Zammo Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) As an early adopter of CD as a young lad, but having initially been brought up on tape and vinyl, I developed a habit of listening to my CD's the way through. That hasn't really changed for me, and although I may end up with a system that exclusively streams my music, I will be ripping whole albums (CD's/SACD's) with the intent of listening to them as a whole. I understand your point, prof, but believe as you have stated it's more about the generation than than the media. I guess the major difference with vinyl is it forces you to listen through, whereas with digital the option is there to do what you like. Gen Y on the whole is too skittish to sit down for an hour and listen to entire album. They just want the good bits. Edited November 23, 2014 by Zammo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHC Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Even with vinyl one could selectively choose tracks by dropping and raising the cartridge. I used to do that with my records, no one is forced to hear out the whole side. One digital thing that it really can't do is the random shuffle. These are muted points as far as classical music is concerned, generally one wants to hear all the movements in their sequential order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proftournesol Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Yes of course you can play analog singles and cassingles and also pift the stylus on an LP to there spot that you want, but browsing really became simple with the advent of CD and then much more more with digital files. This isn't really an issue of music format, more with accessibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 So in that case you think that the point that digital files are more often sold singly and that the ease in browsing through a smorgasbord of digital files discourages serious listening is totally irrelevant because the article is not comprehensive, and because you disagree with one other point! OK, I don't understand that thinking but you're entitled to your viewpoint. I never said that at all prof, you seem to have come to your own conclusions on this. I was merely highlighting how the article zones in on one behavior and lays blame with that one behavior for a larger "issue". We both acknowledge there are other behaviors that contribute to the big picture. As the article fails to acknowledge that in any fashion, I see it as prejudiced and with an agenda, and therefore cannot place weight on the article. There may still be valid points made in the piece which I haven't disagreed with, but that's not what I'm commenting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Strewth. If some one invented a way to play a perfect copy of the original master tape via a phone app, with features for starting at any point and skipping tracks, there'd still be some curmudgeons complaining that it's not the optimal listening experience and there's no connection with the music and what about the ritual and at least back in my day we had real music and kids these days have short attention spans and just won't get off my lawn and why don't they show Matlock anymore that was my favourite show and do you remember the time I tied an onion to my belt it was a white one you couldn't get the yellow ones because of the war. --Geoff If I may say so, this is trite and demeaning. It also mimics what it sets out to criticise because it is equally prejudicial and laced with un necessary hyperbole. People have posted how they listen to music, and not the validity of a particular method, but of course, you can disagree and we will all live anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emesbee Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Strewth. If some one invented a way to play a perfect copy of the original master tape via a phone app, with features for starting at any point and skipping tracks, there'd still be some curmudgeons complaining that it's not the optimal listening experience and there's no connection with the music and what about the ritual and at least back in my day we had real music and kids these days have short attention spans and just won't get off my lawn and why don't they show Matlock anymore that was my favourite show and do you remember the time I tied an onion to my belt it was a white one you couldn't get the yellow ones because of the war. --Geoff You forgot to punctuate yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted November 23, 2014 Volunteer Share Posted November 23, 2014 Be honest now, when was the last time you were at a gtg and an album was played in its entirety ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zammo Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Be honest now, when was the last time you were at a gtg and an album was played in its entirety ? Not been at a GTG yet, but can't imagine it's really a forum for listening to an entire album. On my own, though, in the wee hours or a lazy Sunday arvo....that's when I have time to listen to a really good album where someone has taken the time to think about how the tunes should be ordered to get the message across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You forgot to punctuate yourself. I got it. --Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Be honest now, when was the last time you were at a gtg and an album was played in its entirety ? ... but this would be the case whether the source was vinyl or ipod/youtube/spotify .... yeah?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 never in 30 years have I ever had any needle jump when dancing. Not everyone is Fred Astaire like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I think this article os less about the quality of digital music v analog music, more that digital, especially streaming allows browsing rather than encouraging listening of the whole side. What's a 'side'? Seriously, I saw that article a few weeks ago when Michael The Framer linked it and proclaimed that Science now proves that analog audio is best. What a tool. What digital audio does, is allow people to consume music the way they want to. The rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hochopeper Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Aren't these articles just clickbait? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proftournesol Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 What's a 'side'? Seriously, I saw that article a few weeks ago when Michael The Framer linked it and proclaimed that Science now proves that analog audio is best. What a tool. What digital audio does, is allow people to consume music the way they want to. The rest is history. A 'side' is one side of an LP or perhaps one of a CD (yes I know that there's only 1 playable side) although remote controls allow a degree of browsing within the same CD. You are correct that streaming and digital file allow people to consume music the way that they want, but whether they are using the method that they want or the method that they don't want, it still influences the way that they relate to music in the same way that a smorgasbord overloaded with choice both influences the food that will be placed on it and the way that diners will think about and consume the food on it. Science will never 'prove' that analog or digital is 'better' or worse', only show that there are differences. 'Better' and 'worse' are opinions, not science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Science will never 'prove' that analog or digital is 'better' or worse', only show that there are differences. 'Better' and 'worse' are opinions, not science. Exactly. I prefer analog for music but digital for HT, simply my preference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betocool Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Having read the article and the opinions versed so far... does it mean that 20 odd years ago when I had a mixed tape sourced from radio, CDs, records or other tapes, was that a bad analog experience? Streaming and playlists are the natural evolution of mixed tapes and compilations. To me, this article attacks the way of listening to music rather than the medium, and makes an invalid point at the end. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proftournesol Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 Having read the article and the opinions versed so far... does it mean that 20 odd years ago when I had a mixed tape sourced from radio, CDs, records or other tapes, was that a bad analog experience? Streaming and playlists are the natural evolution of mixed tapes and compilations. To me, this article attacks the way of listening to music rather than the medium, and makes an invalid point at the end. I doubt that 1 mix tape would change your listening habits, but if you started your discovery of music by browsing through 1000s of instantly available digital files that cost you nothing and allowed you to instantly change to a different track at will with minimal effort then that would become your listening habit. I don't read this article as having a go at digital itself but mainly around the opportunities it provides for browsing rather than extended listening at minimal effort. How long did it take you to make your mix tape? Now you can ask for a 'Genius Mix' with one click of a button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Test -- ignore (having trouble posting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 A 'side' is one side of an LP or perhaps one of a CD. Yes, my was in my . You are correct that streaming and digital file allow people to consume music the way that they want, but whether they are using the method that they want or the method that they don't want, it still influences the way that they relate to music in the same way that a smorgasbord overloaded with choice both influences the food that will be placed on it and the way that diners will think about and consume the food on it. Yes, greater choice will influence your choices. As do all freedoms. For the article or any commentator to insist "you are freely choosing to do it wrong" is patronizing. Anyway, the key claim in the article, "She cited three important factors in creating a genuine experience with a piece of music — "repeated exposure, iterations and intent" — which can be short-circuited in a "taste and go" environment. ", is rubbish IMO if it is meant to imply that modern musical exposure is bereft of genuineness compared to the past. People who love music today still listen to entire works or pieces, just like they always did. And in the past with records and radio, people who only 'wanted music around' might have had whole (half) records playing but they weren't paying attention, instead doing their homework or shouting over the music to their friends etc. "Genuine experiences" indeed! Science will never 'prove' that analog or digital is 'better' or worse', only show that there are differences. 'Better' and 'worse' are opinions, not science. Your linked headline was: Science Shows There's Only One Real Way to Listen to Music 'Shows', 'proves', similar meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proftournesol Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yes, my was in my . Yes, greater choice will influence your choices. As do all freedoms. For the article or any commentator to insist "you are freely choosing to do it wrong" is patronizing. Anyway, the key claim in the article, "She cited three important factors in creating a genuine experience with a piece of music — "repeated exposure, iterations and intent" — which can be short-circuited in a "taste and go" environment. ", is rubbish IMO if it is meant to imply that modern musical exposure is bereft of genuineness compared to the past. People who love music today still listen to entire works or pieces, just like they always did. And in the past with records and radio, people who only 'wanted music around' might have had whole (half) records playing but they weren't paying attention, instead doing their homework or shouting over the music to their friends etc. "Genuine experiences" indeed! Your linked headline was: Science Shows There's Only One Real Way to Listen to Music 'Shows', 'proves', similar meaning. Newman, the headline was written my a sub-editor, it isn't science, its journalism. I don't think that the research is making assumptions about the genuineness of modern music, nor claiming that the experience of musical browsing is universal (especially not in people in our generation that have already acquired a habit of extended listening) only that it makes browsing more likely. Of course you are free to disagree with their conclusion. Do you have any contrary evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 was in my . Yeah, personally I wouldn't have chosen that particular image... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 New man, the headline was written my a sub-editor, it isn't science, its journalism. I don't think that the research is making assumptions about the genuineness of modern music, nor claiming that the experience of musical browsing is universal (especially not in people in our generation that have already acquired a habit of extended listening) only that it makes browsing more likely. Of course you are free to disagree with their conclusion. Do you have any contrary evidence? Bold bits [1] The article's author is the site's Editorial Fellow, so maybe he has a say in the headline, and his concluding paragraph exactly mirrors the headline: "But something will still be lost — not just the cover art on a vinyl, or the existence of a platinum album. What we lose with our new formats and habits for listening to music is a piece of ourselves; the musical part you keep in your heart, not your pocket.". Then we have Michael The Framer, crosslinking the article and repeating the headline verbatim; and he would have chosen his own headline. Then there's the guy who started this thread, and the headline he chose..... and seems to think is true wrt young people today? [2] The researcher makes claims about the genuineness of the experience of music these days -- like I said the first time. You misquoted me. [3] Their conclusion isn't based on any evidence either. Or none presented. So my view has equal weight in theory, or more in practice since I didn't actually lie about old listening habits (I managed to draw a distinction between putting on a whole half an album and actually listening to half an album). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proftournesol Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 Bold bits [1] The article's author is the site's Editorial Fellow, so maybe he has a say in the headline, and his concluding paragraph exactly mirrors the headline: "But something will still be lost — not just the cover art on a vinyl, or the existence of a platinum album. What we lose with our new formats and habits for listening to music is a piece of ourselves; the musical part you keep in your heart, not your pocket.". Then we have Michael The Framer, crosslinking the article and repeating the headline verbatim; and he would have chosen his own headline. Then there's the guy who started this thread, and the headline he chose..... and seems to think is true wrt young people today? [2] The researcher makes claims about the genuineness of the experience of music these days -- like I said the first time. You misquoted me. [3] Their conclusion isn't based on any evidence either. Or none presented. So my view has equal weight in theory, or more in practice since I didn't actually lie about old listening habits (I managed to draw a distinction between putting on a whole half an album and actually listening to half an album). Oh dear, Newman you've completely won, you've outfoxed me, you are 100% correct. Clearly nothing can compare to a digital smorgasbord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I can't handle convenience, if I'm listening and can change tracks easily It's bad news as I end up never listening to a whole song Plus there are many obscure but fantastic tracks that I wouldn't know about... except I have to listen to the whole LP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I find without question digital is better than turntables when listening in the car :-) You need to set your suspension to comfort mode...much better then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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