1396 replies to this topic

[bzr]

...and what do you drive ?

[Lil Caesar]

Hehehe. Point taken

Btw I don't drive.

[bzr]

I really hope this dac is the start of a great trend, time will tell. I wasn't trying to be dismissive, just haven't got 6-12 mths to find out if it will tick all the boxes like the MSB, that & I'm so excited I just had to tell someone.

[wolster]

Congrats on the purchase. bzr. We expect your impressions in the product review section with lots of pics.

[pchan]

....and what does the MSB cost ?

My humble little income limits me considering MSB, I'll have to sell the house and send the better 1/2 to sell her hot bod to even consider it!!!

[pchan]

Congrats on the purchase. bzr. We expect your impressions in the product review section with lots of pics.

+1

Don't forget to tell us about it when ya get it !!!

[Drizt]

I really hope this dac is the start of a great trend, time will tell. I wasn't trying to be dismissive, just haven't got 6-12 mths to find out if it will tick all the boxes like the MSB, that & I'm so excited I just had to tell someone.

Very impressive DAC that is for sure. I look forward to your write up. What else do you have in your system ?

[bhobba]

Congrats on the purchase. bzr. We expect your impressions in the product review section with lots of pics.

+2

Thanks
Bill

Edited by bhobba, 10 April 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[braj]

Does anyone know of a Sydney store that sells the M51 and if they are due to receive stock in May?

I've emailed the distributor but have not heard back yet...

[dyl1dyl]

Hey guys, anyone mind posting some impressions on the build quality/enclosure of the M51? I would really like to know if it has a nice thick metal enclosure like the Esoteric, Burson, etc stuff as I just personally love the look/feeling of a thick enclosure. Thanks

[Lil Caesar]

...build is good but not the bespoke battle tank finish of esoteric gear. Only the faceplate is brushed aluminium. The chassis appears to be thick rolled steel with a Matt black coat of paint. It's well put together but not in the league of the really high end stuff.

Edited by Lil Caesar, 12 April 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[pchan]

Hey guys, anyone mind posting some impressions on the build quality/enclosure of the M51? I would really like to know if it has a nice thick metal enclosure like the Esoteric, Burson, etc stuff as I just personally love the look/feeling of a thick enclosure. Thanks

Are you taking it to the Battlefield in Afganistan!!!!

Edited by pchan, 12 April 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[pchan]

G'day people at SNA,

I had the pleasure of inviting myself and basically wanting to meet the legenary Lil Caesar who was kind enough to let me do a A/B comparison between the EE minmax plus dac and the NAD M51 last night. The reason was to get a real and far A/B between the EE mini max plus dac and the Nad M51
.
We did the comparison via USB with predicted results.

Unlike Lil Caesar I haven't heard the Bifrost, NOS dacs Belcanto or Lamp L4 etc but what I do have is a Gigawork Dac $69US.


I have always complained about the SQ of the EE mini max plus dac but I was surprised just how well it stood up to the NAD M51. The EE was skeletal and very focus on reproducing vocals. It had a wider soundstage and is easy to listen too.

The NAD M51 produced a more forward and gruntier SQ and didn't have the widening effect as the EE. But the M51 was more accurate but less focus on vocals so Bhobba you wont get the sibilance you have been complaining about on the WFS2! The NAD in my opinion produced better sound signitures of instruments and the micro detail exceeds what the EE mini max plus was capable. This is where the M51 excels and is a very capable beast!

I can live with both dacs but as we know the M51 has all the bells and whistles and I think it is excellent at the price point and understand why Lil Caesar has chosen it!!!

Again

I like to thank Lil Caesar for his time, hospitality and generosity, it was an absolute pleasure to meet the man himself who has done the homework and keep us in informed on his progress every step of the way!

Regards

pchan

[dalamii]

Chord will beat all on quality build =)

[dyl1dyl]

Are you taking it to the Battlefield in Afganistan!!!!

Haha, of course

G'day people at SNA,

I had the pleasure of inviting myself and basically wanting to meet the legenary Lil Caesar who was kind enough to let me do a A/B comparison between the EE minmax plus dac and the NAD M51 last night. The reason was to get a real and far A/B between the EE mini max plus dac and the Nad M51
.
We did the comparison via USB with predicted results.

Unlike Lil Caesar I haven't heard the Bifrost, NOS dacs Belcanto or Lamp L4 etc but what I do have is a Gigawork Dac $69US.


I have always complained about the SQ of the EE mini max plus dac but I was surprised just how well it stood up to the NAD M51. The EE was skeletal and very focus on reproducing vocals. It had a wider soundstage and is easy to listen too.

The NAD M51 produced a more forward and gruntier SQ and didn't have the widening effect as the EE. But the M51 was more accurate but less focus on vocals so Bhobba you wont get the sibilance you have been complaining about on the WFS2! The NAD in my opinion produced better sound signitures of instruments and the micro detail exceeds what the EE mini max plus was capable. This is where the M51 excels and is a very capable beast!

I can live with both dacs but as we know the M51 has all the bells and whistles and I think it is excellent at the price point and understand why Lil Caesar has chosen it!!!

Again

I like to thank Lil Caesar for his time, hospitality and generosity, it was an absolute pleasure to meet the man himself who has done the homework and keep us in informed on his progress every step of the way!

Regards

pchan

So, I take it that on the whole, you found the M51 better than the Minimax?

[John H. Darko]

G'day people at SNA,

I had the pleasure of inviting myself and basically wanting to meet the legenary Lil Caesar who was kind enough to let me do a A/B comparison between the EE minmax plus dac and the NAD M51 last night. The reason was to get a real and far A/B between the EE mini max plus dac and the Nad M51
.



I have always complained about the SQ of the EE mini max plus dac but I was surprised just how well it stood up to the NAD M51. The EE was skeletal and very focus on reproducing vocals. It had a wider soundstage and is easy to listen too.

The NAD M51 produced a more forward and gruntier SQ and didn't have the widening effect as the EE. But the M51 was more accurate but less focus on vocals so Bhobba you wont get the sibilance you have been complaining about on the WFS2! The NAD in my opinion produced better sound signitures of instruments and the micro detail exceeds what the EE mini max plus was capable. This is where the M51 excels and is a very capable beast!

I can live with both dacs but as we know the M51 has all the bells and whistles and I think it is excellent at the price point and understand why Lil Caesar has chosen it!!!

Again

I like to thank Lil Caesar for his time, hospitality and generosity, it was an absolute pleasure to meet the man himself who has done the homework and keep us in informed on his progress every step of the way!

Regards

pchan

Hey pchan. Forgive me for asking but in another thread you said this about the NAD vs EE:

"I heard the M51 yesterday and compared it to the EE min max dac under unfavourable condition to the EE mini max plus with a time limit of under 15min. It has been a while for me to step in a dealer showroom to test equipment out and I was a bit rusty. The system that was playing was well over $15kAUS. The speakers that was used was $6kAUS and did not suite the room or the environment it was in so it didn't do the entire rig justice. 2nd the guy kept cranking up the volume on the preamp when the M51 was in place. But initial impressions are promising, IMO the EE mini max plus was easier to listen to and more liquid than the M51. The M51 did display its superiority in detail retreval and fowardness, the other advantage of the M51 is the digital volume control and the ability for HDMI and balanced! I am at the process of asking another SNAer that has a M51 to be kind enough to let me do a better comparison".

Are you saying the listening conditions compromised your conclusions?

I'm confused.

[pchan]

Hey pchan. Forgive me for asking but in another thread you said this about the NAD vs EE:

"I heard the M51 yesterday and compared it to the EE min max dac under unfavourable condition to the EE mini max plus with a time limit of under 15min. It has been a while for me to step in a dealer showroom to test equipment out and I was a bit rusty. The system that was playing was well over $15kAUS. The speakers that was used was $6kAUS and did not suite the room or the environment it was in so it didn't do the entire rig justice. 2nd the guy kept cranking up the volume on the preamp when the M51 was in place. But initial impressions are promising, IMO the EE mini max plus was easier to listen to and more liquid than the M51. The M51 did display its superiority in detail retreval and fowardness, the other advantage of the M51 is the digital volume control and the ability for HDMI and balanced! I am at the process of asking another SNAer that has a M51 to be kind enough to let me do a better comparison".

Are you saying the listening conditions compromised your conclusions?

I'm confused.

Apologies for the confusion JD, PM sent...

Edited by pchan, 13 April 2012 - 07:05 AM.

[John H. Darko]

Thanks. Just to clarify for other readers: pchan is talking about two separate auditions that he undertook to compare his EE with the NAD.

[pchan]

Haha, of course



So, I take it that on the whole, you found the M51 better than the Minimax?

Absolutely, I am disappointed I havent been able to listen to it in my rig! After being at Caesar's pad I am sure my rig will benefit from the M51!

Is your rig set up in a battletank???

[dyl1dyl]

Is your rig set up in a battletank???

Haha, nah. Just like nice finished/built products as evidenced from my main system which consists of a pair of B and W 802Ds from a Moon 700i integrated and 750D as source. Anyway, will be picking up a NAD M51 imminently. My local distributor just told me that it might take up till end May to get stock as NAD is having problems coping with the worldwide demand. Oh well, patience is a virtue...

[pchan]

Cant wait for mine to arrives in my rig!

@dyl1dyl,

hopefully you will let us know what you think! Dont know what it cost in Singapore, I am sure it is great value compared to other products there. FWIW its the first with HDMI and ticks most boxes including a digital volume control: zero wear and tear for the rest of its life. If I find that the o/put is not enough to drive my DIY amp I going to build a buffer for it. BTW my entire rig is DIY including the 6ft ribbons, the only tthing that isnt DIY is the TT bluray player and the EE min max plus dac. Cant diy those front end components due to the size components and LSI, too hard to solder with normal hand held tools!

[dyl1dyl]

Cant wait for mine to arrives in my rig!

@dyl1dyl,

hopefully you will let us know what you think! Dont know what it cost in Singapore, I am sure it is great value compared to other products there. FWIW its the first with HDMI and ticks most boxes including a digital volume control: zero wear and tear for the rest of its life. If I find that the o/put is not enough to drive my DIY amp I going to build a buffer for it. BTW my entire rig is DIY including the 6ft ribbons, the only tthing that isnt DIY is the TT bluray player and the EE min max plus dac. Cant diy those front end components due to the size components and LSI, too hard to solder with normal hand held tools!

Yup, will post impressions. It's probably gonna be used mainly with my headphone rig and direct to Emotiva Airmotiv 6 studio monitors. Pricing in Singapore is very nice, almost half the British price!

Edited by dyl1dyl, 15 April 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Zappaman]

Back on topic! The NAD M51 arrived this arvo.

I really wanted to connect the M51into the Mac Mini using my Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable but the MM has been more than a bit temperamental with hanging on DAC USB drivers!! It would play (briefly and impressively) for short periods before the 'Unlock' message would come up on the M51 display, signifying the Mac USB 2.0 driver had dropped out. I have had some issues with the Hiface and Young USB drivers dropping out on the JKDAC32 too.

Several USB cables later, and trialling the other USB ports on the back of the MM, I tried the Optical option. The only mini-optical cable I have is the one that came with my Panasonic plasma TV. It's a normal Toslink cable with an add on mini adaptor. After playing with the OS X (Lion) Audio Midi settings, I found the 32bit Floating option gave the best audio output - less harsh/bright sound. However, I seem to be able to only get up to 24/96. I tried some of my 24/192 tracks and they sounded VERY weird!! Quickly aborted them. I thought the M51 played up to 24/192 with all inputs? I'll have to have a look at the MM optical port specs too. Any ideas anyone?

I'm listening to Jennifer Warnes (or as Hugh Dean calls her 'Genital Warts'!) 'The Hunter'. Allowing for a really basic optical mini adaptor connection, and that the M51 is straight out of the box, I AM impressed with how it matches the SQ via my John Kenny JKDAC32 (via USB). The sound is smooth, effortless, dynamic, and bass is tight and deep. Pretty impressive for a starting point!

I sense a synergy between the M51 and the NAKSA 70. I've got the Goldpoint attenuator turned up full and am using the M51's remote volume function without any obvious degradation in sound quality.

Early days yet, I'll leave the system playing for a few days to burn it in and allow the components to settle in to their new relationship.

I need to sort out the issues with the Mac Mini's flaky USB drivers. Plus find a way to be able to play my 24/192 tracks.

Any advice gratefully accepted.

Graeme

[SugarShark]

finally got the call i've been waiting for

picking it up after work .. can't wait !

i think CAV only got a couple in this shipment, but with any luck there might be a few more units floating around the channel this week

[braj]

Does anyone know of a Sydney store that sells the M51 and if they are due to receive stock in May?

I've emailed the distributor but have not heard back yet...

FYI - I spoke to Audio Products Group. Looks like Len Wallis may be getting some units, although it sounds like it won't be many.

[GraemeB]

Zappaman, was there a particular reason to quote one of my previous ramblings? Or was this another 'new forum bug'? ; )

Just listening to my first music via 24/192 through the M51. Audiophilleo2 arrived today and have it plugged into back of M51, with an Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable connecting it to the Mac Mini. No problems with OS X 10.7.4 (yes I couldn't wait for the official release!!) picking up the AP2. Just needed to choose the driver in Sound properties and Midi setup.

Sounds a little bright, crisp highs and VERY tight bass. Actually, first track I played was Jennifer Warnes "Rock You Gently", as previously the bass in the intro, while always deep, almost swamped the rest of the instruments and her vocal entry. The 'mud' has cleared significantly!

I know it's off topic but is there a 'burn-in' period for the AP2? I guess there is, so hoping the sound mellows further without losing the clarity. Now to think about whether to 'upgrade' to the new Pure Power battery pack. *sigh* PLEASE tell me there's an end somewhere soon to the 'upgrade' path, or have I been afflicted with a case of chronic 'upgrade-itis'??

Overall, very happy with the NAD M51, especially the multi-digital inputs and remote digital volume control.

Will be interesting to compare straight USB-USB with the current USB-SPDIF setup once the firmware update arrives from NAD.

Edited by GraemeB, 16 April 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[kunarx]

Will be interesting to compare straight USB-USB with the current USB-SPDIF setup once the firmware update arrives from NAD.

Is NAD updating the firmware for the M51? If so, do you know when.

[GraemeB]

Just before Easter I was told, by Todd Norberry of the Aussie NAD importer, Audio Products Group, that a firmware update IS in the pipeline. Not sure how long that pipeline is though! Todd was extremely helpful, following through at every step of the process to resolve the issue I'd reported.

NAD is aware of connectivity issues (they replicated it in their workshop) between Mac OS X Lion and NAD M51 when trying to use a direct USB-USB connection.

So far, I've found the M51 works fine with Optical, HDMI, and SPDIF digital inputs when used with OS X Lion. Can't vouch for Windows connectivity, and haven't come across any such issues when I was researching solutions to my particular Lion-related USB issues.

Edited by GraemeB, 16 April 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[kunarx]

Can't vouch for Windows connectivity, and haven't come across any such issues when I was researching solutions to my particular Lion-related USB issues.

Ok. Thanks for the info.

I have not come across any connectivity issues using Windows 7.
I did however find a slight improvement in the lower end when using AP2 into SPDIF rather than USB direct.
I can be happy with either but as I already have the AP2 I continue to use it.

I hope you are enjoying the dac as much as I am..

regards
Kunar

[GraemeB]

Kunar, the increased bass 'focus' was one of the first things I noticed when I plugged the AP2 into the M51. I use the Jennifer Warnes track I mentioned earlier, from "The Hunter" album, as a reference piece for bass reproduction.

Thank you, yes, I AM enjoying music via the M51, and the rest of the system. Not quite 'there' yet, per my particular music-reproduction preferences. I'm awaiting some new speakers that I think (hope!) will create the synergy I am seeking. But I am clear that the M51 is definitely a key part of the system that is forming here.

But as people around here are fond of saying, YMMV (your milage may vary)!

[A J]

Team I think I found another bug in the firmware - just got back from a week away and the NAD came out of standby but is frozen - cannot change inputs with or without remote or the volume. It's a big shiny paperweight in this state. I've tried turning off/on and disconnecting power. AJ

[mikey d]

Team I think I found another bug in the firmware - just got back from a week away and the NAD came out of standby but is frozen - cannot change inputs with or without remote or the volume. It's a big shiny paperweight in this state. I've tried turning off/on and disconnecting power. AJ

Bugger! Digital glitches.

[krebetman]

Team I think I found another bug in the firmware - just got back from a week away and the NAD came out of standby but is frozen - cannot change inputs with or without remote or the volume. It's a big shiny paperweight in this state. I've tried turning off/on and disconnecting power. AJ

Hmm don't suppose it has Ctrl, alt and del keys?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GraemeB]

AJ, have you tried a system reset? See manual, but basically turn it off completely first. Press Input button on front, then power back on with switch on back...Keep pressing input button until you get a flashing reset message on screen. Then let go of input button and press source button ( the one under the NAD sign) within 3 seconds. M51 should then shut itself down. Then try using remote again to power on.

Let me know how you go.

Edited by GraemeB, 16 April 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[A J]

Thanks Graeme - I managed to fix it - by holding the source button in during boot up after a complete power down. It seemed to get stuck on the media PC (Mac mini running Win7 MC) so there could well have been something wrong with the HDMI feed that was jamming the NAD. All good now.

[seenc]

hi guys,
many thanks for very interesting feedbacks!

Could someone make the photos of inside the NAD m51?
It's very interesting to see the Zetex DAC chip, USB and power supply organizing.

[GraemeB]

OK, confession time.

First, glad you 'fixed' the problem AJ.

I had similar problem with HDMI a few days ago. I've been using the HDMI input with my OPPO 93 without any problems, so I wondered what Mac Mini HDMI to M51 HDMI would sound like. Quickly had problems with the system freeze AJ just experienced. NOTHING on front panel responded, and remote was useless too. So I did what AJ just did and recovered full operation again. But I ended up disconnecting the Mac Mini from HDMI and went back to optical.

I, too, suspect there is an HDMI 'glitch'. I'll let Todd know. Might be worth giving him a call too AJ. That way NAD can't dismiss it as a fluke, one-off occurrence.

[HumanMedia]

Now I want one.

[88pro]

Now I want one.

+1

[Lil Caesar]

Now be nice boys.

Frankly, I'm surprised this stuff was not found earlier, and on a greater scale. I'm amazed that I have not personally had any issues at all.

It's a bloody complex piece of kit, and for those of us who have been playing with HDMI / PC-USB / HiRez PCM / DSD for a couple of years, these things are not anything new.

That's no excuse as far as NAD is concerned - it's disappointing actually, but at least Graeme has had some traction thru the local NAD distributor re the Mac USB issues, and AJ was able to reboot his M51 as per the manual.

I always had bluescreen issues and handshaking problems with HDMI when I was using my PC into a Pre/Pro as part of a home theatre. I'd need to reboot / power off / disconnect / reconnect cables once a month.

The PC HDMI drivers were awfully unstable when trying to use the full HDMI functionality of sending video to a screen that is connected to an audio processor and stripping the said audio signal. Handshaking contentions were almost always the root cause. If you didn't power everything UP and DOWN in the right order, the image would fail to be rendered (blocked) or the PC would hang.

I'm glad my M51 has not had these issues with the PS3 and my SHARP LCD, and that the PC USB drivers are stable. I know Denon and Emotiva owners have also experienced these HDMI issues, and there are no doubt others.

Edited by Lil Caesar, 17 April 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[SugarShark]

Fired up my new M51 for the first time last night. Initial impressions in my own setup are very positive, couldn't wipe the grin off my face

This is a new system I'm building so there were no other exotic DACs to compare it to.. but it wiped the floor with the Marantz 67SE I'd been using as a stand in. The character of the music is very natural. Treble is present but not bright or fatiguing at all and the bass tightened up a lot. I'm not really best placed to give a lengthy review of it, but right now I'm very happy.

I'd been having doubts about the power amp (NAD C275), since it didn't play that well with the marantz, but they were put to rest last night. there was much better synergy between the NAD gear. Would be nice if they were the same colour, but guess i have to upgrade to the master series for that

Mostly listened to streaming FLAC files via optical last night, although I did also test the coax and hdmi inputs. So far no issues with lock ups or glitches of any kind.

I was hoping I could stream 88 khz flac files via optical but had no luck with that. has anyone done that successfully or am I going to have to switch to coax?

[GraemeB]

SugarShark, first, congrats on your patience waiting for an M51! I hope you find the wait worthwhile, after letting it burn-in a bit.

Re 88khz replay via optical, I'm sure I played back tracks in 44.1, 88.2, 48, 96 (mainly Apple AIFF) via the M51's optical connection without any apparent problems.

I'm finding the sound of USB-SPDIF/Coax, via an Audiophilleo2, much richer/detailed compared to optical playback.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Graeme

Edited by GraemeB, 17 April 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[dyl1dyl]

Just got my NAD M51! Managed to pick it up second hand from someone who is doing renovations so had to sell all gosto audio stuff. Seems new stock is only coming to singapore in end may-early June so im very happy that I managed to get it will post impressions later.

[pchan]

Just got my NAD M51! Managed to pick it up second hand from someone who is doing renovations so had to sell all gosto audio stuff. Seems new stock is only coming to singapore in end may-early June so im very happy that I managed to get it will post impressions later.

I'm jealous!

[cheesehead]

I've also ordered one, some time in May is the advice so far...