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#61 GraemeB

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:38 PM

Clipsal plugs:

http://updates.clips...2&contentId=788

Not sure if they sell direct though.
"Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light." Anon

#62 NIKO

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:42 PM

Hello

Any Middy's outlet can get any of the Clipsal range of plugs .

yassou

#63 ozmillsy

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

Do I believe that the often supplied crappy power leads with thin wire, crimped connections and cheap and nasty plugs and sockets can sound inferior to a properly built one.

SGR supply properly built black cables, that don't feel cheap in anyway.

But the sound does change, when changing over to cables with Furutech plugs, and heavier gauge wire. It's dramatic.

But I don't believe that you need to spend mega bucks on these things nor do I believe a lot of the claims made as to the "improvement" in sound.

define mega bucks. I've tried Furutech vs Clipsal, on the same cord, and definetly prefer the Fututech. The Furutech plugs aren't cheap though, any pre-made cable with them that is certified will start at $300, and go up from there.

And I do have to laugh (quietly to myself of course) when I see several very expensive after market power leads plugged into a $6 4 way power board.

those who care about power cables, generally invest in other aspects of the power supply chain. Dedicated power runs, filters, regenerators, etc.

I use a thoroughbred sequential, it does a good job.

Edited by ozmillsy, 18 October 2012 - 05:33 PM.

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#64 Tasso

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:46 PM

I think the cables are excellent value because you are getting 8WG shielded cables with an Australian Plug. The Aussie plug by the way is the same type of plug used in Mainland China. I think heavy current handling capability with shielding are very important in home hifi.

In terms of difference in sound cables can make, I have experienced subtle changes for amps and subs going to heavy gauge cables from normal IEC types, and the shielding certainly has its place with the usual myriad of cables going everywhere. Once connecting such cables I haven't been able to distinguish sound improvements by swapping in very expensive cables. If the differences are there, they must be subtle and instead of spending big bucks on power chords, I would strongly recommend that a power regenerator or Balanced transformer will make a more significant improvement in sound quality - far more so than the equivalent value of power cables.

Edited by Tasso, 18 October 2012 - 05:47 PM.


#65 Nigel

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:19 PM

it is refreshing to read a contrary opinion based on sound logic.

That said, I have heard many times the improvements that ( sensible ) cable upgrades can and do make.


Fantastic, the 1st sentence praises fact and logic, then comes out with the opposite - highly dubious opinion.
Sorry, when I say dubious, I mean, we don't believe you. Please give some facts - not "I have heard many times", or
"anyone who couldn't hear the differenc is deaf", remember it is a difficult sell, because the reality is that power cords make no difference
unless of course one cable is ridiculously underrated (in amps, not reputation).
This thread is like all the nongs put your hand up....AND THEY DO !!
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#66 Tasso

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:22 PM

Apart from a shielded cable, a decent RF shielded power board is a must. The ones I use are made of thick solid copper ( gold plated - see below) and are the only ones I have used in my system that completely eliminate interference and noise from other power sources. It has no filters but works much better than the audiophile filtered types I have tried.



Posted Image

Edited by Tasso, 18 October 2012 - 06:22 PM.


#67 rantan

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:57 PM

Fantastic, the 1st sentence praises fact and logic, then comes out with the opposite - highly dubious opinion.
Sorry, when I say dubious, I mean, we don't believe you. Please give some facts - not "I have heard many times", or
"anyone who couldn't hear the differenc is deaf", remember it is a difficult sell, because the reality is that power cords make no difference
unless of course one cable is ridiculously underrated (in amps, not reputation).
This thread is like all the nongs put your hand up....AND THEY DO !!


Yep.
if anyone would be full bottle on NONGS it would be you.

#68 Jake

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:00 PM

Fantastic, the 1st sentence praises fact and logic, then comes out with the opposite - highly dubious opinion.
Sorry, when I say dubious, I mean, we don't believe you. Please give some facts - not "I have heard many times", or
"anyone who couldn't hear the differenc is deaf", remember it is a difficult sell, because the reality is that power cords make no difference
unless of course one cable is ridiculously underrated (in amps, not reputation).
This thread is like all the nongs put your hand up....AND THEY DO !!

Nigel, pull your head in and piss off to another thread if you don't like this one.

I hate signatures. And irony. I hate that too.

 

 


#69 GraemeB

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:01 PM

Fantastic, the 1st sentence praises fact and logic, then comes out with the opposite - highly dubious opinion.
Sorry, when I say dubious, I mean, we don't believe you. Please give some facts - not "I have heard many times", or
"anyone who couldn't hear the differenc is deaf", remember it is a difficult sell, because the reality is that power cords make no difference
unless of course one cable is ridiculously underrated (in amps, not reputation).
This thread is like all the nongs put your hand up....AND THEY DO !!


Dem's fightin' wordz Niggle! :P

Edited by GraemeB, 18 October 2012 - 07:02 PM.

"Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light." Anon

#70 avalon

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:09 PM

Fantastic, the 1st sentence praises fact and logic, then comes out with the opposite - highly dubious opinion.
Sorry, when I say dubious, I mean, we don't believe you. Please give some facts - not "I have heard many times", or
"anyone who couldn't hear the differenc is deaf", remember it is a difficult sell, because the reality is that power cords make no difference
unless of course one cable is ridiculously underrated (in amps, not reputation).
This thread is like all the nongs put your hand up....AND THEY DO !!


I think you just put both your hands up :D

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#71 qwerter

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

Thank you all for the input. Will let you know how my power cables journey progresses... Did not want this thread to become another war of opinions, but it is probably inevitable when the word "cable" is mentioned. I wish people who do not believe in cables making difference would just ignore the thread...

#72 rantan

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

I wish people who do not believe in cables making difference would just ignore the thread...


Exactly.

I am pleased [ some ] people here could help. All the best and make sure you have fun :)

Edit: I am considering some Little Blue penguin power cables my self and they are priced very reasonably. They are made buy a forum member and have a great rep so I will keep you posted if you like.

Edited by rantan, 18 October 2012 - 07:19 PM.


#73 ozmillsy

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

Hey Tasso, that looks really interesting. I'd like to give it a try. Can I have the details.

Apart from a shielded cable, a decent RF shielded power board is a must. The ones I use are made of thick solid copper ( gold plated - see below) and are the only ones I have used in my system that completely eliminate interference and noise from other power sources. It has no filters but works much better than the audiophile filtered types I have tried.

Posted Image


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#74 Tasso

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:15 PM

Hey Tasso, that looks really interesting. I'd like to give it a try. Can I have the details.


My particular ones are made by a Hong Kong company JAS Audio and I bought them from a store there called HIFI Tone. Here is the product link

http://www.hi-fi-ton...2/169812/173092

I bought them a couple of years ago and they were cheaper than the Isoclean units.

For the more adventurous they could try this but best handled by a qualified sparky

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4aad21380f

Edited by Tasso, 19 October 2012 - 10:32 AM.


#75 harreysmith

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

Would like to see if the power cable makes difference in my system. Do you guys think that this cable is worth the go:
http://www.ebay.com....=item4608a86775
Thanks in advance.

I would not trust or look at buying those cables they would not even comply to our australian standards ,
I use the vfm 1.5 from rkcable , worth having a look , cable prices start from $75.00
http://www.rkcable.c...FMpowercord.htm

#76 TLL

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

For DIYer, this is very a good choice (very liquid sound, same cable used in Power Max III), suitable for source to power amp

http://www.ebay.com....3#ht_3431wt_689

Alternative, this one is also good but more system dependent (a bit lean on some system)

http://www.ebay.com....=item2ec208ca42

#77 TLL

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:59 PM

For power plugs, I bought from here

http://ab-system.hk/

http://www.ab-system...&product_id=177

#78 Tasso

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

I would not trust or look at buying those cables they would not even comply to our australian standards ,
I use the vfm 1.5 from rkcable , worth having a look , cable prices start from $75.00
http://www.rkcable.c...FMpowercord.htm


What is wrong with the cables? These are the only ones mentioned so far that actually have an Australian plug. Since when have cables with USA plugs become more compliant for use in Australia than ones with Australian plugs?

#79 pete_mac

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:50 PM

For power plugs, I bought from here

http://ab-system.hk/

http://www.ab-system...&product_id=177


I'm a big fan of the GaoFei gear. Granted, much of the design is 'borrowed' from Furutech, but it is exceptionally well made for the money.

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#80 VA50

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:52 PM

I don't say power cables can't make a difference or that they can because i haven't personalty tried it myself and it would be pointless on my system when the whole thing is worth what just one of the speakers in some of the members on here's systems are worth.

That said if i look at things in a technical way, Sure better cables can help but only to a certain extent. If your cables are thin cheap things than i can see them not being as good. But once the cables are better than the houses wiring hows it going to help? It's like joining a skinny water hose to a thick water hose, The water flow wont change because it is forever going to be limited to the skinny hose. Reverse this so the thick hose is supplying the skinny hose and now things get restricted by the skinny hose.
I think people often spend a ton of money on something that doesn't make a difference and they have to believe it made a difference to justify having just spent so much money. I admit i am too guilty of this. So as for whether cables do make a difference or not, i can't say because i haven't tried it. But in my opinion i highly doubt it and only see the point for having quality cables because they a durable and look good.

The chase for perfect sound is never ending.


#81 qwerter

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

These are the only ones mentioned so far that actually have an Australian plug. Since when have cables with USA plugs become more compliant for use in Australia than ones with Australian plugs?

That was what I was actually looking for...

#82 ozmillsy

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

. But once the cables are better than the houses wiring hows it going to help? It's like joining a skinny water hose to a thick water hose, The water flow wont change because it is forever going to be limited to the skinny hose. Reverse this so the thick hose is supplying the skinny hose and now things get restricted by the skinny hose.

The in wall wiring is generally heavy duty in my experience. It's a good analogy that supports the theory of improvements in sound, as opposed to disproving it. IMO.
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#83 Tasso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:54 AM

That was what I was actually looking for...


Finding an audiophile style cable with a decent Australian plug is very rare particularly with shielding and such a heavy gauge wire.. Furutech make an Australian plug but that sells for around $120 for the plug alone. I have bought a couple of similar cables from ebay in HK in the past to connect from the mains to the copper power bars in the photo above. They have worked flawlessly - as good as the "name" brands and have contributed to the absence of RF and other interference in my system.

I will probably order one of these too.

Edited by Tasso, 20 October 2012 - 10:56 AM.


#84 VA50

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:23 AM

The in wall wiring is generally heavy duty in my experience. It's a good analogy that supports the theory of improvements in sound, as opposed to disproving it. IMO.


I agree as my post was not trying to disprove or prove. That said, house wiring is fairly cheap.

The chase for perfect sound is never ending.


#85 Tasso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:37 AM

I agree as my post was not trying to disprove or prove. That said, house wiring is fairly cheap.


To get the best outcome for electrical power I had an electrician run an extra heavy duty power cable from the power box at my house to the listening room. I was specifically looking to have a power source of sufficient capacity to run my whole system with a common ground wire. This may be a bit more critical with valve amps but it couldn't hurt in any system.

Edited by Tasso, 20 October 2012 - 11:39 AM.


#86 harreysmith

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 04:44 PM

What is wrong with the cables? These are the only ones mentioned so far that actually have an Australian plug. Since when have cables with USA plugs become more compliant for use in Australia than ones with Australian plugs?

The cable would not be allowed to be sold in australia as first thing you would pick up as it does not comply to AS/NZS3112:2004

The domestic mains power supply in Australia is 240V AC, 50Hz. Standard 3-pin earthed power outlets are rated at 10Amps and are usually switched. The 3-flat-pin plug is used in all states of Australia (including its external territories), New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. Although the configuration is similar to mains plugs used in mainland China, dimensional differences to the plug body may be incompatible with recessed cord socket and prevent Chinese-compliant CPCS/CCC (CCEE) plugs from being legally sold/used in Australia. Argentina also uses a similar 3-flat-pin configuration as Australia, but with slight dimensional differences and with the active and neutral wires being reversed. These important differences prevent the Argentina-compliant IRAM plugs from being legally sold/used in Australia as incorrect polarity may present an electrical safety hazard.
The Australian mains plug configuration was originally presented as provisional standard C112 in 1937, formalised as Standard C112 in 1938, redesignated AS3112 in 1981 and harmonized with the New Zealand standard and redesignated AS/NZS3112 in 1993. Australian Standards AS/NZS 3112:2000 and AS/NZS3112:2004 for Australian Mains Plugs now define the requirements for the insulation of the Active and Neutral pins of the plug. 15Amp and 20Amp configurations of the mains plug and outlet are also defined by the standard
China CPCS-CCC (Chinese 10 A/250 V)




Posted ImageChinese compound socket accepting NEMA and Europlug (upper) and Australian (lower) plugs
The standard for Chinese plugs and sockets is set out in GB 2099.1‐2008 and GB 1002‐2008. As part of China's commitment for entry into the WTO, the new CPCS (Compulsory Product Certification System) has been introduced, and compliant Chinese plugs have been awarded the CCC Mark by this system. The plug is three wire, earthed, rated at 10 A, 250 V and used for Class 1 applications; a 16 A version also exists. The Australian plug fits, though the pins on the Chinese plug are thinner and 1 mm (0.039 in) longer. China also uses American/Japanese NEMA 1‐15 sockets and plugs for Class-II appliances. The voltage at a Chinese socket of any type is 220

There are also other factors to be taken into account such as insulation thickness , cable or wire colours , cable size and also individual strand size not exceeding 0.26 mm squared solid core is not allowable .

ask the seller if he has public and product liability insurance on his products .

Edited by harreysmith, 20 October 2012 - 05:02 PM.


#87 Tasso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 05:33 PM

The cable would not be allowed to be sold in australia as first thing you would pick up as it does not comply to AS/NZS3112:2004


ask the seller if he has public and product liability insurance on his products .


By that standard, there are no complying HIFI quality IEC cables sold for the Australian market. Most have USA style connectors which operate at 120V, or European style connectors at 230V. At least these ones can fit an Australian socket! Even the other ebay cable with an Aussie plug would not qualify for the reasons you allude to.

In terms of safety and construction, the HIFI cables with Australian/Chinese Plugs I have bought in the past have infinitely superior plugs to the flimsy Clipsal rubbish we get here in Australia - a comparison that my sparky also agreed with when I showed him. As are the electrical cables themselves with thicker insulation and shielding that is not available locally. If anything remotely decent was available locally that was fully compliant, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Edited by Tasso, 20 October 2012 - 05:33 PM.


#88 holdencaulfield2007

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 05:50 PM

By that standard, there are no complying HIFI quality IEC cables sold for the Australian market. Most have USA style connectors which operate at 120V, or European style connectors at 230V. At least these ones can fit an Australian socket! Even the other ebay cable with an Aussie plug would not qualify for the reasons you allude to.

In terms of safety and construction, the HIFI cables with Australian/Chinese Plugs I have bought in the past have infinitely superior plugs to the flimsy Clipsal rubbish we get here in Australia - a comparison that my sparky also agreed with when I showed him. As are the electrical cables themselves with thicker insulation and shielding that is not available locally. If anything remotely decent was available locally that was fully compliant, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

It is a very sweeping statement to say "flimsy Clipsal rubbish" as all of those plugs comply with Australian Standards which are easily able to be researched.What are the Chinese Standards ? Can you download a PDF which shows them? I am not going to make a sweeping statement and say all Chinese products are rubbish as I suspect only some of them are. This whole area is quite subjective as many people are happy with the US style power leads even though they have no official compliance to be used in Australia. Caveat Emptor!

#89 Tasso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 06:19 PM

It is a very sweeping statement to say "flimsy Clipsal rubbish" as all of those plugs comply with Australian Standards which are easily able to be researched.What are the Chinese Standards ? Can you download a PDF which shows them? I am not going to make a sweeping statement and say all Chinese products are rubbish as I suspect only some of them are. This whole area is quite subjective as many people are happy with the US style power leads even though they have no official compliance to be used in Australia. Caveat Emptor!


It is indeed a sweeping statement but one I do not make lightly. It comes from years of trying to run with Aussie electrical accessories and being forced to face the conclusion that Australia seems to have lower official standards than some other countries. Take the standard UK plug for instance, very robust, thick pins and capable of taking heavy gauge wire. The cable is secured to the plug with a screw clamp and fitting the wires is a simple process. The whole unit is solid and is screwed together. By contrast, our very own Clipsal is much smaller and of light ( flimsy?) construction. It cannot take any decent gauge wire, there are no clamps to secure the wire ( each wire must be wrapped around its respective post) and the thin plastic casing is forced into position - no screws or solid body for strength.

If you look closely at the photo's in the ebay ad the OP initially enquired about, the plugs are solid and robust, the wires have very thick insulation and are shielded. For the price, I think its pretty good. I bought one and will report back unless someone does before me.

Edited by Tasso, 20 October 2012 - 06:23 PM.


#90 Nigel

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:08 PM

Power supply in terms of available current is very much like the city's water supply, which is the dam.
In audio equipment, the dam is the capacitor(s) after the transformer inside the amp, preamp, cdp, tuner.
If the dam is full because the rainfall has been adequate, then no amount of extra rain is going to achieve anything.
Even ordinary power leads will keep the capacitors topped up.So the issue is not about 'available current'.
The only other thng left is the discussion about noise and shielding.
Again, the point about 2 or 3 metre of shielding vs 30m of unshielded cabling in the walls.
No amount of shielding will clean up the noise that is already on the lines befre it gets to your house plus your household appliances ..
Dedicated power supplies, dedicated earthing, power cleaning seem worth considering, but exotic 3m power cables ??!! WTF ??
Plenty of people were cured by snake oil...... it wasn't the snake oil that did it....but they are convinced it was.
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.