201 replies to this topic

[atilsley]

Tonight I glued up the little 90 degree wood angles to half of the horn sides. Tomorrow the big day of bending and joining...yee ha.

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[Upfront]

A picture says a thousand words mate. Looking good. Keep them coming.

[atilsley]

90 degree connectors glued. Will build the horns tonight...

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[atilsley]

So, one horn glued up.....needed the help of Mrs and daughter...as it was very fidly.

However, the little 90 degree wooden adapters worked.

I'll now fill the joins and add 2-3 layers of ply/MDF to the outside.

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[atilsley]

Who's seen the new Vitavox web site?

The S2 drivers look stunning....

http://www.vitavoxhifi.com/main.php

[Upfront]

Nice to see it taking shape. I was wondering what the little right angle bit were for. Feel a bit silly for not putting it together!

[atilsley]

Nice to see it taking shape. I was wondering what the little right angle bit were for. Feel a bit silly for not putting it together!

They simple acted as guides...I nailed them into one set yesterday...when the glue went off, I could then put the horns together....'easy.'

[atilsley]

Love this pic...

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[atilsley]

Found this tonight...interesting.

http://www.diyaudio....ey-jackson.html

[Upfront]

If only I had the room....  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1338957971.028158.jpg   53.68K   27 downloads

[atilsley]

More horning tonight. Filled joins. For the second horn, I used router to create the mitred edges vs the jigsaw...much better.

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•  photo-12.JPG   95.68K   17 downloads

[atilsley]

Here's a pic of my listening position.

When I built my large Bill Fitzmaurice bass horn...I had thought about placing it in that space above the speakers, foring into the corner. I may still do that...but the sub is serving duties in the separate HT room...and doing a sterling, if a little frightening, job at it...!

So, I may design a new large bass horn, using a single driver, with the horn firing down towards the left corner.

Paul from Spade die a quick sim for me on a 6.2 meter horn with mouth size of 11,025cm (45cm deep by 245cm wide). The sim didn't look nice at all...very ragged.

But, there must be something 'fun' I can do to fill that void...and get a smooth response from 25Hz to 100...?

What about two tapped horns...on top of each other with horn openings oposing...?

Thoughts?

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[atilsley]

And room pic attached...!

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•  wall horn 3.pdf   553.41K   24 downloads

[atilsley]

Second horn finished tonight.

Ordered new pair of B&C PE32 drivers today from Parts Express...so I have all my parts ordered...!

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[atilsley]

Pic of listening position where I want to build the new bass horn.

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[Upfront]

looking good mate!

[atilsley]

OK, I have three 'wall horns' to think about.

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•  wall horn 2.JPG   52.2K   21 downloads
•  wall horn 3.JPG   59.25K   17 downloads

[atilsley]

OK, I have three 'wall horns' to think about.

First. dual 10 or 12 in

Seond. Dual tapped horns.

Third. Single horn with 15 in

[Upfront]

A
stereo horns are a great idea.

[atilsley]

A
stereo horns are a great idea.

Thanks....I certainly want to build horns....the only issue with option 1 is low frequency range. The horn path is relatively short...2.0m...and the mouth size is half that of option 3.
Are you able to SIM this? I might only get 30/35Hz.

See attached new version of the single horn.

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•  Wall horn 5.JPG   52.41K   4 downloads

Edited by atilsley, 08 June 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[Upfront]

Sorry mate hornsrep is not my friend.

[Paul Spencer]

Couple of suggestions. First, if using two drivers, aim for dual opposed to cancel vibrations. It makes a big difference, especially with a big box that you can't build too solidly.

Tapped vs FLH. If size is no object, then FLH will do a much wider bandwidth with a smooth response that behaves best in the time domain. Tapped horns can be much smaller, and they cover slightly less than 2 octaves as a rule, although you can extend the low end with room gain and actually get 2 octaves in many rooms. If you build a FLH of the same size, in other words one that is compromised, you will get similar smoothness, depending on the design of each. The tapped horn will control excursion to a lower frequency and have higher max SPL if you use a rumble filter. If you don't use a rumble filter, then the sealed chamber of the horn will actually keep the maximum excursion (well below horn cutoff) more contained. With a valve amp and music use, this aspect probably won't matter. When you start adding multiples, the FLH benefits from having the mouths couple together if clustered, but tapped horns don't seem to combine in that way.

[atilsley]

Thanks Paul......

Added a 2nd layer to the bass horns today...getting weighty!

For deadening...I will apply layers of underlay or other layer

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[Upfront]

I hope the Mrs didnt see that glue on the kitchen table!

[atilsley]

She is ok. It wiped off.

Now...Paul was earlier talking about dsp....I was shy of it...thought it too hard.

Now...I saw this -

http://www.decware.c...wsite/zkit2.htm

Suddenly...it all fits.

4 boards to run the top horns (SET)...good.

Then, a Krown power unit to run the bass horns....6 lines in all.

How do I then look after the output.....? Purpose built pre?

Looks like a luky person will get the brand new Weston 2A3.....!!! (Sad tho).

Thoughts?

[Upfront]

It would be a bloody nice amp for the midrange!
I use a pair of 300b mono blocks to run the lowthers and a pioneer Spec2 to power the bass. It's a very nice way to go. The 3 amps run via a minidsp.

Edited by Upfront, 09 June 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Paul Spencer]

Given that this is a custom speaker project, you need a custom crossover. There is no way around it! The task is more challenging passive, but you still need a competent design with active as well. Either way you need to measure it. With a passive, you need software optimisation. With active it's beneficial but not essential. So the two paths that make sense are:

1. Passive with a custom design - if you don't want to learn how to do it, then you need to get someone to do it who is working with measurements of your horns complete minus the crossover.

2. Active with a custom design optimised with measurements.

3. Hybrid - passive two way for the upper two horns so that you can run your Weston amp on those, then active for the midbass horns and subs below. Still need a custom design here!

I don't get the feeling you really want the learning curve of passive crossover design, so I'd suggest you think about either getting some work done, or go for the smaller learning curve of measuring your speakers and designing active crossovers for them. Or a mix of the two.

Just stay out of "no mans land." This is where you:

1. Use an off the shelf crossover that may or may not have adjustment, blindly guessing at crossover points.
2. Try to use any kind of stock crossover.
3. Try to use a passive crossover designed for another speaker you might think is "close enough."

It's like the sensei says on Karate kid ... "learn karate, safe. Not learn karate, safe. Half way in the middle .... vely dangerous daniel son!"

[atilsley]

Thanks Paul...well said.

I don't want passive, and I've got over the 'hurdle of replacing the 2a3.

Minidsp and 6 channel SET is looking good.

Would you opt for crown amp for the midbass....then use decware SET 4 channel for the top horns...?

Edited by atilsley, 10 June 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[atilsley]

Just started a discussion with earle for one stereo amp in push pull for the bass, then two separate stereo SET amps for the four horn channels. Mmmmmm.

Now...where does mini dsp fit in....after source (DAC)....?

[Upfront]

Nice! Minidsp sits between preamp and power amp

[3G_]

petty sure a 2x8 minidsp has all the preamp requirements needed.
I am going source>2x8dsp>alephjamps>4way horns

[atilsley]

petty sure a 2x8 minidsp has all the preamp requirements needed.
I am going source>2x8dsp>alephjamps>4way horns

Are you happy with the dsps?

Today, I tidied up edges....built baffles in glued up 25 nn ply...added rounded Tassie Oak edges....filled inside.....getting there.

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[atilsley]

Baffles done...rounded inside edge....

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•  horn 15.JPG   85.91K   13 downloads

[Upfront]

petty sure a 2x8 minidsp has all the preamp requirements needed.
I am going source>2x8dsp>alephjamps>4way horns

Hmm! Didn't realise that. Looks like I need to visit the site again.
Horns are looking good mate! Keep it up.

[Shao]

Hi Andrew,

This is Shao, I promise to givensome feedback for your Corncsala after I received them one week ago. I would like to say they are the best speakers I have been used and heard, In a word-stunning! So enjoy!

I tested them with Classic and Jazz. The sound is very much in detalis and balanced. The high frequency is vey smooth and crispy,especially when it plays violins, sounds like silk..the vocal is so real and sweet&accurate in mid range, the Bass is very tight and rich when it plays Double Bass and cello. It brings me into the music without trying to tell the sound itself.

My room is not big (3650mmX4100mm), so I spent some time to find the best positions set up for these two big guys. As I want to find the best sound stage especially for symphony. I put the speakers almost 100mm away from the back wall and turn the speakers around 30 degree to make the horns directly face my listening positon. So it looks like equilateral triangle between the two speakers and my listening position, which reduce the reflection of the room. So I hear the direct sound from the speakers well.

I am using Leben cx300 tube amp with 14w per channel,it control the speakers responce well. The sound is very balanced, rich and
amazing.

I am thinking to make a live record with using Sony PCM-D50 liner recorder( it could record track with 96 HZ and 24bit) and send to you later on although I am not so sure how good the recording reflects the reality.

Again, I am so happy with your project and enjoyable!

Shao

[atilsley]

Thanks shao

That's very kind if you to make those remarks.

Even though I only had the cornscallas for just under one year, I certainly enjoyed them.

Kind regards

[atilsley]

Selenium mid drivers arrived yesterday...wow...never seen anything like it.

Check the size.

Also, the B&C drivers arrived.....again, for a 12-inch driver, so heavy and so well made. Fantastic.

Crites 3-way cross overs also arrived.

Just waiting on the Stereolabs horns...and to fit the mid bass horns into some nice outer cabinets.

So, we're getting there.

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•  B&C driver.JPG   113.91K   30 downloads
•  B&C drivers on horns.JPG   124.16K   27 downloads

[atilsley]

Now running the horns in....playing straight without cross overs.....sounds great. John Inlow suggests one week needed for run in.

Tweeters landed today. Theyre the size of a standard unit net alone a tweeter.

[atilsley]

Back chambers built.

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[atilsley]

Have had horns running for a few days...getting better and better. Lovely listening to bass attack notes.

Back chamber has angled baffles to avoid standing waves...plus some minor dampening.

See pic of three-way horn layout drawn roughly to scale.

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[Upfront]

Starting to look the goods mate!

[Paul Spencer]

Good to see it taking shape. What is the volume in your sealed rear chamber?

[Arg]

Hi Andrew,

reading the thread I see a few options evolving and sort of lost track. So, what is the latest incarnation of this project? What drivers, what horns, what layout? It's a cool project, congratulations on doing it.

Arg

[atilsley]

Paul, rear chamber is 24,600 cm 3

Arg. Still working on final config.

Drivers all bought....as outlined.

Trailing midbass horns lying on side.

[atilsley]

Because of room size problem (WAF!), I need to rethink the mid bass horns.

Two options.

1. Lie units on side facing either in or out. See pic of crude mock up of what I mean. Interestingly, the imaging of this config was very good indeed. I'll build up the middle angled baffles today to test more properly.

2. Have units firing downwards. For this, I would raise them off the floor by 50cm, and build two angled 'walls' for the bottom sides...plus a 45 degree angled baffle for the rear (against the wall side).

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•  horn on sides.JPG   114.36K   14 downloads