Guest atilsley Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Yeeks. The size is starting to freak me out...but it's going to look and sound great. Will accommodate the 15-inch GOTO bass driver, or Altec 416 etc. Run in a pair, I'm aiming for a flat response to 35Hz...up to 250Hz. With one staclked on each other (4 in total), bass response is flat to 30Hz. I'm targeting the uber-expensive Avantgarde's with this project. (Then again, GOTO aren't exactly your Harvey Norman purchase either...!) The idea for this horn spawned from my desire to build the massive Jensen Imperial. US GOTO rep, Ming Su, then took the design further. I am now working with Ming. See pic of 3D image of the Jensen...shown lying on its side. Fun project....... Andrew Edited December 24, 2009 by atilsley Add content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick35 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 GORGEOUS! ANDREW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Andrew, stunning looking project you have there. I have never heard a pair of horn subwoofers, and I wish I could come and visit so that I can have a listen!!! Can I ask what the strengths and weaknesses are, compared to a "normal" sealed box subwoofer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuyen Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 wow. just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Keith, others...thanks. The main strength of the horn sub is its musicality. It's probably an poor word to use to describe somehting, but I use the grumbly. The sound 'grumbles' through the horn to give a very real, rich sound. If you hear a very low organ note, it is not a refined note...it is 'rough' and it sort of rumbles. The horn sub replicates this. Also, by aiming at making the response flat, it means you get tru bass volume rather than falsely amplified bass in some other systems. There's a big difference to tru flat low bass, vs simply louder bass. Of course, having the efficiency around 98-100dB, means you can use lovely quality valve and Class A SS gear to run your speakers. I'm a valve fan.... The Jensen's would have offered an even lower bass response...but it would be like having two fridges in your loungeroom! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Thanks A, so how heavy is that thing, and how much does it cost? Really have to schedule a visit next time i'm in NSW ... are you in Sydney or somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Keith, depending on MDF or ply finish, a pair would be around 6K up to sanding stage. Then allow a little extra for staining/polishing etc. GOTO drivers are pricey...8-9K/unit...but a pair of quality Altec's can be had for around 1k-1.5k. Don't know if you've seen any of the drivers/cabinets from a gent in Germany, Kilimanjaro? The guy's a mad Altec VOTT fan...and designs/builds lovely cabinets and drivers. I love his 15-inch Field Coil Altecs....stunning. Saw this on Ebay the other day. (Help! I need mroe cash...) My cabs are a pilot version for Ming Su, the US GOTO rep. Ming also picked up my Carfrae's and he's going to mod them to fit his smaller GOTO drivers to take to market. Interesting approach. I demo'd the 8-inch GOTO recently in my cabinet and it was very detailed and rich. Lovely. I have a pair of 15-inch Tannoy HPD Royals...for fun, I might pop those in the GOTO cabinets to see how it goes. I'm in Sydney, BTW. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 That's a really good looking grumbler A! What's the veneer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hoop Pine...which looks pretty smart. I've tended to use Kauri in the past...but this looks smoother and more yellowy vs golden/honey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) That's a really good looking grumbler A! What's the veneer? B72, I think you'll find (could be wrong) that the image is a REMARKABLY good computer generated image. http://www.briggs.com.au/veneer.php shows ebony as close, to the finished unit, but I also remember seeing a similar veneer on Lansing Heritage...must see PS: Andrew Congratulations on the construction quality. Best JA Edited December 22, 2009 by JA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Yes...computer image...as I said earlier...but I think I called it a 3D image.... In that image, I spec'd Zebrano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Andrew, as usual your craftsmanship is 1st rate. Well done. Are you pairing these with some of your earlier full-rangers, with a 250Hz crossover ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Just a bass unit pair at the moment...Ming will pair them with GOTO uppers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Good Vibe Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Very nice indeed good 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The main strength of the horn sub is its musicality. It's probably an poor word to use to describe somehting, but I use the grumbly. The sound 'grumbles' through the horn to give a very real, rich sound. If you hear a very low organ note, it is not a refined note...it is 'rough' and it sort of rumbles. The horn sub replicates this. hi andrew, I have heard something that reminds me of this.. low notes do not appear as just a dull rumble, but you get the impression of being able to hear every cycle individually.. like they were each individually crafted. I think it's got something to do with efficiency as the other system that does this I have heard also has efficient bass reproduction. the SET amps make them sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Andrew, I have been lucky enough to stand next to a pipe organist once. Literally a few feet away from the keyboard. The sound of that instrument was unforgettable - not only was it loud and overwhelming, the bass was gutteral and rich in a way I have never experienced in a hi-fi system. I think kye's description finally sealed in for me what I thought you were talking about, but wasn't sure of - "as if each cycle was individually crafted". I can hear the exact same thing with my horns, although those are at a higher frequency. Now i'm even more curious to hear your subs! How heavy did you say they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Just a bass unit pair at the moment...Ming will pair them with GOTO uppers.... Very nice, Can't wait to hear how they are compared to the Avantgarde's. May need to get a pair of these :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Run in a pair, I'm aiming for a flat response to 35Hz...up to 250Hz. With one staclked on each other (4 in total), bass response is flat to 30Hz. I'm targeting the uber-expensive Avantgarde's with this project. Andrew Hi Andrew, lovely looking ... but, phew, expensive! And what's the point if you're saying you'll get flat to 35Hz ... shirley, flat to 25Hz (at least ) is the name of the game? Particularly if you like organ music. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Andyr, you may be right but if it was truly flat to 35 then with a shallow roll-off, I bet that would exceed many that claim "flat to 25Hz". Just guessing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Andyr, you may be right but if it was truly flat to 35 then with a shallow roll-off, I bet that would exceed many that claim "flat to 25Hz". Just guessing.... True, Nigel. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Kye wrote - "I have heard something that reminds me of this.. low notes do not appear as just a dull rumble, but you get the impression of being able to hear every cycle individually.. like they were each individually crafted." Yes...this is what I was trying to describe...thanks Kye. The 'rumble' description sort of explains how the notes are individually articulated. I didn't mention earlier, but with this sort of horn, you can use very efficient drivers...which means speed/accuracy of low notes. This is very hard to achieve using a conventional ported or sealed box, with high excursion drivers. There's no mistaking the difference between a sound that's 'free' vs constrained/wooly/muffled in a normal box. Again, difficult to describe, but I say the sound is airy (normally a word I'd use when talking about tweeters!), fast and with impact. It then means the overall sound is musical vs 'home theatre-ish.' (To see what I mean, just do a little searching around Altec, Voice-of-the-Theatre, Jensen Imperial etc. Almost always, you will hear people say that these speakers 'did it.') On the frequency range....I hear what people are saying. 30/35Hz is 'moderate' when it comes to quotes......but I defy most listeners to show me really musical systems that are flat below these regions. I can artificially lift the bass response by eq'ing a conventional box/sub, but you'll still end up with a certain constrained type of sound. It's important to separate the 'thump/thud' of a HT application with the musicality of what we're talking about here. Please don't get me wrong....I recognise in certain apps a massive HT sub will deliver powerful bass down low (eg the big Velodyne's etc)...but it's the different TYPE of sound that's being discussed/promoted. It would be great to compare a top-spec Velodyne/Rel/SVC with a horn sub...two different beasts. (VAF are onto something with their horn sub....) (BTW, I've got a 5m tapped horn sub that's tuned to 18Hz.....when you run a 600-watt amp with it, the house moves. Unpleasant, but fun...) With the GOTO, you have the 'Lowther' speed, mached with a truely massive/low/musical experience. On the question of expense - well that is quite relative, isn't it? A huge sub built in all ply,furniture-grade finish, custom built for...what...6K? (plus drivers)....compared to Avantgarde's 60-70K unit....? This will always be a project for a select [lucky!] few.... Thanks for your feedback and encouragement, BTW. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 On the question of expense - well that is quite relative, isn't it? A huge sub built in all ply, furniture-grade finish, custom built for...what...6K? (plus drivers)....compared to Avantgarde's 60-70K unit....? This will always be a project for a select [lucky!] few.... Thanks for your feedback and encouragement, BTW. Andrew True, Andrew - except that real men use at least 2 subs, to load the room optimally! So even more expense! But I would love to be able to hear it. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 True...The sub is always meant to be in pairs....I'm finishing off the second one tomorrow. Ming Su uses 2 units PER CHANNEL....4 in total. This then gives truly amazing performance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atilsley Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Oh, sorry...to clarify...6K per pair (basic cabinets), plus drivers.....(not allowed to be commercial here...sorry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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