9 replies to this topic

[GFuNK]

I was lucky enough to have a friend loan me some headphones for the weekend: Seinheiser hd600 and monitor headphones ath-m50's I also had Sony mdr-v900hd's. Hi Wang if your reading .

I haven't had much experience with headphones so needless to say I was looking forward to the weekend! I listened to them through my main rig which consists of: Yamaha rs700, audio gd NFB-2 and squeezebox touch. For comparison I used B&W 685's and whatmough c-30 loudspeakers.

First off, the sony's were ordinary and were simply out classed by the other two, I could not recommend these.

Listening to headphones is certainly different, I struggled with the in-head sound stage at first, but soon accepted it for what it was. You notice detail when listening to good quality cans which is less obvious when listening to loudspeakers, I suspect this is related to HRTF effects and room acoustics. I started to look into crossfeed concepts, I would certainly be interested in listening to a headphone amp with crossfeed!

I will say, the headphones did not compare with the loudspeakers IMO in terms of enjoyment, sorry Wang. having said that, as I eluded to, the headphones provide a different sound which was still very enjoyable. The headphones are just missing the body and weight of the listening experience presented by loudspeakers.

The seinheiser were amazing, very detailed and fast, I really enjoyed the open back design for the airiness it gave to the sound (apologies for my adjectives). They were somewhat bright when compare with my loudspeakers. The bass was very different from a closed back design, kind of like the difference between sitting against a wall and away from it when listening to loudspeakers in terms of bass reinforcement.

The monitors were a completely different beast, closed back design. As a result, they lacked the airiness and had a much more reinforced bass sound. In fact, for critical listening, I find the bass too heavy. They seem to miss some of the detail when compared with the seinheiser. Having said that, when it came to drum and bass tracks such as those from Nero, these were the pick!

My conclusion from this listening session is that.. I want both these headphones!. I'm thinking, on nights when ms GFuNK is occupying the living room I can be in the bedroom with another squeezebox and headphone amp (possibly with the option of crossfeed) enjoying my music .

Edited by GFuNK, 11 February 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[LogicprObe]

I've always preferred open back phones.
The bass is way more natural........it sounds to me.

[MultiplexMan]

Same here. I agree listening through headphones provides a different experience as opposed to using speakers. I find imaging to be more "difficult" until I get into the "groove".

I have found CIEM provide another completely different listening experience. There is a total absence of external influences. Your headspace is the "room". I am enjoying my new in ear monitors.

[LogicprObe]

Imaging isn't that important to me.......I suppose we all listen for different things.
It's the clarity and being able to hear deeper into a track.
Often, I don't particularly like a song but am intrigued by the sound of it...........how the musicians and engineers got it that way.
Mostly, they can't get it live.........probably why more and more bands are playing half their stuff from SD cards these days.

[GFuNK]

Imaging isn't that important to me.......I suppose we all listen for different things.
It's the clarity and being able to hear deeper into a track.
Often, I don't particularly like a song but am intrigued by the sound of it...........how the musicians and engineers got it that way.
Mostly, they can't get it live.........probably why more and more bands are playing half their stuff from SD cards these days.

Interesting, well I think you can extract much more detail from headphones than from loudspeakers, again, very different experiences.

Does anyone have experience with the headroom amps? I'm interested in them because they have a switchable crossfeed circuit built in.

[:) al]

I dont get get how headphones can do detail better. I say this having owned all sorts of headphones for as far as can remember. from in ear, to electrostats to dynamic (senn 580s, 650HD and hd 800)

Imaging for me is main problem. headphones are stuck in your head or at best a little outside your head. the best I remember was with the jecklin float electrostatics once owned which were literally two electrostatic panels that hung in front of your ears. the sennheiser hd800 are approaching similar lines with their dynamic drivers placed a little forward of the ears rather than just directing sound right into them. But still they are more in your head or slightly outside it and for imaging even a budget standmount in a nearfield study setup will do better.

headphones simply just cant recreate the whole room experience speakers do. a couple of little standmounts well setup for 2ch can be quite holographic filling the whole room with sound, just not possible with headphones that seem more locked in close proximity to your head.

In freq response I know the makers will claim what ever eg quoted 14 – 44100 Hz (- 3 dB) for the senn hd800 reality is far from that, see the measurement below.

http://graphs.headph...hType=0[]=863

and in the bass I feel headphones can be pretty limited as well. they just dont do bass you can feel. my system goes down to 15hz hear and feel how that sounds and then compare with the hd800 that go down to 14hz. the headphones are just not even in the ball park for bass and its not that the speakers I have go down low or whatver its just that headphones do bass very differently to speakers that is all. and thats even with very simple tracks

dont get me wrong I love headphones as they give me a chance to listen to music at times just not possible with other systems. they do something well. and thats perhaps a very good mid band performance ? and perhaps thats the detail your talking about

a big headphone fan myself. use a mf x-can v3 myself love it with the sennheissers

[Drizt]

Al, how was that freq. response plot taken?

What should the desired frequency response plot look like for something that is shoved in your ears?

[GFuNK]

I dont get get how headphones can do detail better. I say this having owned all sorts of headphones for as far as can remember. from in ear, to electrostats to dynamic (senn 580s, 650HD and hd 800)

Imaging for me is main problem. headphones are stuck in your head or at best a little outside your head. the best I remember was with the jecklin float electrostatics once owned which were literally two electrostatic panels that hung in front of your ears. the sennheiser hd800 are approaching similar lines with their dynamic drivers placed a little forward of the ears rather than just directing sound right into them. But still they are more in your head or slightly outside it and for imaging even a budget standmount in a nearfield study setup will do better.

headphones simply just cant recreate the whole room experience speakers do. a couple of little standmounts well setup for 2ch can be quite holographic filling the whole room with sound, just not possible with headphones that seem more locked in close proximity to your head.

In freq response I know the makers will claim what ever eg quoted 14 – 44100 Hz (- 3 dB) for the senn hd800 reality is far from that, see the measurement below.

http://graphs.headph...hType=0[]=863

and in the bass I feel headphones can be pretty limited as well. they just dont do bass you can feel. my system goes down to 15hz hear and feel how that sounds and then compare with the hd800 that go down to 14hz. the headphones are just not even in the ball park for bass and its not that the speakers I have go down low or whatver its just that headphones do bass very differently to speakers that is all. and thats even with very simple tracks

dont get me wrong I love headphones as they give me a chance to listen to music at times just not possible with other systems. they do something well. and thats perhaps a very good mid band performance ? and perhaps thats the detail your talking about

a big headphone fan myself. use a mf x-can v3 myself love it with the sennheissers

Very interesting post al!

I think what I'm describing as detail is associated with the fact that some of the low level detail in the music I listened to was more pronounced on the headphones. I suspect this is related to the head related transfer function (HRTF) and room acoustics. It was still there with the loudspeakers just not as pronounced. It might also be due to the brightness of the seinheiser.

I completely agree with you wrt the difference in enjoyment between cans and loudspeakers. I really enjoyed these headphones though, and I agree they certainly have their place.

Have you experimented with any DSP or crossfeed to improve the sound stage?

[GregWormald]

Interesting, well I think you can extract much more detail from headphones than from loudspeakers, again, very different experiences.

Does anyone have experience with the headroom amps? I'm interested in them because they have a switchable crossfeed circuit built in.

I have both a Headroom Little (an "antique":)) and a Headstage Arrow, both with different cross-feeds. While they don't get the image out of your head, they both move it forward of the ears and make, to me, a useful change.

I use the crossfeed all the time.

Greg

[:) al]

Very interesting post al!

I think what I'm describing as detail is associated with the fact that some of the low level detail in the music I listened to was more pronounced on the headphones. I suspect this is related to the head related transfer function (HRTF) and room acoustics. It was still there with the loudspeakers just not as pronounced. It might also be due to the brightness of the seinheiser.

I completely agree with you wrt the difference in enjoyment between cans and loudspeakers. I really enjoyed these headphones though, and I agree they certainly have their place.

Have you experimented with any DSP or crossfeed to improve the sound stage?

gfunk, I also own the little pure class A audio alchemy headphone amp which runs the "HeadRoom's Audio Image Processor"

http://www.stereophi...96aa/index.html

this processing which they share with headroom can switch in and out of circuit at push of a button and also when owned a hk avr it had dolby headphone. while these do add perhaps some spaciousness and moving around of sound stage, I have found them mostly giving a bit different experrience rather than better. And still stuck with the in your head or slightly out of it experience. over long term listening I found ended up bypassing the processor on the audio alchemy amp, preferred the straight through and as far as the hk avr I think a better headphone amp is more important

if can check out the effects of these do experience yourself to see what its like, otherwise just buy the best sounding amp can find. probably the more important thing I think