31 replies to this topic

[yardley]

looking at getting a new projector and liked the picture quality of the mitsubishi hc9000 and the jvc which i think was the x3. anyone here have one of these projectors ? the mitsubishican be had for 5000 from west coast hifi at the moment down from 10 grand. the jvc is 6500 bucks

[DoggieHowser]

The JVC is an older model. Been out for at least a year. So you may be able to get a bargain for it. It's already superseded.

If you are looking at only 2D get the JVC. The contrast and black levels on JVC are amazing.

For 3D, DLP is still king. But its a pale shadow of the JVC for blacks and contrast.

[:) al]

Way too much for the jvc. New x30 I think retails for $5.5k street price think would be much lower.

Both pjs out of box need calibration. I understand some issues with the colour management system on the mitsu. And jvc x3 doesnt come with a full colour management to calibrate perfectly.

If spending so much I'd try get the newer model x70. As comes with full ifs calibration on board. And understand its pretty much like the x90 which have seen and is awesome.

Not seen the mitsu 9000 but understand it is the 3D king. The jvcs on other hand are pretty woefull on 3D !

Edited by :) al, 04 June 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[DoggieHowser]

A friend told me to avoid the middle model so I went straight to the RS60 aka X9.

That uses choice components. The memory chips used are higher spec and the lens and DILA panels are bin sorted higher grade. The X7 is just the X3 with a different firmware.

The X3 has a restricted color gamut which IMHO works quite well even without CMS. The X7/9 works very well in Xenon/Film mode.

[:) al]

if can afford an x90 ! sure grab it. but in australia pricing is such the x70 is actually the pick. x30 overpriced and x90 severely over priced. myself I know I'd go for the x70 for even the full calibration ability. there is a jvc official on youtube explaining how the new x70 is basically an x90 without the hand selected optics.

I wouldnt recommend a grey import on a pj such as this with no warranty here and the given the issues the jvcs have had on failures on their pjs of late not a good idea unless like playing russian roulette !

[Jliang70]

x3, x7 and x9 are quite different to x30, x70 and x90. X3, x7 and x9 were released in 2010. The CMS on jvc is not as well implemented as a dedicated video scaler such as DVDO Duo or Lumagen Radiance and that is why in US people who bought X3 and wanting CMS and better calibration features went with Lumagen radiance and DVDO. There was also the brightness issue with both x7 and x9. X70 and x90 now have the e-shift feature which x30 does not have. I have seen x70 I think the e-shift is well worth the extra over x30 but not great enough for me to upgrade from x3 and Lumagen combo.

[yardley]

THE MITSUBISHI was at ten grand down to 5 now. i only saw it for a few minutes and liked what i saw. i think i will just have to spend a day looking at pojectors and take along my own dvds and see which one comes up the best. my mate has a jvc but im not sure what model it is. thanks for all the good advice .

[Peter the Greek]

screen size and ambient light?

[yardley]

screen size and ambient light?

120inch screensize and what do you mean by ambient light? have a dedicated room for the projector so can make the room quite dark during the day.

[Peter the Greek]

Quite dark or completely dark? you'd be amazed at how much a little light can spoil things (wash out the blacks) - put it this way, leave the projector off but have the room ready for viewing (curtains I am guessing?) and look at the screen, how black it is? that is as black as your image is going to get, regardless of the projector.

The SMPTE standard is 16 foot lamberts (20+ is better).

The JVC wont do that on a screen that size, its not bright enough. I'd be looking an an Epson or the like

[DoggieHowser]

I know black levels are affected by stray or ambient light in the room but I don't see how this should affect the choice of the projectors with good black levels.

In my old room with no light control, I had in various stages, a Panasonic AE700, a Mitsubishi HC5000, a JVC HD1, a Panasonic AE3000, an old Optoma DC2 DLP, a JVC HD250, a JVC RS40 then a JVC RS60 and each time, it was clear when there was an improvement in black levels or contrast. Even during the day when the stray light was more obvious.

[Peter the Greek]

I'd humbly suggest it was better processing/ability to resolve detail in the projectors rather than deeper blacks.....perhaps not.

Anyway, foot lamberts is the reference - the cedia manual says:

"The image with a 100IRE raster should be measured at the primary viewing position and deliver a minimum of 28 foot lamberts +/- 3 foot lamberts with conventional lamps, which should insure a minimum of 14 foot lamberts throughout the duration of the useful life of the lamp. Projectors with light sources that do not lose light output over time should measure at least 14 foot lamberts using the same method."

[yardley]

what about the sony projectors? will have alook at a sony later this week i think its the model 30ES. has anyone seen the 95ES in action?

[DoggieHowser]

Sony uses a variation of the DILA technology that they call SXRD. It doesn't do blacks or contrast as well but it has very smooth motion especially for sports.

For 3D, they still exhibit ghosting tho it's slightly better than JVC. But nothing like the flicker free DLP 3D.

As a compromise all in one system, a friend of mine has had good results with the Optoma HD8300.

[yardley]

will try and have alook at the optoma8300 also. with most of the hifi shops closed down here in the west there aint that many places that sell projectors. west coast hifi seem to be the go ut im not sure that they sell the optoma brand.

[yardley]

the mitsubishi 9000 is a deleted model being replaced by the 7800. its alot cheaper the rrp compared to the9000 and does 3d very well which i want. ive decided between the jvc70 and the mitsi4800 as the projector that i will get.

[DoggieHowser]

I like 3D and all but if I had to choose just one projector to live with, I'd go with the JVC and just ignore 3D content.

2D images on the JVC look amazing.. great impact and the perception of depth is incredible.

[yardley]

doggiehowser what projector do you have? yeah im leaning more towards the jvc and just trying to get a good price. how much is a good price to pay for the jvc?

[sfdoddsy]

Your maximum (or minimum) black level is set by your room. If there is any light on the screen you will nt be abe to take full advantage of the JVC better blacks. So if you have any ambient light, other features become more important and a pj with lesser blacks may work out better.

The exception is pjs with a dynamic iris. You will still be able to see black level pumping.

Personally I would get the JVC because it has te potential to be better.

As for which model, I think the last few generations of JVC projectors have shown minor improvements since they were so good anyway. What has happened is the base models become as good as the previus top model. If you're not a total perfectionist, I would just get the cheapest one, or buy last year's used.

I have an HD750. Still love it.

Edited by sfdoddsy, 18 July 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[DoggieHowser]

Your maximum (or minimum) black level is set by your room. If there is any light on the screen you will nt be abe to take full advantage of the JVC better blacks. So if you have any ambient light, other features become more important and a pj with lesser blacks may work out better.

The exception is pjs with a dynamic iris. You will still be able to see black level pumping.

Personally I would get the JVC because it has te potential to be better.

As for which model, I think the last few generations of JVC projectors have shown minor improvements since they were so good anyway. What has happened is the base models become as good as the previus top model. If you're not a total perfectionist, I would just get the cheapest one, or buy last year's used.

I have an HD750. Still love it.

While it is true that the ambient light can affect black levels, I've found that for most given rooms, it is still very obvious moving from say an AE3000 Panasonic LCD to even an old JVC RS10.

[yardley]

the jvc 70 which i have seen is very good but only saw it in 2d. how much better is the jvc 90 then? would buying from one of these internet shops be ok as there prices seem alot cheaper than the retail shops. also has anyone bought a pj from the states? with the high aussie dollar it could be the go...

[yardley]

my mate has just bought a jvc x90 for 9 grand. he gets it this week so im looking forward to seeing it in action. the jvc on a 120inch screen ...

[:) al]

have seen the x90 when was at the melb av show. definitely a step up from the x30. with all the lamp and other issues with PJs with regard your previous comment yardley I dont think grey importing one from overseas a good idea.

[yardley]

ok al is the x90 much better than the x70

[:) al]

ok al is the x90 much better than the x70

couldnt tell you, I only saw the x90 back to back with the x30 the jvc guys had setup. I understand the x90 is upspec in components vs the x70. though use the same basis quite a hike up from the x90...probably want to check out for yourself to see if the price up is worth it. otherwise if the x70 gets a big slab of the x90 would be a bit of a bargain

[DoggieHowser]

Actually, I think the 90 uses better quality components than the 70. I found my (diff series but same design to the 90) RS60 to be much less flaky. Was told by my friend who services these projectors that the 40/50 are virtually identical just different firmware whereas the components on the 60 have better tolerances.

[yardley]

have seen the x90 when was at the melb av show. definitely a step up from the x30. with all the lamp and other issues with PJs with regard your previous comment yardley I dont think grey importing one from overseas a good idea.

yeah al i agree with not buying one from overseas. way to risky with no warranty if it doesnt work when it gets here. also it could get damaged in transit...

[snake666]

Mitsubishi hc9000d is awesome, fantastic images wiith my bluray,
take a look around http://audioaddictio...iew/66/194.html

[DoggieHowser]

Mitsubishi hc9000d is awesome, fantastic images wiith my bluray,
take a look around http://audioaddictio...iew/66/194.html

I think that's based off the old Sony SXRD panels. Great for 2D motion but not as good blacks and contrast as the JVC DILA. But still noticeable ghosting.

[yardley]

Mitsubishi hc9000d is awesome, fantastic images wiith my bluray,
take a look around http://audioaddictio...iew/66/194.html

i dont think the 9000 is available anymore and the new model the 7800 is DLP

[sfdoddsy]

While it is true that the ambient light can affect black levels, I've found that for most given rooms, it is still very obvious moving from say an AE3000 Panasonic LCD to even an old JVC RS10.

I'll have to disagree. The JVC strength is the absolute level of black compared to other projectors with no iris pumping. If you have any ambent light that absolute level goes up and the advantage diminishes.

My sparky was doing work on my place today and is considering a projector. Whilst I normally recommend JVC, i said to him what I would say the OP. Turn off all your lights and check whether your screen is truly black, ie invisible.

If not, that somewhat grey patch will be the best you can do for black levels and other things become more important such as brightness, processing, colour accuracy etc.

But unless you can start with an absolutely black room you will never experience the potential contrast ratio of the JVC projectors.

As for buying from OS, i've bought my last 4 or 5 projectors that way. It's not worth it for a cheap model, but certainly used to be for a JVC given the ripoff prices here. I buy B Stock from AVS. It's usually last years model for half this years.

There's no Aussie warranty, but still a US one if something catastrophic happens. It never has.

My current JVC has developed a a minor but annoying band, but would have out of warranty here as well.

Edited by sfdoddsy, 17 October 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[DoggieHowser]

I've used the same room and upgraded projectors moving from LCD to DILA to LCD to DILA and DLP at various times and it was always clear to me when the black levels are improved.

I use blackout curtains but do watch a fair bit of movies during the day when some light comes through. The walls are a mixture of light colored and darker toned paint so there is some reflection to the screen. That's the bare minimum for projectors though. And the improvements in the black and contrast are still noticeable.

If you can't even have black out curtains and there's light streaming through, you shouldn't even be considering projectors.