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Integrated Amps: An Addicts Guide.


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An addicts guide to integrated amps.

Last year, I went a bit nuts, I was interested in finding out if the amps that were freely available over the net from China, and from ebay, for a fairly reasonable price were actually a worthwhile buy. Could these little bargain basement pieces of gear play in the big leagues? Or at least in the same league as the mainstream brands? The results were pretty surprising, price is in no way directly proportional to quality in the audio field. The contestants are a pretty mixed bunch, I just bought whatever I could get my hands on provided it was available at a steep discount to RRP. Unfortunately for me this project turned into a bit of an obsession and I now buy an amp every month or so and add it to my list. I wrote most of this up on DTV forums a while back, this is an updated version as of May 2012. I have started with the amps I disliked the most at the top, remember this is just my opinion of the amps performance on my system in my room so this is far from a complete evaluation of each amps potential in every situation. However if you happen to own one of the amps listed and are wondering what one of the other amps listed might sound like on your system then you may be able to gain a little insight from reading on.

Tonewinner AD-3.

A massive amp that is so heavy you would swear it was made from recycled battleships. No extras on it, with one exception, it just has inputs for 3 sources plus balanced in. One massive 700VA toroidal transformer and a not-very-well-put-together remote to control volume and input selection. One thing this amp does have going for it is the ability to switch from class A (40W) to class AB (150W), however it always starts in A, you have to change it to AB every time you turn it on. In class A it puts out a lot of heat (not much of a surprise) in AB it is not too bad for heat. Available via china for $1200-1300 AUD plus postage. Tonewinner are the OEM for Emotiva, though I am not sure that means anything when talking about their own models.

Sound.

Very deep, though not very clean, bass and lots of it. A great home theatre amp in either A or AB but not that good with music. It has a very deep and dark sound stage that only just allows the high and mid frequencies to escape from it. I had high hopes for this amp but it did not meet any of them. All of the other amps I listened to sounded so much better than this amp for music.

I tried running the Tonewinner through my old speakers, Accusound Delta 895’s, and it sounded much better and was actually fairly involving in its performance. Through my Osborns it was deep, bassy and a bit rough

Consonance C1.

My standard listening amp for about 5 years, a nice simple integrated that garnered several good reviews when it came out, 3 models old now but about $1500 AUD when new. A 120W rated amp though many people feel it is actually closer to 150W.

Sound.

The C1 is head and shoulders above the Tonewinner in the area of music, about the same for home theatre, it still has a deep and dark sound stage (much smoother and quieter in its background than the Tonewinner) but it actually lets the high and mid frequencies out to play. Very nice bass performance but lacking in the mids and highs when compared to most of the other amps on offer. Does not let the edge of electric guitar come through well enough imo but in most aspects it is a well made amp that will play rock and metal fairly well but is not going to be anyones choice for classical listening. I was surprised when it ranked so low on my list, I had really enjoyed listening to it for all these years.

Hlly T-90

A tripath amp available over the net from china for about $300 (plus postage). Rated at 90W into 4ohms (or 40W into 8 ohms, I would call this a 40W amp, but then I am not in marketing) it would seem to be a high output version of the amps that so many people have been raving about for the last decade or so. It only has one input and no remote but so what, at the price and with the reputation I am expecting a very nice audition.

Sound.

Nice highs, good mids and no bass whatsoever. I was very disappointed with this amp, it may be good for classical listening and female vocals but it will never work with rock, pop or metal. I found I just could not listen to a performance which completely left out the bass segment of any music (and I have never thought of myself as that much of a bass fan). I cannot see what all the hype was about.

Krell KAV 300IL

With the name and rep associated with Krell I expect this amp to kick the butt of everything I compared it to. With 200W on tap it is the most powerful of the entire group, and at circa $5000 new it jolly well should be too. Purchased over ebay for $2300 AUD.

Sound.

Almost bland, very cool and clear but it seems to underemphasize everything to the point where the music loses any character. The music just does not grab the listener at all. Bass is rather thin, heaps of power but it doesn’t seem to actually use it. Smoothes off the edge of electric guitars, no real enjoyment to be had from this amp. The sound does improve as the volume in increased but you just can’t run it that loud for everyday use. I have heard that some owners have changed the sound of this amp by replacing the fuses in the speaker lines, I found very little difference when I replaced them. The Krell is another amp that performed in a much more satisfying manner when used with my Accusounds, I came to the conclusion that it is meant to be used with speakers that are harder to drive and less efficient than mine, though I can’t prove that.

Onkyo A9555

This is the point where I really start enjoying myself. One thing I have to mention here is that the build quality on the Onkyo is pretty shocking, the bass and treble control knobs point to 11:30 rather than 12:00 when in neutral and the chassis just feels thin and weak compared to every other amp listed. Also the selection and volume knobs have a “loose†feel to their movement, none of this affects the sound but it really did stand out to me as proof that ‘made in Japan’ does not seem to mean all that it once did.

Sound.

The Onkyo puts on a very nice performance, it is engaging and pleasant to listen to. It has bass and mids that, while they are not quite as good as the Perreaux SX25i or the

Burson, are not exactly lacking. The highs are a little airy, maybe a bit too airy for some but not for me. The bass is a little underemphasized when compared to the highs and mids and the amp has a slightly warm and airy sound throughout (which I believe is the signature Onkyo sound). There is nothing in the Onkyo’s performance that offends, it just doesn’t sound quite as good as some others. Retails for about $1000 AUD, could be had for $700-800 over ebay.

Perreaux E160i

I had been hunting for another Perreaux after I heard the SX25i as I thought rather highly of it and wanted to hear an amp that was more powerful and designed by the same company. The result was a little disappointing but mostly informative.

Sound.

The E160i is not as detailed as its little brother but it has a very addictive rhythm, so addictive that I was tapping my foot even as I was writing down negative comments about it. No other amp I have heard has been as catchy as this one, but that just didn’t ingratiate me to it as much as it might. It is not a bad amp, it is a rather nice amp but it does not have the level of detail that I have heard out of the amps listed below. It also seemed to have less bass than most, which is a bit of a head scratcher when it is listed at 160 Watts.

Marantz KI Pearl Lite

I was expecting big things from the Marantz, and it only disappointed slightly. A very nice unit with as much connectivity as you would ever need (as do the Onkyo and the Krell). The speaker binding post ends were difficult to remove (for banana plugs) and I had to screw the posts completely open and then pop them from the inside with a jewelry screwdriver.

Sound.

A lighter touch than the Onkyo with just as engaging a soundstage. I listened to the Lite for a long time, over a week and as I listened I started to notice a warmth to the sound in the mids and highs. Far less obvious than the Onkyo and yet somehow far less pleasant. Once I had noticed this warm sound I could not ignore it and it started to drive me crazy. I have rated the Marantz better than the Onkyo due to its slightly better performance in the highs and mids but if I had to go back to one of them it would be the Onkyo. The bass was also noticeably better than the Onkyo. A RRP of $2400 AUD this amp can be had over ebay for $1300. I have concluded that the Marantz sound is not for me.

Thule Spirit 100A

I have very little time with the Thule so it may have rated a little better or worse if I had more time to evaluated it but I didn’t. My impression of the Thule was that of a more detailed and controlled Consonance C1. A very dark soundstage with a quiet background. A nice piece of gear without much in the way of personality to color the sound.

Cambridge 840a V2

A warmer, more powerful version of the Onkyo 9555 (well that is what it sounds like anyway). It also has a rich, smooth soundstage that is very pleasant to listen to. This amp has just been superceded by the 850 and can be bought over ebay for about half of its RRP of $2000. I could see vinyl lovers choosing this amp for their cd system.

Dussun V6i

An amp that just oozes power. It may have 150W on tap but it sounds like 250W and that power is obvious right from about 0.2 on the volume dial. What’s that Spinal Tap, your amp goes to 11, well this one goes to 12! I’m not kidding either, the volume dial is marked from 0 to 12, I never took it above 3. Some may argue that this amp should not rate this well, to them I say, you need to experience the performance for yourself.

Sound.

This amp does not display a soundstage in front of you, it blasts a sound stage out around you, a very forward amp that sounds a bit edgy. It displays a fairly light touch when necessary but in general it just blasts the music out to you and makes you love every second of it. A great amp to test, tons of fun, but I’m not sure I could live with it full time. I would definitely give it a try though. Prices vary wildly but it can generally be had for under $1000 AUD over ebay. Eastwood Hifi offer them for slightly more but you would be guaranteed of getting a 240V version and having a valid warrenty.

I don’t usually mod amps but his one is so simple that I have to make mention of it. The Dussun pre and power sections are not connected inside the case, they both have rca plugs in the back of the amp, joined by jumpers. If the stock jumpers are removed and replaced with a standard interconnect (at a cost of $25 or so) then the performance of the amp can be improved noticeably. That edge to the sound drops away, it changes from a very forward amp to a slightly forward amp and the soundstage smooths out and separates instruments much more clearly. With the stock jumpers I found that the Dussun sounded slightly more preferable than the Cambridge (I was comparing them directly as they were both enhanced class A amps), with IC’s replacing the jumpers the Dussun left the Cambridge for dead.

Hlly M1 Gainclone

This tiny little amp is a standout star, no remote and only one input but by far the cheapest amp I have ever owned at just $165 AUD. It is advertised as having 40W (into 4 ohms) but into 8 ohms it is 25W. And it sounds just brilliant, but I am getting ahead of myself.

Sound.

Just brilliant. Beautiful highs and mids and just a tiny bit lacking on the bass. The 25W on tap ran my floorstanders up to the point where the roof shook. This is the quality of sound I had hoped for from the tripath amp. However my floorstanders are 93db and a min of 5.8ohms, I have tried this amp on a pair of bookshelfs that were 88db and nominal 4ohms and it struggled hard. If you have high efficiency speakers then a cheap gainclone amp is simply something you must try, if you don’t then cross it off your wishlist.

Perreaux SX25i

A great little miniature integrated amp, beats out the Hlly on both looks and build quality but is also way ahead on price. $1200 RRP, it can be found on ebay (very rarely) for $600 to $800.

Sound.

Even better than the Hlly, but not by much. It took 2 days of on-again off-again comparison for me to reach a decision that the Perreaux was definitely better so there isn’t a lot in it but yes, it is better on detail. I have heard that the NuForce Icons are meant to be better again, difficult to believe when the Perreaux is this good.

Burson PI-160

The best integrated amp I have ever heard. By the time I had got hold of all these other amps I realized I had China and Japan heavily represented and the USA and New Zealand slightly less so but no Australian amp, I was also a bit short on cash. The 160 series is fairly new and so there are no second hand examples to be had but when I emailed the Burson fellows and asked if there were any demo amps available they kindly offered me one that had just returned from the Singapore Audio Show at a very reasonable discount. Thank you gents, your gear absolutely rocks! The Burson is a minimalist amp with only 3 inputs and a volume control so it will not suit everyones needs but it sounds just superb. 70W per channel and $2300 AUD.

Sound.

Clean extended highs with just the right amount of air, crisp mids and vocals and just the right amount of bass which is controlled with a velvet glove covering an iron fist. The bass control and the airy highs are the only distinct advantages it has over the Perreaux, that and the extra watts of course but advantages they most certainly are.

Accessories

For those interested in the hardware involved, the speakers used are Osborn Eclipses fed through Osborn Datalink cables. The cd player used (generally) is a modified CD120 linear (and occasionally a Halcro EC800, depending on mood) with a low jitter clock installed and a modified output stage that feeds the signal direct from the DAC’s. The listening room is an old cold room (yes, a cold room, and yes, it still seems a bit strange to me sometimes too) with a few hundred bucks worth of acoustic foam stuck to the walls, 2 large, soft mats on the floor and a cloth upholstered recliner to sit in. It measures 3500 by 5500 by about 2200mm high. The room isn’t perfect but according to a system set up disc and the “clap†test it is pretty good for sound staging and reverb.

I still have 2 amps on hand that I have not finished evaluating yet, one Rotel RA1520 (which sounds very good, definitely a top 5 competitor) and an old Lynx Nebula that I seem to keep forgetting about. I’ll post updates as they become available and would appreciate it if any other SNA’ers out there have an opinion on an amp listed would post their opinions as well.

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Great write up Cafad.

I have a very short attention span but read every word of your post.

On your list I have heard the Krell KAV 300iL, both Perreaux's, Cambridge 840a V2 and Dussan albeit very briefly.

I used to own a Krell KAV pre and power combo many years ago so your comments on the KAV 300iL do not in the least surprise me. No emotion was transferred from the recording one bit when I heard them connected to B&W 805D speakers which are no slouch.

The Cambridge 840a I found sounded very good. In fact I would take any day over the Krell. My thoughts exactly reflected yours as well.

For me the Perreaux E160i, although well endowed, just lacked some midrange body and bottom end authority as you said. Not an amp I could live with for a long time.

The Dussan was all show to me and wore off after 5 minutes. Enough said.

Finally the tiny Perreaux Sillhouette SX25i, which I owned for the good part of a year, is amongst one of my favorite integrated amps regardless of price. Simplicity at its best in sound and design. Regrettably sold it for some reason.

Amps I currently have that I am now eager to pull out, in light of your great review, are a Redgum RGi60 and Naim Nait 5i2. Keen to hear how they sound against my Vitus RI-100 and soon to arrive Leben CS600 :cool:

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Guest Willow

That's a swag of amps there Cafad , the bug has bitten you well and truly , crazy hobby.

Nice little write up too.

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Hi Willow, yeah, the bug has not only bitten me but it keeps coming back for more. Good to hear from a widely listened SNA'er like yourself vmhf, even better to hear you agree with my opinions on several pieces (though that isn't necessary, obviously). Redgum is on my "target of oportunity" list, hopefully I'll be adding one soon, if you could give me a heads up on what to expect I'd appreciate it, especially since we seem to be on the same page in terms of "sonic taste".

I am working on the Rotel RA1520 at the moment and it is very, very good, I recommend you try one if you can.

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Thanks mate, glad you liked it.

I think I have had enough time to evaluate the Rotel now so, here goes.

In general the Rotel is a very capable amp, nice tight bass, good mid range and just a slight hint of a metalic sound in the highs. It did not start out that way though, it really needed 50 hours on it before the metallic gratting ringing sound settled out and the bass certainly deepened in that time as well. Well built and only gets a little warm when driven reasonably hard. The entire frequency range is presented in a very tight manner though, and just a little too bright for my liking. I think it would do better if used to drive speakers without a metal dome tweeter, that might damp down the brightness. A very good amp, but not quite as good as I first expected it to be, I think it will rate between the Dussun and the gainclone on my list of preference.

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How do I rate the Sonneteer Campion?

It is a great little amp, very lively and fluid in the mid range with nice smooth highs. Great for vocals and wind and stringed instruments but it doesn't have much in the bottom end. I like nice deep, tight bass and a lack of it usually brings a frown to my face but this little amp is the little engine that could and that mid range really sucks you in and has you loving every minute of it, it bounces around like the energiser bunny never getting tired, never slowing down and always sounding enticing enough to hold your attention. Not an amp for hard rock or metal but just right for pop, light ballads or R&B (or even C&W, not that I would really know too much about that).

Back to my initial question though, how on earth do I rate it? I have to work off how much I like to listen to it, mark it down a little for the lack of bass... I think in between the Hlly gainclone and the little Perreaux, it is actually that good!

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This Yamaha is a strange beast. I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other about the retro styling or the wood side panels but I am impressed by the size of its capacitors. It has 2 18000uF caps per channel, that's more filtering capacitance than the Dussun V6i! It also has 3 transistor pairs per channel when most of the other amps I have heard recently (rotel, burson) have only 2, and some just one (sonneteer).

I am really trying not to say anything about the sound because to be fair I should give it the same 100 hour burn in that I have given to all my other test subjects, but it is really hard, because it sounds really good, and that is with no run in whatsoever! Oh, why agonize over it, I'm going to write about it anyway.

It has a very even handed sound, not seeming to emphasise any one frequency range over another. Very subtly powerful, it only shows grunt when grunt is what the track calls for and it shows just as much grunt in the mids and highs when needed too. It isn't anywhere near as warm as the Cambridge, it has more of an implied warmth that you don't really hear as much as feel that it is there. Beautiful clear highs and mids with a nice tight bass range that is not as crisp as the Burson but feels just a little bit more full. All in all I am extremely impressed, if it improves with burn in I will almost definitely have a new favourite child amplifier. Watch this space towards the end of the weekend.

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Great write up Cafad, thanks for your efforts and you do have the bug bad don't you!

I like to swap all the time between my two amps to see the differences but I can never quite workout what I'm hearing, with the differences being in the detail and the timbre I guess. I wish I had another pair of speakers to keep experimenting with but I've formed this idea that the Mira3 just sounds better with classical and the few jazz recordings I have and the Redgum just has grunt to burn for any R+B and Techno etc.

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HI again Luc, yeah mate, I do have a few "audio issues" to work through. I'm a bit of a sonic bower bird, I like to keep things that sound different, I generally swap duty amps every 6 weeks or so. Actually that bower bird effect may not just be sonic, I have an EAD Encore 5.1 processor tucked away in a cupboard. It was an absoute bugger to set up it sounded pretty good but I never really managed to get it sounding the way I thought it should. Did I get rid of it though, hell no! That diamond cut faceplate is just too damn pretty to sell.

Yeah, working out what the differences between amps are can be hard work, even with a fair amount of practise. That's only half the job too, it's just as hard coming up with words that explain what those differences are. I used to read reviews and wonder what the heck the reviewer was on about, using words like thick, chocolatey, spacious, etc but now I know just how hard it is to explain a sound. When you find an amp that suits your ears though, any and all effort made in the past suddenly becomes worthwhile.

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Hi Cafad. I will send you my Redgum RGi60 to add to your growing list of integrated amp conquests.

That's if you don't mind the added workload being our new int amp champion!

Cheers.

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That'd be great vmhf, greatly appreciated thank you.

And as for the extra workload, I am more than happy to donate my time to the cause.

Will you need an amp to take its place while it is "on holiday"?

One from the silver pile, perhaps?

post-130663-0-16238600-1339299892_thumb.

Or one from the black stack?

post-130663-0-34709000-1339299934_thumb.

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I would be interested what you thought of my Copland, shame you are so far away. The CSA-14 is a hybrid integrated from Denmark mine is from 1995.

If I had faith in my packing and a spare amp, I send it you way for your listening pleasure.

Rated at 60w into 8 ohms.

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I would be interested what you thought of my Copland, shame you are so far away. The CSA-14 is a hybrid integrated from Denmark mine is from 1995.

If I had faith in my packing and a spare amp, I send it you way for your listening pleasure.

Rated at 60w into 8 ohms.

I wouldn't mind trying the CA. As mentioned earlier have heard it a few times but not in my system.

Will PM you to organize the finer details.

Cheers.

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I would be interested what you thought of my Copland, shame you are so far away. The CSA-14 is a hybrid integrated from Denmark mine is from 1995.

If I had faith in my packing and a spare amp, I send it you way for your listening pleasure.

Rated at 60w into 8 ohms.

I'd love to hear it Batty, but we can't do everything we want to do. I may never get to hear everything on my list at the moment, there is an aweful lot of amps on it, but there's nothing I can do except move forward as time and funds allow. I may get to SA for work at some stage over the next few years, Adelaide is a bit of a showpony for the water treatment industry and that's the game I'm in and I'd like to wrangle a course or two down there if I can, if that happens I'll let you know.

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You would be most welcome at my door.

Salisbury council have been well (ouch, sorry) into water treatment for a while now and quite innovative I believe too.

Edited by Batty
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Salisbury council! I'll have to check out their website.

If you are ever in the north of Qld Batty let me know, I might be able to show you around, point out a fishing spot or two, that sort of thing. And discuss, and listen too, some gear as well (goes without saying really!).

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I'm not quite done with the Yamaha yet but I can say without a doubt that it is the equal of, or better than, the Burson in all areas. That is no small thing! I ran through a few of my usual test discs and the differences were small and not always noticable but the Yamaha had the edge. Then last night I pulled out one of my favourite albums that I hadn't heard for months, Alannah Myles second album, Rockinghorse and put it on. The yamaha made it sound just like an 80's rock album should, alot of incidental noise and guitar that was played fast and loose, in short imperfections that are so important they make the music sound better rather than worse. The Burson smoothed over this effect, damped down the halo of noise and the vibration of guitar strings as they were left to decay. In short the Burson did not portray the music as it should be heard, it modified the music to reduce listening fatigue. If I am listening to 80's rock then I should get listening fatigue, that is a necessary part of the experience. The Yamaha also gave a much more lively rendition, the Burson sounded flat by comparison. I feel sorry for the Burson, but damn I love the Yamaha!!!

The Yamaha A-S1000 retails for $2500, the Burson PI-160 for $2300 and the Marantz KI Pearl Lite for $2300. Now if the Pearl Lite gives us $2300 worth of sound quality then I would say the Burson by comparison should cost between $3000 and $3500 and the Yamaha $3750 to $4000. And that should be food for thought for anyone who is budget conscious.

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Which amps would they be dor? I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on gear I've heard too.

Sorry missed the question,

The krell, cambridge and marantz.

I'll start with my krell bias as that will give a little context to the others.

The first krell I heard was a 300il, which was in a mates system, as a trial. He had a set of B&W 604's that he had been driving with a rotel pre\power, I knew this system well and before I got mine used to spend around 5 or 6 hours a week listening to it(he lived only about 200m down the road). Craving more power he borrowed the krell for a week and I was quickly summoned after his first track to experience the control the krell had over the drivers compared to the rotel combo. The krell brought definition to the whole spectrum compared to the rotel, the highs became crisper, the mids better separated and bass tighter. The bass had been a problem with his system with It always sounding lazy(audio term?) never having the punch or control that resulted in every thing sounding a bit 'one note', I think this is due to the hardish load the speakers present in the bass region(3.5ohm in the 604's and newer 683's 3 ohm at 100hz, same with the 804's).

We both felt it was a great amp but he couldn't justify the expense at the time, It must have been only a couple of months later the rotel power amp failed(I think Mr bunny woke from a slumber on his warm 'bed' and decide to relieve himself where he lay\stood) and the 400xi had come out so he promptly order one unheard. He still uses it(with bunny barrier, until Mr bunny tried to eat the tv's power cord) and I also bought a 400xi, which is very very close to the 300il, So I obviously liked the crisp, clear and controlled sound of the krell's. I also hold the belief the krell shines when working with more difficult speaker loads and prefers using the balanced input. speakers with 89dB or less sensitivity and\or resistance at,or dropping to around, 4 ohms line up here.

The cambridge was trialled in the above system against the 400xi when I was amp shopping and hoping to find something cheaper than a krell. From the first track the cambridge sounded soft, it failed to have drive and seemed to fumble it's way though the music. I had wanted to like this amp as I had plans on the 840 combo but end just getting the 840c.

The Marantz was listen to on a similar system in a very different room so not apples to apples but interesting as I found a similar thing to yourself. It sounded fine at first, was better then the cambridge in frequency extension but as time went on I had thoughts that something was not right with mid and highs, I never had enough time to work out what I didn't like exactly as it needed returning but nothing stood out as obviously wrong and on first listen it sound ok but I quickly found myself not wanting to playing music with this amp.

So it seems I have a preference for a clean, strong sound with no embellishment as opposed to the warmer and richer sound that some prefer.

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Thanks Dor, we seem to have reached similar conclusions using different speakers, quite an achievement. It means that our experiences and opinions do count for something even in other systems and that gives us all the more reason to share and discuss right here on SNA.

Cheers mate!

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The Redgum that I was so generously offered in short term exchange for the Cambridge arrived yesterday. In a PM vmhf claimed that "redgum amps rock!" and I agree, this little 60W amp is up there with the best of the best. It has a full-bodied smooth sound that seems to emphasise the effect of the music, making dire straits more mellow making the punchy bass on Dido's Safe Trip Home even more punchy. It may not be quite as deep as the Burson or Yamaha but it is just so smooth to listen to you can drift off into the music and lose yourself. Here I am listening to songs that I know by heart and yet because I'm lost in enjoying the song I found I could not remember what the next line would be, so when that next line came along it was new and unexpected. I have got to get me one of these!

The internals are interesting too, this amp is more dual mono in construction than most with each channel separated down the middle of the body of the amp by a U channel. Now I'm no instro tech (but I am trying to slowly learn) but the PCB's do not even resemble those of any other amp I have seen. I'm guessing there are a few either secrets or tricks involved in the design and construction of these amps.

I shall have to demo further, I've only listened to 2 cds so far, but my preliminary finding is that Redgum Amps Rock!

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