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#31 metaphacts

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:20 AM

...What I meant was that the Aida's, with their rear-firing drivers, etc are a change of direction, along with a cabinet that does not have its origins rooted in either the cremonan lute-making or stradivari traditions. My understanding of the design brief behind the luito's was to create a SF speaker with more modern components and construction techniques, in part to bring the price down as the hand-made solid timber staving technique utilised on the Cremona and Homage series' could not be brought down to a lower price point.

And the playback of the Grand Piano, well - I'm probably a bit young to put that in context against their older stuff, but my old boss has the Piano's and dynamically the Luito's leave those for dead IMHO :P


Yikes! Lots of Sonus faber misinformation here.

1) The rear firing Sound Field Shaper was first seen on The Sonus faber nee Fenice. It is adjustable to room conditions and may be turned completely off if one desires.

2) Basic cabinet making techniques used to make Aida resemble much of what is done in previous Homage speakers. The shape is different but the construction more sophisticated even before the addition of the mass dampers and sprung suspension.

3) Your understanding of both Liuto and previous construction is inorrect. Liuto wood and Liuto Monitor wood are the only Sonus faber loudspeakers still made with solid wood staves, incorporating roughly 21 solid verticals per side. On the other hand, Guarneri Homage was the only Homage product ever made of all solid staves. All other Homage and Cremona series side panels are made up of multiple layers of hardwood veneers laid up in a starburst pattern with proprietary adhesives to create a non-resonant constrained mode panel.

4) There have been 3 Grand Pianos. The original Grand Piano is by far the least dynamic of the three. Grand Piano Home and Grand Piano Domus were far more dynamic and had no trouble rocking. Domus could be a bit difficult to drive and position but once you got that right it could really go. That said, none of those speakers can begin to match the overall performance, including dynamics, of your Liutos.

As a point of disclosure, I have worked for Sonus faber's largest distributor since 1999.

#32 Lil Caesar

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:25 AM

Happy to sit corrected.... my post was based on recollections from a lot of articles I've read over the past year, no surprises that a few things bled together in a less than accurate fashion. Appreciate the detailed response :P

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#33 metaphacts

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:58 AM

:P

Happy to sit corrected.... my post was based on recollections from a lot of articles I've read over the past year, no surprises that a few things bled together in a less than accurate fashion. Appreciate the detailed response :)



Happens all the time. Really glad to hear you love your Liutos. :thumb:

#34 metaphacts

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:54 AM

http://www.stereo.ne...74&d=1327848619

Speaking of classic Sonus faber. In walnut, Aida looks like Guarneri homage's big sister.

#35 valvelover

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:53 PM

Yikes! Lots of Sonus faber misinformation here.

1) The rear firing Sound Field Shaper was first seen on The Sonus faber nee Fenice. It is adjustable to room conditions and may be turned completely off if one desires.

2) Basic cabinet making techniques used to make Aida resemble much of what is done in previous Homage speakers. The shape is different but the construction more sophisticated even before the addition of the mass dampers and sprung suspension.

3) Your understanding of both Liuto and previous construction is inorrect. Liuto wood and Liuto Monitor wood are the only Sonus faber loudspeakers still made with solid wood staves, incorporating roughly 21 solid verticals per side. On the other hand, Guarneri Homage was the only Homage product ever made of all solid staves. All other Homage and Cremona series side panels are made up of multiple layers of hardwood veneers laid up in a starburst pattern with proprietary adhesives to create a non-resonant constrained mode panel.

4) There have been 3 Grand Pianos. The original Grand Piano is by far the least dynamic of the three. Grand Piano Home and Grand Piano Domus were far more dynamic and had no trouble rocking. Domus could be a bit difficult to drive and position but once you got that right it could really go. That said, none of those speakers can begin to match the overall performance, including dynamics, of your Liutos.

As a point of disclosure, I have worked for Sonus faber's largest distributor since 1999.


Actually, as far as I'm aware, point 3) is not totally correct. Some of the newer speakers have been made with slabs of Maple (all the new speakers use maple as far as I'm aware). It's cheaper than Walnut and easier to work.

I was not aware that Franco had left the company. Where did he go to? I believe his son in law owns/runs Yter.

Dave
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#36 metaphacts

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:57 AM

Actually, as far as I'm aware, point 3) is not totally correct. Some of the newer speakers have been made with slabs of Maple (all the new speakers use maple as far as I'm aware). It's cheaper than Walnut and easier to work.

I was not aware that Franco had left the company. Where did he go to? I believe his son in law owns/runs Yter.

Dave


Dave,

Guarneri Homage is the only Homage speaker ever whose enclosure was made entirely of solid wood staves, though technically the inlaid ebony is veneer.

The top piece and bottom pieces of all Homage since Guarneri are multiple pieces, so in a sense you are partially correct. There really is no way to do a proper veneer on the top and bottom pieces given their shape. It is actually the ease of making the right part that makes the solid the choice there. The sides panels however are not solid on post Guarneri Homage or Cremona Series Speakers and never have been.

As for difficulty, walnut and maple are six of one, half dozen of another. If solid walnut was so expensive and difficult, you would hardly expect to find it in the Liuto Tower Wood. Yet there it is.

All the new speakers of The Sonus faber Series (TSf, Aida, Guarneri Evolution, Amati Futura) use Okume Mahogany. The creation of panels is how I describe it in previous posts and quite frankly, far more difficult than cutting and gluing a bunch of solid blocks.

Posted Image

Lastly, Franco Serblin has been gone from Sonus Faber for about 4 years. He recently started another speaker company under his own name and is already producing 2 very fine loudspeakers, Accordo and Ktema.

Hope this helps

Bill

Edited by metaphacts, 13 February 2012 - 04:00 AM.
Fixing my iPhone mistakes.


#37 valvelover

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:50 PM

Dave,

Guarneri Homage is the only Homage speaker ever whose enclosure was made entirely of solid wood staves, though technically the inlaid ebony is veneer.

The top piece and bottom pieces of all Homage since Guarneri are multiple pieces, so in a sense you are partially correct. There really is no way to do a proper veneer on the top and bottom pieces given their shape. It is actually the ease of making the right part that makes the solid the choice there. The sides panels however are not solid on post Guarneri Homage or Cremona Series Speakers and never have been.

As for difficulty, walnut and maple are six of one, half dozen of another. If solid walnut was so expensive and difficult, you would hardly expect to find it in the Liuto Tower Wood. Yet there it is.

All the new speakers of The Sonus faber Series (TSf, Aida, Guarneri Evolution, Amati Futura) use Okume Mahogany. The creation of panels is how I describe it in previous posts and quite frankly, far more difficult than cutting and gluing a bunch of solid blocks.

Posted Image

Lastly, Franco Serblin has been gone from Sonus Faber for about 4 years. He recently started another speaker company under his own name and is already producing 2 very fine loudspeakers, Accordo and Ktema.

Hope this helps

Bill


Sorry I missed your reply Bill - interesting - different to what I'd heard/read. I'm quite happy to believe you :thumb: I'd love a tour of the SF factory - would be wonderful to see the wood working. I was unaware that Franco had even left SF until a few weeks back. I wonder if his departure is why SF is departing from its traditional sound in the past few models.

Dave
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#38 Willco

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:46 AM

Sorry I missed your reply Bill - interesting - different to what I'd heard/read. I'm quite happy to believe you :thumb: I'd love a tour of the SF factory - would be wonderful to see the wood working. I was unaware that Franco had even left SF until a few weeks back. I wonder if his departure is why SF is departing from its traditional sound in the past few models.

Dave


Hi V, I agree with your last comments--having heard both the Mementos/Palladios/Bi wire/single wire versions/ad hoc/etc/etc in their latest incarnations--none of these have given me the urge to change up--they've seem to have lost the panache and musical involvement of the

original Homage which is still the benchmark for Standmounts.

Willco

#39 valvelover

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:47 PM

Hi V, I agree with your last comments--having heard both the Mementos/Palladios/Bi wire/single wire versions/ad hoc/etc/etc in their latest incarnations--none of these have given me the urge to change up--they've seem to have lost the panache and musical involvement of the

original Homage which is still the benchmark for Standmounts.

Willco


That is what I've heard too. The new SF range are vastly different from their classic range. Pity.

Dave
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#40 metaphacts

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:48 AM

Hi V, I agree with your last comments--having heard both the Mementos/Palladios/Bi wire/single wire versions/ad hoc/etc/etc in their latest incarnations--none of these have given me the urge to change up--they've seem to have lost the panache and musical involvement of the

original Homage which is still the benchmark for Standmounts.

Willco



Certainly Guarneri Homage set the course of Sonus faber from 1993 forward.

#41 metaphacts

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:52 AM

That is what I've heard too. The new SF range are vastly different from their classic range. Pity.

Dave


Dave

Actually I'm not sure many of the people who find sport discussing the sound of Sonus faber are aware of which speakers were designed by whom.

Of course if you really want Franco's very latest thinking, simply seek out Ktema and Accordo.

Bill

#42 metaphacts

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:07 AM

Sorry I missed your reply Bill - interesting - different to what I'd heard/read. I'm quite happy to believe you :) I'd love a tour of the SF factory - would be wonderful to see the wood working. I was unaware that Franco had even left SF until a few weeks back. I wonder if his departure is why SF is departing from its traditional sound in the past few models.

Dave


Dave

Yes a tour would be wonderful. Until you do that, there are hundreds of photos available of the manufacture of Sonus speakers back to Guarneri. Hopefully these pictures speak more accurately than what you have heard/read.

As for departing from a particular sound, not sure where to go with that. Sonus sound has always varied within the range of designs. Where do you stand on the Electa Amator II vs the Electa Amator? Rather a shift there, imo, and that was almost a decade before Franco left.

Bill

#43 joz

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:06 AM

I suspect if you could afford the SFs you could probably have the boxster too


Do you mean these are hairdressers speakers?

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#44 Lil Caesar

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:34 AM

...if you're paying $120k for speakers, you're buying Aston Martin, ferrari, Lamborghini, etc, not an ordinary Porsche boxster...

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#45 valvelover

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:06 PM

Dave

Yes a tour would be wonderful. Until you do that, there are hundreds of photos available of the manufacture of Sonus speakers back to Guarneri. Hopefully these pictures speak more accurately than what you have heard/read.

As for departing from a particular sound, not sure where to go with that. Sonus sound has always varied within the range of designs. Where do you stand on the Electa Amator II vs the Electa Amator? Rather a shift there, imo, and that was almost a decade before Franco left.

Bill


I never got to hear the mark IIs, but by all accounts they were a bit brighter and rockier with slightly better bass performance. I have heard the Guarneri homages and they are truly wonderful speakers imho - easily better than my electa amators. I had the chance to buy a 2nd hand pair in December 2010 for the bargain price of 4.5k, but sadly, I was purchasing my Clearaudio table and couldn't afford both. If they were available now, I'd ****** them up to be honest. I've heard the extrema, and would classify it as a much beefier sounding speaker, but sadly, my amps would never do it justice.

Dave
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#46 Valavien.

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:49 AM

Reading about these speakers makes me want to listen some Sonus Faber gear

#47 metaphacts

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:09 AM

...if you're paying $120k for speakers, you're buying Aston Martin, ferrari, Lamborghini, etc, not an ordinary Porsche boxster...


I do know that one of the first buyers runs around in one of these:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41584[/ATTACH]

#48 metaphacts

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:18 AM

I never got to hear the mark IIs, but by all accounts they were a bit brighter and rockier with slightly better bass performance. I have heard the Guarneri homages and they are truly wonderful speakers imho - easily better than my electa amators. I had the chance to buy a 2nd hand pair in December 2010 for the bargain price of 4.5k, but sadly, I was purchasing my Clearaudio table and couldn't afford both. If they were available now, I'd ****** them up to be honest. I've heard the extrema, and would classify it as a much beefier sounding speaker, but sadly, my amps would never do it justice.

Dave


Dave,

Now you see my point. Many hard core Sonus guys had nothing but contempt for the EAII saying Franco had moved away from the Sonus faber they knew and loved. Replacing the large dome with the smaller one made no sense to them. Ironically, many of the people grousing about Sonus' direction today are complaining because Sonus has returned to large soft domes instead of using Franco's chosen ring radiators. Go figure.

You can never go wrong with Guarneri Homage. It is for me the most important speaker in Sonus history. It easily bests EA and EAII. The Extrema is not my cup of tea but for those who have what is necessary to drive it, it too is a classic.

Perhaps you'll be fortunate enough to find another pair of GH at that kind of price. :o

#49 metaphacts

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:22 AM

Reading about these speakers makes me want to listen some Sonus Faber gear


..........:o

#50 valvelover

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:11 AM

Dave,

Now you see my point. Many hard core Sonus guys had nothing but contempt for the EAII saying Franco had moved away from the Sonus faber they knew and loved. Replacing the large dome with the smaller one made no sense to them. Ironically, many of the people grousing about Sonus' direction today are complaining because Sonus has returned to large soft domes instead of using Franco's chosen ring radiators. Go figure.

You can never go wrong with Guarneri Homage. It is for me the most important speaker in Sonus history. It easily bests EA and EAII. The Extrema is not my cup of tea but for those who have what is necessary to drive it, it too is a classic.

Perhaps you'll be fortunate enough to find another pair of GH at that kind of price. ;)


I always saw your point re: the speaker sound quality change (I prefer the older traditional SF units than the newer units). When one considers a SF speaker, one does so for musicality, warmth, engrossing performance, and of course, their beautiful looks.

If I have the funds and another Guarneri Homage comes up for sale, I'll be all over it like a fat kid on a cupcake ;-)

Don't get me wrong, I love my Elector Amators, they have many of the same qualities as the Guarneri Homage units, but without some of the extra refinements imho. The only drawback of course is their sensitivity. I'd love to see SF make a horn speaker - that would be freakin' awesome!

Dave
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#51 Lil Caesar

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:08 PM

If anyone is interested in Melbourne, CAV are taking "appointments" for auditions on the Aida's now....

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#52 Sir Sanders Zingmore

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

We should organise an SNA group to have a listen

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#53 brumby

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:44 PM

As wonderful as they probably are, $120K spent on speakers is an obscene waste of money.

Just iMO, take it or leave it, I don't mind either way ;)


There is no such thing as an obscene waste of money - unless the money was come by using obscene methods.

The argument about what those obscene methods are is a whole other debate.
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#54 Juicester

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:41 AM

There is no such thing as an obscene waste of money - unless the money was come by using obscene methods.

The argument about what those obscene methods are is a whole other debate.


i dunno, ask Nigel or a few others round here if they think 120k on passive speakers is an obscene waste... :confused:

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#55 hedalfa

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:09 AM

I work with a billionaire and several millionairs, from my perspective, $120k on speakers is not as obscene as you may think.

I work with a billionaire and several millionairs, from my perspective, $120k on speakers is not as obscene as you may think.


I have always wondered what speakers well off musicians use? Some of them are not short of cash but do they have expensive speakers?.

Edited by hedalfa, 24 March 2012 - 07:09 AM.


#56 bigears

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

I saw these in the flesh last month at the Melbourne based SF distribution office Synergy AV. They are a very sexy speaker.

My first impression of they was "Wow, these are a seriously stunning speaker". I only had a quick listen, none the less they engaged me immediately. (the speakers had just come out of their wooden crates)

I will return and have another listen when they have a few more hours under their belt.


 

 


#57 GregWormald

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:54 PM

I have always wondered what speakers well off musicians use? Some of them are not short of cash but do they have expensive speakers?.


My experience with musicians is that they use their imagination and memory of sound and music a lot more than I do. Many do this so well they are happy with little tabletop systems. Some want the concert or practice room experience in their room and spend up big to reproduce it.

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