Jump to content

So, I was thinking of buying a Fiio X3...and high res digital...


Recommended Posts

Yeah.  To replace music playing on my iPhone 4s.  Several reasons - the audiophile in me wants a better quality sound unit.  I'm going to be switching from the iPhone to a Samsung Galaxy S4 and the latter sounds well, to be polite, shyte.  

 

Owning a SACD player, and several discs (in fact, several on all 3 formats - SACD/CD/LP), and having disagreed with others in the past about the benefits of SACD and the ultimate SQ not being particularly good (at least to my ears/room) when compared to CD and in particular, LP, I'm dubious of high res in general.  

 

Doing some research shows that I'm not the only one.  Several people, who are much more intelligent than me, and who work in the field of digital audio are not convinced that high res (24 bit/192khz) audio is better than CD rates, and in fact, may distort the audio and sound worse.  Whilst SACD isn't at those rates, it reinforces my belief that high res audio is a crock of ****, designed by record labels to re-sell the same music to gullible people for increased profits.  Feel free to disagree, but that's my personal belief.  

 

Some interesting links:

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aes-melbourne-discussion/dTavQVIiDoA

 

You'll see that Christopher "Monty" Montgomery (creator of Ogg Vorbis) tends to think that high res digital is lacking...

 

You'll see that Dan Lavry tends to agree in general too.  

 

http://www.lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-white-paper-the_optimal_sample_rate_for_quality_audio.pdf

 

and

 

http://lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-sampling-theory.pdf

 

now, I don't profess to being super technical, and knowledgeable about this stuff.  As a user, I typically don't care about the mechanics, but about the end product instead.  I mean, how many of us want to be mechanics just in order to drive our cars?

 

of course, now DSD is being offered and a multitude of devices with the ability to play the format too.  

 

Is it all worth it?  I personally don't think so.  

 

Let's consider high res downloads...

 

http://www.findhdmusic.com/high-definition/directory/

 

anything that's available to Australia is pretty much classic music genre only.  What happens if I'm not a big classical fan?  There's a bit of jazz (I don't mind jazz), but what about more mainstream music, which is my main preference?  It's the same problem with SACD imho - where most of the rock/pop released onto the SACD catalogue is just sourced from the original masters, and upsized to SACD, with no real benefit in SQ.  And of course, there's the HD music fakes too - hdtracks has been caught in the past passing off HD files that were no different to standard def files.  It all makes me extremely suspicious, and given that SACD sounds the worst of all 3 formats to me on a consistent basis...

 

Well, I can't see what's available cos the big HD music companies don't make their stuff available in Australia (you gotta love regional discrimination, the yankees are the worst at it of course).  So, what's the point in someone like me even being interested in HD music...allowing for it potentially actually being noticeably better sounding that flac rips from a well recorded CD.  

 

Which brings me to my final point, and the real issue that I'd like some feedback from others on what they think - since the iPhone doesn't support flac, would something like the Fiio X3 be better sounding for flacs ripped from CDs than the iPhone with 320khz mp3s? i.e. ignoring DSD support, ignoring high res stuff.  What do you guys think?

 

Dave

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



I have just bought this set up and I am mighty impressed.   -   Scandisk Clip+  / Fiio E11 amp / 32g Micro SD card / 3.5/3.5 cable = $178 Delivered.   I use Shure 215SE IEM's but the Fiio E11 will drive larger over-ear headphones of lower ohmage.

 

Clip+ plays flac.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave

Get the flac player app....

 

Thanks - it's a bit pricey at $13 though!  And another reason why I'm looking at separate my music from the phone, is that the phone has apps/videos/photos on it.  And since the iPhone is only available up to 32GB (more regional discrimination, since the 64GB was only available in the US) and lacks a microSD slot for expansion, and since my video/apps/photos take up a good portion of said 32GB, putting flacs on it wouldn't make sense - I'd have even less room for music than I do now.  I'd rather keep the iPhone as a multimedia/phone device and split music from it.  Plus, I don't believe the DAC in the iPhone is particularly good (and the one in the Samsung is even worse).  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have owned the X3 and now own the X5 - The X3 with firmware 3.0 (latest) sounds stunning - no comparison to iPhone. I got virtually as much enjoyment from the X3 as I did from my WA6 SE - different sounding - it's incredibly relaxing to listen to - analog sounding, great soundstage but not artificially boosed treble if you know what I mean?

 

It also has pretty much the most powerful headphone amp on any portable player and will drive 300ohm 100db/mw headphones easily - It was a match in heaven to my HD600. I am guessing (although have never owned one - the sansa clip will sound good with efficient iem's but once you start using anything decent on them it will sound worse. I used my x3 with a fiio e12diy but to be honest with the stock op amps in the e12 it sounded pretty much the same as the fiio headphone out - which is to say it sounds great!

 

The x3 also has a VERY good line out which will compete with more than just entry level cd players and a decent coax digital out.

 

It sounds great with 16bit 44hz - to such an extent that i revisited many of old flacs 

 

In some ways I wish I had kept it - although the x5 has more detail the x3 was more fun to listen to - its only when you add the e12diy with some decent opamps does the advantage show

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites



I have just bought this set up and I am mighty impressed.   -   Scandisk Clip+  / Fiio E11 amp / 32g Micro SD card / 3.5/3.5 cable = $178 Delivered.   I use Shure 215SE IEM's but the Fiio E11 will drive larger over-ear headphones of lower ohmage.

 

Clip+ plays flac.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Too fiddly for me - I want a one box solution, not multiple.  It's bad enough carrying the iPhone around and another dedicated audio player!  I don't want 3 boxes!  Also, it looks like the Clip + from my prior research only takes up to a 32GB microSD card...

 

http://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4986

 

needs to be 64GB for me to maximise it's worth, especially if I'm going to convert from mp3 to flac.  The fiio x5 takes Two microSD cards, but it is pricier than I really would prefer to pay.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have owned the X3 and now own the X5 - The X3 with firmware 3.0 (latest) sounds stunning - no comparison to iPhone. I got virtually as much enjoyment from the X3 as I did from my WA6 SE - different sounding - it's incredibly relaxing to listen to - analog sounding, great soundstage but not artificially boosed treble if you know what I mean?

 

It also has pretty much the most powerful headphone amp on any portable player and will drive 300ohm 100db/mw headphones easily - It was a match in heaven to my HD600. I am guessing (although have never owned one - the sansa clip will sound good with efficient iem's but once you start using anything decent on them it will sound worse. I used my x3 with a fiio e12diy but to be honest with the stock op amps in the e12 it sounded pretty much the same as the fiio headphone out - which is to say it sounds great!

 

The x3 also has a VERY good line out which will compete with more than just entry level cd players and a decent coax digital out.

 

It sounds great with 16bit 44hz - to such an extent that i revisited many of old flacs 

 

In some ways I wish I had kept it - although the x5 has more detail the x3 was more fun to listen to - its only when you add the e12diy with some decent opamps does the advantage show

 

Thank you - so it'd be a market sound improvement over the iPhone then (even if I were to play flacs on the iPhone).  

 

I'd be using a pair of Sony MDR-V55 headphones - after spending nearly 80 minutes in store @ JB Hi Fi listening to various headphones, these ones beat them all in terms of SQ - very impressive.  They're around $150 and seriously, they saw off headphones double the price.  Very impressed.  They're balanced, good treble detail without being splashy, good bass without being overly biased in that area, lovely midrange, plenty of detail, reasonable soundstage.  

 

how does the x5 compare to the x3 in your opinion?  By the sound of it, the x5 has more detailed, but is maybe more clinical sounding and less musical than the x3?  is that a fair description?

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you - so it'd be a market sound improvement over the iPhone then (even if I were to play flacs on the iPhone).  

 

I'd be using a pair of Sony MDR-V55 headphones - after spending nearly 80 minutes in store @ JB Hi Fi listening to various headphones, these ones beat them all in terms of SQ - very impressive.  They're around $150 and seriously, they saw off headphones double the price.  Very impressed.  They're balanced, good treble detail without being splashy, good bass without being overly biased in that area, lovely midrange, plenty of detail, reasonable soundstage.  

 

how does the x5 compare to the x3 in your opinion?  By the sound of it, the x5 has more detailed, but is maybe more clinical sounding and less musical than the x3?  is that a fair description?

 

Dave

Got it in a nutshell-ish - I wouldn't say less musical - they are both musical - If it doesn't sound overly simplistic whenever I had the x3 I went to sleep before the end of every album (obviously not when driving :-)) - With the X5 I usually end up LISTENING to the album with the X3 you just enjoy it.......something to bear in mind it the BASS of the x3 is a bit stronger, treble slightly recessed (but its still detailed)- so if you are going for bass centric headphones you may find it overwhelming - you can EQ but in my opinion players never sound as clear with EQ.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got it in a nutshell-ish - I wouldn't say less musical - they are both musical - If it doesn't sound overly simplistic whenever I had the x3 I went to sleep before the end of every album (obviously not when driving :-)) - With the X5 I usually end up LISTENING to the album with the X3 you just enjoy it.......something to bear in mind it the BASS of the x3 is a bit stronger, treble slightly recessed (but its still detailed)- so if you are going for bass centric headphones you may find it overwhelming - you can EQ but in my opinion players never sound as clear with EQ.

 

Thanks!  The X5 is tempting, especially since it can take 2 x 128GB cards, but it's more than I really want to pay :(  And the 128GB cards themselves aren't cheap...

 

Good food for thought.  I haven't used FLACs much, what would the average size FLAC file be in your experience?  I've read from Googling that they're around 50-75% of a WAV file or thereabouts...does that sound about right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, I have ripped all my CD's in FLAC, compression level medium, let's say, and they go about 60% of the size of WAV. I used to have a free FLAC player on my old Nokia, but after issues with little memory I converted all to Ogg Vorbis (comp. level 7, equivalent to 256 Kbit/s), and I carry many of them around on my cell phone, for jogging or on the car, no serious HiFi!

 

I still have the FLAC's though, in case I decide to get a separate player. I used to be the guy that had all things separate, player, phone, palm, but now I'm after the comfort of an all in one device. Now I'm on a stand-by phase.

 

If I were you, I'd try to give the Fiio a listen, and based upon that, act.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Well, just reading:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/675035/fiio-x3-nightmare

 

I'm not so sure I want to gamble on this product now - I'm not the luckiest of guys, and you can bet your bottom dollar that if it can go wrong for me, it will...

 

I think I will wait and save up for an Astell & Kern AK100 II.  I will mull this over more...

 

My guess is that the Fiio x3 lacks sufficient internal RAM and CPU power to handle larger selections of files.  And the internal database is probably very badly designed.  From a hardware point of view, it looks good (other than my CPU/RAM suspicions), pity...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just having a play with some HD stuff that I downloaded from hdtracks.com (Miles Davis A kinda blue in 24 bit 192khz) on my MBP.  iTunes won't handle that rate.  Reading:

 

http://www.macworld.com/article/1160651/how_to_find_and_play_high_resolution_audio_on_the_mac.html

 

shows that I have to change the output device, fair enough, did this.  Now, I don't really want to use iTunes to play my high res audio tracks, so I googled a bit, and found a link to Fostex AudioPlayer.  Downloaded it, small download, nice 'n' easy.  Not quite...it won't play any tracks, keeps saying no output device selected.  Go to preferences, there's a drop down menu for audio device output, but it's blank.  I have to laugh - the user guide on Fostex' page is all in Japanese.  I'm not quite sure what logic they used there - a webpage that's in English, for an application that defaults to English in its menu, but the linked to user guide is all in Japanese.  Someone with **** for brains was working on that site  ;-)

 

I'll try it in iTunes, not sure what will happen here, since I already have Miles Davis' A kinda blue 50th anniversary ripped into my iTunes library...

 

Looking at jriver, seems reasonably priced, might give that a go.  

 

This sort of stuff should be dead easy - download song, double click and play and go, but it seems alas, that this is not the case.  No wonder the average person doesn't give a **** about high def music  ;-)

 

I'm personally very curious to see if I can notice a difference between high res 24 bit 96khz and 24 bit 192khz music and lower res flacs ripped from a CD.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, scratch jriver - mac support is well...dismal...

 

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?PHPSESSID=2ukl5h01rhn00u60cjporg3eq5&topic=91135.0

 

no ripping...a most basic function but not supported on what is supposedly premiere software and has been around for quite some time...

 

"Ripping isn't available yet in MC for Mac.  Coming soon.  It also doesn't do video or photos.  Just audio.

You could rip on the PC's and play on the Mac's."

 

WTF!  What happens if I only own a Mac?  Golly gosh... (I don't own only a mac, but that's beside the point).  

 

Of course, now, I thought I'd look at Foobar 2000...Windows ONLY support...

 

Has OS X become the new Linux (with **** all support)...

 

edit: did some Googling, some recommended Vox, dead link...mmm.  I see where I'm going with this...back to:

 

http://www.macworld.com/article/1160651/how_to_find_and_play_high_resolution_audio_on_the_mac.html

 

and I'll check out play, cog and songbird...man, talk about how to make something so easy, so hard.  PS I don't want to convert the flacs to Apple's ALAC either.  

 

This is seriously turning me off digital beyond CD.  ****, even playing a record is simpler than this shyte...

 

2nd edit:

 

songbird - discontinued...

 

cog - last developed in 2008...might be a dead project methinks!

 

play - last released in 2007...

 

found this link:

 

http://www.mcelhearn.com/how-to-listen-to-high-resolution-audio-files-on-a-mac/

 

and

 

http://www.mcelhearn.com/why-itunes-doesnt-support-flac-files/

 

(the same guy who write the first mentioned link in my post above)...basically, it seems, like it and lump it if I'm running OS X.  Convert to ALAC and play in iTunes...

 

I'm not feelin' the love!!!

Edited by valvelover
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey... linux ain't that bad!

 

I like Linux, a lot.  I've been a staunch support of the FSF and GNU GPL for many years, and have used Linux since Redhat 5.2, circa '97.  It's my operating system of choice except most stuff that I want doesn't run on it...After using Linux as my ONLY desktop for 6 years (2000 - 2006), I gave up on it as a desktop and succumbed back to the Windows land...nearly all of our servers @ work run Linux (Debian).  

 

My reference was more that it seems OS X is being marginalised with shitty software support much like Linux was...

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Well, initial impressions - track 1, "So what" (apple lossless version converted using XLD) vs 200kbps mp3 rip of same track from the Deluxe CD - with the ALAC version, upright bass has a bit more note delineation, Saxophone is perhaps a bit smoother in tone, dynamics a very very very tiny bit better.  Musicality - about the same.  

 

The differences are so tiny, and you'd have to know the music well, and be listening critically with high quality headphones in a quiet and non distractive environment I might add, as to be worthless imho.  Perhaps my ears aren't that good.  Perhaps the Mac isn't the best environment to be listening to these sorts of comparative examples.  I'll listen a bit more, but I'm already forming a conclusion - high resolution music is a put on, designed by a niche market to con people into spending more money on tracks that they already own.  That this stuff is taking off in the high end audio arena just confirms my suspicions that we're a gullible and naive bunch.  I'm pretty confident that double blind testing with ordinary people would show that bugger all differences can be heard between high resolution music and well ripped mp3 files.  

 

The only caveat that I can think of is the Mac lacks the resolution to show the difference between the ALAC and mp3 track properly.  

 

Still, I suspect that the better DACs in these DAPs will probably ultimately better the SQ found in the standard DAC in an iPhone 4s.  So, there's a chance that my existing mp3s will sound better.  

 

PS these thoughts match my SACD vs CD vs LP conclusions on my audio system, which is much higher SQ orientated than a Mac.  

 

PPS you are free to disagree with my conclusion, but this is my ears, my system, and my money.  I guess I'm a flat earther  ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, just reading:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/675035/fiio-x3-nightmare

I'm not so sure I want to gamble on this product now - I'm not the luckiest of guys, and you can bet your bottom dollar that if it can go wrong for me, it will...

I think I will wait and save up for an Astell & Kern AK100 II. I will mull this over more...

My guess is that the Fiio x3 lacks sufficient internal RAM and CPU power to handle larger selections of files. And the internal database is probably very badly designed. From a hardware point of view, it looks good (other than my CPU/RAM suspicions), pity...

What about iBasso dx50? It's on my "to buy" list for a digital player and seems to review better than the fiio, at least from my own research
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about iBasso dx50? It's on my "to buy" list for a digital player and seems to review better than the fiio, at least from my own research

 

I thought about that - SQ wise, it seems to fit in between the x3 and x5.  I haven't done any proper research on it yet, so supported formats, expandability (and amount) are on my check list.  UI is the most important thing to me, and the fiio units leave a lot to be desired from what little I've seen so far.  It seems the new UI with firmware 3 seems to be better though:

 

 

I could live with that UI (mostly).  That leaves my only concern being reliability and weird issues.  Most people are saying that firmware 3 seems to be fixing these hangs etc.  

 

I was look at the Sony ZX1 unit, and it looks interesting, bar a few "issues"

 

http://www.sony.com.au/product/nwz-zx1

 

1) no internal microSD support for expandability...does come with 128GB memory though...

 

2) SQ not quite up there with the A&K 120 by all accounts.  I have a feeling it'll probably lag behind the fiio x3 and x5 too, but better them in reliability and UI...

 

3) typical Sony, a propriety connection method...why Sony, why?  Isn't USB micro, an industry standard, good enough for you?

 

4) Given Sony's prior history of DRM and intrusive software, would I trust them?  Not really to be honest...

 

BQ seems vastly better than anything other than the A&K units from what I've seen...

 

By all accounts, the A&K units are supreme resolution devices, but lack musicality.  I'd rather sacrifice resolution and ultimate detail for musicality any day...

 

I can't believe that there's so few players in the market.  Sony, iBasso, fiio, A&K and Sandisk with their clip+ (an extremely limiting device in many ways and not what I personally want)...perhaps more manufacturers are waiting to see if high resolution DAPs take off.  

 

I honestly think that for most people, mp3 and your android/iPhone are well and truly good enough for music on the go.  I also think that high resolution music is vastly over hyped and in most instances, near impossible to discern from high quality 320mbps mp3 songs...also, I can't honestly see high resolution DAPs taking off and becoming the norm because of both price and the need to carry 2 devices (mobile phone and audio player).  Most people will simply not be in for that.  Given that audiophiles are probably less than .01% of the population, I can only imagine that those after high resolution DAPs are in similar percentage numbers...that's a very small and niche market, and I can't see big companies spending money on R&D and advertising for little gain (pun intended).  

 

Just my very honest take on the whole thing after spending the past several days doing a lot of reading and thinking about it all...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did some reading on the iBasso DX90 vs the fiio x5 - some prefer one or the other.  It seems that most liking the iBasso like dance/trance, which are 2 genres that I have zero interest in.  Some are saying the that the x5 is more analogue sounding and a bit more powerful in the bass...since I listen to a bit of this, and a bit of that, but I'm gravitating mostly towards acoustic/folk sounds, it's hard for me to judge how either player would suit my needs.  And since it's not easy to get an in store demonstration...the dx90 sounds a lot better than the dx50 by all accounts.  I do like the fact that the ibasso dx90 has a touch screen and it looks much better built.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been reading this thread with interest. Here's my experience.

Recently I decided to go back into head-fi with a focus on simple portability but hopefully good quality. My previous setup (years ago) was an cowon j3 with something like the sure 215, this setup was amazing at the time, it wasnt flac but it was great.

This time I chose the ibasso dx90 plus the etymotic er4, all unheard/tested. I decided on the dx90 based on it having support for flac (what format my collection is in now), dual mono dacs, internal amp with enough grunt to power most earphones (if i choose to expand), positive feedback esp compared to the dx50 and under half the price of the AK 120 II, DSD (although converted to PCM). I figured it would be a nice easy dip into the head-fi world without going all out with multiple devices (DAP,amp,etc) and without the massive cost.

As a bonus thanks to firmware upgrades it can double as a DAC for your computer via USB see here

I got it through valuebasket which i found was the cheapest place i could get it through.

When i get it i can post my thoughts if your still in the market then.

Good luck with the search.

Edited by funky
Link to comment
Share on other sites



I have been reading this thread with interest. Here's my experience.

Recently I decided to go back into head-fi with a focus on simple portability but hopefully good quality. My previous setup (years ago) was an cowon j3 with something like the sure 215, this setup was amazing at the time, it wasnt flac but it was great.

This time I chose the ibasso dx90 plus the etymotic er4, all unheard/tested. I decided on the dx90 based on it having support for flac (what format my collection is in now), dual mono dacs, internal amp with enough grunt to power most earphones (if i choose to expand), positive feedback esp compared to the dx50 and under half the price of the AK 120 II, DSD (although converted to PCM). I figured it would be a nice easy dip into the head-fi world without going all out with multiple devices (DAP,amp,etc) and without the massive cost.

As a bonus thanks to firmware upgrades it can double as a DAC for your computer via USB see here

I got it through valuebasket which i found was the cheapest place i could get it through.

When i get it i can post my thoughts if your still in the market then.

Good luck with the search.

 

Thank you for your input Funky - greatly appreciated!  I wonder if that's a local warranty @ valuebasket?  If so, that's an amazing price.  Can you plug this into the line inputs on your preamp and use it as a source device?  I think the fiio x3/x5 can do that, unless I'm mistakenly misunderstanding things (probably lol).  Have firmware updates allowed the device to support DSD (5.8mghz) and not just DSF?  

 

The only thing tempting me with the fiio x5 is the inclusion of 2 microSD slots.  That is very tempting.  Watching some videos of the version 3 firmware in action, it seems OK.  My only concern then would be reliability...

 

This is the sort of music that I listen to:

 

Taylor Swift (I'm a huge fan if you haven't guessed)

Alan Jackson

Avril Lavigne

Brad Paisley

Bruce Springsteen

The common linnets

counting crows

dire straights

Elvis

Kinna Grannis

Kings of Leon

Mika

Lorde

Miles Davis

Placebo

Roy O

Tom Petty

Time Bandits

Transvision Vamp

Tsuyoshi Yamamato

Van Morrison

Wheatus

The 1975

 

How do you think the iBasso will deal with that sort of music choice?  It seems that a lot of the DX90 listeners listen to dance/trance as apparently the DX90 has good PRAT.  I prefer detailed but not super bright treble, forward midrange that is detailed, tight bass and musicality is high on the list.  A detailed DAP that is detailed but not musical will not be my cuppa tea...

 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could buy from mp4nation.com always received fantastic service from them

 

you mean mp4nation.net.  Based in Hong Kong, no Australian warranty...(they are an official reseller of fiio though!).  

 

I'm tempted to take a chance on the x5.  Those dual microSD slots are so tempting.  if only I could listen to both the x5 and DX90 with my headphones and choice of music...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, that doesn't sound promising... :(

I gave them a call after reading those links, they promised that it would be shipped shortly and that I'd get an email from the courier so I can track it, lo and behold I got an email last night from Toll Global Express with tracking details - coming from Hong Kong. The website looks legit (although I ain't an expert) so fingers crossed it's not a scam! I'll keep u informed.

Valvelover, as to the specifics of how it sounds I'm not sure as I haven't got it yet.

I haven't looked into the specifics of their warranty offer, It was low on my list of things to look for when purchasing, along with scams ;)

Yes I believe u can plug this from line out straight into your pre and use it as a source.

I think it's only DSD64 so 2.8, but could be wrong.

Yep the x5 with two card slots does look advantageous but for me I figured I don't need to carry my whole collection with me so one will be enough esp when larger capacity cards come out. I think both devices can support 1-2tb cards when they come out...

If I get anymore information I'll post it...

Edited by funky
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top