146 replies to this topic

[wis97non]

Kdoot,

How do you assess the write up for the Mapleshade?

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prod...=USBADAPTER-CL

[kdoot]

How do you assess the write up for the Mapleshade?

It's a HiFace in a wooden box.

[alcarp]

I have compared the optical against the USB from the 2011 Mac Mini to the Audio-gd NFB2 and to my ears (and a few others) the optical wins each time.
Has anyone tried this comparison with a DI or Audiophilleo in the USB chain?
How does it compare?
Is there anyone in Adelaide (or elsewhere) who would like to bring along or loan a DI or Audiophilleo so I can compare for myself?


Greg

USB with an AP2 in the chain is vastly better than optical on my system - no match !!!

[Kamikaze]

Thanks everyone for their input.
I may ask kdoot to show me his audiophelio and decide after that.

[seaninbrisbane]

Let me know how you get on, kamikaze. I'm in the same boat as you - probably buying a Metrum Octave, but wondering whether it's worth upgrading the DI.

[LuzArt]

Let me know how you get on, kamikaze. I'm in the same boat as you - probably buying a Metrum Octave, but wondering whether it's worth upgrading the DI.

Sounds like some of the Brisbane folk need a DAC/USB converter comparo session.

[kajak12]

Sounds like some of the Brisbane folk need a DAC/USB converter comparo session.

Answer is bhobba

[Kamikaze]

Let me know how you get on, kamikaze. I'm in the same boat as you - probably buying a Metrum Octave, but wondering whether it's worth upgrading the DI.

Definitely. Considering it's your DI I'm comparing, it's the least I can do

[a.dent]

I have compared the optical against the USB from the 2011 Mac Mini to the Audio-gd NFB2 and to my ears (and a few others) the optical wins each time.
Has anyone tried this comparison with a DI or Audiophilleo in the USB chain?
How does it compare?
Is there anyone in Adelaide (or elsewhere) who would like to bring along or loan a DI or Audiophilleo so I can compare for myself?

Greg

On my system the optical from my 2011 Mac Mini is not even close to the USB input on the EE Minimax Plus. It seems to me that the DI or Audiophilleo would be even better.

[Kamikaze]

I've got a Stello U3, MF V-link II and Audio gd DI in my possession over the weekend (since thursday night as well).
I have a really busy weekend, but I'll try and get some listen in and let you all know of the findings.

[pete_mac]

Excellent... I look forward to your thoughts!

Also, if you get the chance, try mucking around with the jumpers on the DI to enable upsampling and whatnot and see what you think (although, best upsampling results are achieved with the upgrade audio-gd clock or a Tentlabs clock).

[kajak12]

Excellent... I look forward to your thoughts!

Also, if you get the chance, try mucking around with the jumpers on the DI to enable upsampling and whatnot and see what you think (although, best upsampling results are achieved with the upgrade audio-gd clock or a Tentlabs clock).

Try powering the clock crystal with a separate power supply eg: lm317 reg with battery i can send you info how to do it its easy you can also try other crystals for a experiment.

[pete_mac]

Try powering the clock crystal with a separate power supply eg: lm317 reg with battery i can send you info how to do it its easy you can also try other crystals for a experiment.

Yeah, I might start tinkering with the clock and power supply stuff with the audio-gd DI once I get the next round of amp tweaks out of the way during the coming month.

[kajak12]

Yeah, I might start tinkering with the clock and power supply stuff with the audio-gd DI once I get the next round of amp tweaks out of the way during the coming month.

Here you go have fun

Attached Files

•  clock diagram.jpg   13.02K   54 downloads

[pete_mac]

Ta Mario. Can you post a bigger picture please... that one is tiny

[kajak12]

Ta Mario. Can you post a bigger picture please... that one is tiny

You have pm with link to bigger picture

[Kamikaze]

As mentioned above, I just had in my posession an Audio GD DI, a Musical Fidelity V-Link II and a Stello U3 USB to SPDIF devices.
I connected these 3 to my music server PC, to Metrum Octave (both generic USB and 75Ohm Coax cables) to a Marantz integrated PM7003, to a set of monitor audio RX6.
I played various flac, 44.1kHz and 96kHz materials and MP3 in 320kbps using Foobar 2000 in WASAPI output mode.

These are my first impression on each of the units and how they performed with Metrum:-

Audio GD DI: Coming from directly connecting the DAC from the PC's SPDIF out, this thing blew my mind as to how much more I could squeeze out of the DAC.
The detail became instantaneously clearer, the sound stage brought out to the front, bass became deeper and more distinct. The difference between 320kbps MP3 and flac became very obvious. I could tell it was a bit rough around the edges though. When things like a 14 piece jazz funk were playing, with a huge variation of sound and quickly, it did get quite muddled up.
Both upsampling and non upsampling tried out. (Was powered by USB. No other option tried.)

Musical Fidelity V-Link II: Plugged this is straight after the DI. The detail was obviously improved, along with a perception of depth in soundstage. Much more controlled overall presentation and tighter bass, and more detailed. I was immediately impressed by the cleanliness over the DI. It also had a very nice well rounded sound that was suitable to pretty much any genre of music. This is great for me, as I listen to a wide range of things from metal to folk to punk to funk to break beats, techno and trance to jazz and sometimes some classical…

Stello U3: Plugged it in straight after the V-link. The detail was obviously improved. It also seemed to excite the songs, like inject a bit of energy into it or something. Also, the micro control in the details absolutely amazed me... but it made it sound clinical to some extent... It was almost as though it's been polished so much that it has worn away the personality... Case and point, some Japanese punk, that usually brings emotion to well up inside my chest, was a little lacking in impact... was a bit bizarre, as all I got when I listened was me paying a lot of attention to the guitar riffs and drum progressions...

After that, I have gone back and forth between the units, having solid listens to each units and chopping and changing.
Overall, I've probably had a listen to each of the unit for 4 or 5 hours each (over the last few days), tried to give each one at least 2 hours of straight listen.

My conclusion: (disclaimer, this is my opinion after my listening experience. You may or may not agree with my findings)
After some back and forth, I have noticed the Stello was the clear winner for detail, control and dynamics... but given the $499 price tag, is it worth the extra $300 on the V-link?
The V-link was a very capable performer, with a full, healthy sound, not as detailed as the Stello, but still enough detail to make me happy.
I was initially happy with the DI (which I had been listening to for the last 3 weeks), but after listening to the other two, it clearly fell out of favour with me... unfortunately, it just didn't keep up.
I'm not rolling in cash, so I think I will go with the V-link II. Although I'd still like to try out the AP2, I just can not justify spending $600 on it...

Edited by Kamikaze, 13 February 2012 - 08:19 PM.
Left out the player info

[pete_mac]

Great post! Thanks for your thoughts.

Was the DI used on the stock-standard settings, or did you try upsampling too (if so, with or without an upgraded clock)?

[John H. Darko]

Agreed - that IS a great post Kamikaze. Thank you.

[markm1111]

i use this
http://coemaudio.com...uter-Audio/287/
it does what i pay it to do

I have one of these at home that I bought with the intention of running hires files to my Dac. I ended up changing from a Squeezebox Classic to a Transporter so this became redundant. It has never been used. If anyone wants to buy it, shoot me PM and we can work out a price. I recall there was a very long thread on Headfi extolling the virtues of this little converter

[bhobba]

The V-link was a very capable performer, with a full, healthy sound, not as detailed as the Stello, but still enough detail to make me happy. I was initially happy with the DI (which I had been listening to for the last 3 weeks), but after listening to the other two, it clearly fell out of favour with me... unfortunately, it just didn't keep up. I'm not rolling in cash, so I think I will go with the V-link II. Although I'd still like to try out the AP2, I just can not justify spending $600 on it...

That's my conclusion as well when I was fortunate enough to hear the V-Link. As I mentioned before you are more than welcome to come on over and hear mt Off-Ramp.

Thanks
Bill

[Kamikaze]

Hi all, thanks for your encouragement.

pete_mac, I tried both upsampling and non-upsampling. It did make a difference in most things, but I don't know if it was always positive. I don't know if it's an upgraded clock, but that is a better question to ask seaninbrisbane, as it is his unit I have borrowed.

Bill, thanks for your generous offer. I will one day arrange with you for a visit. It's been a bit difficult as my family life has been incredibly demanding of late... It will be really good to finally meet one of the people who has a lot of experience in DACs.

Cheers.

[tisb0b]

Is it generally accepted that the MK3 JKSPDIF is better than the Audiophilleo 2? Because I have been considering an Audiophilleo 2 but then the jkenny solution also looks very interesting.

[Kamikaze]

Is it generally accepted that the MK3 JKSPDIF is better than the Audiophilleo 2?

I think there is very little difference between those two (from what I can tell from reading). It's going to come down to synergy, I think. Some DAC will suit one better than the other, or sometimes, how one makes the DAC sound may be better suited for the amp and speakers.

[wis97non]

It's a HiFace in a wooden box.

And what do you think of the HiFace?

Serious question. Please compare to the Stello, Audiphelio, Audio GD etc...

[danq]

Another USB converter (and also DAC) is the Hegel HD2. I have it here, plugged into my macbookpro. Since I don;t have anything to compare it to, there is not much I can say. Has anybody else used it?

[kdoot]

And what do you think of the HiFace?

Serious question. Please compare to the Stello, Audiphelio, Audio GD etc...

I don't think I've heard an electrically-unmodified HiFace, but I believe its measurements aren't great and by many accounts I've read it's not in the same league as the Audiophilleo. However, the HiFace is easily modded - such as John Kenny's work and the embedded version that lives in a PDX - and the results of that can be really excellent. No question: the internal modified HiFace in a PDX, with battery power and direct I2S connection to the DF1704/PCM1704 is significantly better than the Audiophilleo into a Wolfson 8805 SPDIF receiver in the same DAC.

Reports generally put Audiophilleo and John Kenny external modified HiFace in a similar sonic league for SPDIF connections. John Darko finds the AP a bit edgy and seems to lean towards the JK for sound quality and overall value. I haven't done that audio comparison myself but I award points to the AP for other factors including driverless functionality and the ability to skip the coax cable and plug it straight into the back of many DACs.

Both of those are sonically superior to the Audio GD which in turn I rate ahead of the Stello and the now obsolete V-Link. (Haven't heard the new V-Link 192.)

That what you're after?

[John H. Darko]

I don't think I've heard an electrically-unmodified HiFace, but I believe its measurements aren't great and by many accounts I've read it's not in the same league as the Audiophilleo. However, the HiFace is easily modded - such as John Kenny's work and the embedded version that lives in a PDX - and the results of that can be really excellent. No question: the internal modified HiFace in a PDX, with battery power and direct I2S connection to the DF1704/PCM1704 is significantly better than the Audiophilleo into a Wolfson 8805 SPDIF receiver in the same DAC.

Reports generally put Audiophilleo and John Kenny external modified HiFace in a similar sonic league for SPDIF connections. John Darko finds the AP a bit edgy and seems to lean towards the JK for sound quality and overall value. I haven't done that audio comparison myself but I award points to the AP for other factors including driverless functionality and the ability to skip the coax cable and plug it straight into the back of many DACs.

Both of those are sonically superior to the Audio GD which in turn I rate ahead of the Stello and the now obsolete V-Link. (Haven't heard the new V-Link 192.)

That what you're after?

True.

I find the AP edgier with some DACs. Like you kdoot, I also find its driverless plug n play a real boon (Linux, iOS). Points for no coaxial cable too.

The DI doesn't quite twirl in the same circles as the AP or JK but it IS still worth the money in my book. My book likely reads differently to most.

The MF.....the less said the better. I mean it's OK n all. Ditto stock Hiface. Neither did much for me. I've not heard the Stello.

I wrote about this stuff at reasonable length earlier this week.

Edited by johnnydarko, 06 March 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[Kamikaze]

I have heard from some Japanese friends that Rasteme Rudd 14 is a very good unit for about $500 as well... I have no idea how it competes against other $500ish units. There's Rudd 14 and Rudd 24, same price, same sort of stuff... one has balanced output. I think.

[jkeny]

Guys, whatever USB/SPDIF device you choose, I urge you to try a direct USB connection rather than any USB cable (including expensive ones). This has been tested by enough people now that I feel secure in saying that it is a significant step up in sonics fo rmy devices & I've no reason to believe the same won't apply to other USB devices.

John_Darko - I urge you to try this & report your results when you get a chance! here's what one guy posted elsewhere:

WoW!! Unbelievable!! John, you are absolutely right. About as big a step forward in SQ as the introduction of Jplay hibernation mode in my system. Crystal clear sound, huge soundstage, lots of air and real strong, tight bass. Also it took away most of an annoying tendency to sibilance in my system. I am baffled and completely hooked : now I have to solve the puzzle on how to keep this configuration AND get the units back somewhere in my Hifi furniture.

I've suggested this elsewhere on this forum but here's some details:

So here's what I suggested for my devices - you will get the idea & be able to extrapolate to your selected USB device
- a USB B male to USB A male adapter. You will find them here

You will also need a USB A male to A female adapter to do two things:
- give you extra clearance between PC/laptop & device for the plugging in of other cables
- orient the device the correct way up

You may prefer to get swivel type USB adpaters but these have not yet been tested:
Ones to consider:
http://www.amazon.co...30;..y_ce_img_b
http://www.amazon.co...30;..B004T0RDF2
http://www.amazon.co...30;..pd_cp_ce_1

Edited by jkeny, 07 March 2012 - 06:54 AM.

[John H. Darko]

So here's what I suggested for my devices - you will get the idea & be able to extrapolate to your selected USB device
- a USB B male to USB A male adapter.

...aaaaaaaaaand purchased!

[lebowski]

same here. My initial test with direct connection was positive.

JD be careful with listening to hi-res music, apparently it is dangerous. But OK if you are wearing crash helmet

Edited by Lebowski, 07 March 2012 - 06:18 PM.
add comment

[jkeny]

same here. My initial test with direct connection was positive.

JD be careful with listening to hi-res music, apparently it is dangerous. But OK if you are wearing crash helmet

Any more detail - this sounds like a "maybe was better" rather than a "yes, definitely better sound" - is that the case?

Cool JD, look forward to your impressions!

Edited by jkeny, 07 March 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[wis97non]

Yes,

Thanks a lot for the summary, Kdoot. Much appreciated.

[lebowski]

Any more detail - this sounds like a "maybe was better" rather than a "yes, definitely better sound" - is that the case?

Cool JD, look forward to your impressions!

was better on the brief listening I did. I reserve my judgement until I have listened to more music with the direct connection.

[Peter_T]

I am the one John Kenny quoted about my experience with the direct USB connection. The last couple of days I could borrow a Locust Nucleus USB cable (1500 US$) to compare with my direct connection, see my post in the Jplay-forum. Conclusion : the Nucleus cable beats the direct connection. So where does a direct connection slot in quality or price wise? I still don't know. That may come from other cable <> direct connection comparisons. I am very curious about your experiences!

[jkeny]

Hi Peter - I hope you didn't mind me quoting you anonymously Apologies if you did.
Price-wise it's a no-brainer Locus Nucleus $1,500 Vs Direct USB (DUC) $10. If there is 15 times improvement between DUC & Nucleus then it's a toss-up, otherwise ......

What interests me more is what/how can a DUC be improved to get the last 10% improvement out of it or more generally, what are the important specs for a good USB cable?? This was the reason I started to investigate - I was tired of the pot-luck with USB cable purchasing. SPDIF cables are far better understood but still not quiet nailed down. So to me it made more sense to go with a direct USB connection & long SPDIF cable rather than a USB cable & direct SPDIF connection.

Edited by jkeny, 09 March 2012 - 02:46 AM.

[Cyber_Murphy]

What interests me more is what/how can a DUC be improved to get the last 10% improvement out of it or more generally, what are the important specs for a good USB cable??

Hi John,

I built my own USB cable to interface my 'music PC' to my 'JK MK3 Hiface'. This gave me the ability to have it only 10cm long, but more importantly, to leave out the +5v wire. This means that my USB cable no longer carries the "dirty" and "noisy" supply rail from the PC.. This used to be considered the most important factor with USB interfaces, the dirty usb power..

But now, there is suggestion that we use these direct connection adapters instead, which I imagine carry the usb power too..??

Ta
CM

[jkeny]

Hi John,

I built my own USB cable to interface my 'music PC' to my 'JK MK3 Hiface'. This gave me the ability to have it only 10cm long, but more importantly, to leave out the +5v wire. This means that my USB cable no longer carries the "dirty" and "noisy" supply rail from the PC.. This used to be considered the most important factor with USB interfaces, the dirty usb power..

But now, there is suggestion that we use these direct connection adapters instead, which I imagine carry the usb power too..??

Ta
CM

CM, none of my devices use the USB power i.e there is no current flow in this Vbus wire so it matters not whether the USB cable has a VBus wire or not, it has no effect on the signal wires! So the direct connection is immune to the Vbus influence when using any device that is self-powered & doesn't use Vbus

[Cyber_Murphy]

CM, none of my devices use the USB power i.e there is no current flow in this Vbus wire so it matters not whether the USB cable has a VBus wire or not, it has no effect on the signal wires! So the direct connection is immune to the Vbus influence when using any device that is self-powered & doesn't use Vbus

Thanks John.. Yes, I knew your devices do not use usb power.. But worth checking anyway... The discussion was often about having the +5v wire present alongside signal wires,, even though a device wasnt actually using the usb power..

I suppose if one was concerned with direct connection, and was using a dedicated music PC, they could unsolder the USB port from the motherboard and literally intergrate their device as part of the motherboard :-)

Ta
CM

[jkeny]

Thanks John.. Yes, I knew your devices do not use usb power.. But worth checking anyway... The discussion was often about having the +5v wire present alongside signal wires,, even though a device wasnt actually using the usb power..

I don't see how the +5V wire could influence the signal wires if it's carrying no current & therefore no radiated magnetic field?

I suppose if one was concerned with direct connection, and was using a dedicated music PC, they could unsolder the USB port from the motherboard and literally intergrate their device as part of the motherboard :-)

Haha, you jest, I'm sure?

[Cyber_Murphy]

Haha, you jest, I'm sure?

A little,, but not completely.. How close do you want to get with direct connection?? Straight off the chipset perhaps? (i think its the chipset that provides the usb interface?)

CM

[jkeny]

A little,, but not completely.. How close do you want to get with direct connection?? Straight off the chipset perhaps? (i think its the chipset that provides the usb interface?)

CM

It may not be the shortness of the connection that is the advantage of the direct connection

[Cyber_Murphy]

It may not be the shortness of the connection that is the advantage of the direct connection

What else could it be then

CM

[Kamikaze]

I can understand why CM is asking. I'd like to know too.
If it is not the shortness, what would be the advantage the "direct connection" has over a lot of other more carefully constructed cables?
Number of joints between conductors?