25 replies to this topic

[jrisles]

I stumbled across this device only today ... hard to keep up i know ...

http://smyth-research.com/

Anyone heard of it .. or better still heard it??

Not much on this forum about it .. haven't yet checked headfi.org ... but be keen to hear of other people's experiences ..

cheers Jeff

EDIT: i'd be keen to know of any other headphone "device" that claims to do similar things ...

[Drizt]

Would love to test it out.

[Marine]

I have one, and it is brilliant, Duckman on this forum has one too. I believe Doggie Howser may have one also plus a few other SNAers.

It is quite uncanny how it can capture the sound of a system including the acoustics of the room, and accurate placement and distance of speakers.

Having young kids this is a godsend, and I use mine almost every night for watching tv, movies and playing video games.

Currently I have only capture my own system, but hope to capture some better systems of some other SNAers when I have more time.

There are a couple of threads on headfi (which is where I first heard of it) only one of which is active.

I believe there is a a Beyer system that applies a generic head related transfer function, but this is the only device that captures your HRTF and also a headphone eq of you wearing whichever headphones you choose to use the system with.

Cost of admission is high, but it is well worth the money IMO. I only wish they had been available when I lived in my flat in London.

[DoggieHowser]

Hi Jeff

I am trying to get mine upgraded to the new HDMI model. Once I get it I'll bring it over

I used the 2 speaker calibration mode so in effect it's created a pseudo 7.1 version of my floorstanders!

Pretty damn impressive.

I've tried using it in bed and I'll say this your brain messes with you. You just can't "picture" the speakers up in your ceilings. I think sometimes we have visual cues to tell us where the speakers are.

[Whatmore]

Are they really suggesting that they are able to "can" the sound of any system?
Surely that's a sensational claim

[Marine]

It depends on the quality of your headphone set-up to a degree, but yes it does just that.

[Whatmore]

So when you said "the cost of admission is high" you should have said "this is the biggest screaming bargain in the history of Hi-Fi"

[Marine]

Well I actually think so yes! But you are looking at around 5K plus if you want really good headphones, DAC, amp and the processor. Although the Stax that come with the Realiser are supposed to work well, but as I already had Grado RS1's and AKG k1000s I didn't get those, to save some GST and import duty.

Check out the thread on head-fi.org some people have captured some seriously high end systems with great results. Lots of owners have captured the B&W 800D multichannel set-up at AIX recordings in LA.

[DoggieHowser]

Are they really suggesting that they are able to "can" the sound of any system?
Surely that's a sensational claim

Kal reviewed it last year in Stereophile. And he did say he manage to capture his two setups quite well. Save for the tactile bass section. Guess you can use a Crowson transducer for that.

[Whatmore]

What is a crowson transducer?

[DoggieHowser]

http://crowsontech.c...topDefault.aspx



Have a pair of the older ones but haven't gotten around to installing it in my current setup yet

[jrisles]

Be great if you could save profiles (maybe you can?). So if you wanted to do an A/B comparison of main rigs you could capture the sound of one high end rig. Save this profile. Then capture the sound of another high rig and save that profile and so on and conduct an A/B sound system comparison in your own home.

[Drizt]

Be great if you could save profiles (maybe you can?). So if you wanted to do an A/B comparison of main rigs you could capture the sound of one high end rig. Save this profile. Then capture the sound of another high rig and save that profile and so on and conduct an A/B sound system comparison in your own home.

That would be pretty awesome.

[Marine]

Be great if you could save profiles (maybe you can?). So if you wanted to do an A/B comparison of main rigs you could capture the sound of one high end rig. Save this profile. Then capture the sound of another high rig and save that profile and so on and conduct an A/B sound system comparison in your own home.

There are 64 memory slots in the processor for HRTF of systems and another 64 slots for headphone eqs. There is a fat16 SD slot so that can take a 2gb SD card, the files can also be backed up from the SD card. So basically the number of systems you can capture is unlimited. There are four preset slots where you load an HRTF and a Headphone eq, so you can swap between four setups instantly via remote control. With the latest firmware you can also play two different presets at once so two people can listen e.g. one out of the digital out to a DAC and another out of the RCA's or headphone socket.

[Whatmore]

What is the process for capturing a system ?

[DoggieHowser]

Smyth supplies a set of mics that you plug into your ears. This basically captures everything thats reflected by your ear lobes and into the ear canal.

For the older version, you plug the Smyth's 7.1
a. between the AVR and the power amps or
b. between a BDP's analog multichannel out and the AVR's multichannel inputs.

The Smyth has a wizard that runs a series of test tones through each speaker and the system measures what you hear in each ear.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many speakers you have or where they are because when they reach your ears, it's just two points. That's how Smyth works.

A more complex measurement system uses two or one speaker to "emulate" all 7 speakers. This requires you to change where you sit relative to the speaker eg you sit to the left of your right speaker, in front of the center and face the opposite direction for measuring the surround speakers etc.

This is the speaker measurement.

The second set of measurement records the headphones you are using and allows it to map the multiple speakers to the headphones.

Because these are two different sets of measurements you can mix and match them later on. Ie you can capture multiple headphone profiles in a separate room so you can upgrade the headphones later on without needing to recalibrate the speaker settings.

[Drizt]

Sounds like a brilliant system.

[Whatmore]

I don't know why there isn't more of a fuss made about this system. For the amount that you'd easily spend on an entry level system you get something that can emulate the best systems in the world.
I guess the only hitch is persuading someone whose spent mega bucks on their system to allow you to 'copy' it.

[DoggieHowser]

Make friends with your local hifi shop

I managed to make a copy of a pair of Dynaudio Evidence Temptation at the showroom

I always find it funny after the calibration process and you turn off the speakers without the listener realising it and it's only when they take the headphones off that they realise it's the headphones they are listening to.

There are a few niggling issues:

One is that you take the entire system: room acoustics and all. So I actually found the reverb a bit high, even in the showroom.
Tuning the reverb down reduced the "illusion" of the speakers in front of you.

The other issue is the ability for the headphones to deliver low frequency information. Though I was always pretty damn amazed what the Hifiman HE6 could deliver. Add the Crowson and you should be very close to mirroring the full thing.

[Whatmore]

Well maybe the local hifi shop could have a new sales model.
They set up a model room with gear that most people could never afford and they set up a room with about 5k worth of gear.
When the potential customer compares the two, they will be completely dissatisfied with the cheaper room and despairing that they will never be able to afford the gear in the high-end room....

Salesman: "you can have the sound of the high-end room for the cost of the budget room"
Customer: "yeah right..."
Salesman: "just pop these headphones on"
etc
etc

[Drizt]

I don't know why there isn't more of a fuss made about this system. For the amount that you'd easily spend on an entry level system you get something that can emulate the best systems in the world.
I guess the only hitch is persuading someone whose spent mega bucks on their system to allow you to 'copy' it.

Your classic audiophile is fundamentally against EQ. That what this system is all about. You shouldn't be too surprised that classic audiophiles aren't lining up for this device.

[DoggieHowser]

I don't know how much processing power is in there, but I always thought that Smyth might be able to get some traction if they licensed their tech to home theatre CE manufacturers like Onkyo or Denon.

After all, most guys setting up an AVR are already used to doing calibrations for Audyssey. This is a tad more complex but I expect it could be easily surmountable. Plus it can use a nice GUI wizard which the Smyth doesn't today.

[jrisles]

I don't know why there isn't more of a fuss made about this system. For the amount that you'd easily spend on an entry level system you get something that can emulate the best systems in the world.
I guess the only hitch is persuading someone whose spent mega bucks on their system to allow you to 'copy' it.

I'd be happy to "record" my system for other Realiser users to use - and even then my system is probably not "real" high end compared to alot of others around. You can see this is what will happen. System profiles will start to appear online for Realiser users to download. I mean the concept is just limitless. Imagine being able to listen to a system that cost in the vicinity of $500,000.00 ...

Make friends with your local hifi shop

I managed to make a copy of a pair of Dynaudio Evidence Temptation at the showroom

I always find it funny after the calibration process and you turn off the speakers without the listener realising it and it's only when they take the headphones off that they realise it's the headphones they are listening to.

There are a few niggling issues:

One is that you take the entire system: room acoustics and all. So I actually found the reverb a bit high, even in the showroom.

That is a pretty great endorsement of how good these things are and how lifelike they must be. Can't wait for our next meet DH ... :-)

Well maybe the local hifi shop could have a new sales model.
They set up a model room with gear that most people could never afford and they set up a room with about 5k worth of gear.
When the potential customer compares the two, they will be completely dissatisfied with the cheaper room and despairing that they will never be able to afford the gear in the high-end room....

Salesman: "you can have the sound of the high-end room for the cost of the budget room"
Customer: "yeah right..."
Salesman: "just pop these headphones on"
etc
etc

But better still imagine if you have a client that has a budget of $5K. So you develop a few "$5K Profiles" for them to listen too on the Realiser. Put them in a dark room with a pair of headphones hooked up to the Realiser system and they toggle through all of the $5K profiles ... back and forth ... etc until they settle on a sound they really love .. then bingo ... you have a potential sale. You could do this for each client according to their profile. The work for the sales team would be to build up a collection of profiles ... but worth it in the end.

[DoggieHowser]

Because the HRTFs are unique to the individuals. It's a combination of how our earlobes are shaped. So it's not really worthwhile to upload your measurements.

Using someone else's HRTF will give some semblance of surround sound but it's not the same as recording your own.

[ians]

I know that this is the standard reply but has anyone who doesn't presently own the Realiser checked it out? There is often a perception that something must sound perfect to be good - but what about just very good? I think jrisles makes an excellent point in his final paragraph. For example the current most advanced guitar processor, Afe-Fx II, is able to simulate/emulate brand name amps (ss & tube), speaker cabinets, effects, etc via sophisticated dual DSP processors. Through a vibrant user community facilitated by the company (Fractal Audio Systems), users can upload their take on sounds equivalent to equipment costing much more. We all hear things differently and yet FAS approach seems to work for their satisfied customers.

[Whatmore]

I have not checked it out and would love to.
And I agree with you about the need for it to be perfect.... if I you could spend $5k to get a sound that is "only" 90% as good as a $100k system, surely you'd have to be happy with that