269 replies to this topic

[ENIGMA]

G'day guys,

I've down loaded about a gazillion different designs of horn speakers.

Can't decide on which one to build. (my room is 5m x 6m) Something that suites all music & has excellent bass, the more elaborate looking the better.

Can someone tell me what THE must have design is ??? so i can settle on building something!!!

Cheers!

Edited by ENIGMA, 07 March 2010 - 08:17 AM.

[Keith_W]

Do you want a front loaded or back loaded horn?

[kye]

Hi Enigma..

Be careful with a lot of the designs you find on the net - many of them are very old and our knowledge of horn design has come a long way since the early days of horns. Some of these speakers are awful in many regards compared with todays offerings! Things like frequency response and energy storage / resonances etc..
I remember someone writing an article on horns talking about why horns had such a bad reputation in the mainstream audio press.. he said that it was because while a bad speaker sounds bad, "a bad horn DESTROYS MUSIC" .. and some of these early horn designs were bad

perhaps you might also tell us what the main purpose of your design is?
I would recommend a different design for nostalgia than for a pleasant system with wide dynamic range

[ehtcom]

Hi Enigma.
These could be worth a serious look.
http://jasondiyaudio...ers-blh_15.html

I use the Dallas II with Fostex 206e. Very nice with plenty of bass.

I have copy of the plans, though I could only attached one page.


Cheers, Earle.

Attached Files

•  DallasIIdimfv.pdf   9.81K   153 downloads

[ENIGMA]

Do you want a front loaded or back loaded horn?

Hi, The best sounding of the two.

[ENIGMA]

Hi Enigma..

Be careful with a lot of the designs you find on the net - many of them are very old and our knowledge of horn design has come a long way since the early days of horns. Some of these speakers are awful in many regards compared with todays offerings! Things like frequency response and energy storage / resonances etc..
I remember someone writing an article on horns talking about why horns had such a bad reputation in the mainstream audio press.. he said that it was because while a bad speaker sounds bad, "a bad horn DESTROYS MUSIC" .. and some of these early horn designs were bad

perhaps you might also tell us what the main purpose of your design is?
I would recommend a different design for nostalgia than for a pleasant system with wide dynamic range

Reason for posting this is to obtain guidance from you guys whom know more than I on the subject. Purpose of the design a/ create a pair of fabulous sounding speakers, b/ hopefully they look interesting as well.

[ENIGMA]

Hi Enigma.
These could be worth a serious look.
http://jasondiyaudio...ers-blh_15.html

I use the Dallas II with Fostex 206e. Very nice with plenty of bass.

I have copy of the plans, though I could only attached one page.


Cheers, Earle.

Thanks Earle, this is a nice design & the Fostex is also a nice driver. There are also several similar japanses designs similar to the Cain & Cain double ben.

the dallas was on my short list.

Too many choices.

[56oval]

Hello Enigma .
Are you looking at single driver fullrange or multi way horn .
This guys website has plenty of info to build a multi way ,and hes very helpful like most diyers . http://www.volvotret.../new_system.htm
If looking at fullranger's these designs are well thought out.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/

Cheers.

[ehtcom]

Thanks Earle, this is a nice design & the Fostex is also a nice driver. There are also several similar japanses designs similar to the Cain & Cain double ben.

the dallas was on my short list.

Too many choices.

Hi Enigma.
I notice you are based in Melbourne.
You are welcome to come down for a listen to mine anytime.
I'm in Tootgarook, just past Rosebud.

Cheers, Earle.

[wixy]

I think most importantly at this stage, what is your budget ENIGMA?

[kye]

Hello Enigma .
Are you looking at single driver fullrange or multi way horn .
This guys website has plenty of info to build a multi way ,and hes very helpful like most diyers . http://www.volvotret.../new_system.htm
If looking at fullranger's these designs are well thought out.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/

I would second these sources - both are from the 'new' school of design.

Do you want high efficiency from the horns?
The designs from Planet10 are normally of average efficiency, whereas the front-loaded designs will give you the horn boost across the working range.

[ENIGMA]

I would second these sources - both are from the 'new' school of design.

Do you want high efficiency from the horns?
The designs from Planet10 are normally of average efficiency, whereas the front-loaded designs will give you the horn boost across the working range.

Both designs are good, the volvotreter site is very informative & well presented. The designs appear quite effective.

I like the idea of front loaded & efficient.

[ENIGMA]

I think most importantly at this stage, what is your budget ENIGMA?

I can't go crazy on compression drivers, as far as the actual horns (construction) go, budget is not an issue.

[kye]

if you're wanting a pre-made flare for a front-loaded horn then http://www.azurahorn.com/ are located in Perth and appear to offer good products.
Couple one of these to a volvotreter style bass modules and subs and you would have a pretty dynamic system!

one thing to be aware of with front loaded horns is that you need a larger room so you can sit further away from the speakers. this is because the drivers acoustic centres are separated from each other vertically more than normal designs so it takes a greater distance for the drivers sound to integrate into a single coherent waveform.

[ENIGMA]

Hi Guys, it has been a while but i have been busy assessing the information provided by all you wonderfull people.

Thanks for the advice, big thanks to 56 Oval, A9X & Aslan for some invaluable PM's. I now have a much better understanding of horn design and the pros/cons associated.

The conclusion, well it appears a single driver full range horn design is not really the right way to go for my tastes. Having said that, i have a 15" drivers, some mids and horn tweeters that need a home and will get one more likely next year.

The design; La Scala for the 15" (ported) with an azura like horn on top for the mids. This design suites the characteristics i was looking for, it is easy to build so if i do get time, i will do it sooner than later.

Where i'm heading you might wonder as far as what my real preference is? Well this exercise has made me realise that a vertical array of drivers in a cabinet that has some unique characteristics is the way to go for me.

Plus, i'm building a pair of monoblocks to change the whole character of my system.

Stay tuned for a poor man's Nautilus design and a pair of 833a SET monoblocks.

It will be a while before i can show you some progress on these, but work has started (i've got my hands full at the moment).

These will be featured in their own new threads when appropriate for continuity.

Cheers.

Edited by ENIGMA, 27 February 2009 - 09:28 PM.

[kye]

good luck with the project enigma, and I look forward to pics and a write-up soon!

[A9X]

The design; La Scala for the 15" (ported) with an azura like horn on top for the mids. This design suites the characteristics i was looking for, it is easy to build so if i do get time, i will do it sooner than later.

Did I send you the LS drawings?

Where i'm heading you might wonder as far as what my real preference is? Well this exercise has made me realise that a vertical array of drivers in a cabinet that has some unique characteristics is the way to go for me.

Not a line array I hope.

[56oval]

Hi Enig
http://www.stereo.ne...=1&d=1235772898

Cheers

Attached Files

•  Macondo6_1.jpg   47.43K   705 downloads

[A9X]

Romy has some interesting ideas, but it's very hard to integrate such large horns.

[56oval]

Romy has some interesting ideas, but it's very hard to integrate such large horns.

Hi A9X
Have you seen his mini speaker his building .

Cheers

[56oval]

Hi Enig
A couple of friends have these I have the bass section at a mates place but not game enough to bring them home .Their using them with the multi cells and the Azura horns



Cheers

[A9X]

Hi A9X
Have you seen his mini speaker his building .

Cheers

Is that the MiniMe? I've just seen and glanced at the thread (I'll read it all later) but I wonder why he's gone to all that effort and not even bothered to rebate the drivers.

Horn porn for Enigma; ported double LS bass with Oris 200 top.
A single LS bottom with an Azura 160 and a WB or coax in there would have a lot of potential.

Attached Files

•  Vented LS with Oris.jpg   67.11K   149 downloads
•  ls_bass_mod.jpg   45.95K   124 downloads

[ENIGMA]

Did I send you the LS drawings?

Not a line array I hope.

Hi A9x, thanks for the details. Not line array, i prob should not have described it that way.

There's no end to the possibilities, lots of amazing designs out there.

Edited by ENIGMA, 28 February 2009 - 09:11 AM.

[theophile]

Hi A9x, thanks for the details. Not line array, i prob should not have described it that way.

There's no end to the possibilities, lots of amazing designs out there.

ENIGMA,
I saw this thread when I was Googling something else.So I thought I'd throw-in what I have in mind for an upcoming project that I will implement within the next year.

I have been using Altec 846A Valencia speakers since December 2002.I am very happy with them.I put this(largely)down to tne compression driver/horn combination which in these speakers operate from 800Hz and above.

Very soon after acquiring the Valencias,I diy converted them to active configuration by bypassing the internal passive crossover in favour of an external active crossover.The unit I am currently using for this purpose is the Accuphase F-25,a very well regarded component.

I have long wanted to extend the perceived virtues of compression drivers/horns to a lower frequency point.To this end,I have been acquiring components to eventually assemble a multi-way system.I plan to utilise the woofers already situated in my Altec Valencias.I will be leaving the Altec 416Z woofers in situ within the Valencia cabinets.Instead of crossing them over at(the stock frequency of)800Hz,I intend to cross the Valencias' 416Z woofers over at 380 Hz,to a pair of Altec 288-8K compression drivers.The horn I intend using with the 288s is an Azura horn.

The Altec 288s I intend to cover the frequency band of 380 Hz to 5000Hz.This is a very critical portion of the frequency spectrum.To be able to avoid a crossover point within this region is to avoid possible phase shifts and especially to avoid or at least minimise discrepencies in the dispersion patterns.I will be using a Great Plains Audio GPA 902 compression driver for the frequency spectrum from 5000Hz and upwards,again with an Azura horn.

I also have acquired a pair of Altec 411 subwoofers in two separate cabinets.These will supplement the bottom-end response of the 416Z woofers by crossing-over below 70 Hz.

This proposed four-way speaker will be actively driven by four monoblock amps(three pairs of Kenwood L-06Ms driving the Altec 416Zs,the Altec 288s and the GPA 902s ,plus a pair of Kenwood L-08Ms devoted exclusively to the Altec 411 subwoofers).

I still have to purchase the two Azura horns,plus acquire a pair of diaphragms for the Altec 288 compression drivers,but other than that I already have all the components to procede with this project.Thus my conviction that I will have this project operating before the end of 2010.

I have listened to systems over the last couple of years comprising in one instance an Ayre digital player,ASL tube preamp,Krell CAST poweramp and JM Lab Alto Utopia BE speakers.In the second instance the system was TOTL Electrocompaniet CD player,Electrocompaniet preamp,Electrocompaniet Nemo monoblock poweramps and B&W 802D speakers.In both instances the systems were coupled with a livery of extemely high priced interconnects and speaker cables,audiophile power conditioners and stands etc.

In neither case of hearing those two High-End systems did I prefer them to what I am listening to at home.At the audition of the system containing the JM Lab speakers,I was accompanied by a friend who had heard a previous incarnation(vastly inferior to what I have now)of my system.After listening to the JM Lab system,he spontaneously commented to me that he much preferred my system.This experience was repeated when I listened to group of systems owned by another audiophile I know.His systems contain similarly well reviewed components which I won't name in case he is a member here.I found his systems spectacularly uninvolving,bland and lifeless.

I feel that a well assembled,well balanced compression driver/horm system conveys a dynamic freedom which is difficult to convey with high powered amp and lower sensitivity non compression driver/horn systems.

If it weren't so difficult(because of size and expense considerations) to extend compressiondriver/horn sound down into the lower bass regions,I'd opt for a totally compression driver/horn system.

[Dr Good Vibe]

E just go a panel

Attached Files

•  Big Boy.jpg   36.41K   70 downloads

[theophile]

E just go a panel

Glad Wrap.That don't sound that glad at all.

[56oval]

Enig's already got a cupboard full of drivers and ribbons .

Cheers

[Dr Good Vibe]

Glad Wrap.That don't sound that glad at all.

That's right theophile you have been wrapping your play lunch in the wrong stuff expencive lesson
. But we are all human and make mistakes yours just happens to be a big one

[theophile]

That's right theophile you have been wrapping your play lunch in the wrong stuff expencive lesson
. But we are all human and make mistakes yours just happens to be a big one

I'll live with it.

[theophile]

Despite the presence of a troll posting Glad Wrap on a diy horn thread,I thought I'd link this:

http://www.realhorns.de/

No Glad(sad)Wrap here.

[Dr Good Vibe]

Ar must be sun stroke, sorry that your sad you might not understand it was a comment to a friend and not ment to upset our feelings. SORRY

[theophile]

Quote below corrected for spelling mistakes:

Ar must be sun stroke, sorry that you're sad.You might not understand it was a comment to a friend and not meant to upset our feelings. SORRY

Sun stroke.

That makes sense

Here's a link which truly reeks of Good Vibes:

http://www.audioasyl.../18/188439.html

[Dr Good Vibe]

Well your part way there horn loaded ESL ? theo

Edited by Dr Good Vibe, 27 January 2010 - 02:16 PM.

[theophile]

Not interested in 'stats.

I prefer transducers which don't restrict dynamic range or fail to resolve the lowest level of low level detail.

That rules-out 'stats completely as a category of interest.

[ehtcom]

Not interested in 'stats.

I prefer transducers which don't restrict dynamic range or fail to resolve the lowest level of low level detail.

That rules-out 'stats completely as a category of interest.

Hope Nigel doesn't see this.

[ENIGMA]

It's been a while since i saw this thread.

No trolls here, DGV is just having a bit of fun, did you see his big glad wrap dispenser he made?

I've heard a few horn systems now, inc altec and they are fantastic. You need to really know what you are doing with a horn system and as i have virtually no experience in horn speakers, i have opted to go for something else.

I have purchased ribbon tweeters and other speakers, will be making conventional speaker boxes as it s more simpler for me in terms of getting them to work correctly with professional help.

Mind you, i was thinking of making a pair of horns the other day.......

[56oval]

It's been a while since i saw this thread.

No trolls here, DGV is just having a bit of fun, did you see his big glad wrap dispenser he made?

I've heard a few horn systems now, inc altec and they are fantastic. You need to really know what you are doing with a horn system and as i have virtually no experience in horn speakers, i have opted to go for something else.

I have purchased ribbon tweeters and other speakers, will be making conventional speaker boxes as it s more simpler for me in terms of getting them to work correctly with professional help.

Mind you, i was thinking of making a pair of horns the other day.......

I know where you can get a pair of front loaded bass horns .

Cheers

[Dr Good Vibe]

Don't mind E he’s still doing corrections, the Beveridge maybe the nicest thing he’s done all day.

[56oval]

Don't mind E he’s still doing corrections, the Beveridge maybe the nicest thing he’s done all day.

If it looks like , sounds like and post like ,it must be a troll .

Cheers

[ENIGMA]

I know where you can get a pair of front loaded bass horns .

Cheers

Don't start that again....

If you can find the other parts to go with it, i might be tempted.

[coemaudio]

Hey Enigma,

I would recommend the Fostex designed box for the FE126 fullrange driver. A friend built me a pair a while ago and I love them

http://coemaudio.com...orn/horns23.JPG
http://coemaudio.com...orn/horns18.JPG
http://coemaudio.com...orn/horns14.JPG

And this is my mate's build page:
http://www.greenie51...6e_rebuild.html

[Dr Good Vibe]

E, I have a pair of these somewhere if I can find them I'll let you know. Could be a place to start.

[atilsley]

Re Azura...I spoke with the owner mid-late last year and he said he wasn't building them due to some supplier issues. Might be worth checking that.

I've started to look into making similar horns, using a pre-cast mould and then fibre-glass or other resin product. The interest for me is to supply the for GOTO clients in SE Asia, but could be used for anything. Initially, I'm looking at the bigger 160Hz horn, and the smaller 350Hz one.

Andrew

[56oval]

Morning Enig
http://www.volvotret.../new_system.htm

Which Focal bass driver are you going to use .

Cheers

[56oval]

Re Azura...I spoke with the owner mid-late last year and he said he wasn't building them due to some supplier issues. Might be worth checking that.

I've started to look into making similar horns, using a pre-cast mould and then fibre-glass or other resin product. The interest for me is to supply the for GOTO clients in SE Asia, but could be used for anything. Initially, I'm looking at the bigger 160Hz horn, and the smaller 350Hz one.

Andrew

Hi Andrew

Are you going to use Martins horn profiles .

Cheers