9 replies to this topic

[andreasmaaan]

Recently did some tweaking of my digital front end and thought the results might be of interest to some.

I've been running a PC-based system, still on Windows XP with Winamp as my main player (a convenience/ease of use/compatibility thing). The operating system has been optimised for audio, although not as aggressively as it could be. The hardware is basically a mid-level intel based desktop PC that i put together in 2010, the only upgrades being a big, quiet power supply and an M-Audio Delta 2496 soundcard.

Previously, I was running a Blue Jeans RCA SPDIF cable from the output on the Delta 2496 into an Audio GD Ref 7.1. The amp is a Bel Canto Evo 4 (bridged) and the speakers are Revel Ultima Studio. Volume is controlled with software. I thought this system sounded impressive in most ways, particularly in terms of detail retrieval, dynamics and imaging, but in the last year I've become aware of what I think is an overly analytic quality, especially with poor recordings, which I've been desperately trying to get rid of.

Previous improvements included RCA interconnet upgrades, repositioning the speakers in the room, throwing a cloth over the TV screen, and optimising the operating system. The biggest improvements came with repositioning the speakers (bass much better) and optimising the operating system (sound more coherent).

Lately I've been listening to a variety of my favourites including Bill Evans, Stan Getz, Ainslie Wills, Fleetwood Mac, Curtis Mayfield, Radiohead, Giorgios Sfyridis, Gang Gang Dance, James Blake, Kate Bush, Leonard Cohen, Phillip Glass, Ryuchi Sakamoto, Trentemoller and Pantha Du Prince.

Last fortnight, a John Kenny Hiface Mk3 arrived. I hooked it up using a generic USB cable from PC to Hiface, and the Blue Jeans cable (with an BNC-RCA adapter) from Hiface to DAC. Initially, it sounded pretty awful - harsh in the high end, thin and strange in the upper-bass and lower-midrange. and even more analytic than the Delta 2496. Switching the USB cable for a different generic one resulted in a significant improvement, reducing the harshness and restoring most of the upper bass. Replacing the USB cable with an adapter improved things more.

I then ordered a Black Cat Silverstar 75 and hooked it up from the BNC output of the Hiface to the BNC input on the DAC. A smoother and bigger (although not unnaturally so) sound. But not a massive difference from the Blue Jeans cable.

However, by the this point I felt that the Hiface sounded different, but not better, than the Delta. To me, the Hiface sounded more detailed and the Delta more musical.

Next, I got out my laptop, which is an Asus Core i7 based thing running Windows 7 (also optimised to some extent for audio). I plugged the Hiface into the laptop with the better of the USB cables (the adapter I'd bought for the desktop was on the wrong angle) and played music through both Winamp and JPlay. (The Hiface was still connected to the DAC via the Silverstar).

Jplay was clearly better than Winamp - cleaner, smoother, more detailed. This was the best sound I'd had so far, but only slightly better than the desktop running Winamp + Hiface via USB adaptor and/or the desktop + Delta via blue jeans cable. And overall, I still enjoyed listening to the Delta more than anything else for it's more musical, more laid-back and more elastic qualities. I felt that maybe I'd shelled out a lot of money for a sound that was only different, not better, than what I'd had.

Finally, I went back to the desktop and this time ran the Delta to the DAC via the Silverstar cable (with the Black Cat RCA-BNC adapter on the Delta end). That was two nights ago. There was no comparison this time, this was by far better than all the other combinations. I did some back and forth switching between the various setups - still a clear winner. Above all, much smoother. And more scale, more dynamics, more detail, tonally more pure, and far less analytic. It feels to me like my system has gone from sounding impressive to sounding (I know I'm a tosser for using this adjective) beautiful. And musical. So, so happy.

Anyway, I thought I'd share all of this because (assuming my opinion means something and also assuming there's not something wrong with, for example, the USB ports on my desktop's and laptop's motherboards - definitely possible) it really goes against the conventional wisdom about PC based transports, i.e. that async is always best. It also says something quite impressive about the Delta 2496, which is a PCI soundcard that I think I bought for something like $100-$150 in the late 90's or early-2000's. And also of course that the Silverstar seems to be an excellent digital cable.

The next step will be to upgrade the desktop to Windows 7 or 8 and to install Jplay on it. For the moment I'm just listening to everything I've ever loved and trying to convince myself that it's worth actually leaving the house..

Hope this was of interest

Cheers,
Andreas

Edited by andreasmaaan, 06 May 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[datafone]

Very interesting post, Andreas.

Thanks

[Luc]

Yep interesting, especially the fact your running xp and an old soundcard, ancient actually considering the penchant most people have for upgrading their PC gear.

[jkeny]

Hi Andreas,
I only just came across this post. I din't know from our email conversation about 10 days ago that you weren't completely happy with the MK3.
Maybe I can help because what you describe is not the signature sound of the MK3?
First a question - Have you tried the Rf attenuators? How do they change the sound?

In order of importance:

Firstly, never, ever use software volume control - I suspect this is your biggest problem! Depending on how much attenuation you have to use, it will sound harsh & brittle as you describe. You are stripping off bits!!
Secondly, I would definitely move your OS to Win 7 (it would seem Win 8 is even better)
Thirdly, check if your laptop s grounded - you want it not to be grounded through you charger - if your laptop sounds better running off battery then your grounding is an issue

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks for following up on this John. Just to clarify, I am actually very happy with the Mk3, and I will be using it as a transport for my laptop, particularly next year when I'm living o/s and will need a portable transport.

When I last emailed you I hadn't yet introduced the new cable, and I think the old cable was the bottlrneck in the system. It was after experimenting with the Silverstar that some of the characteristics I've mentioned became more apparent (to my ears/tastes).

Since starting the thread I've gotten the correct adaptor to eliminate the USB cable from laptop to Mk3, which has definitely led to an improvement.

I do realise that the digital attemuation is a mortal sin, but I'm still working out which path to go down to eliminate it - preamp, high bitrate software control, new DAC, etc - which is why it remains for now.

Win 7 is what I'm running on the laptop, it's XP on the desktop. There's no audible difference when I plug/unplug the laptop so I don't think grounding's an issue.

I should stress that my thoughts apply to my ears hearing my system. I can't say that either the Mk3 or Delta's better, just that in my system the Delta's more to my taste. I should also say that I'll be continuing to fiddle with software and hardware and see what extra results it yields...

I was very enthusiastic in my initial post about the Delta, but a large part of that was my shock at how good such an old bit of grmear was capable of sounding once I'd cleared up the cable bottleneck.

Cheers,
Andreas

[andreasmaaan]

Thought I'd do a bit of an update if anyone's still listening...

After a few months of tweaking and fiddling, I've decided that the JK Hiface is my preferred transport, without doubt.

Changes in my system have included new interconnects and the addition of a power conditioner, as well as more care with the way my cables are laid out (none touching). I think essentially the difference comes down to the power conditioner.

What seemed like unpleasant/analytical extra detail from the JK Hiface now seems like better clarity and realism. I suppose the more relaxed character of the Delta was previously caressing out a bit of the hardness elsewhere in the chain. Really enjoying the music now.

So +1 for the Hiface from me

[emesbee]

Hi Andreas, your PC sounds like it might be a similar vintage to mine. I have what would now be considered an old PC running WIndows Xp, also with an M-Audio 2496 soundcard. My PC is not my main audio source, so I haven't gone to a lot of trouble to try and optimise its audio output. However, when I first got the PC it didn't have a soundcard, and when I connected the analog audio output from the motherboard to my amplifier, I couldn't believe how bad it sounded. Think of any kind of noise and distortion that you like, and I'd say it was probably there. In fact it was so bad, the noise itself was almost musical! So, a soundcard was an essential, hence the M-Audio 2496.

Initially I connected the analog output from the M-Audio into my amplifier, with quite good results, and lived with that for a while. Later on, I bought a CA DacMagic as an upgrade from my old CD player, so also tried connecting the DacMagic to the PC via USB. I think this sounds better than the analog output from the M-Audio, so am currently using this setup. I have briefly tried feeding the digital out from the M-Audio into the DacMagic. It sounds quite good, but so far I haven't done a proper comparison with the USB connection. I might take a closer look (listen) at this.

Edited by emesbee, 23 August 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[andreasmaaan]

Hi Andreas, your PC sounds like it might be a similar vintage to mine. I have what would now be considered an old PC running WIndows Xp, also with an M-Audio 2496 soundcard. My PC is not my main audio source, so I haven't gone to a lot of trouble to try and optimise its audio output. However, when I first got the PC it didn't have a soundcard, and when I connected the analog audio output from the motherboard to my amplifier, I couldn't believe how bad it sounded. Think of any kind of noise and distortion that you like, and I'd say it was probably there. In fact it was so bad, the noise itself was almost musical! So, a soundcard was an essential, hence the M-Audio 2496.

Initially I connected the analog output from the M-Audio into my amplifier, with quite good results, and lived with that for a while. Later on, I bought a CA DacMagic as an upgrade from my old CD player, so also tried connecting the DacMagic to the PC via USB. I think this sounds better than the analog output from the M-Audio, so am currently using this setup. I have briefly tried feeding the digital out from the M-Audio into the DacMagic. It sounds quite good, but so far I haven't done a proper comparison with the USB connection. I might take a closer look (listen) at this.

Interested to hear how they compare...

[jkeny]

Thought I'd do a bit of an update if anyone's still listening...

After a few months of tweaking and fiddling, I've decided that the JK Hiface is my preferred transport, without doubt.

Changes in my system have included new interconnects and the addition of a power conditioner, as well as more care with the way my cables are laid out (none touching). I think essentially the difference comes down to the power conditioner.

What seemed like unpleasant/analytical extra detail from the JK Hiface now seems like better clarity and realism. I suppose the more relaxed character of the Delta was previously caressing out a bit of the hardness elsewhere in the chain. Really enjoying the music now.

So +1 for the Hiface from me

Thanks for posting a follow up Andreas & good on you for sticking with it
With these improvements in your playback system you should now be able to easily tell the difference between Jplay on Windows 7 & Winamp on XP. Have you tried this again?

Edited by jkeny, 24 August 2012 - 06:46 AM.

[andreasmaaan]

Yes, jplay is the superior playback software of those I've tried. Atm I am primarily using jriver for its excellent interface (and passable SQ).

My sincere apologies for prematurely misjudging your device John :S

Cheers,
Andreas