95 replies to this topic

[Dr Good Vibe]

Off to a bad start, I found this discusion very interesting.
So what are your idea's and what have you put into prctice with isolation ?

[Dismord]

Off to a bad start, I found this discusion very interesting.
So what are your idea's and what have you put into prctice with isolation ?

Dear Dr Vibe, I don't understand what you're saying with ' Off to a bad start'. Who? Where?
As to isolation, I don't use any having defeated the isolation on my VPI 'HRX' TT and mounted it on a 1/2 thick slab of slate which sits on a Soundesign heavy steel rack which in turn sits on a massive stone floor. Problem solved for me but my approach would be disaster in other environments. Horses for courses.
I will however recommend a cheap solution for those wanting isolation from floor born vibrations. Take two concrete paving slabs ( paint them black if you want to avoid 'she who must be obeyed' suing for divorce) place a partially inflated motor bike inner tube between them adjusting the pressure to suit the weight of your TT.
Don't however let non audiophiles observe you pumping up your support. They already think we're mad enough already.

[Dr Good Vibe]

The bad start was the original post that went side ways and is now re-positioned on Isolation platform.

Edited by Dr Good Vibe, 24 March 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[Tax]

DGV,

I am using a borrowed SRA (Silent Running Audio) stand for the TT and a contraption made up of Mecados, Herbies Audio Lab footers and basalt slabs (3 levels with Mecados and Herbies b/w each layer) for the Micro Seiki Motor.

I will be getting a passive Vibraplane 2210 in the next couple of months as I am advised that it works well with the non suspended RX5000. I intend to mount both the motor and the TT on the Vibraplane.

[JohnA]

i am on a concrete slab and i find the incuded feet with my HRX are working a bloody treet.
Havent felt the need to do anything to it.

[proftournesol]

When I rebuild the country chateau next year I'll aim to have a separate small room for all the gear, and have it all wall mounted. That's the best isolation. In the meantime I have a Sound Design isolation table (that does RF isolation too) sitting on a bike inner tube. The suspension on the PT is tunes to provide pretty effective isolation too.

[blinky]

I use Moss Air-Springs and felt pucks for my BL-91 Micro.

[GregWormald]

As I mentioned elsewhere the ultimate isolation has been to have the t/t in another room, almost completely isolated sonically. I suppose I could actually put it in the garage or next door.

Since I like the t/t convenient to my listening chair, I use a Dekstand (a light, rigid stand designed specifically for Linns).

Greg

[Arg]

As I mentioned elsewhere the ultimate isolation has been to have the t/t in another room, almost completely isolated sonically. ...

+1
works a treat...

OTOH putting the TT right next to the subwoofer probably 'livens it up'.... which seems to be a priority for many audiophiles.

[spike89]

Have been meaning to ask before, but Blinky has stated it, using AIR SPRINGS, where does 'one' purchase these from and maybe 'cost', am using normal well made springs under my TT now and they seem to work quite well, and had my floor 'stumped' up just recently which also works a treat.

[Grumpy]

I bought myself a Ikea Lack Table and i have some nice spongie feet to use when I get the Yam TT up and running again

[Batty]

I use 2 lack tables in a tower configuration which seems to work quite well.

Sent via Tapatalk and Xperia Arc.

[davidsss]

Sandbox works for me on a wooden floor. Also put some extra support under the floor although I might add to that one day.

You have to be careful though. I used to get woofer pumping. The funny thing was that it depended on which record was being played. Some were bad, some records gave no pumping. I solved this with a subsonic filter.

DS

Edited by davidsss, 24 March 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[20hertz]

For timber floors a post going right through the floor into the ground is very good. It only has to be a 2 inch round or square post, totally free from the house and its resonance. A plate can put on the post at floor level or bring it up to TT height. Of course you still have airborne vibration to deal with.

[Dr Good Vibe]

When I rebuild the country chateau next year I'll aim to have a separate small room for all the gear, and have it all wall mounted. That's the best isolation. In the meantime I have a Sound Design isolation table (that does RF isolation too) sitting on a bike inner tube. The suspension on the PT is tunes to provide pretty effective isolation too.

Prof will have a wall frame available by then if the size is right for you I won't need it all .

Tax think I'm going MinusK spoke to Caliburn at length we came up a solution for my thing just too heavy to be on a wall,
I can drop it into a cradle so that all you see is a flat base, keep the motor off the Vibraplane if you can.
Thanks Caliburn hope you enjoyed the coffee mate, love the math you came up with, absolute genius.
Will need to weld up a 100mm leags and 50mm rails something like a Rockport, think it will have aprovel.

[Tax]

Tax think I'm going MinusK spoke to Caliburn at length we came up a solution for my thing just too heavy to be on a wall,
I can drop it into a cradle so that all you see is a flat base, keep the motor off the Vibraplane if you can.

Hi DGV,

Yes, the Minus-K should be great.

I am getting the Vibraplane as I have already committed to the seller.

Klyne went to a very happy new owner this morning. It synergised well with his system. One happy new owner.

I am now minus record playing capability until I get my new phono.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers

[turntable]

Hi DGV,

Yes, the Minus-K should be great.

I am getting the Vibraplane as I have already committed to the seller.

Klyne went to a very happy new owner this morning. It synergised well with his system. One happy new owner.

I am now minus record playing capability until I get my new phono.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers

Tax, you can't stop on that. What new phono are you getting?

[Dr Good Vibe]

Great Tax I understand a deal is a deal a man of integrity Mr Tax,
Will look forward to your thoughts on the new unit once it's in and gooing, will have some pic's soon on the build for you Tax, didn't follow up on the 8000 money going else where to a new lead block and stainless cased motor oh also got the ruby balls for the bearing.

[Tax]

Tax, you can't stop on that. What new phono are you getting?

LP2 Deluxe with WE tubes and upgraded SUT's

[turntable]

LP2 Deluxe with WE tubes and upgraded SUT's

Nice, a Dert special. Had a feeling that would be it. Dual input?

Why no Omnigon :-) ?

[Dismord]

LP2 Deluxe with WE tubes and upgraded SUT's

I've been fiddling around with TT's for some decades but that's a bit too esoteric even for me. I imagine WE represents Western Electric but the remainder escapes me. I'd take LP2 to be the original Musical Fidelity LP 2 phono preamp but that's solid state. As to SUT's I draw a complete blank. Don't bother to translate though, I'll just go put on one of those funny old round black things, pretend I'm running a state of the art analogue rig and not worry myself with LP 2 Deluxe's, WE's and SUT's.
Anyhow, I'm sure you bods know what you're doing.

Edited by Dismord, 25 March 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Tax]

Nice, a Dert special. Had a feeling that would be it. Dual input?

Why no Omnigon :-) ?

Thuchan's via Unoear who just bought the Omnigon.

Why no Omnigon you ask?.....I am not in the league of those who can fork out $50K on a phonostage without spousal induced divorce or castration :-)

[Tax]

I've been fiddling around with TT's for some decades but that's a bit too esoteric even for me. I imagine WE represents Western Electric but the remainder escapes me. I'd take LP2 to be the original Musical Fidelity LP 2 phono preamp but that's solid state. As to SUT's I draw a complete blank. Don't bother to translate though, I'll just go put on one of those funny old round black things, pretend I'm running a state of the art analogue rig and not worry myself with LP 2 Deluxe's, WE's and SUT's.
Anyhow, I'm sure you bods know what you're doing.

Hi Dismord,

Nothing fancy. Yes WE is Western Electric. LP2 Deluxe is the phono stage from Lamm Industries.

[Dismord]

Hi Dismord,

Nothing fancy. Yes WE is Western Electric. LP2 Deluxe is the phono stage from Lamm Industries.

Thanks for the explanation but what's a 'SUT'?
I run a stock standard Manley 'Steelhead'- previously a Boulder. Although it had more slam on the bottom end I found it wasn't as 'goose bump inducing' as the 'Steelhead'.

[Tax]

Thanks for the explanation but what's a 'SUT'?
I run a stock standard Manley 'Steelhead'- previously a Boulder. Although it had more slam on the bottom end I found it wasn't as 'goose bump inducing' as the 'Steelhead'.

SUT = Step Up Transformer used to increase output on very low output cartridges.

Sorry for not including that earlier.

Yes, both Boulder and Steelhead are well considered.

[turntable]

Thuchan's via Unoear who just bought the Omnigon.

Why no Omnigon you ask?.....I am not in the league of those who can fork out $50K on a phonostage without spousal induced divorce or castration :-)

I have allready my kids, so castration sounds pretty reasonable

[Dismord]

SUT = Step Up Transformer used to increase output on very low output cartridges.

Sorry for not including that earlier.

Yes, both Boulder and Steelhead are well considered.

AH! Step up transformer, those I've been well acquainted with for a long time but not come across them being called SUT's. I have nasty recollections of Ortophon SUT"S that plugged directly into the RCA jacks on the back of a pre-amp and of several Denon devices, none of which lit my fire. Apparently there is an SUT of some kind inside my "Steelhead' but I've not used it much since going back to ( brace yourself for audiophile blasphemy !) moving magnets as the 'Steelhead', unlike most phono-preamps, provides great input flexibility for moving magnets the industry thinks don't deserve any special attention. My moving magnet blasphemy may change though as I recently auditioned an Air Tight PC-3 moving coil which gave the most exciting and musical sound I've yet heard on my rig.
Better than all the Koetsu's, Ortophons, Sumikos, Lyras etc MC's I've fought with and lost over the decades in fact. My only doubt is that watching it track LP's pressed off centre from head on I suspect it would prefer a heavier arm than mine or maybe I could add a damping trough from a Townsend 'Rock' - if I could figure out how to attach a paddle to the Air Tight. My analogue instincts tell me that would be a killer combination.

Edited by Dismord, 25 March 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[wolster]

The Linn Trampolin works well for me Good Doctor.

[GFuNK]

+1
works a treat...

OTOH putting the TT right next to the subwoofer probably 'livens it up'.... which seems to be a priority for many audiophiles.

What about a vinyl rip, captures the vinyl sound without those nasty loud speakers vibrating the air around the turntable!

[:) al]

wooden floor, ikea support and supplied feet on rega p9 is all thats necessary in my case.

in my setup the turntable though is not in the middle of the sound stage, its located on the other side of the room well away from speakers but nice and close to phono stage preamp and other 2ch source gear.

physical separation can be your friend in this case I think. for those with no choice but plonking their turntables right in between where their speakers image other means of isolation might be more necessary

ps for regas their wall mount is an extremely effective and rather cheap form of isolation as well (circa $240 or less on the web)

http://www.audioadvi...p?number=REWALL

Edited by :) al, 25 March 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Dismord]

What about a vinyl rip, captures the vinyl sound without those nasty loud speakers vibrating the air around the turntable!

Nothing would surprise me. I've come across someone who preferred to run their valve pre-amp on top of their sub woofer. Go figure !

[turntable]

+1
works a treat...

OTOH putting the TT right next to the subwoofer probably 'livens it up'.... which seems to be a priority for many audiophiles.

What about a vinyl rip, captures the vinyl sound without those nasty loud speakers vibrating the air around the turntable!

You two talk absolute garbage sometimes. adequately isolated turntables have no issues with vibrating air from speakers.

[petng]

I have wooden floors, which gave my TT nightmares with feedback. I am now using HRS platforms which has eliminated my problems. Give Warwick from Puremusicgroup a call. I am sure he can supply you a demo for trial. Be warned the HRS stuff is addictive. I have got all their footers and damping plates on just about every component in my system. You really don't know what distortions you are getting from vibrations until you eliminate them.

[GFuNK]

You two talk absolute garbage sometimes. adequately isolated turntables have no issues with vibrating air from speakers.

Wow, your ignorance on display for all to see...

Insonification is a strong excitation mechanism, Your response indicates you have little understanding of the relative importance of structural isolation and acoustic isolation.

[turntable]

Wow, your ignorance on display for all to see...

Insonification is a strong excitation mechanism, Your response indicates you have little understanding of the relative importance of structural isolation and acoustic isolation.

Yes with your inspid expertise, it is no wonder turntables can play music at all with adequate isolation. One should go back to digital world if you have nothing of value to add.

[GFuNK]

Yes with your inspid expertise, it is no wonder turntables can play music at all with adequate isolation. One should go back to digital world if you have nothing of value to add.

What is inspid?

I thought it was a reasonable point, why bother completely structurally isolating your turntable if acoustic excitation took over as the dominant excitation many dB ago? ... Doesn't it make sense to treat both?

I think I used the analogy: it's like tying Usain Bolt to a fat kid for a three legged race. Your awesome isolation table is not going to do much!

Edited by GFuNK, 25 March 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[Tax]

I have allready my kids, so castration sounds pretty reasonable

Quite true, the Omnigon is for you. would work well with the Atlas. It has a total of 5 MC inputs and 1 phono and 5 line inputs. You could get rid of the input switcher.

What a beauty. here is a pic

Attached Files

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[turntable]

What is inspid?

I thought it was a reasonable point, why bother completely structurally isolating your turntable if acoustic excitation took over as the dominant excitation many dB ago? ... Doesn't it make sense to treat both?

I think I used the analogy: it's like tying Usain Bolt to a fat kid for a three legged race. Your awesome isolation table is not going to do much!

You are a sound engineer by trade right?. rather than smart comments, how about educating us with some specific examples and methods of what you are talking about and how to solve them. I am sure everyone will thank you collectively, myself included.

I have a concrete floor and my tables isolated. I don't have any feedback or obvious sonic issues with my tables even when playing at 110db and people dancing all over the floor.

That is different to any room issues with bass etc caused by the speaker/ room interface. That is something I definately do need to work on.

Edited by turntable, 25 March 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[turntable]

Quite true, the Omnigon is for you. would work well with the Atlas. It has a total of 5 MC inputs and 1 phono and 5 line inputs. You could get rid of the input switcher.

What a beauty. here is a pic

Thanks Tax,
Dert has sent me quite a few photo's and the phono only version is quite abit cheaper - but still stupid expensive thou. very impressive but out of my league. I may not be castrated, but I would be divorced and have most of my gear up for sale.
Funny, I am not even using the switcher at the moment - only using two cartridges ATM - the rest just don't seem worthy
oh to win lotto

Edited by turntable, 25 March 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[Yamaha Man]

I'm hoping my new racks are the only isolation I need. Fingers crossed!

[GFuNK]

You are a sound engineer by trade right?. rather than smart comments, how about educating us with some specific examples and methods of what you are talking about and how to solve them. I am sure everyone will thank you collectively, myself included.

I have a concrete floor and my tables isolated. I don't have any feedback or obvious sonic issues with my tables even when playing at 110db and people dancing all over the floor.

That is different to any room issues with bass etc caused by the speaker/ room interface. That is something I definately do need to work on.

That's a fair call...

I think firstly, if you are willing to spend in the area of 10k, hire a consultant to determine a solution to meet your needs. I guarantee you will end up with a better result than buying off the shelf. By the way I am not a consultant for hire .

If you own a high end modern turntable, I would contact the manufacturer with your concerns. If they have isolated elements within the turntable, chances are, using an isolation platform may result in unfavavourable coupling, making the situation worse. In laymens terms, if the turntable was designed for a rigid platform and you stick it on a soft one, that could result in an unfavourable outcome.

Edited by GFuNK, 25 March 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[Tax]

Very good generic advice on some posts here, for the novice which inadvertantly or by choice seems to lead onto some debate ala the high res debate

However it would be beneficial, prudent and appreciated that those who post on some of these topics, especially when it comes to turntables, arms, cartridges, phonostages etc that they have not used or are not intimately familiar with just not post some generic advice.

I certainly don't try and post on a topic unless it is to share my personal experience. Not what I think it may do, how a cable may sound etc etc. There is no way you can tell until you hear it in a system.

Some of us here are on first names basis with the manufacturers (if they are still alive and coherent that is) of their/our respective equipment. In some cases we are already pushing the boundries of the equipment beyond what the manufacturer thought possible or wanted us to without buying the uber expensive next model up (if there is one), In some cases our gear is Vintage and those companies do not exist. So guess we have already sucked that egg

There is nothing that beats real life experience so let's all live it first and discuss our experience thereafter.

[GFuNK]

I have experience with isolating equipment from both structural and acoustic excitation.

[turntable]

Very good generic advice on some posts here, for the novice which inadvertantly or by choice seems to lead onto some debate ala the high res debate

However it would be beneficial, prudent and appreciated that those who post on some of these topics, especially when it comes to turntables, arms, cartridges, phonostages etc that they have not used or are not intimately familiar with just not post some generic advice.

I certainly don't try and post on a topic unless it is to share my personal experience. Not what I think it may do, how a cable may sound etc etc. There is no way you can tell until you hear it in a system.

Some of us here are on first names basis with the manufacturers (if they are still alive and coherent that is) of their/our respective equipment. In some cases we are already pushing the boundries of the equipment beyond what the manufacturer thought possible or wanted us to without buying the uber expensive next model up (if there is one), In some cases our gear is Vintage and those companies do not exist. So guess we have already sucked that egg

There is nothing that beats real life experience so let's all live it first and discuss our experience thereafter.

+ one Tax. too much generic advise without any specifics, even when asked.

I personally use a SRA platform under my TW Acustik table - commonly known as a non suspended, heavy platter table. I had great success with Vibrapods as well - they are very cheap and well worthwhile on non suspended tables.

My other two tables have in built suspension, one is SOTA and the other quite effective. The Linn LP12 does like a light table, or a light steel like table that is good for allowing the vibrations a fast exit point. As some have mentioned, if you have a concrete wall, a wall stand is extremely good on suspended tables.

cheers

[Tax]

I have experience with isolating equipment from both structural and acoustic excitation.

Not doubting your experience with isolation from structural and acoustic excitation. Not doubting that the theory and your learning exists either. But am experienced enough to know that no two differing pieces of equipment react the same. I also teach theoretical concepts in a University environment and see that sometimes the theory doesn't mimic operational parameters in my paid day job which is aligned with the theory.

My concern is all encompassing theoretic or generic posts (not yours in particular) which become acrimonious, that seem to be on the increase on this forum lately.