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#91 rantan

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:12 PM

Whatever.

#92 pete_mac

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

If you look closely at the photo's in the ebay ad the OP initially enquired about, the plugs are solid and robust, the wires have very thick insulation and are shielded. For the price, I think its pretty good.


I bought one of those exact mains plugs from the seller to terminate a cable. The quality of the plastic housing was OK, but the metal thickness for the active and neutral pins was variable - not good at all. I won't be buying one again - lesson learned.

I've also used the heavy duty Clipsal 1439SHD which are capable of use with a 10mm dia mains lead, have a solid body with integral cord clamp, and are held together via two screws down the length of the plug body. For $6-7 these are very good value IMHO and much better than the HPM or Clipsal $3-4 cheapies at Bunnings.

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Edited by pete_mac, 20 October 2012 - 08:19 PM.

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#93 VA50

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:50 PM

Power supply in terms of available current is very much like the city's water supply, which is the dam.
In audio equipment, the dam is the capacitor(s) after the transformer inside the amp, preamp, cdp, tuner.
If the dam is full because the rainfall has been adequate, then no amount of extra rain is going to achieve anything.
Even ordinary power leads will keep the capacitors topped up.So the issue is not about 'available current'.
The only other thng left is the discussion about noise and shielding.
Again, the point about 2 or 3 metre of shielding vs 30m of unshielded cabling in the walls.
No amount of shielding will clean up the noise that is already on the lines befre it gets to your house plus your household appliances ..
Dedicated power supplies, dedicated earthing, power cleaning seem worth considering, but exotic 3m power cables ??!! WTF ??
Plenty of people were cured by snake oil...... it wasn't the snake oil that did it....but they are convinced it was.


Exactly!! Some of the cables on here are $200+ for a meter. At that price the stuff should be gold core or something. Not just regular copper wire with 'Audio' stamped on it. Stuff it, I'm going to go buy special screws to hold the cover on my amplifier to get better sound :P

The chase for perfect sound is never ending.


#94 Tasso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:24 PM

Again, the point about 2 or 3 metre of shielding vs 30m of unshielded cabling in the walls.
No amount of shielding will clean up the noise that is already on the lines befre it gets to your house plus your household appliances ..
Dedicated power supplies, dedicated earthing, power cleaning seem worth considering, but exotic 3m power cables ??!! WTF ??
Plenty of people were cured by snake oil...... it wasn't the snake oil that did it....but they are convinced it was.


Who said anything about cleaning up existing electrical noise in power lines? That is NOT why shielding is useful for audio cables. Its to prevent RF and EMF interference in the cables from the wall to the equipment. In many cases neighbouring equipment can cause the problems. In my case I use the shielded cable after the power passes through balancing transformers which remove the unwanted artefacts from the mains supply.

While I do accept that some people can hear differences in cables in their equipment, IMO cleaning up the power supply is a far better investment in producing audible differences to sound than the expensive power cables. The improvements are not subtle.


I bought one of those exact mains plugs from the seller to terminate a cable. The quality of the plastic housing was OK, but the metal thickness for the active and neutral pins was variable - not good at all. I won't be buying one again - lesson learned.

I've also used the heavy duty Clipsal 1439SHD which are capable of use with a 10mm dia mains lead, have a solid body with integral cord clamp, and are held together via two screws down the length of the plug body. For $6-7 these are very good value IMHO and much better than the HPM or Clipsal $3-4 cheapies at Bunnings.


Well it certainly seems quality is variable but the ones i have bought in the past are quite decent. Not quite as slick as the Furutech connectors ( which I also have), but very solid and reliable. The Clipsal 1439 SHD has limitations in terms of the thickness of cable it can take. It seems that the maximum individual wire cross section is 1 sq mm or around 17 AWG, considerably lighter duty than the others on offer. Now it may well be that is all that is needed, but while there is a preference for thicker cables, it still means we Aussies don't have too many choices.

Edited by Tasso, 20 October 2012 - 09:25 PM.


#95 skippy124

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:33 PM

With regard to the comments re standards, flimsy plugs, inability to terminate large gauge cable etc.

The standard Australian plug top is designed to allow termination of light, ordinary and heavy duty cable - 0.75sqmm, 1.0sqmm and 1.5 sqmm respectively. For "normal" mains interconnection (wall power point to equipment) use that is all that is required for various equipment up to 10 amp max load. Trying to terminate larger cross section conductors in plug tops that are not designed to accommodate such cable would indeed be difficult.

#96 pete_mac

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:47 PM

Well it certainly seems quality is variable but the ones i have bought in the past are quite decent. Not quite as slick as the Furutech connectors ( which I also have), but very solid and reliable. The Clipsal 1439 SHD has limitations in terms of the thickness of cable it can take. It seems that the maximum individual wire cross section is 1 sq mm or around 17 AWG, considerably lighter duty than the others on offer. Now it may well be that is all that is needed, but while there is a preference for thicker cables, it still means we Aussies don't have too many choices.


The Clipsal 1439 SHD accepts 14AWG/2.1mm2 just fine - I have used those Clipsal plugs with Belden 19364 cable. Likewise, the Martin Kaiser silver-plated AUS mains plug works well with the Belden cable too. About 15 pounds each from mainscablesrus.co.uk:

Posted Image

••• Logitech Squeezebox Touch > Resonessence Labs Concero DAC with Teradak PSU > restored Sansui AU-X701 and Sansui AU-719 > JPW Ruby 2 and Electrovoice Interface A Series III speakers > Audio Principe and Aurealis cables •••


#97 unclemack

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

I must have clothe ears or my gear is not revealling enough. Or perhaps joz is onto something in that the power supplies in my equipment is not affected by a 2m power chord.........I have an electrical background so I struggle to understand why or how a power chord can change the way equipment sounds. It just does not make any sense or engineering sense.....
What equipment was affected by power chord changes which could be clearly heard a difference?
Every time I have done power chord changes NO Difference was detected by me or anyone else who was listening. NONE!
In the interest of keeping an open mind I will try it again....... I will pass om my honest findings again.
What power chords will make an instant impact and make me hear things from my system I havent heard before??


I know that a good power chord is vital to any good metal song. However I don't know if power chords can change the sound of your system...

Cheers

M

Edited by unclemack, 20 October 2012 - 10:00 PM.


#98 Jones99

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:04 PM

I know that a good power chord is vital to any good metal song. However I don't know if power chords can change the sound of your system...

Cheers

M

Nice out of all that you picked up my poor spelling.
Edited.
Cheers

Source: Emm Labs Preamp:The Gryphon Power Amps: The Gryphon Speakers: Dynaudio  Cables : Nordost Valhalla. Power Conditioning: PSAudio P10


#99 unclemack

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

Yep.

Cheers

M

#100 Nigel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:21 PM

Unclemack !! , dear boy.... so a good power cable is vital !!!
Well I'll be f&8k'd I thought vital meant 'life and death' ....
and what if an $8 cable does the same as a $200 power cable ...... what meaning do we put on 'vital' now ???
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#101 unclemack

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

Unclemack !! , dear boy.... so a good power cable is vital !!!
Well I'll be f&8k'd I thought vital meant 'life and death' ....
and what if an $8 cable does the same as a $200 power cable ...... what meaning do we put on 'vital' now ???


I never said anything about a power "cable".

#102 Tasso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

The Clipsal 1439 SHD accepts 14AWG/2.1mm2 just fine - I have used those Clipsal plugs with Belden 19364 cable. Likewise, the Martin Kaiser silver-plated AUS mains plug works well with the Belden cable too. About 15 pounds each from mainscablesrus.co.uk:


Thanks Pete, I have never thought about a 14AWG cable with so many being in the 8-12 AWG range. I generally use 10 AWG and have always gone for the path of least resistance. :D

#103 Nigel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:29 PM

I never said anything about a power "cable".

My apologies....
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#104 pete_mac

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:29 PM

Thanks Pete, I have never thought about a 14AWG cable with so many being in the 8-12 AWG range. I generally use 10 AWG and have always gone for the path of least resistance. :D


Fair enough. The Belden 14AWG is about double the size of the factory wiring on the amps that I upgrade, and likewise, it's double as thick as the standard 'kettle cord' IEC cables that get provided with most amps, DACs etc. I'm quite happy with that size when the length of the cable is only 1-1.5m.

••• Logitech Squeezebox Touch > Resonessence Labs Concero DAC with Teradak PSU > restored Sansui AU-X701 and Sansui AU-719 > JPW Ruby 2 and Electrovoice Interface A Series III speakers > Audio Principe and Aurealis cables •••


#105 Nigel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:37 PM

Yep, I was firmly entrenched in the 'cables are cables' camp until I heard the subtle changes made by various cables with my own ears.

So you don't mean power cables here either ??
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#106 unclemack

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:37 PM

My apologies....


None needed mate. Just being a spelling Nazi :) :D

Cheers

M

#107 pete_mac

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:04 PM

So you don't mean power cables here either ??


So what if I do?

Are you the cable police Nigel? ;)

Edited by pete_mac, 20 October 2012 - 11:06 PM.

••• Logitech Squeezebox Touch > Resonessence Labs Concero DAC with Teradak PSU > restored Sansui AU-X701 and Sansui AU-719 > JPW Ruby 2 and Electrovoice Interface A Series III speakers > Audio Principe and Aurealis cables •••


#108 ozmillsy

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:28 AM

The Clipsal 1439 SHD accepts 14AWG/2.1mm2 just fine - I have used those Clipsal plugs with Belden 19364 cable. Likewise, the Martin Kaiser silver-plated AUS mains plug works well with the Belden cable too. About 15 pounds each from mainscablesrus.co.uk:

I can't find the Aussie plug on that website, is it a special order? I notice they do rhodium plugs as well.

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#109 pete_mac

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:57 AM

I can't find the Aussie plug on that website, is it a special order? I notice they do rhodium plugs as well.


Yeah, contact David directly. He has them in stock but does not advertise them.

••• Logitech Squeezebox Touch > Resonessence Labs Concero DAC with Teradak PSU > restored Sansui AU-X701 and Sansui AU-719 > JPW Ruby 2 and Electrovoice Interface A Series III speakers > Audio Principe and Aurealis cables •••


#110 rantan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:11 AM

Unclemack !! , dear boy.... so a good power cable is vital !!!
Well I'll be f&8k'd I thought vital meant 'life and death' ....
and what if an $8 cable does the same as a $200 power cable ...... what meaning do we put on 'vital' now ???


What if you took your fundamentalist, evangelical diatribe of skeptical shite out of a thread where consenting adults are participating in their free choice to do WTF they wish without you foaming at the mouth and thread crapping?

#111 Jake

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:45 AM

Nigel, you have been told.
Can’t tell if you're serious or trolling hard. The internet has dulled my sarcasm receptors.

#112 spike89

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:21 PM

Nigel.. have you tried deaf-aids??.

#113 cableconnoisseur

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:15 PM

What if you took your fundamentalist, evangelical diatribe of skeptical shite out of a thread where consenting adults are participating in their free choice to do WTF they wish without you foaming at the mouth and thread crapping?


Then it just wouldn't be SNA................now, would it :cool: ?


#114 Tasso

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

I have just received my power cable from the HK supplier mentioned in Post #1. In terms of quality of construction it is first rate and is excellent value for money. I have measured the plug pin thickness with a digital vernier caliper and it is identical to the thickness of the Furutech plug and indeed most other Aussie plugs. Pin width is the same as well.

Apart from New Zealand and a couple of tiny island nations, China is the only other country in the world that i know of that uses a plug similar to the Australian plug. The differences in practice are as follows:

1. Chinese earth pin is slightly longer than the Aussie. I found No downside to this in practice as it does not cause problems with our sockets.

2. The newer Aussie plugs have insulation material part way on the Positive and neutral spades, The Chinese ones do not.

The choices for Aussies wanting heavy duty HIFI cables with an Australian plug are severely limited. Apart from the Clipsal 1439 SHD and Martin Kaiser, which are limited to 14 AWG, the ONLY other choice appear to be Furutech. This does comply fully but is expensive ( around $240 for plug and IEC socket). This leaves the only affordable alternative for 8 -12 AWG cables with an Aussie plug being from from China.

The alternative is to use an affordable IEC cable with Hubble (USA) connectors ( made in China) with an adaptor ( also probably made in China).

Edited by Tasso, 25 October 2012 - 12:04 PM.


#115 pete_mac

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

I have just received my power cable from the HK supplier mentioned in Post #1. In terms of quality of construction it is first rate and is excellent value for money. I have measured the plug pin thickness with a digital vernier caliper and it is identical to the thickness of the Furutech plug and indeed most other Aussie plugs. Pin width is the same as well.


Good to hear. They might have lifted their game after my complaint at the quality of the plug I received (or my plug may have been a rare case which slipped through the quality control process).

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#116 Jake

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:29 PM

That lack of insulation on the pins means it is not compliant with Aussie standards. But worse than that it allows a child to slip a piece of metal down and electrocute themselves - the reason for the standard, as I understand.

This is not to say that you will have problems, just providing info.
Can’t tell if you're serious or trolling hard. The internet has dulled my sarcasm receptors.

#117 GSpot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:41 PM

I have a an Ella Baby power cord which has a separate wire with an alligator clip. http://www.osbornlou...opera/Ella.html

Can anyone tell me what that wire is/for?

Also, I've used the cord with two CD players and my pre-amp without issue. But when I plug it into my power amp, the amp won't turn on. It's probably best I get some advice before I blow something up. :P

As Pauline would say..."please explain"

Cheers
G

#118 Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:00 PM

I have a an Ella Baby power cord which has a separate wire with an alligator clip. http://www.osbornlou...opera/Ella.html

Can anyone tell me what that wire is/for?

Also, I've used the cord with two CD players and my pre-amp without issue. But when I plug it into my power amp, the amp won't turn on. It's probably best I get some advice before I blow something up. :P

As Pauline would say..."please explain"

Cheers
G


What power amp?
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#119 myrantz

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:04 PM

Can anyone tell me what that wire is/for?

I'm only guessing here.. But if it's like some I/C it's the option of letting you ground the shielding, or not.

Some cables have shielding (like this one), and some prefer to ground the shielding at both ends (GPO <-> equipment), or one ends (GPO or equipment)... Or completely "floats"...

Not sure if that's true but a multi-meter set to continuity should verify that. (tap the earth pin on the male end and the clip, it should beep).. Tap the clip and the female end, hopefully it wouldn't beep... (or something like that :P)..

#120 GSpot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:16 PM

What power amp?


Elektra Reference.


I'm only guessing here.. But if it's like some I/C it's the option of letting you ground the shielding, or not.

Some cables have shielding (like this one), and some prefer to ground the shielding at both ends (GPO <-> equipment), or one ends (GPO or equipment)... Or completely "floats"...

Not sure if that's true but a multi-meter set to continuity should verify that. (tap the earth pin on the male end and the clip, it should beep).. Tap the clip and the female end, hopefully it wouldn't beep... (or something like that :P)..


I understood all those words individually Treb. But putting them together in sentences has lost me. :confused:

I know less about electricity than the average ignoramus. :(

#121 myrantz

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

I understood all those words individually Treb. But putting them together in sentences has lost me. :confused:

I know less about electricity than the average ignoramus. :(

I forgot the most important bit!!!!!! make sure the power cable is unplugged when you do that :P.... I'd see if I can google something up... brb.

#122 Tasso

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:21 PM

I'm only guessing here.. But if it's like some I/C it's the option of letting you ground the shielding, or not.

Some cables have shielding (like this one), and some prefer to ground the shielding at both ends (GPO <-> equipment), or one ends (GPO or equipment)... Or completely "floats"...

Not sure if that's true but a multi-meter set to continuity should verify that. (tap the earth pin on the male end and the clip, it should beep).. Tap the clip and the female end, hopefully it wouldn't beep... (or something like that :P)..


It does look like a shielding earth option. I have an IEC power cable with a separate earth made by Accuphase - see picture. I thought that was to give options in case of ground loops but the ELLa wire looks too flimsy for a mains earth.

Posted Image

#123 Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:32 PM

Elektra Reference.


You should ask Elektra if their amp will function with an unapproved power cable.
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#124 GSpot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

You should ask Elektra if their amp will function with an unapproved power cable.


Probably best I just use an approved one. ;)

I was just curious regarding the extra wire, and why the cord works on some equipment and not others. The Elektra pre-amp is fine with it.

Cheers for the prompt response Zaph. :thumb:

#125 myrantz

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:41 PM

It does look like a shielding earth option. I have an IEC power cable with a separate earth made by Accuphase - see picture. I thought that was to give options in case of ground loops but the ELLa wire looks too flimsy for a mains earth.

Nice cable! TBH first time today I seen power cables with this feature... Only seen I/Cs with this...

Gspot, My google fu is pretty bad... I only managed to find this: http://www.thecablec...uct/Power-Clef2

Together with our discrete shield grounding system, our power cable lets audiophiles choose the grounding method of the outer shield-- floating or grounded. The shield grounding connects the outer shielding to the equipment chassis through the alligator clip (which is also made of copper). During our extensive listening tests, we concluded that different systems (different components in the system!) behave distinctively when the outer shielding is being floated or grounded. Experience yourself the significance of using shield grounding in your system!!!

Just a possibility, not sure if the Ella is the same.. Elektra pre+ref.. :love :love

#126 Tasso

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:49 PM

That lack of insulation on the pins means it is not compliant with Aussie standards. But worse than that it allows a child to slip a piece of metal down and electrocute themselves - the reason for the standard, as I understand.

This is not to say that you will have problems, just providing info.


Thanks Jake, I guessed that's what the pin insulation was for. The USA style plugs don't have the insulation either and while I am not recommending that anyone should not comply with Australian standards, the choices are limited. I did however forget to mention one Aussie plug that will take heavy gauge wire. That is the weather proof Clipsal 56P 310 250V IP 66 below ( the 10A plug on the left). I did make a cable a few years ago with this and removed the large plastic fitting that attaches to the matching socket. It has good strain relief as well from memory. ( I forgot about these because you just don't see them around much)

Posted Image

Edited by Tasso, 25 October 2012 - 01:50 PM.


#127 GSpot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:51 PM

The plug is a poor fit anyway. It sits pretty loose in the back which in itself is not good. Plus the cable is quite stiff, so it's too easy to work it's way out.

#128 ozmillsy

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

Thanks Jake, I guessed that's what the pin insulation was for. The USA style plugs don't have the insulation either and while I am not recommending that anyone should not comply with Australian standards, the choices are limited. I did however forget to mention one Aussie plug that will take heavy gauge wire. That is the weather proof Clipsal 56P 310 250V IP 66 below ( the 10A plug on the left). I did make a cable a few years ago with this and removed the large plastic fitting that attaches to the matching socket. It has good strain relief as well from memory. ( I forgot about these because you just don't see them around much)

Posted Image


I saw these on eBay sometime ago, and bought a couple. Haven't used them, as I couldn't see an easy way of getting that plastic fitting off. Is there a trick to it, beyond breaking it off?

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#129 Tasso

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:18 PM

I saw these on eBay sometime ago, and bought a couple. Haven't used them, as I couldn't see an easy way of getting that plastic fitting off. Is there a trick to it, beyond breaking it off?


From memory, take the the plug apart by undoing the screws and the orange plastic shroud should unscrew - it might have needed a bit of "assistance"

#130 Tollbags

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:15 PM

I'm thinking of butchering one of these, and trying it out...for the shielding aspect. I also get good discounts on clipsal gear.


http://updates.clips...es/A0000230.pdf

#131 ozmillsy

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:26 PM

I'm thinking of butchering one of these, and trying it out...for the shielding aspect. I also get good discounts on clipsal gear.

Hey tolley, interested to hear how you find that cable. Looks interesting. Let us know how much they are.

Digital Rig: Marantz CD94 (i2s) -> KillerDAC(click)
Analog Rig: Luxman PD-310 / Syrinx PU3 / DucKingwood 103r -> Eastern Electric Minimax Phono
Into: AudioNote M3 Pre -> Radford STA15 S3 -> Tannoy Monitor Golds (15's)


#132 qwerter

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

I have just received my power cable from the HK supplier mentioned in Post #1. In terms of quality of construction it is first rate and is excellent value for money. I have measured the plug pin thickness with a digital vernier caliper and it is identical to the thickness of the Furutech plug and indeed most other Aussie plugs. Pin width is the same as well.

Have you noticed any SQ improvement with this cable?

Edited by qwerter, 27 October 2012 - 09:34 PM.


#133 Tasso

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:18 PM

Have you noticed any SQ improvement with this cable?


Honestly, I don't usually compare cables from a SQ perspective these days other than a cursory play of a well known track to make sure everything is OK. I bought an expensive cable from VH Audio a while ago and was disappointed that I couldn't hear any difference between it and a much cheaper Xindak FP-1 cable. I accept that some people can hear differences, but the number of choices are so staggering on the world stage ( every man and his dog and cat make them), I wouldn't know how to begin to rank them - other than ensuring they have decent construction, high amperage capacity and shielding.

#134 qwerter

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:39 PM

Honestly, I don't usually compare cables from a SQ perspective these days other than a cursory play of a well known track to make sure everything is OK. I bought an expensive cable from VH Audio a while ago and was disappointed that I couldn't hear any difference between it and a much cheaper Xindak FP-1 cable. I accept that some people can hear differences, but the number of choices are so staggering on the world stage ( every man and his dog and cat make them), I wouldn't know how to begin to rank them - other than ensuring they have decent construction, high amperage capacity and shielding.

But would you hear a difference over a cheap ac cord?

#135 Tasso

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:14 PM

But would you hear a difference over a cheap ac cord?


Not everybody hears differences in cables but I did hear a difference with a similar cable from Hong Kong when I replaced a standard cord on a B&W 1000w subwoofer. The bass response seemed a bit quicker and slightly more complete than before. I also noticed a slight improvement with my valve preamp as well. Differences are subtle.

Now there are those that will quote power consumption and state the standard cables can cope just as well, and from an electronics perspective they can. However, as we are increasingly learning, the human ear can detect changes that electronic equations and rules suggest that we should not. And not everybody has the same hearing or indeed have trained their hearing to detect minute changes . Hearing, like other activities can be trained to recognise subtle differences in sound.

A good example of old rules being proved wrong is in the field of computer audio. We are finding that using SATA HDD connection vs USB gives an improvement in sound despite USB having far more than enough bandwidth to cope with the bitrate. One thing I have learnt is that we all know BS does exist in this game, but when so many people from all walks of life consistently hear the same things, there is usually something to it.