What amp, to drive ELAC 207A's?

[myminirocks]

Hey everyone over here in the land of amplifiers!

I have been bugging the speaker people for a little while now until I have found my perfect pair, Elac 207A's

So, first of all, I currently only have my old Pioneer off the shelf CD Player/amplifier thing (XR-P970F) Yeah, I know, laugh now, but it has been a very reliable system and a tear will be shed when she retires.

So, because I blew my budget on the Speakers, It will be a little while before I can get an amp (4mths)

Is there anything wrong with running the ELAC's with my current system, can I do any damage to the ELAC's? I read somewhere about underpowered amps 'clipping' and damaging the internals of high quality speakers?

SO that is question number 1, question number 2, what amp am I going to need to run them? I see the are rated 4Ohm nominal, so they are going to be a bit difficult huh?

Also, if possible, the amp needs to be able to power a second zone (my B&W WM2's outside) from a different source, or the same source so we can either have something different, or same in both zones. Possible, with out going AVR?

Anyway, would love to hear from anyone who has some ELAC's and some suggestions for me to try out.

Cheers

[kdoot]

4ohm impedance and 89db sensitivity is pretty standard for this class of 2.5-way floorstander, not too difficult at all for the majority of stereo amps you're likely to encounter even towards the entry end of the range. I've no idea what your old amp can handle - proceed with caution unless you can confirm it's rated to work with 4ohm speakers.

The multi zone thing can be tricky without going to an AV amp, which just about everybody around here agrees is not the ideal thing to do for stereo music listening. The Rotel 1062 has a separate record/listen option so you could be listening to one thing on the ELACs while sending the same or a different source out a "record" pair to a second amp's line input. Presumably the second amp might be a bit cheaper than the roughly $1200 Rotel.

Since you're using iTunes as your main source (per your other thread) there's a bunch of options using AirPort Express and stuff which would let you just choose stereo amps which sound good and suit your other criteria while still getting music in both places.

[Telecine]

Don't know what you current amps specs are but if you don't push it too hard it should be fine.

There is also a Rotel RX-1052 multi-zone stereo receiver going cheap in the classifieds here that should meet your requirements.

[myminirocks]

4ohm impedance and 89db sensitivity is pretty standard for this class of 2.5-way floorstander, not too difficult at all for the majority of stereo amps you're likely to encounter even towards the entry end of the range. I've no idea what your old amp can handle - proceed with caution unless you can confirm it's rated to work with 4ohm speakers.

Since you're using iTunes as your main source (per your other thread) there's a bunch of options using AirPort Express and stuff which would let you just choose stereo amps which sound good and suit your other criteria while still getting music in both places.

So when you say proceed with caution, caution for the speakers sake or the amp? If there is any chance of damaging the speakers using an under rated amp then I won't even try them, but if the only danger is hurting the amp I will at least give it a shot, carefully of course. What do I need to look for in the specs for my amp to know if it will be ok? I don't have the manual anymore but I can probably find it online.

And with the multizone thing, I think you are right, I actually started this whole thing looking for an avr that could power up to 4 zones and realised a few things. 1/ I would not be able to switch zones/sources with my iphone 2/ There will be a huge expense in cable to each zone, and 3/ the amps are huge, and very very expensive, not to mention, probably not fantastic quality.

So I am going to throw that whole notion out the window and concentrate on getting a little, cheap amp to run my outdoor, throw an airport express on the back of it and be done with it, and from now on buy powered speakers and an AP express for each new zone I want to add. Easier, cheaper, infinite scalability and controllable from the iphone. I guess i just like 'all in one' solutions, but I am fast realising in the audio game, this is not a good idea.

Telecine, I like that amp. Are Rotels having some reliability issues recently, I seem to come across a lot of bad rap's recently? Also, as kdoot has pointed out in my other thread, the ELAC's are quite bright, are Rotels know as a bright amp? I think Cambridge are considered generally bright? So for a bright speaker, what brand would generally be considered warm?

cheers guys!!

[Ash022]

Hi
I have two pairsof Elacs. A pair of Jet 330s, and a pair of 209s. (Selling 330). They are both fabulous. The danger with a low powered amp is overdriving your amp and putting distortion through the speakers. So as long as the amp is not distorting you should be fine. Thats my understanding, but I'll check with our technical guru.
Ashley

[myminirocks]

Hi
I have two pairsof Elacs. A pair of Jet 330s, and a pair of 209s. (Selling 330). They are both fabulous. The danger with a low powered amp is overdriving your amp and putting distortion through the speakers. So as long as the amp is not distorting you should be fine. Thats my understanding, but I'll check with our technical guru.
Ashley

WooHoo! An Elac owner, I begining to wonder if there was any out there!

So plug em in, start very very low and listen for distortion, gradually wind it up carefully listening for distortion. No distortion, all ok?

What do you use to run your 209's?
hey is this your first post?
Welcome to SNA. This place is great!

[saintpeter]

WooHoo! An Elac owner, I begining to wonder if there was any out there!

So plug em in, start very very low and listen for distortion, gradually wind it up carefully listening for distortion. No distortion, all ok?

What do you use to run your 209's?
hey is this your first post?
Welcome to SNA. This place is great!

G'day MMR, your plan will end in tears if you try it. By the time you are hearing clipping, you're already doing or have done damage. There might be a protection circuit somewhere which will trip first and prevent major damage, but best to keep levels really low until you get a suitable amp.

[Ash022]

Hi
Thanks for the welcome, yes my first post, although I have been meaning to get here for a while. Yes an Elac owner. I checked with our tech guy and he confirmed that you can use your amp, so long as you don't distort it. He says the 207s have protection ciruitry for distortion built in. But you wouldn't be trying to play it too loud at all. So the last poster has a point, don't try and find the distortion by overdoing it. That said the pioneer won't do your 207s justice!!

I have a pair of Merlin valve amps, although they are still in Canberra and I am waiting to get them up here, so I haven't heard them with the 209s yet. In the meantime I have been using my old Musical Fidelity.

cheers
Ashely

[myminirocks]

G'day MMR, your plan will end in tears if you try it. By the time you are hearing clipping, you're already doing or have done damage. There might be a protection circuit somewhere which will trip first and prevent major damage, but best to keep levels really low until you get a suitable amp.

Hmm, sounds like I should just wait till I get the new amp, Ash, yeah I read that all drivers have a protection circuit built in, I thought that might have been from driving them too hard with an amp too big.

It funny, I never thought an underpowered amp would do damage to a speaker?

Hey I was reading something about the 207's that they were not recommended for valve amps? I see if I can find it.....

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/l...dspeakers.html

Interesting review, very technically, all waaaaay over my head, but interesting none the less.

Ash it is funny you say you are using the music fidelity, I was looking at some of those last night, on a purely cosmetic basis they are really sexy! BUt a little out of my price range. I really need to keep this under the $800 mark. This day I put a deposit on the Elac I can home and the dishwasher blew up, and with all this rain around, my motorbike is fast becoming very inconvenient, so looks Like i need to get a car very soon as well.

I really started this journey at the wrong time!

[Ash022]

Hi ya

Yikes, it never rains but pours.

Re valves and Elacs, the Elacs are very quick speakers, and so don't go so great with valves, although these are pretty meaty valve maps, so they sounded alright, but a bit limited. I actually have a Naquadria Stealth mosfet amp coming to use with the 209s. The valves really sang with Magneplanars, although although that was a while back now. Moving to a smaller house meant selling the maggies and using the 330 jets for a while.

An option for a cheap amp might be an old Perreuax mosfet amp. Buy for under $1000 and they can be fixed up for about $300, I think. And will sound pretty damn good, and you get a lot of watts for your money.

[isilver]

I've got a pair of ELAC BS244s (bookshelf) at home and when looking around for those I auditioned bookshelves in the 60 series, the 200 series like yours, and the BS243 & 244 and all powered by a Cambridge Audio A550 amplifier.

I was very impressed with the detail of the combination, it was lovely and clear, lovely top-end on all of them - so shortly after I started looking for amps and auditioned Arcam A18 and A28 integrateds, the current Rotel integrated amp (forget model # but RRP about $1200) and a couple of others but ended up purchasing a Cambridge Audio A650 to power the BS244s and I am very happy with the setup.

I sent an email to ELAC asking what amps they recommend and the Technical Director responded saying they don't recommend any amps but use Primare for a lot of their testing; for me the Primare entry level amp was out of range (budget-wise) and didn't have inputs for a second pair of speakers or a pre-out for a subwoofer if I want to do 2.1 sound - features the Cambridge Audio models both have. They like Chord cables also for speakers connections.

I'd recommend the Cambridge Audio A650 for your 207s, it's RRP is $999 but you should be able to buy one for under $800 (I did but I'm in Melbourne).

Good luck and great listening.
Gary

[myminirocks]

I've got a pair of ELAC BS244s (bookshelf) at home and when looking around for those I auditioned bookshelves in the 60 series, the 200 series like yours, and the BS243 & 244 and all powered by a Cambridge Audio A550 amplifier.

I was very impressed with the detail of the combination, it was lovely and clear, lovely top-end on all of them - so shortly after I started looking for amps and auditioned Arcam A18 and A28 integrateds, the current Rotel integrated amp (forget model # but RRP about $1200) and a couple of others but ended up purchasing a Cambridge Audio A650 to power the BS244s and I am very happy with the setup.

I sent an email to ELAC asking what amps they recommend and the Technical Director responded saying they don't recommend any amps but use Primare for a lot of their testing; for me the Primare entry level amp was out of range (budget-wise) and didn't have inputs for a second pair of speakers or a pre-out for a subwoofer if I want to do 2.1 sound - features the Cambridge Audio models both have. They like Chord cables also for speakers connections.

I'd recommend the Cambridge Audio A650 for your 207s, it's RRP is $999 but you should be able to buy one for under $800 (I did but I'm in Melbourne).

Good luck and great listening.
Gary

Hi Gary, thanks mate, really good post. I have always like the CA stuff, and well priced for my budget also, and, I have a gift voucher at a VideoPro store in Brisbane and they stock CA.

I had always liked CA for top end details etc, but a little worried that paired with the Elac's it might be a bit too much. Obviously the same old theory applies here, go and listen to them.

Hey I loved the BS244's, they were just a bit out of my price range considering the fantastic deal I got on the FS207's, but beautiful speaker, sounds like your still happy with them.

Looks like I am going to have to pay the Elac's off for a bit longer then I thought, I swear everything that could break or go wrong in my place right now, has.

Oh well, all the more time to look forward to them, and I might be able to find the right amp by then and just bring it all home at the same time.

Anyone want to buy I well maintained, great condition Suzuki GS500??

[isilver]

... a little worried that paired with the Elac's it might be a bit too much. Obviously the same old theory applies here, go and listen to them.

I don't think you will find that, especially if you like the CA sound - but you don't have my ears, and yes, listen before you buy is the best rule!

[Ash022]

Hi
Thanks for the review. He speaks well of the 207s, as well he should :-). Having a little look the reviewer says:

>>impedance/phase measurements is interesting for a couple of reasons. First of all, I have rarely seen such a uniformly low impedance in a loudspeaker before, and here it seldom rises above 4 ohms, being mostly just below that in the upper bass, and above in the lower midrange.

I am not electrical, but, this speaks well of the speaker. A speaker needs uniform resistance to be able to provide a flat response (like every bit of the system). So this means no parts of the sound are too loud or too soft, ie no holes or excessive brightness etc, no boom and tizz.

>>This is a measurement with a message, and that message is “current”! Tubes are definitely out with the ELAC, I would say, unless you listen at quite low levels. Since impedance usually determines frequency response to a larger extent with tube amps, you won’t have large variations of the sort you might get with some speakers, you just won’t get much power out of the amp, and audible distortion is very possible. Tube life could also be adversely affected because of the above-normal current demands. Tube lovers, you have been warned,

I am not sure I can see where he is getting his idea about the current demands from in the graph about impediance. Why does he say these speakers require high current from a valve amp? Where does he get that idea from?

With mine 4 ohms is ideal as they were setup for the Magneplanars which are also 4 ohm. These are also high current amps with 60 watts per channel, so no problem there. And the tubes are run conservatively, ie 50% power output, so they don't blow. But it takes quite a few tubes to do that so they are big things to lug around.

Anyone know anyone driving caberra to brisbane or sydney to brisbane? so i can get them up here. Truck too bumpy, but air freight is the alternative.

cheers

Ashley

[Hydrology]

myminirocks,
Up until recently I was using a Cambridge 740A (100W) which worked well with my 207s. They have dropped in price a few months ago down to $1299. However, I recently upgraded to a Cyrus 6XP (which is for sale in the classifieds section BTW!) and the difference was enormous! Such a powerful sound from a little 40W amp. Ive now upgraded to a Cyrus Pre XPd, and two 8 Powers (monobloc) and amazing sound greets my ears. Sad to say I have also moved the Elacs on to pastures new now, but Ill always have a soft spot for them. The Cyrus gear does suit the Elacs from my own experience.

[kdoot]

I am not sure I can see where he is getting his idea about the current demands from in the graph about impediance. Why does he say these speakers require high current from a valve amp? Where does he get that idea from?

Basic electrical theory. Half the impedance (vs 8 ohms) means twice the current needs to flow in order to deliver the same amount of power. It's not that they require high current "from a valve amp" per se, just they require high current in general.

[myminirocks]

Hey iSilver- yeah I will definately be giving the 650A a listen, i do like the feature list so interting to hear it

Hi Ash, yeah it was a pretty glowing review huh. Always nice to find good reviews on something you have already bought! Yeah all the technical stuff was a bit over my head.

Hydrology - good to hear that the CA's was a good choice for you as well, I think that Cryus is a little out of my budget but sounds like it really made then sing!

kdoot - I think I need to go back to sparky school ;-)

[Ash022]

Basic electrical theory. Half the impedance (vs 8 ohms) means twice the current needs to flow in order to deliver the same amount of power. It's not that they require high current "from a valve amp" per se, just they require high current in general.

Right, with you there. I seem to recall from somewhere valve amps like a bit of resistance in their speakers. Indeed my valves warranted being setup for lower ohms.

[myminirocks]

This looks nice??

http://nadelectronics.com/products/h...ated-Amplifier

[Hydrology]

That NAD would be my pick over the Cambridge 650A. Combined with the Elacs the Cambridge may sound almost too clinical, but it depends on the type of sound you like.

[myminirocks]

That NAD would be my pick over the Cambridge 650A. Combined with the Elacs the Cambridge may sound almost too clinical, but it depends on the type of sound you like.

Yeah it seem that NAD are known for a clean low end sound. Knowing how detailed these elacs are I don't imagine there will be much of a worry of it sounding a bit muddy becaus ethe combo of a bright speaker with a bassy amp might work well.

Oh well, it's on my list along with the CA 650A.

[Ash022]

Yeah it seem that NAD are known for a clean low end sound. Knowing how detailed these elacs are I don't imagine there will be much of a worry of it sounding a bit muddy becaus ethe combo of a bright speaker with a bassy amp might work well.

Oh well, it's on my list along with the CA 650A.

We can sell you a CA 650A significantly discounted for an elac owners in need, if its your cup of tea. I am not sure about advertising here, being new, however you can email me off list if interested, and I'll send you the link.

[myminirocks]

We can sell you a CA 650A significantly discounted for an elac owners in need, if its your cup of tea. I am not sure about advertising here, being new, however you can email me off list if interested, and I'll send you the link.

Hey Ash, you're in Brisbane aren't you? I meant to ask from one of your other posts regarding checking with one of your techy's, what do you do exactly?

As far as buying, I kinda have to get the amp from VideoPro (unfortunately) because I have a gift voucher there I need to use.

Thx for the offer though!

cheers

[Ash022]

Yes in Brisbane. I am in the process of bringing Naquadria amplifiers to Brisbane and setting up a web site for that. We sell a few quality brands, Cambridge Audio, Primare, Elac, decent cables and interconnects.

Naquadria amps are made in Canberra by Bill Crampton. Over the years, I have owned a fair bit of Bill's gear, and its always been great. My over the top valves were built by Bill, I had a smaller pair before that, and upgraded to the big valves.

In the last five years however he has moved more into fet amps, they are considerably cheaper and really perform.

google "Naquadria Brisbane".

[rantan]

That NAD would be my pick over the Cambridge 650A. Combined with the Elacs the Cambridge may sound almost too clinical, but it depends on the type of sound you like.

The Elacs are are good speaker, very detailed and excellent retrieval of micro dynamics, but they are NOT a good match for the Cambridge 650A.
It would be hugely impressive for 5 minutes but listening fatigue would set in rapidly and with a vengeance.
In the more mainstream, I would be partnering them with something like a Denon or Marantz, both of whom do still make reasonable 2 channel amplifiers. Arcam and Creek would also work well.