers George Which is why we don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Quote 8 hours ago, firedog said: Which is why we don't use it. When you say we? who else? or is it just you, that doesn't use pcm in any form, just native dsd recordings? Cheers George Edited October 22, 2016 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 12 hours ago, rocky500 said: Only just finally got my Preamp back. It was noisy with a very soft high pitched squeal and could not turn the volume up to much. (Been like this for quite a while) It was to do with the new Volume pot that I had installed, The designer set me some updated parts and it all seems great now. What have I been saying about volume pots on these neck of the woods..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Quote Only just finally got my Preamp back. It was noisy with a very soft high pitched squeal and could not turn the volume up to much. Sounds very much like an active stage (tube or S/S) is oscillating, and if it increases with volume it's the input stage (before the volume control), if not it's the output stage (after the volume control). Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, georgehifi said: Sounds very much like an active stage (tube or S/S) is oscillating, and if it increases with volume it's the input stage (before the volume control), if not it's the output stage (after the volume control). Cheers George It is a Hybrid Tube/SS type preamp. Replaced the Alps motorized pot with a Hattor resistor type motorized with a little board that had a display. It was his first model on a new type. 64 step relay based. Once I told him my problems he said that that mine was the early prototype that seemed to exhibit these problems in some situations and he had fixed it. Sent me the parts (for free) to change over & also a new remote. A new section replaced the front on the volume and a new external board that also now has 5 levels to dim the display & turn it off. Pic of some of the old parts. To get the original a little quieter I had put in a $5 DC/DC converter board that took 17V from the preamp internally & converted it to 5V for the volume. It came with a beefy little power supply that the tech mounted internally that converted 230V to 5V. That is back in as the Tech said those DC/DC buck converters are not great for audio applications like this. Edited October 23, 2016 by rocky500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) My 28cm HDMI cable came in but my Dac is doing the rounds again, so can't yet try a shorter cable between SU-1 & dac. Some opinions against other Dacs are starting to show up with the Holo. http://www.head-fi.org/t/804153/life-after-yggdrasil/825#post_12958039 Looks like almost everyone has the Stage 3 KitsuneTuned Edition Spring Dac . There is an interesting design feature for the Holo. Someone asked about updating the little blue Talema transformer like the Pure Silver main one. Response "The secondary transformer is purely for standby mode and not for audio. It keeps class a component warm and ready while all the outputs are disabled. Power consumption is reduceded significantly. Many know class a takes a while to warm up and sound its best, so we have this feature purely to keep it ready on demand instead of using the massive silver o type transformer." You can still power it off completely from the back power switch if you do not like to have components on. Edited October 26, 2016 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedog Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 TedB has added a part 2 to his review with comparison to other DACs, including Yggy. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/722-holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Why do people writing reviews feel that they must prattle for 4000 words and give 200 words describing the sound.? I was waiting for him to tell us what his dog ate for breakfast. Anyway I got the feeling the Holo sounds better to him than the Yiggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rab of Everest Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Agreed. if he had just said it was more Schiaparelli than Dior, we all would have understood immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixelPlay Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Currently have a singxer Su-1 warming up, so far I like the Holo fed by i2s. George, Rab's holo will be in soon with the UPGRADED FUSE, I hope to compare it to the stock one as I'm sure you are dying to hear the results more soon G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Quote 3 minutes ago, PixelPlay said: George, Rab's holo will be in soon with the UPGRADED FUSE, I hope to compare it to the stock one as I'm sure you are dying to hear the results more soon G. Stop baiting me, you know my answer, Um no! Cheers George Edited October 26, 2016 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 23 minutes ago, PixelPlay said: UPGRADED FUSE just replace it with a nail. should sound better being thicker and all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Quote 22 minutes ago, eltech said: just replace it with a nail. should sound better being thicker and all. Even better I have some unobtainium, and it's directional, better again. Edited October 26, 2016 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, eltech said: just replace it with a nail. should sound better being thicker and all. 57 minutes ago, georgehifi said: Even better I have some unobtainium, and it's directional, better again. Please, you two.... get that nail/unobtanium cryo treated beforehand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixelPlay Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Ah, feel the midrange is better already 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixelPlay Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I feel it has made the post that more tangible. truth be told, I am just as skeptical as you George but curiosity has the better of me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawl99 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 35 minutes ago, PixelPlay said: Ah, feel the midrange is better already Now if that had been a velour-lined case THEN I could see you getting your Travolta on.... This fuse cannot make any difference because if it does then that means the Holo is a poorly designed piece of equipment............... apparently and no DOTM could be poorly designed because much egg would then ensue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Scrambled...fried or poached... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 hours ago, eltech said: just replace it with a nail. should sound better being thicker and all. Exactly what I thought. I have no experience swapping fuse so I can't say if it makes any difference. But it's a dac surely it won't take a crazy amount of current why put a fuse there in the beginning. Just hard wire it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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