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New Three-Way Horn Project


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#1 atilsley

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:23 PM

Ever designing, building, tweaking etc, I think I've settled on a new design for my own personal two-channel listening set-up.

At present, I'm enjoying the two-way Klipsch 'Cornscala' based on Bob Crites' design. Excellent. I love the extension of the Faital Pro 1.4-inch comp driver for the 800Hz all the way up. The modded Eminence 15-inch woofers do a good job in the large (approx 200L) slot ported boxes. Overall sensitivity approx 96dB.

I'll dispense with the Faital Pro elliptical horn. Not fully sure on what to replace it, though I have started a separate project with a wood turning guy to build a new 40cm diameter horn (approx 450-500Hz).

This is paired to a new Weston Acoustics Time Machine 2A3 in Push-Pull config. I wanted the sweetness of the 2A3...but the grunt of Push-Pull for the bass drivers. With two valves per channel, I get the grunt and the sweetness. Perfect.

So - what I want to do now is bolster the bass response....particularly in the 80-200Hz range...so I'm going to sell off the Cornscala bass bins and build a new large front-loaded bass horn, which will be coupled to a large (250L) back chamber, 1300mm tall, 775mm wide, but only 250mm deep. (Any one interested in a great bass cabinet, let me know....)

I got the inspiration from the two-way horn built by CH Audio Designs. This design uses the multi-cell Altec horn, coupled with a nice field-coil driver. The bass is Altec 416.

The other design I like is the Cessaro Beta....this gives an idea of the size.

The Musique Concrete is another three-way..though priced at over $100,000.

I'm hoping I can retain my Eminence driver for the front-loaded horn. Will check it all out...else, I'll buy a GPA 416....especially after trialling their fantastic 604 co-ax's.

I built a cabinet for the Altec 604 (Great Plains) some time back, using Palesander veneer...so, I'd like to use this again. Quite lovely.

I will retain Bob's x-overs, and tweak these to add in the tweeter horn, which I'm yet to decide on what to use.

As I'm in Sydney, I'd appreciate any keen horn followers visiting with ideas etc.

Kind regards.

Andrew

Attached Files


Edited by atilsley, 17 May 2012 - 08:26 PM.

My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#2 atilsley

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:53 AM

Comparing T/S specs of the 416 altec driver with the Crites/Eminence driver:

Xmax 4.5mm (416) vs 7.0mm (Crites)
Fs 22.9 vs 26.3
Qts 0.21 vs 0.26
Qms 6.70 vs 9.93
Qes 0.22 vs 0.27

So - is the Crites woofer suitable in a front loaded horn (with ported cabinet)...aka similar to the VOTT A5/7....?

I see the frequence response is not as low as the 416...but I think I live with that. Sensitivity is the same...and xmax is OK.

I want to make sure the Qts, Qms and Qes measures are within comparable ranges.

Feedback appreciated.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#3 atilsley

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:51 PM

So, I'm wondering if the bass cabinet shouldn't be shorter...and surround the horn, thus still providing a LF response to approx 30Hz.

See attached drawing.

Volvotreter's mid bass is similar to what I want for the front loading aspect.....but the lower bass will come from the housing around the horn....similar to this Oris Horn set-up.

Another lovely pic here...Brentwood Horns.

The ALtec 817 is probably the closest commercial equivalent.

Attached Files


My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#4 Upfront

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:15 PM

Very cool. I'm not much help to you but I'll be watching with interest

#5 jaspert

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:29 PM

Good luck with the project. Looking forward to see how it all turns out later.
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#6 atilsley

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 01:19 PM

Very cool. I'm not much help to you but I'll be watching with interest


You and I alike....! Thanks
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#7 atilsley

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 01:20 PM

Good luck with the project. Looking forward to see how it all turns out later.


Thanks mate.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#8 atilsley

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:57 PM

So....after some planning with SNA'er Paul Spade, I've examined different mid bass subs, and will go with this type of horn.

http://www.hifiwigwa...M0-advice/page2

It is similar to the one on the Klipsch forum

http://itishifi.blog...z-to-600hz.html

I'll use B&C 12-inch drivers.

For the mid horn, I'm yet to decide on type...but am likely to now move to a paper driver, e.g. the well regarded Audax. Fane would be another choice, but this driver models well. Targeted range from 500Hz.

http://www.madisound...dax/pr170m0.pdf

Any thoughts on this driver going into an Azura 340?

Other horns?

Regards
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#9 atilsley

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:04 PM

Any thoughts on the Beyma CP25 horn tweeter...?

http://www.usspeaker...eyma CP25-1.htm
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#10 atilsley

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

Volti Audio did a small test on 5 types of horn tweeters. Beyma CP25 comes out on top.

http://www.voltiaudi...etter/NL3.shtml
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#11 atilsley

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:44 PM

Ebay $200 for pair of new Beyma CP21-F slot tweeters from US

http://cgi.ebay.com....#ht_4277wt_1139
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#12 Upfront

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:55 PM

It will be interesting to hear what you think of them if you end up with a pair.

#13 jaspert

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:58 PM

Ebay $200 for pair of new Beyma CP21-F slot tweeters from US

http://cgi.ebay.com....#ht_4277wt_1139


Remake of JBL 2405?
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#14 tuyen

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:22 PM

Looks like it mate.

Andrew, those 'baby cheeks' Beyma CP25 would be a good option with its good dispersion. Looks basically like a copy of the JBL 2404H. Will have a pair of these JBLs soon to try. I like the idea really wide dispersion (100x100degrees) tweeters so the sweet spot is less limited.


#15 atilsley

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:56 PM

Looks like it mate.

Andrew, those 'baby cheeks' Beyma CP25 would be a good option with its good dispersion. Looks basically like a copy of the JBL 2404H. Will have a pair of these JBLs soon to try. I like the idea really wide dispersion (100x100degrees) tweeters so the sweet spot is less limited.


Thanks. Yes...the CP25 gets a very good wrap on many forums.

Just gotta decide on the mids.

On Stereo Labs, there's a bundled deal with the lovely BMS neo co-ax driver with 240 Hz stone horns.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#16 Paul Spencer

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:07 PM

Is that EACH or for a pair?

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#17 Upfront

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:41 PM

Looks to be for a mono set. Azurahorns instead maybe?

Edited by Upfront, 29 May 2012 - 02:41 PM.


#18 atilsley

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

OK, moving ahead with some plans.


Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba sub (finished)

A 100Hz mid-bass horn (thanks Paul Spencer at Red Spade and John at Inlowsound) using well-regarded B&C 12PE32 12-inch drivers

A wooden turned horn similar to this, with Selenium D405 drivers, crossed around 500Hz

A wooden turned horn similar to this, with Selenium D220TI drivers, crossed around 5,000Hz.

Crossover is being developed/built by Bob Crites. See his crossovers' page here.

I've started discussions with a gent here in Sydney who's a retired wood-worker....so, we'll start some ply prototypes, then I'll probably build the proper horns in 30mm blocks of hardwood Silky Oak.

Any thoughts on my plan greatly appreciated.

Regards.

Andrew

Attached Files


My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#19 Paul Spencer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:14 PM

I can definitely see the appeal of the turned horns! They look great.

I would be a bit concerned about matching those passive crossovers with your project, for two reasons. One is that they don't appear to be designed for your project. A passive crossover is a custom design, which needs to be based on measuring the acoustic response of the drivers in the intended enclosure or horn. A good design is a very close fit which will usually fall down as soon as you change a driver. If you try to bring in the wrong crossover, hoping it will be "close enough," the result can be quite awful, compared to a proper design.

The other concern is that he is using inductors that appear questionable. Using transformers or iron cored inductors is probably a cost cutting measure, but you really want your money going into good and suitable parts rather than nice bits of cedar!

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#20 Captain Crunch

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:38 PM

Looking good Andrew. I've got a pair of Selenium D405 & D220Ti drivers to sell if you're interested in these drivers. Have you much listening experience with mega sized horns? My Cornscalas sound 'big', and l can only imagine what super sized horns sound like.
Wyred4Sound Dac-1 With Async USB, Wyred4Sound STi-1000 Integrated Amp, Yamaha RX-V3900 A/V Receiver, Ascension Centre & Surrounds, Wadia 170iTransport/iPod Classic, Oppo BDP-83 Blu-Ray.
Coming Soon: DIY 2-Way Cornscalas With Eliptrac 400 Horns/Faital Drivers & ALK xovers And One Pair Of DIY 12" GR Research/Rythmik Amp, Dual Driver Servo Subs!

#21 atilsley

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

Looking good Andrew. I've got a pair of Selenium D405 & D220Ti drivers to sell if you're interested in these drivers. Have you much listening experience with mega sized horns? My Cornscalas sound 'big', and l can only imagine what super sized horns sound like.


Hi Captain.

Only minutes ago I paid Bob for a full set of drivers and xovers...but I'm happy with that decision.

Also, I'm now leaning towards a set of the 250Hz and 1,000Hz StereoLabs stone/composite horns. A mid blue colour will be selected.

The customer projects from Stereolabs is a good read.

B&C drivers to be ordered today.

I will build a steel frame to mount the horns, and have this in satin black.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#22 atilsley

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:29 AM

Decided on StereoLabs horns...ordered today.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#23 k-k-k-kenny

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:32 PM

Totally beyond my technical comprehension, but always fascinating to read Andrew's projects. This may even surpass the beauty of the C-Horn.

Currently listening to: tinnitus


#24 Upfront

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

If it comes out looking anything like the first project on the projects page I'll take two pairs!!!! I hope there will be plenty of pictures of the build

#25 atilsley

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:41 PM

Totally beyond my technical comprehension, but always fascinating to read Andrew's projects. This may even surpass the beauty of the C-Horn.

I'm no technician...I'm an innovator and creator. I use help from folk here and OS for etch support. Paul Spencer has been a great help.

The thing with 'my' audio...is to give things a go and to be bold. Good audio comes from risks.

Recently I bought some pure silver cable from the UK...not too expensive....but had it made up in braided "High End Look" covers with quality terminals. The retail for this would be over $500. I spent $50....and I got a fantastic upgrade to my system. same with interconnects (but only silver coated on copper).

My Bill Fitzmaurice sub horn cost under $1,000....but the sound, oh boy. It literally moves you in the room...and makes for a very real and dynamic HT experience. Amazing. My point - give things a go...have fun.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#26 atilsley

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:57 PM

If it comes out looking anything like the first project on the projects page I'll take two pairs!!!! I hope there will be plenty of pictures of the build

You're too kind.

I'm yet to think through the set-up.

The pic on page one of the Projects is amazing...with all that chrome. I don't think I'll go down that path...but I do have a brother-in-law who's very handy with steel. Most likely I'll build a simple steel frame, and powder coat it in flat black.

For the bass modeule, I will build the 100Hz Inlowsound model, but I will have this facing down (sitting vertically)...with it off the ground by 35-40cm....then simply provide an angled baffle to port the sound forward. This will give improved extension. Importantly, it will mean I don't have to have the 90cm box sticking out into my room.

I've ordered the horns in a mid blue called Apollo Bay. Colour chart here.

The bass horn will be initially built in ply. I will either use a quality outer veneer...or I'll add an MDF outer layer for painting later. If the latter, then expect satin black, with Apollo Bay blue for the horn mouth. Volvotreter does it for me.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#27 Paul Spencer

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:02 PM

Andrew, I will be interested to see what you can create to get this horn looking good and not too big. The challenge with a midbass horn like this is the size. I must admit, I have been fighting off the temptation to do a bass horn like that myself below the Synergy! I keep having ideas like cutting holes in the wall with a straight horn poking out!

The thing with 'my' audio...is to give things a go and to be bold. Good audio comes from risks.


Amen to that!

And when the DIY bug bites really hard, the mistakes are just the entry fee into the school of learning by doing!

My Bill Fitzmaurice sub horn cost under $1,000....but the sound, oh boy.


I know what you mean!

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#28 Upfront

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:05 PM

Veneer or painted they will definitely be a statement in the room. I have a pair of 204 Azurahorns and there is always a look of shock when people enter the lounge for the first time.
I really like the look of zebra wood veneer (some looks good some looks rubbish) but it matches nothing in the house.
I like your attitude towards the project too. Go with your gut and have fun. Mistakes will happen either way so I find its the journey that makes me happy as much as the end result.
Keep it coming!

#29 atilsley

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:26 PM

Veneer or painted they will definitely be a statement in the room. I have a pair of 204 Azurahorns and there is always a look of shock when people enter the lounge for the first time.
I really like the look of zebra wood veneer (some looks good some looks rubbish) but it matches nothing in the house.
I like your attitude towards the project too. Go with your gut and have fun. Mistakes will happen either way so I find its the journey that makes me happy as much as the end result.
Keep it coming!

Thanks. Are the 204's in your moniker? What drivers are you using...and what bass config?
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#30 Upfront

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:43 PM

That's them. Poor picture. Lowthers at the moment. I've used a variety. Fostex, coral, national etc etc. Lowthers run fullrange down to 250hz and peerless woofers do what's left via a minidsp. Bit of fun. I have a pair of 550 Azurahorns with 902-8t Altecs that I will meld in a little later with a passive crossover. Not sure where to crossover yet.

#31 Upfront

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:46 PM

Forgot to say bass drivers are in a sealed box. Not ideal but live and learn. These will be the next change. Hence the interest in your thread.

#32 Paul Spencer

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:41 AM

Forgot to say bass drivers are in a sealed box. Not ideal but live and learn. These will be the next change. Hence the interest in your thread.


I was looking at some Celestion woofers as an option to go below a mid horn, all 18". One has 97 db in a 100L box that gets down to 50 Hz. Another has 96 db in a 150L box to 40 Hz. The other has 95 db in a 250L box to 30 Hz. All about the same max SPL. If you add in a sub then you are more free to go for lighter more efficient woofers. Perhaps even get up to 100 db with a pair.

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#33 atilsley

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:10 PM

That's them. Poor picture. Lowthers at the moment. I've used a variety. Fostex, coral, national etc etc. Lowthers run fullrange down to 250hz and peerless woofers do what's left via a minidsp. Bit of fun. I have a pair of 550 Azurahorns with 902-8t Altecs that I will meld in a little later with a passive crossover. Not sure where to crossover yet.


Paul speaks well of minidsp.

I've enjoyed Lowthers, Fostex, Visaton etc...but all in BLH's. I built a large cab for a gent using Oris/Lowther. See pic. We used 15-inch Audax drivers (98dB) with ports.

For my mid-bass...I'm really having to force myself forward on this...as the build is more tricky...hence the idea of building it 'rough' then finishing it off in MDF for painting. Almost all of my horns have been expanding with only two sides...not four like this sub. So angles, bevels etc all critical. I'm almost embarrassed to say (to Paul!) that I may still reconfigure the mid bass to a folded design which may be easier. However, I'm concerned that I may not get the 'magic'..especially in the 400-600 range.

My listening room is now rather puny...see fun pic attached. Exotic milk crates supporting 2-way bookshelfs. Look at all that room above for a wall mounted massive bass horn...!!!!!!!!

Andrew

Attached Files


My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#34 atilsley

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:15 PM

The La Scala is very good for 100-500

http://www.audiofana...la/LaScala.html
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#35 atilsley

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:25 PM

Hey, here's an idea...!

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My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#36 Upfront

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

My lounge is similar. About 4.5x5. Bought the house because it was the only one out of the 30 odd we looked at that fitted the speakers and cabinet! Oldish suburb with small rooms.
Thinking of a horn or large ported boxes. Still not sure. Might have to build both and see.

#37 Paul Spencer

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 02:41 PM

Thinking of a horn or large ported boxes. Still not sure. Might have to build both and see.


The thing to watch with a bass horn is making it too small for the cutoff. If you shrink a horn too much the price you pay is ringing.

Andrew, I have lots of ideas like that last one. One of my favourites is the entire front wall removed so it is a giant straight bass horn. The side walls are merely an expansion, so the "loading" goes beyond corner loading, but you sit in the horn mouth. Not only would it extend very low, but it would launch a plane wave (like a double bass array which is on the blog), meaning all room modes are eliminated except a few length modes (which would be really bad ones needing the entire back wall to act as a very good bass trap). In the ideal case, the back wall would be an exact replica, digitally time aligned and inverted in polarity to actively cancel all remaining modes. So then you would have a very low cutoff sub bass horn with unlimited output working as an anechoic subwoofer with no room decay issues at all. Does that sound like mumbo jumbo? In laymans terms, lots of good technical reasons to build something huge that is way over the top and sounds really good, and that will make you an audio forum nerd celebrity with everyone on every forum posting pictures of it about once a year.

Question. Are you going for the circus tent look? Otherwise I'd be thinking about getting into the corners. Think of it this way. Imagine a bass horn suspended in the air by a chopper. Really big! Now let's sit it on the ground. We call that half space. It now radiates into half of the infinite space, if that makes sense. We gain in theory 6 db, and the horn mouth can in theory be half the size now. Now let's add a wall behind it - again we've cut in half the "space" into which it radiates, horn mouth cuts down again, 6 db gained (again in theory, not quite in practice). We call that 1 pi space. Go one further step and add a side wall, so that the horn has 3 boundaries around it. Now we have corner loading, called 1/5 pi space, it's the same deal.

Now let's consider this ...

Posted Image

Question .... which loading is given to that bass horn in the middle? That would be 1pi loading! Looks cool in the brochures, and in this case makes it easier to fit into the room. What is that thing? It's actually quite simple. It is basically a modular bass horn, with 6 pieces of quarter pie. Each has IIRC a pair of 12" subwoofers, and they have designed them to work to about 40 Hz. Below that point, the above has 12 x 12" subs with lots of power, so it can fill out the bottom octave through sheer brute force of lots of drivers and power. It's a clever design, with curves you could construct one with some sheet metal that is easy to bend into shape, perhaps laminating a few layers joined with construction adhesive, until it's strong and well damped enough. And if getting CNC done you could cut a groove in the end plates. It need not be a difficult build. I was close to building one of these, until I did a quick 3D render of it in my room. Ugh! Too much space taken up! Dang! BTW, you could do a nice version with some Rythmik servo kits.

Now for those with a big room, or a big-ish room ... split it in half and put those in corners if you can. Using just 3 of them instead of 6, in a corner, achieves the same result, due to room loading. Use 6 modules in the corners (3 in each) and you effectively get the equivalent of double placed in the middle. Or, coming back down to earth a little more, just put one module on the ground in each corner, and put your horn on top. It's probably going to elevate your sound stage a bit, so you want to have a mid horn on top of that and probably not something like the trio.

Seeing that pic (Andrew), I had your other spot in mind, with the plantation shutters, now I see why the size restriction.

Back to your midbass horn ...

First idea that comes to mind is making the sides parallel with some ply. You lay it down on it's side when building, tracing out the curve then putting blocks so that you can then guide and bend say some 3mm MDF in laminations into the curve. I'm thinking the curve is probably gentle enough. Now the problem might be at the throat, where the aspect ratio gets a bit stretched. Hmmmm, there goes that idea. My next idea is to contruct it in 3D cad, so that you know the way to cut the four sides, with them all curved. You know the area at the throat, midpoint and mouth, and you go for a continuous curve that ties them together, whilst including the 90 degree corner bend. If you can model that, then you can cut the four sides out of 3mm MDF. Then join them together at both ends, throat and mouth. Now you lay it with the mouth facing down. Now cut a block that is the exact size of the mid point, propped up on a pole so that it is positioned in the middle of the horn. Could be tricky. The idea is to clamp all the walls to that piece, running glue along the edges, then pressing them together until they sit around this internal spacer. You would probably need to rig up something, maybe with occy straps to hold it together whilst the glue sets, in various places.

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#38 atilsley

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 06:16 PM

Thanks Paul...I've looked at those Avant Garde extensively.

Today, I made up a cardboard cut out of the horn...so I'm back on track and motivated.

Tonight, I bought 8 sheets of 6mm MDF to start the build. I'll develop a curved profile with each of the four horn sides being equal.

Q about the plan.

On Inlow's plan, there is the small section between the driver and the horn throat. Can this be 'non angled'? That is, can I simply set the driver back 1-2 inches from the horn throat?

I'm suggesting this, because I can then keep the back section of the cabinet shallower....I'd also do the same with the chamber behind the driver.

Andrew

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#39 carpenter

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:02 PM

Thanks Paul...I've looked at those Avant Garde extensively.

Today, I made up a cardboard cut out of the horn...so I'm back on track and motivated.

Tonight, I bought 8 sheets of 6mm MDF to start the build. I'll develop a curved profile with each of the four horn sides being equal.

Q about the plan.

On Inlow's plan, there is the small section between the driver and the horn throat. Can this be 'non angled'? That is, can I simply set the driver back 1-2 inches from the horn throat?

I'm suggesting this, because I can then keep the back section of the cabinet shallower....I'd also do the same with the chamber behind the driver.

Andrew


Hi Andrew,

I'm concerned about the fabrication process you used when you created your mock-up. I don't see vertical sides, and that's the foundation you use to create the inner top and bottom flairs. Don't cut up your MDF until we discuss your process.

#40 atilsley

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:38 PM

Hi Andrew,

I'm concerned about the fabrication process you used when you created your mock-up. I don't see vertical sides, and that's the foundation you use to create the inner top and bottom flairs. Don't cut up your MDF until we discuss your process.

Please explain more...as I see it as simple...I'll be preparing 4 equal sides horn flares per the original drawing from Inslow/Paul Spencer...
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#41 atilsley

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 07:58 PM

Hi Andrew,

I'm concerned about the fabrication process you used when you created your mock-up. I don't see vertical sides, and that's the foundation you use to create the inner top and bottom flairs. Don't cut up your MDF until we discuss your process.

Thanks...I'm building the horn internals first, then 'closing' it in with a full outer cabinet. I'll add four braces per the brace shown top/bottom on the plan.

Cut panels today, including mitre edges, and a router groove to create the bend in the MDF. Sourced some angled wood which I cut down into small pieces....these will be glued on the joins, then taped over to temporarily secure the horn.

Once built, I'll add another two or three layers of MDF and/or ply to bulk up the horn panels. Any gaps in the joins, I'll caulk, sand, paint etc.

Does anyone have an answer to my q re the angled section between the driver and the throat. How important is it that this is angled? Can I simply build this area up using, say, two or three layers of ply (e.g. doughnut shaped)...?

Andrew

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My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#42 Paul Spencer

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:09 PM

Hi Andrew,

It appears you are talking about the throat chamber which serves as an acoustic filter. If you are wanting to maximise top end extension then you can leave it out and the length is measured from the throat to the mouth along the cental axis. Remember the Volvotreter horn? Basically this would lead to a throat like that one, where you have no added throat chamber, but the volume of air in front of the cone acts as a very small one.

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#43 atilsley

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:19 AM

Ok, thanks Paul.

As I'm targeting around 500hz-550hz, would you suggest I retain this area? If so, is it important to angle the walls?

Regards
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.

#44 Paul Spencer

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:16 PM

With a crossover that high I'd say do it without the throat chamber that Inlow shows. What do you mean by "angle the walls?" Are you referring to the throat chamber?

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#45 atilsley

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:27 PM

On the Inlow drawing, the adapter leading to the throat is built up using four pieces of wood, angled at approx 45 degrees....creating a funnel effect towards the throat.

But, I think I'll take your advice and dispense with it.
My System: DIYEDEN DAC, Weston Accoustics 'Custom' Time Machine 2A3, 'Klipsch' Cornscalla Two-way Horns, pure silver interconnects and speaker cables.