ISF Calibration Photos

[Tweaky]

I'd opt for accuracy every time, I mean that's the whole point of calibration, so the Xrite i1Pro 2

Low light is mainly a problem when calibrating a projector in ECO mode, or with a projector with a iris closed down, or both.....but even then, with most modern projectors the light output even in ECO mode should be sufficient  for the meter to not have a problem  as when measuring a projector screen you put the meter on a tripod as close to the screen as possible, and only meter a relatively small portion of the screen.[depends a lot on the size of the screen and the distance the projector is from it- that can cost you a LOT of light output the bigger and further away it is]

 

Now if you were calibration a old CRT projector, then you might run into problems, even the biggest would have lesser light output that a mid range digital projector.

 

TV's shouldn't pose a problem at all, as the meter has a weight attached to it, and you hang the meter over the screen so it touches the screen and the weight hangs on the rear of the TV to balance it....simplicity itself.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Tweaky

[Clarity Calibration]

Some before and pre & post calibration results from an LG OLED I calibrated today...

[genkifd]

On 12/14/2016 at 9:53 PM, Tweaky said:

I'd opt for accuracy every time, I mean that's the whole point of calibration, so the Xrite i1Pro 2

Low light is mainly a problem when calibrating a projector in ECO mode, or with a projector with a iris closed down, or both.....but even then, with most modern projectors the light output even in ECO mode should be sufficient  for the meter to not have a problem  as when measuring a projector screen you put the meter on a tripod as close to the screen as possible, and only meter a relatively small portion of the screen.[depends a lot on the size of the screen and the distance the projector is from it- that can cost you a LOT of light output the bigger and further away it is]

 

Now if you were calibration a old CRT projector, then you might run into problems, even the biggest would have lesser light output that a mid range digital projector.

 

TV's shouldn't pose a problem at all, as the meter has a weight attached to it, and you hang the meter over the screen so it touches the screen and the weight hangs on the rear of the TV to balance it....simplicity itself.

thanks once again. now just need to find a good price and reliable source. so far Aus sites are a rip off.

[Spizz]

Rec 709.  Will definitely get you to calibrate my new projector when I settle on what to get.  Have a Marantz VP-15S1 which was Calibrated by Aaron Rigg before he retired and sold his business but I am looking for a replacement projector to take advantage of 4K sources.

 

Looking at the Benq W11000 4K DLP Projector as I am used to that DLP look.   Also will try and look at the new crop of JVCs coming out.   The hard part will be trying to find them on display anywhere in Adelaide.

 

How did you find the Sony 550ES picture wise?   

[Clarity Calibration]

14 hours ago, Spizz said:

Rec 709.  Will definitely get you to calibrate my new projector when I settle on what to get.  Have a Marantz VP-15S1 which was Calibrated by Aaron Rigg before he retired and sold his business but I am looking for a replacement projector to take advantage of 4K sources.

 

Looking at the Benq W11000 4K DLP Projector as I am used to that DLP look.   Also will try and look at the new crop of JVCs coming out.   The hard part will be trying to find them on display anywhere in Adelaide.

 

How did you find the Sony 550ES picture wise?   

Hi Spizz, I know what you mean, I can't think of anywhere in Adelaide that has Benq projectors on display. I'm hoping to get the W11000 for review soon, but nothing has been set in stone yet.

 

Picture wise, the Sony 550ES is very nice and well worth a look at.

[Tweaky]

On 16/12/2016 at 8:15 PM, Rec. 709 said:

Some before and pre & post calibration results from an LG OLED I calibrated today...

 

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen a new set so heavily blue biased, even Samsungs which I've found set that way from the factory, well not unless the owner had specifically screwed around with the colours before calibration.....still, pretty hard to imagine how it got that far out of whack.

Before and after shots must be like chalk and cheese.

 

Makes you laugh really, thinking what people will put up with thinking they have a relatively good picture.....that's until they calibrate the screen, then it's blatantly obvious just how bad it was.

 

I see you left the luminance levels slightly lower, rather than higher, I suppose that would be to counteract the shock of going form a blue cast to what would have been perceived as a Red cast if you had calibrated the luminace in the + side......that would have been a bit like rubbing it in on just how bad they had it

Edited December 19, 2016 by Tweaky

[Clarity Calibration]

39 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

 

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen a new set so heavily blue biased, even Samsungs which I've found set that way from the factory, well not unless the owner had specifically screwed around with the colours before calibration.....still, pretty hard to imagine how it got that far out of whack.

Before and after shots must be like chalk and cheese.

 

Makes you laugh really, thinking what people will put up with thinking they have a relatively good picture.....that's until they calibrate the screen, then it's blatantly obvious just how bad it was.

 

I see you left the luminance levels slightly lower, rather than higher, I suppose that would be to counteract the shock of going form a blue cast to what would have been perceived as a Red cast if you had calibrated the luminace in the + side......that would have been a bit like rubbing it in on just how bad they had it

 

This is pretty typical of what I'm seeing with the latest generation of OLED's (if I recall correctly they've either been in APS or Standard mode). Although it's not in the report I shared, gamma (EOTF) was also tracking at around 2.50 at the bottom-mid range.

 

The last generation of OLED's didn't have as much +blue error in the GS, however they were usually quite red deficient, resulting in a very cyan caste with actual viewing material. Gamma was usually around 2.00-2.10, making the image flat and noisy. 

Luminance error was so small that it wasn't actually perceivable by eye, as was the small error in saturation for green and red. Once I'm well below the visible error threshold I stop, as the errors aren't visible and it becomes a purely theoretical exercise. :-) 

 

Sometimes things can look really good on paper, but with actual viewing material, it's just not quite right (or good, but not as good as it could be). As I result of this I tend to spend a bit of time fine tuning after the measurement part of the calibration, which often results in small adjustments being made. 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Rec. 709
spelling

[Tweaky]

Well from what you are finding, and I see in those test results, OLED screens might have a white reproduction problem.

 

If they are boosting the Blue that much [ Heavily increased Blue makes Whites appear brighter to the eye, same trick with washing powder.....that's why White clothes eventually go Grey] it's to fool the eye into thinking there is a greater contrast than there actually is......result being, the Blacks appear deeper, because the whites aren't in reality, all that White.

 

If the end result looks good, it shouldn't matter how it achieved.....but, it does seem there is a bit of trickery going on with these OLED screens, this does sort of bare out the Flat image you are finding in gamma calibration......the worrying thing is these sets will lose brightness over time....how muddy a picture could they end up over a LED/LCD display?

 

[Clarity Calibration]

Nothing out of the norm Tweaky, all TV's tend to default to Standard or something similar as it's what the masses like. By the way... I calibrated another OLED today and measured pretty similar results in APS mode (the mode the customer had it in prior to calibration).

 

 

[Clarity Calibration]

Below are some images from an LG OLED which I calibrated for a customer today. Pre-calibration measurement where pretty similar to the graphs I posted earlier.... I know, I should have got pre-calibration shots as well! 

 

With OLED's I'm targeting a slightly lower gamma number than I normally use, but I'm finding it gives a better sense of overall depth to the picture. It also helps that the on-board calibration controls allow gamma adjustment at each and every step.

 

PS: Apologies for the photos being on an angle.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Rec. 709
Added PS

[betty boop]

@Rec. 709  wondering if done much calibration wise when comes to bt2020 space SDR and HDR when comes with UHD ?

 

particulary around projectors however be intersting if done panels as well.

 

I've been using the Eggs that come with the Sony UHD disc for dealing in contrast using the 10x trick. made a huge difference...used method detailed in thread below,

 

not a calibration but some basics is probably what Id like to do for starters colour, brightness seems a bit left to imagination ! 

 

are there any UHD source discs for doing the basics ...

 

and also keen to know if you calibrate in this space

[Addicted to music]

On 19/12/2016 at 4:06 PM, Tweaky said:

 

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen a new set so heavily blue biased, even Samsungs which I've found set that way from the factory, well not unless the owner had specifically screwed around with the colours before calibration.....still, pretty hard to imagine how it got that far out of whack.

Before and after shots must be like chalk and cheese.

 

Makes you laugh really, thinking what people will put up with thinking they have a relatively good picture.....that's until they calibrate the screen, then it's blatantly obvious just how bad it was.

 

I see you left the luminance levels slightly lower, rather than higher, I suppose that would be to counteract the shock of going form a blue cast to what would have been perceived as a Red cast if you had calibrated the luminace in the + side......that would have been a bit like rubbing it in on just how bad they had it

 

 

If someones played with the settings and throw  the Blue that far out could indicate that: 

 

There maybe an intermittent fault with the blue gamma at one stage, and it needed the blue to be cranked up.

The pictured displayed was lacking in the blue output

The individual who played with the settings could be color blind and need there eyesight tested.

 

These are just some of the possibilities.

[Tweaky]

I think I sort of misinterpreted what I meant with a bad description in my last post.

 

Problem lies with  how cool the color balance is ....BLUE = Cool ....Brighter perceived

 

A Cool / Blue cast could, and would effect , how any picture is perceived 

 

I guess you upped the Yellow to give the picture some punch..

Edited December 21, 2016 by Tweaky

[Clarity Calibration]

On 21/12/2016 at 10:53 AM, al said:

@Rec. 709  wondering if done much calibration wise when comes to bt2020 space SDR and HDR when comes with UHD ?

 

particulary around projectors however be intersting if done panels as well.

 

I've been using the Eggs that come with the Sony UHD disc for dealing in contrast using the 10x trick. made a huge difference...used method detailed in thread below,

 

not a calibration but some basics is probably what Id like to do for starters colour, brightness seems a bit left to imagination ! 

 

are there any UHD source discs for doing the basics ...

 

and also keen to know if you calibrate in this space

Hi al, all of my projector clients have been waiting on the arrival of the Oppo 4K player, so it has mainly been flat panels for me (with UHD anyway). I do work with BT 2020, or rather DCI in a 2020 container. It depends on the display, but there's often not the same level of controls which are available in HD. Still no HDR calibration discs available as far as I'm aware of. 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Rec. 709
Clarity

[betty boop]

3 hours ago, Rec. 709 said:

Hi al, all of my projector clients have been waiting on the arrival of the Oppo 4K player, so it has mainly been flat panels for me (with UHD anyway). I do work with BT 2020, or rather DCI in a 2020 container. It depends on the display, but there's often not the same level of controls which are available in HD. Still no HDR calibration discs available as far as I'm aware of. 

 

 

 

 

thanks 709, well the oppo is here and am sure having fun with it  

 

so does that mean you are all geared up for UHD blu-ray calibration bt2020 HDR  calibrations ?

 

that said oppo is still messing about to get the BT2020 SDR sidesorted so perhaps might be worth waiting for that yet before calibration  

[Clarity Calibration]

On 22/12/2016 at 8:43 PM, al said:

 

thanks 709, well the oppo is here and am sure having fun with it  

 

so does that mean you are all geared up for UHD blu-ray calibration bt2020 HDR  calibrations ?

 

that said oppo is still messing about to get the BT2020 SDR sidesorted so perhaps might be worth waiting for that yet before calibration  

 

Hi al, apologies for the late response, the week leading up to Christmas was hectic and apart from disabling over scan on the television at the holiday shack we rented (I was the only one who cared by the way), I didn't think much about calibration.

 

To answer your question, yes I am geared up for UHD calibrations.

 

[betty boop]

8 hours ago, Rec. 709 said:

 

 

 

 

Hi al, apologies for the late response, the week leading up to Christmas was hectic and apart from disabling over scan on the television at the holiday shack we rented (I was the only one who cared by the way), I didn't think much about calibration.

 

 

 

To answer your question, yes I am geared up for UHD calibrations.

 

 

 

Thanks Tony, that's good to hear. So when you coming to Melb for calibrations

 

Though the oppo still a touch buggy for liking... and they're also still sorting the SDR bt2020 so maybe worth sitting tight for moment

[Clarity Calibration]

 

12 hours ago, al said:

 

Thanks Tony, that's good to hear. So when you coming to Melb for calibrations

 

Though the oppo still a touch buggy for liking... and they're also still sorting the SDR bt2020 so maybe worth sitting tight for moment

Hoping to be in Melbourne in March/April, but it will be subject to the amount of bookings I have.

[betty boop]

7 minutes ago, Rec. 709 said:

 

Hoping to be in Melbourne in March/April, but it will be subject to the amount of bookings I have.

 

Good to hear 

[Clarity Calibration]

In addition to calibrating home theatres, I also work with post production facilities who on a range of projects, including TV Commercials, TV shows and feature films. The client pictured below is a Visual Effects Artist, who has worked on some pretty interesting projects, including Wolf Creek 2 and The Anzac Girls. It's always interesting to talk to people in this field (well at least for me! :)) as it gives you a greater appreciation of the work they do in delivering movie and TV images that are as good as they can be and convey the right 'visual feel'. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Rec. 709
spelling

[Clarity Calibration]

Some shots of a Samsung JS8000 (with bias lighting) which I re-calibrated yesterday for a client.

[~Spyne~]

57 minutes ago, Rec. 709 said:

Some shots of a Samsung JS8000 (with bias lighting) which I re-calibrated yesterday for a client.

 

How did you find the Sammy after calibration?
No before shots to side-by-side?

[Tweaky]

In the second shot, to me the left of the screen, from the far left edge in to midway between the left edge of the shed, looks like the Green Bias is out compared to the rest of the screen

 

Not as noticeable in the first shot, probably because it is a lighter overall scene, but still there.

 

Is this a curved screen ?...If it is that would probably explain the disparity showing in the photo.

 

What is BIAS lighting anyway, first I've heard of it..... by having the word BIAS in it, I'm guessing it only works in the 65%-90% range, and leaves the range that would be calibrated with the RGB Gain controls alone.

 

I'm serious looking at getting a new Sony X9300D 4K HDR TV, if only because I want to be able to playback my 3D movies in years to come, and since all manufacturers have decided to knock 3D on the head, this will be my last chance unless there is a change of heart.

OLED is nice for Black level, but there are still things it doesn't do as well as LCD, plus the backlighting on that Sony can be pretty darn close to OLED once calibrated.

 

REC.709 have you calibrated any of those Hisense 4K TV's, the K700UWD model range to be specific ? I somewhat doubt somebody would call out a ISF tech to calibrate such a cheap TV, but some tech website are giving the picture quality a good rap, if not their 'Smart TV' software, which from reading reviews seems to be woeful.

I only ask as I was thinking of getting one to keep in storage as a spare 3D TV, I've no interest in any of it's 'Smart ' abilities

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Tweaky

[betty boop]

30 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

OLED is nice for Black level, but there are still things it doesn't do as well as LCD, plus the backlighting on that Sony can be pretty darn close to OLED once calibrated.

 

the back lighting on LCD is still in zones though....no matter how many zones they dream up unless its individual pixels dimming then its never going to compare with OLED  

[Tweaky]

Yeah but LCD's don't suffer burn in like OLED's - similar to old Plasma displays - hence not the ideal type of TV if you do a lot of gaming, which tend to have a lot of static images where score bars etc are.

 

Plus they are not as bright, which is why they aren't as good for 3D, and one of the reasons LG said it will stop making them 3D capable..... and since Sony is now sourcing their panels from LG, it leaves Sony in the position of having to follow suite in dropping 3D support, even though they were the ones who made the biggest deal about it on release.

 

If I wanted the best TV for purely 2D movie watching, I would buy a OLED, but the limitations of the current generation of OLED's I mentioned above, don't make them the ideal option for my needs.