Rec. 709

ISF Calibration Photos

70 posts in this topic

I'd opt for accuracy every time, I mean that's the whole point of calibration, so the Xrite i1Pro 2

Low light is mainly a problem when calibrating a projector in ECO mode, or with a projector with a iris closed down, or both.....but even then, with most modern projectors the light output even in ECO mode should be sufficient  for the meter to not have a problem  as when measuring a projector screen you put the meter on a tripod as close to the screen as possible, and only meter a relatively small portion of the screen.[depends a lot on the size of the screen and the distance the projector is from it- that can cost you a LOT of light output the bigger and further away it is]

 

Now if you were calibration a old CRT projector, then you might run into problems, even the biggest would have lesser light output that a mid range digital projector.

 

TV's shouldn't pose a problem at all, as the meter has a weight attached to it, and you hang the meter over the screen so it touches the screen and the weight hangs on the rear of the TV to balance it....simplicity itself.

Edited by Tweaky

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Some before and pre & post calibration results from an LG OLED I calibrated today...

Pre-Calibration-GS.gif

post-cal-gs.gif

CMS.gif

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On 12/14/2016 at 9:53 PM, Tweaky said:

I'd opt for accuracy every time, I mean that's the whole point of calibration, so the Xrite i1Pro 2

Low light is mainly a problem when calibrating a projector in ECO mode, or with a projector with a iris closed down, or both.....but even then, with most modern projectors the light output even in ECO mode should be sufficient  for the meter to not have a problem  as when measuring a projector screen you put the meter on a tripod as close to the screen as possible, and only meter a relatively small portion of the screen.[depends a lot on the size of the screen and the distance the projector is from it- that can cost you a LOT of light output the bigger and further away it is]

 

Now if you were calibration a old CRT projector, then you might run into problems, even the biggest would have lesser light output that a mid range digital projector.

 

TV's shouldn't pose a problem at all, as the meter has a weight attached to it, and you hang the meter over the screen so it touches the screen and the weight hangs on the rear of the TV to balance it....simplicity itself.

thanks once again. now just need to find a good price and reliable source. so far Aus sites are a rip off.

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Rec 709.  Will definitely get you to calibrate my new projector when I settle on what to get.  Have a Marantz VP-15S1 which was Calibrated by Aaron Rigg before he retired and sold his business but I am looking for a replacement projector to take advantage of 4K sources.

 

Looking at the Benq W11000 4K DLP Projector as I am used to that DLP look.   Also will try and look at the new crop of JVCs coming out.   The hard part will be trying to find them on display anywhere in Adelaide.

 

How did you find the Sony 550ES picture wise?   

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14 hours ago, Spizz said:

Rec 709.  Will definitely get you to calibrate my new projector when I settle on what to get.  Have a Marantz VP-15S1 which was Calibrated by Aaron Rigg before he retired and sold his business but I am looking for a replacement projector to take advantage of 4K sources.

 

Looking at the Benq W11000 4K DLP Projector as I am used to that DLP look.   Also will try and look at the new crop of JVCs coming out.   The hard part will be trying to find them on display anywhere in Adelaide.

 

How did you find the Sony 550ES picture wise?   

Hi Spizz, I know what you mean, I can't think of anywhere in Adelaide that has Benq projectors on display. I'm hoping to get the W11000 for review soon, but nothing has been set in stone yet.

 

Picture wise, the Sony 550ES is very nice and well worth a look at.

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On 16/12/2016 at 8:15 PM, Rec. 709 said:

Some before and pre & post calibration results from an LG OLED I calibrated today...

Pre-Calibration-GS.gif

post-cal-gs.gif

CMS.gif

 

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen a new set so heavily blue biased, even Samsungs which I've found set that way from the factory, well not unless the owner had specifically screwed around with the colours before calibration.....still, pretty hard to imagine how it got that far out of whack.

Before and after shots must be like chalk and cheese.

 

Makes you laugh really, thinking what people will put up with thinking they have a relatively good picture.....that's until they calibrate the screen, then it's blatantly obvious just how bad it was.

 

I see you left the luminance levels slightly lower, rather than higher, I suppose that would be to counteract the shock of going form a blue cast to what would have been perceived as a Red cast if you had calibrated the luminace in the + side......that would have been a bit like rubbing it in on just how bad they had it :D

Edited by Tweaky

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39 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

 

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen a new set so heavily blue biased, even Samsungs which I've found set that way from the factory, well not unless the owner had specifically screwed around with the colours before calibration.....still, pretty hard to imagine how it got that far out of whack.

Before and after shots must be like chalk and cheese.

 

Makes you laugh really, thinking what people will put up with thinking they have a relatively good picture.....that's until they calibrate the screen, then it's blatantly obvious just how bad it was.

 

I see you left the luminance levels slightly lower, rather than higher, I suppose that would be to counteract the shock of going form a blue cast to what would have been perceived as a Red cast if you had calibrated the luminace in the + side......that would have been a bit like rubbing it in on just how bad they had it :D

 

This is pretty typical of what I'm seeing with the latest generation of OLED's (if I recall correctly they've either been in APS or Standard mode). Although it's not in the report I shared, gamma (EOTF) was also tracking at around 2.50 at the bottom-mid range.

 

The last generation of OLED's didn't have as much +blue error in the GS, however they were usually quite red deficient, resulting in a very cyan caste with actual viewing material. Gamma was usually around 2.00-2.10, making the image flat and noisy. 


Luminance error was so small that it wasn't actually perceivable by eye, as was the small error in saturation for green and red. Once I'm well below the visible error threshold I stop, as the errors aren't visible and it becomes a purely theoretical exercise. :-) 

 

Sometimes things can look really good on paper, but with actual viewing material, it's just not quite right (or good, but not as good as it could be). As I result of this I tend to spend a bit of time fine tuning after the measurement part of the calibration, which often results in small adjustments being made. 

 

Edited by Rec. 709
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Well from what you are finding, and I see in those test results, OLED screens might have a white reproduction problem.

 

If they are boosting the Blue that much [ Heavily increased Blue makes Whites appear brighter to the eye, same trick with washing powder.....that's why White clothes eventually go Grey] it's to fool the eye into thinking there is a greater contrast than there actually is......result being, the Blacks appear deeper, because the whites aren't in reality, all that White.

 

If the end result looks good, it shouldn't matter how it achieved.....but, it does seem there is a bit of trickery going on with these OLED screens, this does sort of bare out the Flat image you are finding in gamma calibration......the worrying thing is these sets will lose brightness over time....how muddy a picture could they end up over a LED/LCD display?

 

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Nothing out of the norm Tweaky, all TV's tend to default to Standard or something similar as it's what the masses like. By the way... I calibrated another OLED today and measured pretty similar results in APS mode (the mode the customer had it in prior to calibration).

 

 

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Below are some images from an LG OLED which I calibrated for a customer today. Pre-calibration measurement where pretty similar to the graphs I posted earlier.... I know, I should have got pre-calibration shots as well! :)

 

With OLED's I'm targeting a slightly lower gamma number than I normally use, but I'm finding it gives a better sense of overall depth to the picture. It also helps that the on-board calibration controls allow gamma adjustment at each and every step.

 

PS: Apologies for the photos being on an angle.

 

 

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20161220_162240.jpg

Edited by Rec. 709
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@Rec. 709  wondering if done much calibration wise when comes to bt2020 space SDR and HDR when comes with UHD ?

 

particulary around projectors however be intersting if done panels as well.

 

I've been using the Eggs that come with the Sony UHD disc for dealing in contrast using the 10x trick. made a huge difference...used method detailed in thread below,

 

not a calibration but some basics is probably what Id like to do for starters colour, brightness seems a bit left to imagination ! 

 

are there any UHD source discs for doing the basics ...

 

and also keen to know if you calibrate in this space :)

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On 19/12/2016 at 4:06 PM, Tweaky said:

 

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen a new set so heavily blue biased, even Samsungs which I've found set that way from the factory, well not unless the owner had specifically screwed around with the colours before calibration.....still, pretty hard to imagine how it got that far out of whack.

Before and after shots must be like chalk and cheese.

 

Makes you laugh really, thinking what people will put up with thinking they have a relatively good picture.....that's until they calibrate the screen, then it's blatantly obvious just how bad it was.

 

I see you left the luminance levels slightly lower, rather than higher, I suppose that would be to counteract the shock of going form a blue cast to what would have been perceived as a Red cast if you had calibrated the luminace in the + side......that would have been a bit like rubbing it in on just how bad they had it :D

 

 

If someones played with the settings and throw  the Blue that far out could indicate that: 

 

There maybe an intermittent fault with the blue gamma at one stage, and it needed the blue to be cranked up.

The pictured displayed was lacking in the blue output

The individual who played with the settings could be color blind and need there eyesight tested.

 

These are just some of the possibilities.

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I think I sort of misinterpreted what I meant with a bad description in my last post.

 

Problem lies with  how cool the color balance is ....BLUE = Cool ....Brighter perceived

 

A Cool / Blue cast could, and would effect , how any picture is perceived 

 

I guess you upped the Yellow to give the picture some punch..

Edited by Tweaky

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On 21/12/2016 at 10:53 AM, :) al said:

@Rec. 709  wondering if done much calibration wise when comes to bt2020 space SDR and HDR when comes with UHD ?

 

particulary around projectors however be intersting if done panels as well.

 

I've been using the Eggs that come with the Sony UHD disc for dealing in contrast using the 10x trick. made a huge difference...used method detailed in thread below,

 

not a calibration but some basics is probably what Id like to do for starters colour, brightness seems a bit left to imagination ! 

 

are there any UHD source discs for doing the basics ...

 

and also keen to know if you calibrate in this space :)

Hi :) al, all of my projector clients have been waiting on the arrival of the Oppo 4K player, so it has mainly been flat panels for me (with UHD anyway). I do work with BT 2020, or rather DCI in a 2020 container. It depends on the display, but there's often not the same level of controls which are available in HD. Still no HDR calibration discs available as far as I'm aware of. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rec. 709
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3 hours ago, Rec. 709 said:

Hi :) al, all of my projector clients have been waiting on the arrival of the Oppo 4K player, so it has mainly been flat panels for me (with UHD anyway). I do work with BT 2020, or rather DCI in a 2020 container. It depends on the display, but there's often not the same level of controls which are available in HD. Still no HDR calibration discs available as far as I'm aware of. 

 

 

 

 

thanks 709, well the oppo is here and am sure having fun with it :D 

 

so does that mean you are all geared up for UHD blu-ray calibration bt2020 HDR  calibrations ?

 

that said oppo is still messing about to get the BT2020 SDR sidesorted so perhaps might be worth waiting for that yet before calibration :) 

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On 22/12/2016 at 8:43 PM, :) al said:

 

thanks 709, well the oppo is here and am sure having fun with it :D 

 

so does that mean you are all geared up for UHD blu-ray calibration bt2020 HDR  calibrations ?

 

that said oppo is still messing about to get the BT2020 SDR sidesorted so perhaps might be worth waiting for that yet before calibration :) 

 

Hi :) al, apologies for the late response, the week leading up to Christmas was hectic and apart from disabling over scan on the television at the holiday shack we rented (I was the only one who cared by the way), I didn't think much about calibration. :)

 

To answer your question, yes I am geared up for UHD calibrations.

 

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8 hours ago, Rec. 709 said:

 

 

 

 

Hi :) al, apologies for the late response, the week leading up to Christmas was hectic and apart from disabling over scan on the television at the holiday shack we rented (I was the only one who cared by the way), I didn't think much about calibration. :)

 

 

 

To answer your question, yes I am geared up for UHD calibrations.

 

 

 

Thanks Tony, that's good to hear. So when you coming to Melb for calibrations :D

 

Though the oppo still a touch buggy for liking... and they're also still sorting the SDR bt2020 so maybe worth sitting tight for moment :)

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12 hours ago, :) al said:

 

Thanks Tony, that's good to hear. So when you coming to Melb for calibrations :D

 

Though the oppo still a touch buggy for liking... and they're also still sorting the SDR bt2020 so maybe worth sitting tight for moment :)

Hoping to be in Melbourne in March/April, but it will be subject to the amount of bookings I have.

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7 minutes ago, Rec. 709 said:

 

Hoping to be in Melbourne in March/April, but it will be subject to the amount of bookings I have.

 

Good to hear :thumb:

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In addition to calibrating home theatres, I also work with post production facilities who on a range of projects, including TV Commercials, TV shows and feature films. The client pictured below is a Visual Effects Artist, who has worked on some pretty interesting projects, including Wolf Creek 2 and The Anzac Girls. It's always interesting to talk to people in this field (well at least for me! :)) as it gives you a greater appreciation of the work they do in delivering movie and TV images that are as good as they can be and convey the right 'visual feel'. 

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Edited by Rec. 709
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