32 replies to this topic

[orcker]

I just plugged one in to replace the stock input Tungsol 6SL7 in a Weston Topaz EL34 and the sound is just magically transformed. Much better transients and a really special sound! Absolutely stoked.

Any of you guys have a favourite 6SN7/6SL7 input tube?

-O-

[LogicprObe]

It can sure make a difference.................sometimes even in the same brand!
Once I like one, I try and buy a lot more.

[AFCAD]

Have tried the Sylvania 6SL7WGT in a Weston Tempest, thought it was really good. As per another thread somewhere that I posted in, my preferred old 6SL7 type out of the ones that I've tried is the Tung-sol 6SU7GTY (6SL7 equivalent). Seemed to be even more 'special' than the Sylvania to me - with my set up and IMHO (etc etc) does bass better still with great transients etc.

Have fun!!

[orcker]

Have tried the Sylvania 6SL7WGT in a Weston Tempest, thought it was really good. As per another thread somewhere that I posted in, my preferred old 6SL7 type out of the ones that I've tried is the Tung-sol 6SU7GTY (6SL7 equivalent). Seemed to be even more 'special' than the Sylvania to me - with my set up and IMHO (etc etc) does bass better still with great transients etc.

Have fun!!

Hey there AFCAD.

I am very happy that I managed to get hold of a good used pair of these Sylvanias with gold print for a small amount. It's simply quite breathtakingly good. It's as if a weight has been lifted from the amp and music is just faster and zingier. Also, placement of vocals is a lot more forward which suits my rather average speaker placement to a T.

Funny you should mention, but it was your post in the Tempest thread that's inspired me to now go try a Tung-sol 6SU7GTY. Got a used one for a reasonable sum. Can't wait for it to arrive!

Cheers
-O-

[AFCAD]

Hey there AFCAD.

I am very happy that I managed to get hold of a good used pair of these Sylvanias with gold print for a small amount. It's simply quite breathtakingly good. It's as if a weight has been lifted from the amp and music is just faster and zingier. Also, placement of vocals is a lot more forward which suits my rather average speaker placement to a T.

Funny you should mention, but it was your post in the Tempest thread that's inspired me to now go try a Tung-sol 6SU7GTY. Got a used one for a reasonable sum. Can't wait for it to arrive!

Cheers
-O-

G'day Orker,

All sounds good! The Tung-sol tube you are after is the round plate, black coated glass 6SU7GTY. Don't pay inflated BIN prices for the ones on ebay - can do a lot better than that if patient. I have just picked up a spare for a lot cheaper price.

Cheers,
Richard.

[Graywulf]

I just plugged one in to replace the stock input Tungsol 6SL7 in a Weston Topaz EL34 and the sound is just magically transformed. Much better transients and a really special sound! Absolutely stoked.

Any of you guys have a favourite 6SN7/6SL7 input tube?

-O-

I had 1 pair of sylvania 6SL7 for some other amps, and they did have an efect, but as they were the driver tube going into a pair of 6SN7's splitter tubes probably not as noticable as it could have been... the Sylvania's are always a good 'try' in any 6SL7/6SN7 amp.

[circlework]

My 6SL7 saga started with a pair of default 6H9C Reflektor tubes.
Seeking something that didn't sound like it was forced through a strainer, I went with a pair of NOS Sylvania (RCA mfd) Jan-Chs-6SL7GT from around 1944, better, in fact quite nice, but I'm still left wanting.
Next was a NOS pair of Sylvania Jan-6188's. A fraction better, but I still wanted more. (yes, greed is good).
Looking at raves on the net regarding RCA's 5691 and the short supply of anything resembling genuine NOS at a price line that I could afford, led me to eek out a pair of new Sylvania 5691's ... these are near enough to an exact physical match to the RCA's as I can tell, but with black phenolic bases. They sound very musical with a 'zing' in the mid and high registers that was not present in the other types tried. I consider that I was quite lucky with these, as they were purchased untested off evilbey from a seller without a record of tube sales and came within 2.0% of each other.

End of babble ... hope it helps.

Edited by circlework, 31 January 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[ALF]

Well, the 6SN7s are amazing, so I reckon that the SLs should be as well ... thanks for the bump - I'll look for some!

[orcker]

My 6SL7 saga started with a pair of default 6H9C Reflektor tubes.
Seeking something that didn't sound like it was forced through a strainer, I went with a pair of NOS Sylvania (RCA mfd) Jan-Chs-6SL7GT from around 1944, better, in fact quite nice, but I'm still left wanting.
Next was a NOS pair of Sylvania Jan-6188's. A fraction better, but I still wanted more. (yes, greed is good).
Looking at raves on the net regarding RCA's 5691 and the short supply of anything resembling genuine NOS at a price line that I could afford, led me to eek out a pair of new Sylvania 5691's ... these are near enough to an exact physical match to the RCA's as I can tell, but with black phenolic bases. They sound very musical with a 'zing' in the mid and high registers that was not present in the other types tried. I consider that I was quite lucky with these, as they were purchased untested off evilbey from a seller without a record of tube sales and came within 2.0% of each other.

End of babble ... hope it helps.

Hey thanks for sharing.

[Dasher]

G'day Orker,

All sounds good! The Tung-sol tube you are after is the round plate, black coated glass 6SU7GTY. Don't pay inflated BIN prices for the ones on ebay - can do a lot better than that if patient. I have just picked up a spare for a lot cheaper price.

Cheers,
Richard.

Where did you end up getting yours from?

[orcker]

Where did you end up getting yours from?

Off Ebay. Just typed in the code to see what came up.

[Dasher]

Off Ebay. Just typed in the code to see what came up.

Ok I will have to keep my eyes open

[AFCAD]

Off Ebay. Just typed in the code to see what came up.

Yes, ebay and patience for the black glass ones.

[pulinap]

Ken-rad VT321 black bottles - bass kings!!, Russian 1578 (hole plates), Brimar/Mullard CV1988............the holy grail is Marconi B65.

I found RCA 5961/5962 less engaging than above valves in my system - oh I can only afford B65 after my next bank heist.

[Dasher]

Ken-rad VT321 black bottles - bass kings!!, Russian 1578 (hole plates), Brimar/Mullard CV1988............the holy grail is Marconi B65.

I found RCA 5961/5962 less engaging than above valves in my system - oh I can only afford B65 after my next bank heist.

At $1500 a pair its an absolute bargain...might get two pairs

[pulinap]

At $1500 a pair its an absolute bargain...might get two pairs

Unless you are joking, I've seen B65s for much less than that.

[Dasher]

Unless you are joking, I've seen B65s for much less than that.

$1500 for two tubes!!...Yep I am joking.....thats almost another amp.

[ALF]

Is the ECC35 a direct analogue for the 6sl7? You see the occasional Philips/Mullard on ebay.

[Graywulf]

THe Mullard ECC33/35?
I know a guy with a pair of Pye HF25 and the HF12 (triode version).. They use them both..... STUNNING is all I can really say for those tubes.

[orcker]

My 6SL7 saga started with a pair of default 6H9C Reflektor tubes.
Seeking something that didn't sound like it was forced through a strainer, I went with a pair of NOS Sylvania (RCA mfd) Jan-Chs-6SL7GT from around 1944, better, in fact quite nice, but I'm still left wanting.
Next was a NOS pair of Sylvania Jan-6188's. A fraction better, but I still wanted more. (yes, greed is good).
Looking at raves on the net regarding RCA's 5691 and the short supply of anything resembling genuine NOS at a price line that I could afford, led me to eek out a pair of new Sylvania 5691's ... these are near enough to an exact physical match to the RCA's as I can tell, but with black phenolic bases. They sound very musical with a 'zing' in the mid and high registers that was not present in the other types tried. I consider that I was quite lucky with these, as they were purchased untested off evilbey from a seller without a record of tube sales and came within 2.0% of each other.

End of babble ... hope it helps.

Hey I just thought I might say something about these Reflektor 6H9C that are going for like really really cheap on Ebay (bought a pair since they were so reasonably priced when I ordered some 6V6 Reflektors)

Like you, I thought they were absolutely rubbish when I tried one as an input tube in a Weston Topaz EL34. Your (soup?) strainer analogy is spot on.

Then I put the same tube into a Weston Trinity EL34 and it's just bloody impressive. Actually sounds better than the stock Tungsol 6SL7 reissue in my system, or even the old Sylvania 6SL7WGT (which worked so well with the Topaz sounds a little thin and less focused in this latter amp). It also sounds better than a new TJ Fullmusic 6SL7 in this application, that's like ten times the price. Go figure.

Edited by orcker, 12 February 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[orcker]

Is the ECC35 a direct analogue for the 6sl7? You see the occasional Philips/Mullard on ebay.

Apparently so. I just bought a single used tube for a lot less than what people are asking for a matched pair, and when it arrives, hopefully some time soon, and I'll let you know how it works out in my system compared to the Sylvania.

[orcker]

Is the ECC35 a direct analogue for the 6sl7? You see the occasional Philips/Mullard on ebay.

Right my Mullard ECC35 sample arrived today and I have plugged it into the Trinity and hmm, I can't quite say I like it too much.

The overall presentation is rather lifeless - vocals are just a little too recessed and the highs have not much sparkle. Soundstage is fairly narrow as well. Gain is lower than say the Sylvania 6SL7GT.

It might well just be my sample since it's been mentioned to be a great tube by another poster. Mine doesn't appear to be in the best physical condition - seller did not mentioned that the base is a little loose for example - and who knows how accurate the test data might be?

Your mileage may vary in your own system of course.

[orcker]

In the Topaz EL34, this tube really sings. Whilst it didn't work well for me in the Trinity, it's brilliant in the Topaz. Very clear, very lively, very musical. Pretty much my best input tube in this latter amp. Better than the feted Sylvania 6SL7WGT brown base, which I'd happily live with by the way. The Mullard is just clearer and livelier without any harshness.

Edited by orcker, 15 February 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[orcker]

G'day Orker,

All sounds good! The Tung-sol tube you are after is the round plate, black coated glass 6SU7GTY. Don't pay inflated BIN prices for the ones on ebay - can do a lot better than that if patient. I have just picked up a spare for a lot cheaper price.

Cheers,
Richard.

Richard, the Tungsol tube arrived today. Mate you're absolutely right, this is one fantastic tube. Best input tube I have come across for the Weston Trinity (very good also, but bested by the Mullard ECC35 in the Topaz).

It sounds very clear, yet not fatiguing.

Rgds
Orcker

[Tobes]

Richard, the Tungsol tube arrived today. Mate you're absolutely right, this is one fantastic tube. Best input tube I have come across for the Weston Trinity (very good also, but bested by the Mullard ECC35 in the Topaz).

It sounds very clear, yet not fatiguing.

Rgds
Orcker

How did the Tungsol 6SU7GTY compare to the Sylvania 6SL7WGT?
Asking because I have 4 of the Sylvania 'Gold brand' 6SL7WGT's in my tube phono and I'm looking to get a spare set to tuck away. I bought my phono S/H with the Sylvania's and the stock Russian reissue Tungsol 6SL7GT. The Sylvania's were vastly preferable to the Russian tubes.

[orcker]

How did the Tungsol 6SU7GTY compare to the Sylvania 6SL7WGT?
Asking because I have 4 of the Sylvania 'Gold brand' 6SL7WGT's in my tube phono and I'm looking to get a spare set to tuck away. I bought my phono S/H with the Sylvania's and the stock Russian reissue Tungsol 6SL7GT. The Sylvania's were vastly preferable to the Russian tubes.

After 3 months of near continuous tube rolling of the input and driver tubes on four different amps mostly good used tubes and the occasional NOS ones - Weston Topaz EL34 (6SL7->6SL7x2), Weston Trinity EL34 (6SL7->6SN7x2), Dared VP-16 (6SL7x2) and a Consonance amp that doesn't quite apply here (12AT7->12BH7x2), I have come to the conclusion that, ahem, a lot also depends on the, er, source. Silly as that sounds, going from one CD player to another, DAC or no DAC made quite a bit of a difference to the choice of input and driver tubes to get these amps to sound their best. That said, a good combination of tubes is oh so important to sound quality (much like good oil in the car engine)

In the Weston Trinity, I have settled on the Tungsol 6SU7GTY as the input tube of choice. It gives the right focus, weight clarity and width, compared to a whole other bunch of ECC35/6SL7 types including the venerable brown base Sylvania 6SL7WGT, Sylvania 'badboys', and the Mullard ECC35. (The Tungsol 6SU7GTY combined with a pair of 50s Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown-base drivers essentially took the Trinity to a whole other level for me and this my final combination that I have settled on). The Sylvania brown-base tube sounds mellifluous and wide, but has less clarity and focus than the 6SU7GTY as an input tube for this amp - still, it's a damn good tube if I may say.

In the Topaz, the old Mullard ECC35 sounds just so much better than the Tungsol 6SU7GTY as the input tube (with the pair of stock Tungsol 6SL7s as drivers). The Mullard ECC35 has a stupendously high level of clarity and overall 'rightness' as the input tube for this amp. Combine the Mullard with the Tungsol 6SU7GTY as drivers and the Topaz takes on a whole new level of clarity (the same happened with a pair of TJ Fullmusic 6SL7s). In the end, I went back to using the pair of stock Tungsol tubes though, since I didn't think I liked the sound of the Topaz with that much clarity. I think I prefer the Topaz to be just slightly dark and bassy. If I want clarity, I listen to the Trinity.

In the Dared VP-16 (6SL7x2->6v6x4), the Tungsol 6SU7GTY is the absolute business. Beat the Sylvania brown-base hands down for all round listening. It made this bottom end Dared sound expensive. Still, I like the sweetness of the Sylvanias, and these are the gold ones like yours. It's a toss up depending on your musical preferences. I am quite eclectic - blues, jazz, vocals, r&b, classical, opera, so I need the system to be as versatile? The pair of Tungsol 6SU7GTY (with four Reflektor 6V6GTs) gives the Dared tremendous 'versatility' and makes really superb music.

All in all these Tungsol 6SU7GTY are really special tubes, but in the end, you still have to try them to see if they work well for you in your system?

Hope this helps.

ps. That's some serious gear you have!

Edited by orcker, 10 March 2012 - 05:59 PM.

[AFCAD]

Richard, the Tungsol tube arrived today. Mate you're absolutely right, this is one fantastic tube. Best input tube I have come across for the Weston Trinity (very good also, but bested by the Mullard ECC35 in the Topaz).

It sounds very clear, yet not fatiguing.

Rgds
Orcker

Hi Orker,

I've been away for a bit and missed your post. Glad that you came to pretty much the same conclusion as me (i.e. I musn't be going mad - yet!). Looks like you have everything pretty much sorted which is great!

Cheers,
Richard

[Lloyd]

I dunno if it may cause any stress to the amp, but ECC35s draw 0.4 amps, 6SL7s draw 0.3 amps. Might not sound much, but that's like 33% more.

This is apparently a reason ECC32/33s and CV181s have been a bit popular as a drop in replacement for 6SN7s - they are NOT drop ins - they have 50% more draw, and as a consequence they may sound better, apparently, but watch out for smoke - I wouldn't drop either of these into my Trinity.

I may be wrong, but I think those expensive NP golf-ball valves are higher current.

I err on the side of caution. You don't put super hot spark plugs into your car unless it was designed to take them.

EDIT - having said that, whilst I enjoy valve rolling and have a single 6SU7 NOS which I reserve for special occasions, I have found that it doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference in Earle's amps - after all, they sound pretty damn good with just the stock NP valves don't they? Maybe I am deaf due to the leprosy and the plague and other minor ailments.

Edited by Lloyd, 10 March 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[orcker]

Hi Orker,

I've been away for a bit and missed your post. Glad that you came to pretty much the same conclusion as me (i.e. I musn't be going mad - yet!). Looks like you have everything pretty much sorted which is great!

Cheers,
Richard

Hey there Richard. Thanks for the recommendation!

-orcker-

Edited by orcker, 10 March 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[orcker]

I dunno if it may cause any stress to the amp, but ECC35s draw 0.4 amps, 6SL7s draw 0.3 amps. Might not sound much, but that's like 33% more.

This is apparently a reason ECC32/33s and CV181s have been a bit popular as a drop in replacement for 6SN7s - they are NOT drop ins - they have 50% more draw, and as a consequence they may sound better, apparently, but watch out for smoke - I wouldn't drop either of these into my Trinity.

I may be wrong, but I think those expensive NP golf-ball valves are higher current.

I err on the side of caution. You don't put super hot spark plugs into your car unless it was designed to take them.

EDIT - having said that, whilst I enjoy valve rolling and have a single 6SU7 NOS which I reserve for special occasions, I have found that it doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference in Earle's amps - after all, they sound pretty damn good with just the stock NP valves don't they? Maybe I am deaf due to the leprosy and the plague and other minor ailments.

Thanks for the information about the ECC35 Lloyd. I might just send an email to Earle Weston to enquire if it's ok to continue to use it in the Topaz (no smoke yet ;-))

I was telling a friend the other day that I thought the Weston stock tubes are just very very well chosen indeed. Don't laugh but I even tried to roll the rectifier tube on these two amps and in the end, I went back to the stock potato mashers.

That said, I am just glad that I could tweak the Trinity with tubes that made it sound better for me.

Ultimately, everything affects everything else doesn't it?

I am through with tube rolling these amps btw ;-) I just want to sit back and listen to music now.

Edited by orcker, 10 March 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[Lloyd]

orcker - Yeah, rolling is kinda fun, but in the end, as you say, just enjoy once you have tweaked. Don't get obsessive about it. My only advice is to try to avoid making any judgement based on used tubes - ya dunno where they have been - but are generally fine for non-critical listening.

I am actually pretty sure ECC35s will be fine having looked at a few more spec sheets in the last hour (I have no life on a Saturday night), as 6SN7s draw 0.6 amps, and Earle has said that it is fine to mix and match whatever combination of SNs and SLs that I like, just that SNs have much lower gain if put at the front. ECC35s are in-between, but checking is always good as there maybe something idiots like me can be missing, as he sternly warned me against 6L6s in the Trinity, but 6L6GCs are OK. I would not have known. An now using KT77s and am happy - drop in for EL34s or big bottle EH 6CA7s which are pretty cool.

I'd be a bit careful with the potato mashers, if they are the 5r4. Something to do with the max uf of some first stage capacitor (those big blue or black things nearly the size of a wine bottle cork in the guts of the amp) - I think they are in the single digits or low teens for 5R4. 5u4g is higher at I dunno, 30 or something, and 5AR4/GZ34 are closer to 50 or 60 uf (and since they are indirect heating and a slow start up I prefer 5AR4s to prevent what is known as cathode stripping on the other valves, but I digress). I am not an electrical engineer. If you look at rectifier data sheets they say "max C".

I very much doubt whether it would damage your amp and is a minor point, it may just cause the rectifier to have a shorter life, and those potato mashers are built like bricks.

I think that the caps are now about 40 or so uf, without consulting the curcuit which makes my head hurt.

A valuable reference for 6SN7s is http://www.head-fi.o...nce-6sn7-thread Way too much information, to the point of being pedantic. But educational.

Edited by Lloyd, 10 March 2012 - 07:55 PM.
added link

[orcker]

Hi there Lloyd.

Good to meet another Trinity owner.

I am not sure if I have ever liked 6SN7s as the input tube for it or the Topaz. I think I have tried 11 different ones in either amp. They generally just don't sound right in that spot for me. Way too little gain.

I tried a Mullard GZ34 in place of the stock JAN Cetron 5r4 potato masher, a couple of other 5r4 types (e.g., Raytheon, Brimar), also a SED 5UG and a Sovtek 5AR4, and in the end, the potato masher won out. It just sounds right with these amps.

Take it easy.

Rgds

-orcker-

[Tobes]

All in all these Tungsol 6SU7GTY are really special tubes, but in the end, you still have to try them to see if they work well for you in your system?

Yes, since every circuit/system is different, preferences will vary.
Since the second 6SL7 tube in each channel of my phono preamp is used as a paralleled cathode follower, I might try to find just a pair of 6SU7GTY's for the phono gain/RIAA stages.
Finding a matched pair 6SU7GTY tubes, at reasonable cost, might take some digging though.

Thanks for your thoughts.