Hearing Differentiations between People - Could there be any medical attributes that contribute?

[MKSOUND_HT]

Hey everyone,

I absolutely love all various components of Hifi, Home Theater and can sit there and talk about any various topic all day long if I wanted. I love reading up on peoples opinions when it comes to DIY, buying pre made, using budget equipment or top of the line, cheap lamp wire for speaker cable or the most expensive on the market. It makes for a huge amount of reading and theres nothing cooler than like minded people sharing their opinion, since if everyone had the "perfect" setup we would be all listening to the same speakers with the same cables etc.

 

The one biggest most discussed topic has to be the audible differences in particular to speaker cables, some may find certain cables sound brighter in certain frequencies and vice versa with other cables. My thoughts are whether the human hearing is the same for everyone. Just like twins in life, small variances in life (diet, excercise, climate conditions etc) can change their overall look quite considerably.

 

Also just like a speaker:

Requires time to bed in

Voice Coil can eventually wear out

Cone Surrounds can deteriate with time

Can be over driven and damage the voice coil, leads or amplifier etc

 

My understanding of the human anatomy is that a human ear could easily be subjected to similar levels of wear as mentioned above. Am I right in thinking that the variances in a new speaker to a used speaker (not being able to play the same frequency range at the same db etc) could also be applicable when it comes to human hearing developing/wearing out differently?

 

As a result this could be why certain speaker brands or speaker cables sound bright, or more airy than others. It might be a factor to the popularity of the topic.

Really curious to see what others think.Thanks for your time

Edited May 23, 2014 by aad_ht

[Janjuggler]

Hi

 

A little light reading on the matter here

 

The short of it is :

 

Background: Hearing loss affects health and quality of   

life. The prevalence of hearing loss may be growing

because of an aging population and increasing noise

exposure. However, accurate national estimates of hearing

loss prevalence based on recent objective criteria are

lacking.

 

Methods: We determined hearing loss prevalence

among US adults and evaluated differences by demographic

characteristics and known risk factors for hearing

loss (smoking, noise exposure, and cardiovascular

risks). A national cross-sectional survey with audiometric

testing was performed. Participants were 5742 US

adults aged 20 to 69 years who participated in the

audiometric component of the National Health and

Nutrition Examination Survey 1999-2004. The main

outcome measure was 25-dB or higher hearing loss at

speech frequencies (0.5, 1, 2, and 4 kHz) and at high

frequencies (3, 4, and 6 kHz).

 

Results: In 2003-2004, 16.1% of US adults (29 million

Americans) had speech-frequency hearing loss. In the

youngest age group (20-29 years), 8.5% exhibited hearing

loss, and the prevalence seems to be growing among this

age group. Odds of hearing loss were 5.5-fold higher inmen

vs women and 70% lower in black subjects vs white subjects.

Increases in hearing loss prevalence occurred earlier

among participants with smoking, noise exposure, and

cardiovascular risks.

 

Conclusions: Hearing loss is more prevalent among US

adults than previously reported. The prevalence of US hearing

loss differs across racial/ethnic groups, and our data demonstrate

associations with risk factors identified in prior

smaller-cohort studies. Our findings also suggest that hearing

loss prevention (through modifiable risk factor reduction)

and screening should begin in young adulthood.

 

Acknowledgement to:

 

Prevalence of Hearing Loss and Differences

by Demographic Characteristics Among US Adults

Data From the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1999-2004

Yuri Agrawal, MD; Elizabeth A. Platz, ScD, MPH; John K. Niparko, MD

 

JJ

[betty boop]

Yes we aren't all born the same and our hearing does deteriorate ... Just with age and can also be accelerated with exposure ...But like all our senses....it can also be trained and developed and calibrated plus also accentuated ... Eg if we loose one of our senses often other senses are accentuated to try compensate

[daemon d]

Or the short answer is, yes. Different people have different levels of hearing deterioration, and different people, even in the "normal" range, are born with differences in their hearing response. This has been measured and documented.

 

Teenagers commonly hear higher into the treble than middle aged or older people. I remember when I was a teenager, quite a few of the speakers that audiophiles loved back then sounded bright and nasty to me, and I leaned strongly towards the warmer speakers like AR or B&W.  Now I wonder why I never liked those other speakers; they sound fine. In reality my hearing has just rolled off over time. I get it measured a coupe of times a year and can see this in the results.  I wonder now if a teenager might think my speakers were bright, or if he'd just wonder where to plug in his iPod.

[Telecine]

It cannot be doubted that there are some quite deaf listeners. In a group situation, I notice this from time to time from the comments they make, It is obvious to me that they are hearing something different to the majority.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Telecine

[Luc]

  Eg if we loose one of our senses often other senses are accentuated to try compensate

 

Like when you flounder about in the dark looking for the light switch you know is there because every other night you got up in the dark and needed to dump the nitrogen fertiliser, there it was.

 

But tonight it's not there and you walk smack dab into the bedroom/bathroom wall and stub your big toe,bash your noggin,swear really really loudly and when you do find the toilet bowl your aim is off and then the other player in this drama (the player that let you down originally your sense of direction) arrives on the scene and then finally your hearing cuts in and you hear the concerned tone of your partner and she's halfway out of bed(your sense of direction tells you this...somehow):-

 

"Are you OK?" 

"Yeah, just missed where the wall (plural) are and, umm, also the toilet bowl that's all, and my head hurts and my big toe too and I sprayed it about a bit...umm."

 

You smile in the dark in what you hope is a self deprecatory manner.

 

" Your a f/wit"  Is what you actually hear and you also pick up on the huge 'sigh' afterwards as well.

 

So yes your other senses are accentuated when one or more senses diminish.

 

I've gained that almost mythical thing called a 'Sixth Sense' and it's directly linked to the Handbrake and when her sigh enters the16000 Hz range my ears prick up and I also tremble, knowing what's to come...

[keyboardman_uk]

If you can hear at 16 k I reckon you are doing all right then!

 

Very few people can hear much up there. 

 

I get a hearing test every now and then and I've been wearing musicians earplugs at keyboarding gigs for over 5 years now. Wish I knew and had all this stuff when I was 20 though, when it really counted.

 

I was always careful with my hearing, but like just about everyone of my age I've got a slight dip around 3k - being next to the drummer's snare perhaps, or just natural aging as it's within "normal" range? 

 

Still bugs me though. I want to keep perfect hearing forever.

[MKSOUND_HT]

Thanks for everyones awesome and in depth replies, definitely helps me get a better understanding of it.

 
I must admit that mood and alertness also has a huge influences to my senses. In the morning I can only listen to Jazz in the morning when driving to work. On the way back though its Drum and Bass at its best haha. 

[Nada]

...My thoughts are whether the human hearing is the same for everyone. Just like twins in life, small variances in life (diet, excercise, climate conditions etc) can change their overall look quite considerably.....

 

One modifiable individual medical hearing factor to be aware of is the external auditory meatus or ear hole. This sound orifice can be naturally or artificially modified. Some users have it damped. Dampening can be achieved via hairs, wax, insects, lost ear buds etc. Critical band attenuation can be gained by removing the said dampening material and applying different coats to the meatus. Shellac tends to create a brighter resonance favoured by the aged.

[Nada]

.

I was always careful with my hearing, but like just about everyone of my age I've got a slight dip around 3k - being next to the drummer's snare perhaps....

 

 

General guidelines for drum frequencies

• Kick Drums – usually 80-130-150 Hz
• Snares – usually 120-250 Hz
• Floor Toms – usually 60-80-110 Hz

Doesn't seem likely the snare drum could get anywhere the 3000Hz band? even taking the upper f. of 250 the 4th harmonic is only 1kHz but Hi-hats could do it.  Blame the wife I say. Or maybe the bloody keyboard player.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Nada

[daemon d]

You can get dips at certain typical frequencies by loud noises not at those frequencies, due to delicacy of the internal bits and things. If you were regularly exposed to loud noise at say 120 to 130 DB across a broad frequency spectrum, you'd eventually see a decrease in response at higher frequencies as well as the dominant noise bands.  You can also get dips in hearing response from long term exposure to relatively low level noise. My audiologist tells me that quite allot of his clients have characteristic dips that correlate to driving with the car window down, air con' units and photocopiers, though none of these are loud enough to be considered a hearing risk. He reckons very long exposure times has similar effects to very loud exposure, just not as quick obviously.

 

I'll try your shellac suggestion Nada, but to be honest it's hard to get bags of shellac beetle wings now. Would a polyurethane top coat do, do you think?

 

I wonder if it would help if I stuffed bybees in my ears?

Edited May 25, 2014 by daemon d

[User Name]

Medications can also affect hearing, balance (etc), sometimes permanently.   Some websites suggest that there are over 200 such drugs, known as ototoxic.

 

It's probably pointless saying this on here, but 'real' tinnitus (as opposed to light ringing after a night at a loud pub) is a farka of a thing, so I urge everyone to enjoy their music as quietly as possible.  Hmmm, fat chance of that happening.

 

I was a muso for many years without an issue.  In recent years, I "regressed" (ha!) to doing relatively soft-volume duo gigs.  Then, one Sunday I woke up with my right ear shreaking for no apparent reason.  The previouis night's duo gig was no louder than usual. 

The worst of the ringing subsided after a couple of days, but has been intermittent since, which was just over 2 years ago.  It's improved a little, in both frequency and severity, but.,.....eh, I won't give my life story,......

 

Why I came here: I have a 2-bit theory that our hearing 'taste' (or perception, or whatever ya wanna call it) can change from day to day.  I played a fair of guitar, so I spent tonnes of time tweaking the sound of my gear, and buying new stuff. 

One moment, I'd be in love with the sound my stuff was making, and go to bed very satisfied.  The next night I'd turn it back on, and wonder what the hell happened to my awesome tone!!

Edited May 25, 2014 by User Name

[jeromelang]

In my experience, it is not so much about hearing health, but more so because people listen very differently and place priorities on different aspects of sound reproduction.

For this purpose, therefore, a primer for "how to listen", "process", "interpret" and "expressing with written words" is needed i think.

Rick Gardner (now calling himself doc sardonious), a reviewer at Positive Feedback Online has written a very good article about 10 years ago, on how we listen, process and and most particularly, the art of using visual terms to articulate what we hear.

His article inspired me to create the following video clips for "sound education", because I found that the simplest way to detect sonic anomalies is to pay close attention on the system's projection of soundstaging.

it is also easier than any other means i know how to articulate in words the sonic differences, that any discussion groups can all relate to over the online platform.

Edited May 26, 2014 by jeromelang

[keyboardman_uk]

But I am the bloody keyboard player

[keyboardman_uk]

I'm about to get another hearing test as it has been a couple of years. How many people here have had one? Any one got the guts to post their results? Reckon I will.

 

It's worthwhile remembering that the only people who have truly perfect hearing are babies.

[djb]

Voluntary health checks of any type are to be avoided

The experts find things wrong with you that you didn't know we're problems

Ignorance is bliss

[evil c]

Voluntary health checks of any type are to be avoided

The experts find things wrong with you that you didn't know we're problems

Ignorance is bliss

 

I don't want to know stuff like that! @@djb  

[Monkeyboi]

I too often wondered if people with different shaped ears heard things differently from myself so I tried a simple experiment.

 

Whilst listening to a musical passage I gently pressed my fingers behind my ears as to make them stand out more from the skull and appear similar to the "wing nut" look.  Well I was quite surprised how dramatically it changed how I heard the sounds.  Mid and high frequencies sounded a lot more pronounced than I normally heard them.  This suggests to me that anatomical differences to the shape and size of the ears can and does influence how the person hears sound.  This may very well explain one reason why two people listening to the same system in the same room will "hear" the reproduced sound quite differently.

 

Of course it's a well documented fact that the mechanics of the human ear does wear out as we age.  It's also quite able to damaged by exposure to excessive sound levels for sustained periods.  This damage may affect some or a lot of the audible spectrum.

 

Cheers,

Alan 

[THOMO]

In my experience, it is not so much about hearing health, but more so because people listen very differently and place priorities on different aspects of sound reproduction.

For this purpose, therefore, a primer for "how to listen", "process", "interpret" and "expressing with written words" is needed i think.

Rick Gardner (now calling himself doc sardonious), a reviewer at Positive Feedback Online has written a very good article about 10 years ago, on how we listen, process and and most particularly, the art of using visual terms to articulate what we hea

His article inspired me to create the following video clips for "sound education", because I found that the simplest way to detect sonic anomalies is to pay close attention on the system's projection of soundstaging.

it is also easier than any other means i know how to articulate in words the sonic differences, that any discussion groups can all relate to over the online platform.

Very good although both imaging forward of the speakers and front-to -back layering as well as centre fill imaging could be better represented.

At least that is how I like my systems to image.I also like image height.

Many people do not seem to hear that sort soundstaging though.Yamaha NS 1000 speaker owners for example.Whenever I hear those speakers they seriously lack centre fill and depth of imaging but other people seem not to notice that presentation.A peanut on its side sort of soundstage.

Getting people to draw the soundstage shape they hear is quite interesting.Some people do not seem hear much projection or layering.

Edited September 2, 2014 by THOMO

[Rob181]

It cannot be doubted that there are some quite deaf listeners. In a group situation, I notice this from time to time from the comments they make, It is obvious to me that they are hearing something different to the majority.

 

More likely the hearing is the same...probably how the neurons are interpreting the signals passed to them...

 

However some people are tone deaf...my son amongst them...

[Newman]

I agree with Rob. 

 

@@Monkeyboi, doesn't matter what shape our ears, when we hear a live voice or instrument, that's our reference for natural sounds. All else is comparative.

[jeromelang]

Very good although both imaging forward of the speakers and front-to -back layering as well as centre fill imaging could be better represented.At least that is how I like my systems to image.I also like image height.Many people do not seem to hear that sort soundstaging though.Yamaha NS 1000 speaker owners for example.Whenever I hear those speakers they seriously lack centre fill and depth of imaging but other people seem not to notice that presentation.A peanut on its side sort of soundstage.Getting people to draw the soundstage shape they hear is quite interesting.Some people do not seem hear much projection or layering.

Uh.... When my mentor (a senior sales guy) first taught me the concept of soundstage and imaging, we were listening to the NS1000M

If they don't seem to image very well, the problem is usually with electronics upstream.

If ever the conditions were right, believe me, the sense of musicians playing in the room can be so real.

Many years later I switched from the NS1000M (I had 2 pairs if them) to the Sony SS-M7s

Although I haven't known it at that time, these Sony babies had all their drivers wired in the positive absolute polarity unlike the yamahas, which had their high and midrange drivers wired in the negative absolute polarity.

The sony M7 were able to portray better depth of field.

Then later I landed on the bigger SS-M9EDs, which are a whole another level altogether.

All three speakers can do the height thingy very well.

But let me put my hand over my heart and say - all of these speakers I've owned are still not imaging correctly.

"Height" in imaging is a sonic artifact created by the non linearities in arrival timing from the various drivers in a speaker system.

[evil c]

Very good although both imaging forward of the speakers and front-to -back layering as well as centre fill imaging could be better represented.

At least that is how I like my systems to image.I also like image height.

Many people do not seem to hear that sort soundstaging though.Yamaha NS 1000 speaker owners for example.Whenever I hear those speakers they seriously lack centre fill and depth of imaging but other people seem not to notice that presentation.A peanut on its side sort of soundstage.

Getting people to draw the soundstage shape they hear is quite interesting.Some people do not seem hear much projection or layering.

 

Interesting observation regarding the NS1000's - I have heard this bandied around by some people but think @@jeromelang is on the money with the electronics.

Many discard these speakers because they are difficult to like if not carefully matched with high quality components, ordinary recordings can have their shortcomings exposed by them as well.

Then there's correct positioning to consider:

I have some Vienna Acoustics Haydn standmounts and they have a phenomenal soundstage but my NS1000M's aren't too far behind and offer to me a richer sound that a larger dimension cabinet and speakers provide and I have an ideal match with a Push pull valve amplifier.

I experimented with swapping the speakers L to R as the tweeter/mid are set to one side so you either have them close to the inside or wider apart on the outside with the former giving me a more detailed soundscape.

Pity you're not in Vic @@THOMO so you could hear what I mean.

@@Yamaha Man has a soft spot for them for good reason too!

Edited September 3, 2014 by evil angelist

[THOMO]

I have heard the NS 1000s on numerous occasions in rooms and with electronics that normally have excellent imaging depth and centre fill.

Put the NS1000s in and pretty much all of that vanishes and the soundstage gets sucked back towards each speaker.

I even sat down in front of a pair at last years Hi Fi Show in Melbourne only to hear exactly the same presentation and yet other people were raving about how good they sounded.

So all I can conclude from that is some people hear them differently.Either that or they simply do not hear 3D type soundstaging.

That is why asking them to draw the soundstage in a perspective is often a good way of attempting to understand how people hear [or listen].

We taste differently and enjoy different sorts of music so perhaps it is also only natural that we hear differently.Indeed such diversity might be rooted in aiding the survival of the species.Or at least tribe.