47 replies to this topic

[woadl]

Hello Everyone I would like to share my listening experiences with these speaker over the last month.




Over the last 6 years I have had Quad ESL speakers I started with the ESL 2805 for a few years and then moved onto the Quad ESL 2905, both speakers were a joy to listen too. For those of you that have never heard a pair it’s a sound that stays with you in your mind and everything you listen too after that you are always comparing the sound of that speaker to the reference that is stored in your mind, a remarkable sound.



Due to circumstances I could see in the future the need to move to a smaller speaker and I made the difficult decision to sell the Quads. So what next??


I had been reading on the forum a lot about Lenehan speakers and had the opertunity to listen to a pair of ML 1. I must say the sound was amazing in particular the mid range was very comparable to my Quads, but I wanted more bottom end, so when the ML 2 started to be discussed on the forum I followed them with great interest.

Well I made several phone calls to Mike and we had some long discussions about speakers and sounds and before I knew it I had ordered a pair of ML2 Reference and the matching stands…. I have never ordered a pair of speakers before without listening to them, but I was comfortable with Mike’s philosophy and I must say what a genuine, helpful person he is, there was never a hint of hard sell at all.

Well after a wait of about 5 weeks they finally arrived late on a Friday and between me and the driver we struggled to carry these things in to the lounge, the driver could not understand why they weighed so much!!

As it was late Friday and we had already started to have a couple of drinks I waited until the next day to put them together.
First off I built the stands and as noted in another thread these are built like Sherman Tanks my advice to anyone building these stands to do it very close to where they are going to sit!!

Next was the unpacking of the speakers…they looked superb!! I went for the gloss black and was very impressed with the quality of the finish of these speakers, they just oozed quality.
I was very fortunate about 5 years ago to have a tour of the Focal speaker factory in France and I have seen firsthand what goes into making a speaker with such a finish, it is a long process so Mike well done!!

Next step was to lift the speakers on to the stand and make sure they sit evenly on the base plate. They are held on by BluTac , I think the best way to do this is to get help from a friend to make sure they are sitting evenly. Well that was it, I connected the speaker wire, warmed up my equipment and very nervously sat down to listen to a bit of music after all these are the replacements for my Quad ESL’s so I didn’t know what to expect

I realised that they need to be run in and the sound I would start with was only the beginning but from the initial listen I had a big smile on my face!!!!
The bass was tight and had weight, the mid’s were good but not quite as good as the Quads and the same with the Top end, but this was just the start and I was not going to make any judgements until a proper burn in time.
Over the next few weeks my friends were calling me to ask my opinion and to come over for a listen; I was putting them off till I thought they were ready.

Well last week everything has changed, the sound has opened right up from left to right and back to front, the midrange has smoothed out and the top end is brilliant with no trace of brightness or edginess.
I am rediscovering my music…in fact I am listening to the music not the speakers!! What is amazing is the detail particularly in the bass area that I am hearing, these speakers are fast, very fast they go so deep in bass that you just think it is not possible for such a small speaker.
I find that my listening sessions are long without fatigue and what I have noticed that they seem to be sucking up more power than when I first got them but what I think is happening is as they have freed up I can just keep listening to them at higher volumes without noticing how high I have them.

I had a few people around now to have a listen to them and they had heard my system before with the Quads and they are of the same opinion, they just sound BRILLIANT in fact these speakers have been the source of a lot of Productivity lost as we just keep listening to them and ignoring our jobs !!!!

So are they better than the Quads? in some areas yes and in some areas no but those areas are very close, you must remember that the quads are well over $18000 and the ML2 Reference are around the $8500 delivered to Perth and I believe that the prices may be rising, but what I do know is that I am listening to my music again, rediscovering and hearing things I haven’t heard before and just having a hell of a good time!!

I cannot wait to get my hands on a pair of AMG Toppers to hear what they do, I just keep thinking can they make them sound better again, is that possible ??


Mike hats off to you on a job well done


Just thought I would tell you what I was driving these speakers with. I have a
Rega P5 modified

Wellbourn Labs Ultrapath Valve Pre Amp

Quad Eighty Valve Mono Blocks

Audio GD Dac 7

Audio GD 7 CD Player

Auraliti Media Player

Anyone that is thinking of buying these speakers and would like to have a listen to them are quite welcome to PM me to arrange a time

Well it looks like I have raved on a little too long and I must say that I am not used to writing comments on this forum but I just had to let you know how brilliant these speakers are !!!

Cheers

Brian

[frankn]

I keep hearing good things about Mike's speakers. If I ever decide to change my 2905's I think the ML speakers would be on the short list to listen to. I'd like to hear both the ML2 & ML3 Ref speakers. There appears to be a big jump in the price of the ML3 Ref over the ML3+R which isn't mirrored in the ML2 range. Glad to hear that you are very happy with your purchase, it is what it is all about, keeping us listening to music, more music.
Quad 2905s can be purchased new for a lot less than $18K.
Regards
Frank

[woadl]

Hi Frank I have just found out there's a new Quad being released so they must be doing some specials on them
They are called the ESL 2912 not on there website yet

[kdoot]

Brian, I'm so jealous... waiting for Mike to finish building my pair, and now that I know it's so close my calm is starting to unravel a little in anticipation.

Glad to hear you're satisfied with the result. Can't imagine ordering a boutique $8,500 speaker package without having ever heard one though!

[flemo]

Hi Brian,

It's been a while mate!

Nice write up. I'll have to head up that way for a listen soon?

After hearing Murray's (MCB) ML2's, it will be interesting to hear yours with a completely different front end, and room. I may suggest to Murray that we both head up together if that's okay?

Cheers, Pete.

[Hensa]

What the ........ No piccies!

Nice write-up Brian, but we need some snapshots!

[datafone]

Nice write up. Brian, they sure must be sounding nice with that gear you have

[woadl]

Thanks Guy's for your kind words

Peter no problems just give me a call to arrange a time or PM me

Kdoot..... you will not be dissapointed

[flemo]

Thanks Guy's for your kind words

Peter no problems just give me a call to arrange a time or PM me

Kdoot..... you will not be dissapointed

Excellent mate, looking forward to it. Will be in touch soon.

Pete

[kunalraiker]

All is good, but what worries me is the harshness in the treble you found initially, really ?

Allow me to say, that is not a sign of a good speaker set unless the recording is extremely flawed.

Burn-in ? Lets just say its debatable whether it makes any difference.

[woadl]

All is good, but what worries me is the harshness in the treble you found initially, really ?

Allow me to say, that is not a sign of a good speaker set unless the recording is extremely flawed.

Burn-in ? Lets just say its debatable whether it makes any difference.

Hello Kunalraiker....did I mention harshness ????

[A J]

All is good, but what worries me is the harshness in the treble you found initially, really ?

Allow me to say, that is not a sign of a good speaker set unless the recording is extremely flawed.

Burn-in ? Lets just say its debatable whether it makes any difference.

I would guess on a majority percentage within SNA accept the speaker burn-in theory, while I'm sceptical of cable burn-in, I can see how a new speaker driver can loosen up during the first few dozen hours or so and how that might impact the sound, much like a car running in where the motor loosens up and gets into its stride.

Good write up Brian - glad to hear you are getting so much enjoyment

[kunalraiker]

Hello Kunalraiker....did I mention harshness ????

Let me quote you.

"Well last week everything has changed, the sound has opened right up from left to right and back to front, the midrange has smoothed out and the top end is brilliant with no trace of brightness or edginess."
May be not harshness but edginess - last time I checked the two meant closely the same thing.

[A J]

why does this always happen to Lenehan threads?

[John H. Darko]

Not really the place for a speaker burn-in debate is it? But definitely the place for the OP share his enjoyment of his new speakers.

[John H. Darko]

(...sorry, not trying to sound like a moderator.)

Enjoy your journey.

[Vortexjah]

why does this always happen to Lenehan threads?

hahahaha

[firefly0071]

Another fine example of an Oz speaker manufacturer that can compete with the world!

[woadl]

Let me quote you.

"Well last week everything has changed, the sound has opened right up from left to right and back to front, the midrange has smoothed out and the top end is brilliant with no trace of brightness or edginess."
May be not harshness but edginess - last time I checked the two meant closely the same thing.

Say what you will but I know what I have and the sound I am getting
It is just so natural and easy to listen too, you are listening to the music and forgetting about the equipment

[datafone]

Enjoy the ML-2's Brian

All is good, but what worries me is the harshness in the treble you found initially, really ?

Allow me to say, that is not a sign of a good speaker set unless the recording is extremely flawed.

Burn-in ? Lets just say its debatable whether it makes any difference.

it maybe debatable, but It's also factual IMO.

Enjoy the ML-2's Brian

[Nada]

I know what I have and the sound I am getting

too right ...its only your experience that has any validity in your listening
thanks for sharing your joy
I wonder if the sound will keep evolving as the drivers and cross overs loosen up?

if you really want to open up the speakers use a track with big dynamic swings, put the speakers face to face, connect one speaker in opposite phase, throw a quilt over them and let them work out..just watch how much juice you give them

[ehtcom]

Enjoy the ML-2's Brian
it maybe debatable, but It's also factual IMO.

Enjoy the ML-2's Brian

Agreed. A speaker driver, being and electro-mechanical device does need time to run in. I personally found that my Fostex FE206e loaded horns bass improved with use.

Cheers, Earle.

[mr-happy-pants]

It is a physical device with moving parts & magnetic flux.

Something has to change over time eg burn in, run in, whatever.

you can't change physics.

I swear my Focal drivers changed over ~50 hours of use.

Maybe some can't hear the difference

Graham

[Dr X]

It is a physical device with moving parts & magnetic flux.

Something has to change over time eg burn in, run in, whatever.

you can't change physics.

Think it depends on the individual speaker on the level of change.
Remember, some things are measurable but taken in isolation are pretty much inaudible or at a bees dick level.
Anyway it seems ML speakers are suppose to be run in when you get them.
From: http://www.lenehanau...3-speakers.html

As with all the ML series the Xover is hand built and hardwired.
After run in each Xover is handtuned to each host loudspeaker in front of a measurement microphone to a virtually zero tolerance.
Each Xover is subtly different to every other ML Xover because each Loudspeaker itself is an individual unto itself
The end result though is imaging and soundstaging perfection.

Cheers.

Edited by Dr X, 20 August 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[kunalraiker]

Think it depends on the individual speaker on the level of change.
Remember, some things are measurable but taken in isolation are pretty much inaudible or at a bees dick level.
Anyway it seems ML speakers are suppose to be run in when you get them.
From: http://www.lenehanau...3-speakers.html

As with all the ML series the Xover is hand built and hardwired.
After run in each Xover is handtuned to each host loudspeaker in front of a measurement microphone to a virtually zero tolerance.
Each Xover is subtly different to every other ML Xover because each Loudspeaker itself is an individual unto itself
The end result though is imaging and soundstaging perfection.

Cheers.

Does it mean Mike visits you past the burn-in to tune your Xover?

[datafone]

So, yet again, a few choose to pollute an ML thread, some things never change.

Oh well...carry on.

Edited by datafone, 20 August 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Dr X]

So, yet again, a few choose to pollute an ML thread, some things never change.

Well I can't speak for the others but if reporting actual facts from the manufacturers website is considered "pollution", then you've confused me more than you normally do.

Remember, rock n roll ain't noise "pollution"

[GraemeB]

If people did a bit of easy research on Mike's website they'd find he says that all speakers are factory run-in for 200 hours. Then the x-overs are finally tested and tuned as necessary before dispatch to the new owner.

I'm a bit puzzled by some members choosing to enter a thread and misundertand/misquote/cherry-pick other members' posts as with the OPs original post.

Sticking a little 'smiley' at the end of such a post doesn't hide the seemingly passive-aggressive nature of its intent.

If, on the other hand, I've misunderstood or misrepresented these posters, I apologise.

woadl, thanks for taking the time to post your initial experiences with the ML2Refs.

Edited by GraemeB, 20 August 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[woadl]

It's a shame people get caught up on facts and figures, you just have to use your ears. Maybe some of these people dont have the equipment to pick up these small details ?.
After all we all hear sounds differently and what I like may not be to other peoples taste
At the end of the day I am very happy with them and they are doing everything I thought they would do
Do I miss my Quads ??......no not at this point I am just enjoying my music

thanks guy's for all your input if you can get the chance just have a listen to them you will be suprised

[Davey Willo]

I would love an opportunity to hear them if at all possible.

[datafone]

Well I can't speak for the others but if reporting actual facts from the manufacturers website is considered "pollution", then you've confused me more than you normally do.

Remember, rock n roll ain't noise "pollution"

The objection is you trying to debunk the owners personal experience, It's his personal review of a new pair of speakers that he is obviously very happy with.

But back to the thread

Brian, let use know how it all progresses

[Dr X]

The objection is you trying to debunk the owners personal experience.

But I didn't try to do that!
If you take the time to actually look what's going on rather than acting like the guardian angel fanboi, you'll notice that I responded to mr-happy-pants post, not the OP's.
I care not to respond to the OP's. In case you don't really get the gist of it, in a forum there are typically threads within a thread.
Please don't tell me what I'm doing or trying to do, especially when you're wrong.

Edited by Dr X, 20 August 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[wolster]

It's a shame people get caught up on facts and figures, you just have to use your ears. Maybe some of these people dont have the equipment to pick up these small details ?.
After all we all hear sounds differently and what I like may not be to other peoples taste
At the end of the day I am very happy with them and they are doing everything I thought they would do
Do I miss my Quads ??......no not at this point I am just enjoying my music

thanks guy's for all your input if you can get the chance just have a listen to them you will be suprised

Congrats on the new speakers, Brian and thanks for your thoughts.
Has Perth become the new centre of the Lenehan customer universe?

[mr-happy-pants]

If any of you are having a crack at me (some haven't referred to anyone in particular), I was trying to support the OP.

To the OP. Exciting times!

To anyone who thinks I am polluting this thread. Go bite ya bum!

Graham

[bhobba]

Thanks for the great write-up Brian. Your reaction is very similar to what myself and others who heard ML2's thought. Incredible tight and extended bass for a speaker their size with superb midrange and natural highs.

Regarding the burn in issue I don't recall Mike saying on his current website he does 200 hours burn in before tuning and having them delivered. Most certainly you can request that to be done and I always get it done on any speakers I take delivery of from him but I don't think its the norm. My observation is most people want them as quick as possible so don't want to wait for that length of burn in.

And its not the drivers that change with burn in - they burn in very very quickly - its Duelund capacitors (evidently the dielectric and other stuff aligns as well as stuff settling) - they take many many hours - and the change is very evident and easily heard.

Thanks
Bill

Edited by bhobba, 20 August 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[datafone]

If any of you are having a crack at me (some haven't referred to anyone in particular), I was trying to support the OP.

To the OP. Exciting times!

To anyone who thinks I am polluting this thread. Go bite ya bum!

Graham

"polluting this thread"

Well that's a statement I used, and I wasn't referring to you mate

I was referring to those that have apparently taken exception to the burn-in experienced by the OP.

Edited by datafone, 20 August 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[rantan]

Congrats on the new speakers, Brian and thanks for your thoughts.
Has Perth become the new centre of the Lenehan customer universe?

It must be something in the water Wol.

Perth is about as far from the Gold Coast as one can be in Australia and yet it's Lenehan central.

Perhaps Mike will open a branch facility in Perth to cope with the demand.





I would love to do my bit for this sad old town but I am fiscally challenged for a while, but as some geek said " never say never "

Edited by rantan, 20 August 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[GraemeB]

Here's the bit on Mike's site re-running in: (I found this at bottom of ML2Ref specs page).

"All specifications may be subject to change without notice.Each pair of ML2 Reference are stringently tested, run in for 200 Hrs on music signal, then hand tuned and supplied with their own frequency, phase and impedance plots."

So I was wrong in writing that this applied to ALL speakers.

woadl's review is bringing me closer to deciding whether to go the ML2 route...aided by the passion of Mike L himself, and Bill H!

[flemo]

I am really looking forward to hearing woadl's ML2 set up after hearing MCB's. It will be interesting to compare as both front end's are completely different.

My understanding from the ML1 tragics is 350 to 500hrs burn-in is required before they really open up and show what they can do. ML2's, I have no idea, but I would imagine they would be similar.

[datafone]

But I didn't try to do that!
If you take the time to actually look what's going on rather than acting like the guardian angel fanboi, you'll notice that I responded to mr-happy-pants post, not the OP's.
I care not to respond to the OP's. In case you don't really get the gist of it, in a forum there are typically threads within a thread.
Please don't tell me what I'm doing or trying to do, especially when you're wrong.

It's how it appeared, apoligies if that was not your intention,

[kajak12]

(...sorry, not trying to sound like a moderator.)

Enjoy your journey.

Mr.Darko "enjoy your journey" has copy right laws

[A J]

I thought anyone could enjoy their journey
Hows yours these days Mario? Are you there yet?
Those ML1's of yours are still going strong here in Sydney

Edited by A J, 20 August 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[kajak12]

I thought anyone could enjoy their journey
Hows yours these days Mario? Are you there yet?
Those ML1's of yours are still going strong here in Sydney

Since the toppers arrived the ml1's received a turbo boost i was hoping the toppers don't make too much difference so i could spend $$$ on my V8,car will have to wait toppers are here to stay journey on hold until i buid a pair of open baffle bass units just like this,Subwoofers are a joke against this........Then the journey will come to the end

[LenehanAudio]

Hello Everyone I would like to share my listening experiences with these speaker over the last month.




Over the last 6 years I have had Quad ESL speakers I started with the ESL 2805 for a few years and then moved onto the Quad ESL 2905, both speakers were a joy to listen too. For those of you that have never heard a pair it’s a sound that stays with you in your mind and everything you listen too after that you are always comparing the sound of that speaker to the reference that is stored in your mind, a remarkable sound.



Due to circumstances I could see in the future the need to move to a smaller speaker and I made the difficult decision to sell the Quads. So what next??


I had been reading on the forum a lot about Lenehan speakers and had the opertunity to listen to a pair of ML 1. I must say the sound was amazing in particular the mid range was very comparable to my Quads, but I wanted more bottom end, so when the ML 2 started to be discussed on the forum I followed them with great interest.

Well I made several phone calls to Mike and we had some long discussions about speakers and sounds and before I knew it I had ordered a pair of ML2 Reference and the matching stands…. I have never ordered a pair of speakers before without listening to them, but I was comfortable with Mike’s philosophy and I must say what a genuine, helpful person he is, there was never a hint of hard sell at all.

Well after a wait of about 5 weeks they finally arrived late on a Friday and between me and the driver we struggled to carry these things in to the lounge, the driver could not understand why they weighed so much!!

As it was late Friday and we had already started to have a couple of drinks I waited until the next day to put them together.
First off I built the stands and as noted in another thread these are built like Sherman Tanks my advice to anyone building these stands to do it very close to where they are going to sit!!

Next was the unpacking of the speakers…they looked superb!! I went for the gloss black and was very impressed with the quality of the finish of these speakers, they just oozed quality.
I was very fortunate about 5 years ago to have a tour of the Focal speaker factory in France and I have seen firsthand what goes into making a speaker with such a finish, it is a long process so Mike well done!!

Next step was to lift the speakers on to the stand and make sure they sit evenly on the base plate. They are held on by BluTac , I think the best way to do this is to get help from a friend to make sure they are sitting evenly. Well that was it, I connected the speaker wire, warmed up my equipment and very nervously sat down to listen to a bit of music after all these are the replacements for my Quad ESL’s so I didn’t know what to expect

I realised that they need to be run in and the sound I would start with was only the beginning but from the initial listen I had a big smile on my face!!!!
The bass was tight and had weight, the mid’s were good but not quite as good as the Quads and the same with the Top end, but this was just the start and I was not going to make any judgements until a proper burn in time.
Over the next few weeks my friends were calling me to ask my opinion and to come over for a listen; I was putting them off till I thought they were ready.

Well last week everything has changed, the sound has opened right up from left to right and back to front, the midrange has smoothed out and the top end is brilliant with no trace of brightness or edginess.
I am rediscovering my music…in fact I am listening to the music not the speakers!! What is amazing is the detail particularly in the bass area that I am hearing, these speakers are fast, very fast they go so deep in bass that you just think it is not possible for such a small speaker.
I find that my listening sessions are long without fatigue and what I have noticed that they seem to be sucking up more power than when I first got them but what I think is happening is as they have freed up I can just keep listening to them at higher volumes without noticing how high I have them.

I had a few people around now to have a listen to them and they had heard my system before with the Quads and they are of the same opinion, they just sound BRILLIANT in fact these speakers have been the source of a lot of Productivity lost as we just keep listening to them and ignoring our jobs !!!!

So are they better than the Quads? in some areas yes and in some areas no but those areas are very close, you must remember that the quads are well over $18000 and the ML2 Reference are around the $8500 delivered to Perth and I believe that the prices may be rising, but what I do know is that I am listening to my music again, rediscovering and hearing things I haven’t heard before and just having a hell of a good time!!

I cannot wait to get my hands on a pair of AMG Toppers to hear what they do, I just keep thinking can they make them sound better again, is that possible ??


Mike hats off to you on a job well done


Just thought I would tell you what I was driving these speakers with. I have a
Rega P5 modified

Wellbourn Labs Ultrapath Valve Pre Amp

Quad Eighty Valve Mono Blocks

Audio GD Dac 7

Audio GD 7 CD Player

Auraliti Media Player

Anyone that is thinking of buying these speakers and would like to have a listen to them are quite welcome to PM me to arrange a time

Well it looks like I have raved on a little too long and I must say that I am not used to writing comments on this forum but I just had to let you know how brilliant these speakers are !!!

Cheers

Brian

Hi Brian well I'm utterly chuffed that you like the ML2Ref's ! I must admit to significant trepidation in respect of shipping this particular pair of speakers. You see for so many years my outright reference loudspeakers were stacked ESL57's in a custom way over the top frame support. I drove them with a pair of Allen Wrights handbuilt Valve Monoblocks which in turn were fed with a Crown 15IPS half track mastering tape recorder ! We used a pair of AKG Blumlien Mics and made our own recordings.

I can tell you those were the days ! all my designs are aimed at that idealogical target. Now with the advent of Asynchronous USB those days are within sight again ! I haven't heard the latest 2905's and was Waiting ! Waiting ! Waiting for feedback. My view is that the ole speaker cones in the ole speaker box can do it and do it better(in a holistic sense) than any of the current formats ! ( panels, Horns etc )

My brother is even going to sell his Quad 63's now and my other brother wants me to give him a pair of ML2Reference for a wedding present ! when sibling rivalry abates and family wants to do deals you know you've made it.

Once again Brian this is a valuable and usefull opinion I hope to get over there soon to hear your system . Best Regards Mike Lenehan
LenehanAudio

[LenehanAudio]

too right ...its only your experience that has any validity in your listening
thanks for sharing your joy
I wonder if the sound will keep evolving as the drivers and cross overs loosen up?

if you really want to open up the speakers use a track with big dynamic swings, put the speakers face to face, connect one speaker in opposite phase, throw a quilt over them and let them work out..just watch how much juice you give them

Hi Nada that's close ! it goes like this over here. Xovers are first burned in for 100hours by connecting 100watt resistors instead of woofers and tweeters to the Xover terminals.
voltage drive is important so they are driven to a level which produces the best results (the bass resistor is hot and the tweeter resistors just barerly warm) after that the Xover is married to it's drivers and enclosure (Xovers and drivers are not matched in any way at this point they just get pulled out of the box)
Two speakers are then driven by a mono music signal out of phase one woofer diaphragm can have a tiny white out dot at it's outer edge so you can set Xmax ) We use a 5 disc player with various burnt test signals and music discs. As Nada says throw a blanket over the pair and let her rip for 4days. DONE

For the naysayers I can say this ! if we dont do this we get people emailing or ringing saying Ahhhh ! Mike they sound ok but Ahhhh their a bit rough and narly it's makin me nervous !!! Then I say !! It's ok Shhhhh go to sleep ! when you wake up in the morning (200hours)everything will be fine. Not sure yet with the ML2 but I do know the ML1Ultra and Reference took nearly 400hours.

People that argue there is no loudspeaker or cable run in simply haven't or cant hear it ! running speakers in is terribly time consuming and expensive I guarantee you I wouldn't do it if it didn't make a difference.

Best Regards Mike Lenehan
LenehanAudio