191 replies to this topic

[mikey d]

A watershed day in Australian society. The most principled man in modern Australian politics resigned from the senate & as leader of the Greens.

I'm well pleased for Bob but saddened for our country.

Do you agree? I'm sure there will be some who don't. C'est la vie!

[Whatmore]

He's resigned again?

[proftournesol]

Thanks for the principled work Bob. He's resigned with style, he's gone out on top, not rejected by the electorate, not a dummy spit, not stabbed in the back party room by faceless men. Enjoy your retirement, I'm sure he'll be arrested on a forest demonstration in Tasmania by this time next week:)

[proftournesol]

Thanks for the principled work Bob. He's resigned with style, he's gone out on top, not rejected by the electorate, not a dummy spit, not stabbed in the back party room by faceless men. Enjoy your retirement, I'm sure he'll be arrested on a forest demonstration in Tasmania by this time next week:)

Whether you agree with his politics or not, he's a man of principle who is one of the few pollies who isn't for hire in back room deals

[Art Vandelay]

The timing is unusual but I wonder if the poor performance in QLD has precipitated this decision.
Love him or loath him I doubt there's been a more genuine and more committed individual in Australian Politics.

[mr-happy-pants]

Why is it the good men go & the liars & cheats stay?

Graham

[Catostylus]

Bob, I salute you.

[dialectically]

Ditto

[Luc]

Honest, principled, committed, a decent human being and it's a sad day for Australian politics.

I wish the scum that infests the Lib/Nats and Lab parties had members like him, we'd live in a better country.

Just watching Newman at COAG frothing at the mouth about poor bloody QLD missing out on Fed funds and taking a stick to everyone and everything is giving me A, a taste of how Abbott will behave and B, how clear the difference is between the Abbotts, the Newmans, the Abetz's, the Conroys, the Fergusons et al and the departing Greens leader.
I wish Christine Milne the best for the future and she's a dogged and honest politician who'll step into Browns shoes quite well going on past performance.

[Jake]

Bugger. We've just gone back 20 years.

[Art Vandelay]

I wish Christine Milne the best for the future and she's a dogged and honest politician who'll step into Browns shoes quite well going on past performance.

Yes, I also have the feeling that Christine will successfully lead the party into that great expanse she cares so much about.
The wilderness awaits them. .

[proftournesol]

Honest, principled, committed, a decent human being and it's a sad day for Australian politics.

I wish the scum that infests the Lib/Nats and Lab parties had members like him, we'd live in a better country.

Just watching Newman at COAG frothing at the mouth about poor bloody QLD missing out on Fed funds and taking a stick to everyone and everything is giving me A, a taste of how Abbott will behave and B, how clear the difference is between the Abbotts, the Newmans, the Abetz's, the Conroys, the Fergusons et al and the departing Greens leader.
I wish Christine Milne the best for the future and she's a dogged and honest politician who'll step into Browns shoes quite well going on past performance.

It's refreshing to see a politician who isn't an 'angry man'.

[wolster]

Agreed. A man of principal.
I wish him well for the future and the opposite for his party.

[proftournesol]

He's resigned again?

Well the last time was when he resigned from the Tasmanian Parliament, the time before was when he resigned from general practice. A serial resigner then I guess:)

[MC240]

Time to stop mucking around on the forum Prof and ZB get in there and have a go.
Even though I've never voted green I was always glad to see Bob returned year after year.A man of principle stepping aside leaving plenty time for his replacement and they party to be on solid ground before the next election. The Liberals and Labor should take note.

[Catherine Barkley]

Angry Anderson will be stoked.

[mikey d]

Unfortunately, Angry always was a meathead although I figure he will be stoked. One less articulate & intelligent pollie out of public life.

[DRC]

The timing is unusual but I wonder if the poor performance in QLD has precipitated this decision.
Love him or loath him I doubt there's been a more genuine and more committed individual in Australian Politics.

Agreed, I can't say I agree with all the of the Green spectrum of politics. However, if we had members of both houses of parliament, of whatever political persuasion, with the commitment, honesty and ethics of Bob Brown we would live in a changed country.

[THOMO]

Yes a man with great integrity.Well done.
I did not often agree with his politics but I still respect him.
Australia is a better place because of him.

[Luc]

It's funny you know, lots of people will drag out platitudes when acknowledging people like Bob Brown and his departure from the public stage and how a man of integrity and principles( that he believed in and never left or deviated from) has gone and we're the poorer for that departure blah, blah, blah. But then in the same sentence will utter things like:
"I don't/ have never really agreed with him or his politics" , "Don't actually have anything good to say about his branch of political leaning/ethics but the place will be worse off for him not being there." ...and similar sentiment.

I find that somewhat at odds with the sentiment expressed as more often than not people will go on to say I've never voted for them or him ect but they'll quite happily vote for the Coalition or Labor each election and vote in the lickspittles and spivs that absolutely infest the Parliament in Canberra.

Talk about a union dominated party peopled by men and woman who have never really had a job that you and perhaps I have had and have and also you then have a party of privilege and a party that sits firmly in the pocket billiard trousers of the big end of town with a 'Rump' of somewhat looney country members like Barnaby Joyce, Duncan Gray etc mixed in with the looney far right religious nutters occupying various seats in the Federal and State Upper Houses...

...and you all keep voting them in, year in, year out, no(real) questions asked.

Australia actually still rides on the sheep's back it's just that the sheep have names like Rhonda and Simon and Ian and Helen and Kylie and Taylor and Alex and[insert your name] and they live in the suburbs of Syd/Melb/Bris/Perth (I actually think the saving grace in Australian voting is South Oz...they actually think down there before they put pen to ballot paper and of course Canberra too but it doesn't count does it) and the same two party's get voted in an out and nothing really changes.

C'est la vie

[DRC]

Luc, are you suggesting we free thinking South Australians deserve a pat on the back for elevating Christopher Pyne to a position in national politics?

[Luc]

Luc, are you suggesting we free thinking South Australians deserve a pat on the back for elevating Christopher Pyne to a position in national politics?

Damn, I forgot about thy mincing poodle and Downer. dont ever let the facts interupt a good story though !

[mikey d]

When I first became aware of Bob Brown, it was during the Save The Franklin campaign. Brown carried that campaign on his own back & I was truly concerned that he would be murdered by the rednecks down there. He was also in the situation where he could have been gaoled for be a homosexual (sodomy was still a criminal offence there). He saved the Franklin from damming & also changed the national politic by enabling Hawke to oust Frazer. Since entering national politics, he has brought the agenda of conservation & compassionate humanity to all of the mainland. One of the highlights of my visit to Tassie was a visit to the Bob Brown museum in Stahan. I was choked with pride of a living national treasure. Enjoy your bushwalking Bob.

[adrocks]

Luc

Thats a very cynical outlook but you could be right. Thank God I'm a South Australian. Oh ****, I just moved to Perth.


cheers
adrocks

[holdencaulfield2007]

Yes Bob Brown is a big loss to the Senate and the people of Australia but I have no doubt he will keep up the good fight . He has been a hero of mine for the best part of 30 years. I had the privilege of meeting him several times during the "Save the Franklin " era. A wonderful orator and a truly compassionate human being.

[stefan534]

I"ve often stopped what I was doing upon hearing him on the radio and tuned in for a moment - his sincerity, etc. In contrast, most other pollies talk gives me physical pain (in the ears mostly) I"ll miss that, if naievely optimistic, if at times more principled than practical, voice of reason that speaks a certain truth not quite of the concrete world (of concrete), but moreso of the hills and dales that encroach upon it.

Edited by stefan534, 13 April 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[rehabitat]

Good post there Luc. Ime the least one can do is lodge a protest vote (reps) for any minor party and still know that your preference can be directed to your major party of choice(lesser of two evils). Without using such simple tactics a vote is effectively useless.

I've always voted indy or green first and directed my preference regardless of the "how to vote" forms. What a waste of paper! What an insult to intelligence!

I don't like all of the naive and extremest policies of the greens, but faced with the more dismal alternatives, so whattya do? It looks like we're in for more "interesting times", now that Bob is gone.

[wolster]

Luc, I agree with much of what you say and if the Greens had any shadow of a sensible economic policy I would join them.
The sad fact is, however, that they are so focused on the environment that they do not have a clue when it comes to reasonable policy on personal and company taxation and general fiscal management.

Bob Brown should and will be remembered for his great work in environmental issues and I suspect he will be happy to be remembered in such a light.

[davidsss]

Very sad to see him go. A politician in another league from the nitwits in the major parties. A politician who plainly told us what he thought and acted on his beliefs.

This will be very interesting for The Greens. They need to face this situation though. Having such a good first leader was always going to be problematic but his resignation was inevitable at some stage. I think the Greens should be able to regroup and continue to gain support but it will be very challenging without Bob Brown.

Wolster, I'll ignore your ill informed statement about Greens economic policies. I don't think this is the place for them, nor do I think their economic policies are anything but sensible.

DS

[wolster]

Wolster, I'll ignore your ill informed statement about Greens economic policies. I don't think this is the place for them, nor do I think their economic policies are anything but sensible.

DS

Fair go, David. He hasn't died, just retired.
As far as your views on the Greens economic polices is concerned, I am far from surprised and agree to disagree. :-)

[davidsss]

I suppose you wouldn't like this guy either: http://www.nytimes.c..._r=2&ref=europe

DS

Edited by davidsss, 14 April 2012 - 01:01 AM.

[hedalfa]

A watershed day in Australian society. The most principled man in modern Australian politics resigned from the senate & as leader of the Greens.

I'm well pleased for Bob but saddened for our country.

Do you agree? I'm sure there will be some who don't. C'est la vie!

I agree a fair dinkum guy whiich is most refreshing. Even those who dont agree with him would have to note his sincerity. There was short mention about him on the radio about a chap that had stayed at his house, He has a sign trespassers welcome, and there was a guy that sounded like he was down on his luck staying in one of the other buildings. Bob reminds us that its still possible to be principled, not cop out.

Edited by hedalfa, 14 April 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Aslan]

Whilst I have always admired the man personally for his honesty, integrity and past achievements, I shudder at the thought of a more powerful 'Greens' should that ever come to pass.

We have a similar Greens/Labour Coalition in Tassie Politics as we do Federally, and the State is going backwards at a rate of knots..................over 3000 jobs lost in the last 6 months (out of a workforce of 250,000).
The Greens stated aims here are to close the Timber, Mining and Fishing Industries, INCLUDING sustainable fish farming and renewable forestry.
My little piece of paradise is fast becoming a third world economy, and if the letters to the Editors and public outcry down here are anything to go by, the larger proportion of the voting public think they have gone way too far already.

If the Greens can somehow balance their objectives with some objectivity regarding a logical transition to a sustainable economy, there is hope...................but I suspect I am hoping for too much.

[holdencaulfield2007]

Whilst I have always admired the man personally for his honesty, integrity and past achievements, I shudder at the thought of a more powerful 'Greens' should that ever come to pass.

We have a similar Greens/Labour Coalition in Tassie Politics as we do Federally, and the State is going backwards at a rate of knots..................over 3000 jobs lost in the last 6 months (out of a workforce of 250,000).
The Greens stated aims here are to close the Timber, Mining and Fishing Industries, INCLUDING sustainable fish farming and renewable forestry.
My little piece of paradise is fast becoming a third world economy, and if the letters to the Editors and public outcry down here are anything to go by, the larger proportion of the voting public think they have gone way too far already.

If the Greens can somehow balance their objectives with some objectivity regarding a logical transition to a sustainable economy, there is hope...................but I suspect I am hoping for too much.

Tasmania used to be run by the H.E.C. They were an unelected all powerful organisation.They had the power to get rid of elected governments and often did. Bob Brown and the Green movement were the first people that stood up to the bully boy HEC tactics. If they had not there would be very little left of your "little piece of paradise" Lake Pedder was a world renowned "piece of paradise" and the HEC drowned it. They just thumbed their noses at the international outrage . They finally get their bums kicked over the Franklin River and that was down to Bob Brown and like minded people. Long after all the political party hacks and the HEC flunkys are forgotten, Bob Brown will be revered and remembered. All Australians and especially Tasmanians owe him a debt of gratitude IMO.

[Aslan]

Agreed HC....read my first paragraph!

But are the Greens becoming the new H.E.C...............wielding far more power than the proletariat gave them?

Lets look at the H.E.C legacy in any event.............Tasmania has the cleanest, greenest electricity supply in the world.....................surely a GOOD thing for the environment.

EDIT: Hydro TAS is owned by the State Government, exports clean power to the mainland and employs 800 people. It made $332 Million profit before tax last year, a vast chunk of which went into State Revenue.

Edited by Aslan, 14 April 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[wolster]

As I have posted before, you only have to look at the Green's website to despair at their cobbled-together economic policy.
Bob and the Greens have done good work in protecting the environment. That is where their contribution stops.

Andrew, do they explain why they want to get rid of sustainable fish farms? I enjoy my Tassie salmon.

[LogicprObe]

Bob may have meant well but it stinks that he won't even be in Parliament when his useless Carbon Tax is implemented.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Bob may have meant well but it stinks that he won't even be in Parliament when his useless Carbon Tax is implemented.

"Useless"? In what sense?

The carbon tax has already been well recieved by all the economists, which is a complete contrast to Abbott's silly scheme. None of the independent economists that have examined the Abbott scheme feel it will do anything worthwhile and will require thousands more public servants to be employed.

[Luc]

As I have posted before, you only have to look at the Green's website to despair at their cobbled-together economic policy.
Bob and the Greens have done good work in protecting the environment. That is where their contribution stops.

Andrew, do they explain why they want to get rid of sustainable fish farms? I enjoy my Tassie salmon.

I enjoy my Tassie salmon too( although I think the Danish stuff is superior and the Scottish stuff is to die for) but I haven't been able to find an utterance by any Green party member or on their policy website where they state that "they want to get rid of sustainable fish farms" (to quote you Wolster).

I found this article in The Australian http://www.theaustra...6-1226221288777 and I found this on their website http://greens.org.au...ood-sign-future and you may like to see footage here http://www.abc.net.a...worries/3840244.

There is a lot of information and a lot of debate about fish farming and as a recreational fisherman who fishes at least twice a week (and have been doing for forty years), I know my fish and I know how much commercial fishing harms wild fish stocks and the environment as a whole unless tightly regulated. My problem with fish farming is the cost in feed and what they feed them. Have a quick squiz at this, which is a small bit of a much larger article:-

Farming fish has been practiced for thousands of years, but not in the manner now underway on many temperate coasts worldwide today. Traditionally, fish that eat vegetable matter were used, such as carp or tilapia. For thousands of years Chinese fish farms have cycled waste from vegetable crops through their fish and then used the waste from the fish to fertilize the next vegetable crop. This sustainable, closed loop system created protein. In the late 1970's however, a Norwegain hydro company, Norsk Hydro initiated the first corporate effort to farm salmon.
Salmon are carnivores. No one has successfully farmed a carnivore. A terrestrial equivalent would feed chickens to dogs and eat the dog. The underlying equation in farming carnivores is a net loss in protein, and would not be profitable if full price is paid for the feed. Salmon farming takes two - five pounds of wild fish to produce one pound of farm salmon. This represents a net global protein loss as most of the fish used to make pellets are high quality food fit for human consumption. In 1999, 189,000 tons of Chilean whiting was sold to the make fish farm pellets for $12.9 million, when it could have produced $102.9 million if sold for human consumption.
Salmon farming is not sustainable. It starves one ocean of fish, and pollutes another with the same fish. Its profit margin is so slight it can not afford to deal with its own waste. Its product is of questionable food quality being high in PCBs, low in omega oils and dyed pink. It is favoured politically because it produces salmon without a river, leaving the resource rich watersheds of British Columbia open for exploitation. It is a classic example of destruction of the commons to promote the privately owned.

Now this is the nub of the problem; what they are fed with and their waste. It's a problem that is confronting the South Oz Tuna farm industry and the resulting decimation of the WA pilchard industry by the relentless need for more pilchards to feed these Tuna(I think that they are no longer fed these commercially prized fish). They're now fed protein pellets and it's these pellets that are causing a stir world wide because of what goes into them.

[LogicprObe]

"Useless"? In what sense?

The carbon tax has already been well recieved by all the economists, which is a complete contrast to Abbott's silly scheme. None of the independent economists that have examined the Abbott scheme feel it will do anything worthwhile and will require thousands more public servants to be employed.

I didn't say Abbott's was any good..................but anything that makes bankers rich at the expense of the plebs stinks.
Besides that, there will be no impact on worldwide C02 levels, so therefore it is useless.

[rehabitat]

Besides that, there will be no impact on worldwide C02 levels, so therefore it is useless.

Not as useless as one-eyed arguments like this.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I didn't say Abbott's was any good..................but anything that makes bankers rich at the expense of the plebs stinks.

A carbon tax will not make banker rich. The money flows from large polluters into government coffers and thence to taxpayers and to consolidated revenue. Completely and neatly bypassing the bankers.

Besides that, there will be no impact on worldwide C02 levels, so therefore it is useless.

GERMANY'S carbon tax is designed to address GERMANY'S CO2 emissions. China's carbon tax is designed to address CHINA'S CO2 emissions. AUSTRALIA'S carbon tax is designed to address AUSTRALIA'S CO2 emissions.other 30 nations that have a carbon tax. We are going to be doing our bit to reduce CO2 emissions, just as every other nation will have to do. Playing silly games like claiming our carbon tax will be useless is just that: A silly game. Australia is ahead of more than 160 other nations WRT CO2 emissions. We must do our part. The alternative to the government's carbon tax, is Abbott's silly, expensive and useless scheme.

[proftournesol]

Agreed HC....read my first paragraph!

But are the Greens becoming the new H.E.C...............wielding far more power than the proletariat gave them?

Lets look at the H.E.C legacy in any event.............Tasmania has the cleanest, greenest electricity supply in the world.....................surely a GOOD thing for the environment.

EDIT: Hydro TAS is owned by the State Government, exports clean power to the mainland and employs 800 people. It made $332 Million profit before tax last year, a vast chunk of which went into State Revenue.

The difference of course being that the Greens like all pollies are elected and can be unelected by the people unlike business interests like Gunns or the HEC. If Tasmanians don't like what the Greens are doing they won't vote for them. A very far-sighted part of the Greens platform is to reject money from the corporate world, if only all parties did that we'd be closer to a true democracy.

[proftournesol]

I didn't say Abbott's was any good..................but anything that makes bankers rich at the expense of the plebs stinks.
Besides that, there will be no impact on worldwide C02 levels, so therefore it is useless.

Lp the most potent impact of any emissions tax is to price coal generated power in a way that helps Australia's economy shift to a sustainable 21st century model at the front of the change, not years after everyone else when the cost will be much higher. Unlike countries like Germany Japan or Spain we are cursed with abundant supplies of coal and the best democracy that money can buy. Business as usual is doing all it can to delay this transition. The Greens are the only political voice for individuals and businesses (and there are plenty of them) who see the need for that change, because they are the only political voice that hasn't been bought.

[LogicprObe]

A carbon tax will not make banker rich. The money flows from large polluters into government coffers and thence to taxpayers and to consolidated revenue. Completely and neatly bypassing the bankers.



GERMANY'S carbon tax is designed to address GERMANY'S CO2 emissions. China's carbon tax is designed to address CHINA'S CO2 emissions. AUSTRALIA'S carbon tax is designed to address AUSTRALIA'S CO2 emissions.other 30 nations that have a carbon tax. We are going to be doing our bit to reduce CO2 emissions, just as every other nation will have to do. Playing silly games like claiming our carbon tax will be useless is just that: A silly game. Australia is ahead of more than 160 other nations WRT CO2 emissions. We must do our part. The alternative to the government's carbon tax, is Abbott's silly, expensive and useless scheme.

So............it's going to stay a tax and not become a trading scheme then?

Also, you fail to say how much the tax is in all these other countries.
Is ours the same as Germany's or China's?