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Goodbye Jitter ?


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#1 Nada

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

exau2i multi-channel asynchronous usb i2s interface fft plot
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/exadevices/183374-exau2i-multi-channel-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface-100.html#post2909397

using 1khz -80db @ 32bit float/192k

Does this plot indicate that with gear currently available, jitter can effectively be elimiated?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41366[/ATTACH]

Edited by Nada, 20 February 2012 - 06:57 PM.

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#2 Drizt

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

There will always be jitter, it is just a matter of whether it is audible or not.

There is not a lot of real world testing of actual audibility, which is an absolute shame.
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#3 proftournesol

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:54 PM

You think that it's inaudible?

regards Michael
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#4 kajak12

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:51 PM

There will always be jitter, it is just a matter of whether it is audible or not.

There is not a lot of real world testing of actual audibility, which is an absolute shame.

here we go again

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#5 LogicprObe

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:53 PM

You think that it's inaudible?


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#6 rantan

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:58 PM

Damn straight Mario. It's like a revolving door.

here we go again



#7 Drizt

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:03 PM

You think that it's inaudible?


It certainly is audible in some situations but certainly not all.

I honestly believe people worry about it far too much, so much so it is like the boggy man.
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#8 Drizt

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:04 PM

Damn straight Mario. It's like a revolving door.


You are surprised by people having different opinions on the matter?

At times it seems only certain opinions are allowed to be expressed.
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#9 rantan

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:16 PM

No offense was intended to anyone and I certainly did not personify my post. I was just expressing my own opinion and that is that this topic seems to crop up almost continually and then proceeds to become divisive.

#10 Decky

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:19 PM

Nice plot - very nice indeed.


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#11 Drizt

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

Here is another DAC for comparison.

http://www.anedio.com

http://www.anedio.co...queezebox_touch
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#12 GFuNK

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:19 AM

Here is another DAC for comparison.

http://www.anedio.com

http://www.anedio.co...queezebox_touch


The SBT looks pretty good! kind of shows you don't need their DAC :P.

Their results are a little strange, firstly how do they get the noise floor below 150 dB when they quote a signal to noise of 128 dB for balanced output. Second, they claim to calculate the "jitter" by summing the rms peaks, how does that give units of seconds?

#13 GFuNK

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:46 AM

... Unless your performing coherent or complex averaging, that will drop the noise floor, but won't that also reduce any random modulation? Hmmm... What is the jitter they are trying to measure?

#14 Redman09

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:44 AM

You think that it's inaudible?

Je pense donc je suis. I think therefore I am

#15 Sir Sanders Zingmore

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:01 AM

Je pense donc je suis. I think therefore I am


That's what you think

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#16 nofixedaddress

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:48 PM

Here is another DAC for comparison.

http://www.anedio.com

http://www.anedio.co...queezebox_touch


Have a look at the scale on NADA's plot Drizt. Far Far better than the two you posted. In fact it is off the scale of any plots on that site.

Like already mentioned though - how are they measuring that? Apples with Apples?

NFA

Edited by nofixedaddress, 21 February 2012 - 05:50 PM.


#17 Drizt

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:00 PM

Have a look at the scale on NADA's plot Drizt. Far Far better than the two you posted. In fact it is off the scale of any plots on that site.

Like already mentioned though - how are they measuring that? Apples with Apples?

NFA


I didn't say they were better or not, I just added them as a comparison.
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#18 :) al

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:48 PM

there is dac jitter and then theres jitter due to miss timing between transport and dac clocks...this is due to separate clocks not in synch as opposed to players for instance where transport and dac share the same clock, systems like denon link where clock signal is use to synch clocks between transport and dac, or eg the likes of dcs and esoteric that use master clocks to synchronise timing.

just looking at dac jitter is putting head in the sand as to the sources of jitter...
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#19 davewantsmoore

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:07 PM

Does this plot indicate that with gear currently available, jitter can effectively be elimiated?


Yes. This year is definitely going to be the year 9018 ;-)

To be fair with your question/statement though ... this picture is of the 9018 being fed (and eliminating) very low levels of jitter. (I mean there was not much jitter to begin with from the Exa USB interface)


If I could bear to sell my ME preamp, I might replace it with a Anedio D2 or the Exa e18 DAC. Perhaps I should take their in home trial. Unfortunately I can't have both :-/ (I mean both the ME preamp, and a 9018 based DAC/pre)

Edited by davewantsmoore, 21 February 2012 - 09:11 PM.


#20 statman

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:13 PM

exau2i multi-channel asynchronous usb i2s interface fft plot
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/exadevices/183374-exau2i-multi-channel-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface-100.html#post2909397

using 1khz -80db @ 32bit float/192k

Does this plot indicate that with gear currently available, jitter can effectively be elimiated?

Whether its the jitter, or whatever, these sure are special devices. The EXA U2I with Buffalo dac and the EXA E18 dac I'm using are giving me so much enjoyment I'm amazed they havent received a lot more recognition . The spatial presentation of these things is amazing , soundstaging is stunningly 3D , with placement of instruments so precisely positioned. Sometimes with a good recording you can sense such precise imaging in both depth and width that its like listening to a recording in a completely different way , hard to explain but no way i'm giving these devices up.
I'm using the E18 dac straight off the dac ouputs with the opamps and filters disconnected, tube output, and trying different combinations of the dac outputs ( the dac chip has 8 outputs, 4 per channel ) and the difference between using just one output and 4 in parallel is quite significant, output impedance is obviously the main factor, but I suspect something else is happening here. Its interesting that people comment on the Sabre "sound'- i can tell you there are a number of Sabre "sounds" , but I doubt the differences wouldn't be so audible without the incredible transperancy of the exa I2S devices.
End of transmission, over and out.

Listening room: (1) Dual PC running Windows Server2012/JRiver/JPlay/AudiophileOptimiser. Sabre 9018  dac with Amanero/FIFO/isolater/Si570 clock. OPA861 Transconductance outputs. 71A , 4P1L or 801A/10Y DHT preamp. DEQX digital active crossover with speaker/room correction.

Red Spade Audio PSE-144 2 way point source horns , with AE 18" bass drivers in sealed boxes.  Horns driven by 4 monobloc low gain , zero feedback push pull triode amps.  Bass driven by high power SS amps.

Luxman PD444 turntable with Dynavector 505 arm, Ortofon SPU cartridge, tube moving coil phono stage.

 

(2) Laptop running Windows Server 2012/JRiver/AO. TDA1541 dac with Amanero/FIFO/isolater/clock/I2S-PCM boards. Stacked AD844 Transconductance outputs. 71A DHT/6H30  preamp with inbuilt tube crossover 71A >220Hz, 6H30<220Hz 

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#21 bzr

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:49 AM

Very interesting dac, they are in the last testing stages for mac too.

#22 statman

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:38 PM

I've been using EXA beta mac drivers on E18 dac for nearly 2 weeks now- no problems. It's too close to be definite, but i used to prefer mac/puremusic/audivrana plus, with these convertors/dacs I prefer windows7/Jriver, but still early days, and it is so close that 5 people would have 5 different opinions.

Listening room: (1) Dual PC running Windows Server2012/JRiver/JPlay/AudiophileOptimiser. Sabre 9018  dac with Amanero/FIFO/isolater/Si570 clock. OPA861 Transconductance outputs. 71A , 4P1L or 801A/10Y DHT preamp. DEQX digital active crossover with speaker/room correction.

Red Spade Audio PSE-144 2 way point source horns , with AE 18" bass drivers in sealed boxes.  Horns driven by 4 monobloc low gain , zero feedback push pull triode amps.  Bass driven by high power SS amps.

Luxman PD444 turntable with Dynavector 505 arm, Ortofon SPU cartridge, tube moving coil phono stage.

 

(2) Laptop running Windows Server 2012/JRiver/AO. TDA1541 dac with Amanero/FIFO/isolater/clock/I2S-PCM boards. Stacked AD844 Transconductance outputs. 71A DHT/6H30  preamp with inbuilt tube crossover 71A >220Hz, 6H30<220Hz 

Hybrid Active MartinLogan stats with12" bass drivers, passive crossovers removed, direct connection to step up transformers. High power SS amps(1000 watts into 1 ohm), active subs for bass room mode correction with DSPeaker bass equaliser.

MIcro-Seiki RX-5000 turntable. LCR tube phono MC capable built into preamp/crossover.

 

Workshop: Windows7/JRiver, various dacs and tube preamps, Acoustat 2+2 electrostatics bi-amped with high power 1000 watt SS amplifiers. 

 

Manufacturer of Supratek preamplifiers.