kunalraiker Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Guys need some recommendations on a 5.1 AVR that performs equally well on the Music ground. So basically need an AVR with a good DAC built in. I currently use an Onkyo SR609 and although the TV and movies sound great, the music when played struggles . Sounds very congested and lifeless. I suspect its the DAC thats to be blamed here hence looking to upgrade the AVR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBurns84 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Depends on your price range but I have an Onkyo 818 that does both music and movies reasonably well... you can get one second hand for as low as $500-600 these days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Depends on your price range but I have an Onkyo 818 that does both music and movies reasonably well... you can get one second hand for as low as $500-600 these days.. It's uses the same dac chip as the nr609. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 What do you guys think of Anthem MRX 300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) I've got a SR 805 going for a song. Flagship AVR 7 years ago. -Audyssey Multi EQ XT, -THX Ultra II certified, -146 watts with 5 channels driven according to techradars own measurements -192 kHz/24-Bit Burr Brown DACs for All Channels, EDIT: PCM1796×5 -and a beast to carry, about 30 odds kgs. You just need to get a couple of resistors fixed to bring the display back to life. A common problem with them. Say $300? I'd want over $400 if I fix it. It just doesn't have 3D or 4K, gimmicks as far as I'm concerned anyway. From Cnet http://www.cnet.com/au/products/onkyo-tx-sr805/ the TX-SR805 ups the ante to three HDMI inputs, THX Ultra2 certification including THX Neural Surround processing, and a host of internal audio enhancements--such as Burr Brown digital-to-analog converters (DACs)--designed to make audiophiles drool. There's no doubt the TX-SR805 sounds great, and for those who put a premium on audio quality, the TX-SR805 fits the bill. Edited November 18, 2014 by blybo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 I've got a SR 805 going for a song. Flagship AVR 7 years ago. -Audyssey Multi EQ XT, -THX Ultra II certified, -146 watts with 5 channels driven according to techradars own measurements -192 kHz/24-Bit Burr Brown DACs for All Channels, EDIT: PCM1796×5 -and a beast to carry, about 30 odds kgs. You just need to get a couple of resistors fixed to bring the display back to life. A common problem with them. Say $300? I'd want over $400 if I fix it. It just doesn't have 3D or 4K, gimmicks as far as I'm concerned anyway. From Cnet http://www.cnet.com/au/products/onkyo-tx-sr805/ I think you're missong the point. Onkyo does not make decent sounding receivers. They will be awesome for movies and TV viewing but under perform when it comes to music. I need an "audiophile" quality receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, Nad, Arcam, Cambridge all can and do make very good sounding AVR's. I've also got an old Denon 4306 which is great in direct mode but lacking as an AVR. Audiophile AVR's don't really exist. Even my Integra pre/pro and Electra aren't audiophile for 2 ch. My receiver mentioned above is very good but you really need to go to a dedicated 2 ch integrated with home theatre bypass if you really want to great 2 channel music out of a HT set up. I went the way of a completely separate 2ch system you can see in my sig which is better for 2 ch than the more highly spec'd/priced gear in my dedicated home theatre room. Edited November 18, 2014 by blybo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You'd need an AVR with pre outs. Then add a stereo integrated with HT bypass inputs. Use the stereo system for 2 channel music. Use the AVR -> pre out -> stereo system for movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 You'd need an AVR with pre outs. Then add a stereo integrated with HT bypass inputs. Use the stereo system for 2 channel music. Use the AVR -> pre out -> stereo system for movies. Not sure how this will work if I'am using the same speakers for both 5.1 as well as for music listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) You'd need an AVR with pre outs. Then add a stereo integrated with HT bypass inputs. Use the stereo system for 2 channel music. Use the AVR -> pre out -> stereo system for movies. There seems to be an echo in here. Jojo, if you use an integrated with bypass, it powers your main L&R instead of the AVR (usually a step up) but passes the AVR's signal straight through to the mains when watching movies tv etc. In layman's terms you will have 2 separate systems but both using your L&R speakers. You connect your HT gear to the AVR and your 2ch sources to the integrated. Main speakers connect to the integrated and the other channels connect to the AVR as usual. An even better solution, but more complex and expensive, is a Pre/Pro + 2ch pre with HT bypass, all connected to a quality 7 ch power amp. I'll be getting a 2ch pre with bypass when funds and priorities permit. Edited November 19, 2014 by blybo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipstartcanoe Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I recently replaced my Onkyo TX-NR709 with a Denon AVR-X5200W. Although the picture quality is only slightly improved with the Denon, the sound quality is significantly improved. Both units were used as 5.2 with a Bryston 5 channel amp. That said, the Denon is still not what I would be prepared to accept for 2 channel use, even with the external amp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipstartcanoe Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Audiophile AVR's don't really exist. Even my Integra pre/pro and Electra aren't audiophile for 2 ch. They do exist.......... http://www.msbtech.com/products/master.php?Page=platinumHome but they aren't that cheap.............. http://www.msbtech.com/products/masterDetail.php?Page=master Edited November 19, 2014 by zipstartcanoe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I recently replaced my Onkyo TX-NR709 with a Denon AVR-X5200W. Although the picture quality is only slightly improved with the Denon, the sound quality is significantly improved. Both units were used as 5.2 with a Bryston 5 channel amp. That said, the Denon is still not what I would be prepared to accept for 2 channel use, even with the external amp. Different brands have different "house sounds". I've found Denon to have a more detailed sound where Onkyo is a fuller, meater sound. You simply can't beat dedicating the 2ch and HT duties to separate processors. I got my Electra Theatron amp before the Integra 80.3 processor, but the processor made the biggest difference to sound, and dynamics in particular, but still has average imaging hence my eventual desire for a 2ch pre with bypass. I've trialled a few in my system and the results were great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 its all about compromises. yes there are AVRS around that do music or 2ch well. but you also have to pay suitably for them. you can't have your cake and eat it too. two avrs very good on 2ch and music, one is the denon 4308 I owned some years ago. had 7 power supplies and discrete dual differential dac stage type of which you no longer get. now days most avrs have a multichannel dad on a chip. the 4308 retailed for $5k. another avr in the denon avc-a1hd...your talking over $10k. there lovely balanced design, amps stage power supplies dac stage...is the kind of thing denon has done once every 10 years with their flagship. and yep pay for it. you can buy some brand avrs e.g. rotel, cambridge, arcade, nad etc but here again you pay, and what you get in sound quality you loose in features and capability. its compromise you can't have your cake and eat it too. the onkyo blybo mentioned is a tank ! the likes of which is rare in avrs these days. think the yamaha z9 as flagship thats the kind of thing we are talking. again good dac, analog stages, power supplies etc. the thing weighed 28 kgs ! yes for the same money, I personally would just add a 2ch integrated with ht bypass. even arcam are on record that their avr 300 one of the first they sold which retailed for good money was bettered by the a35 integrated of theirs for 2ch and music. there are plenty of $1k-$2k second hand 2ch integrated with ht bypass your going to struggle to beat for 2ch if going an avr. and the beaut thing is the 2ch integrated also benefits the ht side as takes the load of the aver to drive the main channels. of course the OP has not mentioned at all price. so could be the whole discussion here is totally irrelevant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 They will be awesome for movies and TV viewing but under perform when it comes to music. I've never understood this type of comment...... How could there be a difference? Unless you mean that the difference is with your expectations of what constitutes good for either media (video vs music) If you have a "congested and lifeless" problem with audio it will be there no matter whether you play music, TV, movies, cat sounds, or live jazz flute through it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 its all about compromises. yes there are AVRS around that do music or 2ch well. but you also have to pay suitably for them. you can't have your cake and eat it too. two airs very good on 2ch and music, one is the denon 4308 I owned some years ago. had 7 power supplies and discrete dual differential dac stage type of which you no longer get. now days most avrs have a multichannel dad on a chip. the 4308 retailed for $5k. another avr in the denon avc-a1hd...your talking over $10k. there lovely balanced design, amps stage power supplies dad stage...is the kind of thing denon has done once every 10 years with their flagship. and yep pay for it. the you can buy some brand airs e.g. rotel, cambridge, arcade, nad etc but here again you pay, and what you get in sound quality you loose in features and capability. its compromise you can't have your cake and eat it too. the onkyo blybo mentioned is a tank ! the likes of which is rare in avrs these days. think the yamaha z9 as flagship thats the kind of thing we are talking. again good dac, analog stages, power supplies etc. the thing weighed 28 kgs ! yes for the same money, I personally would just add a 2ch integrated with ht bypass. even arcade are on record that their avr 300 one of the first they sold which retailed for good money was bettered by the a35 integrated of theirs for 2ch and music. there are plenty of $1k-$2k second hand 2ch with integrated your going to struggle to beat for 2ch if going an avr. and the beaut thing is the 2ch integrated also benefits the ht side as takes the load of the aver to drive the main channels. of course the OP has not mentioned at all price. so could be the whole discussion here is totally irrelevant.... Looking to get an old Cambridge azure 640r Have heard good things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Looking to get an old Cambridge azure 640r Have heard good things a 640r would be quite old. its power stage was pretty serious needing a fan force fed cooling tunnel. decent power stage etc. power consumption was 1000w which like older harman kardan avrs were relative power houses compared to most japanese avrs which were at similar price bracket relative weaklings in the power stakes. one thing to keep in mind with the 640r while had hdmi like some very early units was hdmi v1.3 only and the unit could only do switching. i.e. it will not accept hdaudio of any kind over hdmi to be utilised by the avr. you would have to feed it audio either via analog or optical or coax. the 640r I would have to say as well. like from some other makers whom had their first go at hdmi was also a bit of a buggy pos. which not sure if ever got resolved. personally I would stay away from it. but you haven't still mentioned a budget so who knows what we are to suggest to you instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 a 640r would be quite old. its power stage was pretty serious needing a fan orce fed cooling tunnel. decent power stage etc. power consumption was 1000w which like older harman kardan avrs were relative power houses compared to most japanese avrs which were at similar price bracket relative weaklings in the power stakes. one thing to keep in mind with the 640r while had hdmi like some very early units was hdmi v1.3 only and the unit could only do switching. i.e. it will not accept hdaudio of any kind over hdmi to be utilised by the avr. you would have to feed it audio either via analog or optical or coax. the 640r I would have to say as well. like from some other makers whom had their first go at hdmi was also a bit of a buggy pos. which not sure if ever got resolved. personally I would stay away from it. but you haven't still mentioned a budget so who knows what we are to suggest to you instead. Budget is $1000, home is not as nice issue ad I do not require any audio processing. Sound quality is priority. As for audio optical is fine as there is not much if any difference from hdmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Budget is $1000, home is not as nice issue ad I do not require any audio processing. Sound quality is priority. As for audio optical is fine as there is not much if any difference from hdmi unclear why then you are getting an AVR then. if don't need processing, and don't feel hdmi has any gains for you. I would simply just get a dac. and 2ch integrated. be a lot simpler cheaper and you'd be better of audio wise. there are plenty of 2ch integrated with optical / coax inputs as well (built in dac card). maybe something to consider. $1000 is not a huge budget by the way. and the kind of avrs your talking in that price bracket unless very old are going to be pretty basic in dac/analog stage and power supplies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 in the $1000 thereabouts bracket I would recommend the cambrdige 551r http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/1599 or the nad 757 http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/1587 you might find a denon 4308 second hand which might get for bit more than $1000 if your lucky, otherwise definitely a denon 3808 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DENON-s-AVR-3808-HD-HOME-THEATRE-RECEIVER-/181468871864?pt=AU_Electronics_Home_Audio_Tuners_Receivers&hash=item2a40633cb8 alternatively I know you turned up your nose at the onkyo blybo mentioned would seriously I can't see anything coming next to it for $1000 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 I still need the decoding for Netflix, etc hence the avr. As for the onkyo. I'am a bit hesitant as specified are th same as my onkyo which worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 heres an example, rotel RA12 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotel-RA12-Integrated-Amplifier-with-In-Built-DAC-Black-RRP-1049-/251702705444?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3a9aa67d24 from local retailer too, so not some cheap grey import. not an old antique and can buy with confidence with warranty etc. "The amplifier has always been the heart of a hi-fi system, but for the new audio landscape, amplifiers need ‘brains’. The brain of the RA-12 is the Wolfson WM8740 24 bit/192kHz DAC, most often found in high-end audio products, and it ensures that the RA-12 extracts the full potential from its digital and Apple® authorised USB inputs. Traditional audio is not forgotten however, so the RA-12 also provides four analogue line-level inputs and a phono input. The RA-12 can be controlled from its front panel buttons, via a remote handset, or via an RT-12 and the Rotel Remote app for iPhone and iPad. The RA-12 is not just about versatility though; it is a very high performance 60 Watts per channel amplifier that puts music at the top of its priorities." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I still need the decoding for Netflix, etc hence the avr. As for the onkyo. I'am a bit hesitant as specified are th same as my onkyo which worries me. so you do need audio processing then. what audio processing exactly ? why don't you use the processing in what ever your source is ? that is another option. what s your onkyo ? and what are you worried about exactly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 heres another option in the rotel 1570, genuine 120 watts per channel no $1000 avr is going to have that, unless and old thing. you just decode to pcm and feed the dac on board the amp... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotel-RA1570-Amplifier-120-Watts-Per-Channel-List-1999-/161432832049?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2596258831 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunalraiker Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Avr processing will be much better than my room or fostex or my LG TV for that matter. The onkyo is nr609 and as per the op it's not that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts