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#1 toeknee2

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:13 PM

Power conditioners?

Do many of you use one?

And if so what do they do (sound wise, I know what they claim to do)?

I ask because I'm in the market for a decent power board and some double up as a "power conditioner"
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#2 LogicprObe

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:56 PM

I don't use them and make my own power boards for my audio gear.
I use cheap crap ones for all my computer peripherals but my main rig plugs into a power outlet direct.
Most, if not all of those things will not protect your gear against a very close lightning strike................but your insurance will compensate you somewhat.
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#3 56oval

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:19 AM

Hi tk2
Nice avatar .

Why do you think you need a power conditioner . Or are you just after a high quality power board .

Have you measured how stable your power is ,do you get interference from other electrical appliance's in the house .

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#4 pchan

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:17 AM

Most cheap power conditioners have a series of varistors connected to gnd in case of lightning strikes, this will protect the first strike and the device disintergrates depending on how powerful the strike is. you can get conditioners that cost thousands and there are people including SNA'ers would confirmed that it makes a difference in SQ. Unless you're in PNG or in a country that has an issue with power generation, OK, I understand, but in a major Australian city where the quality of the power of the grid, especially in melbourne, is very good. Definitely get one that protects you for lightning strikes or spikes but thats it!!
Conditioners will not isolate you from electrical noise generated from other houshold appliances, once the interference is genearated it is hard to filter out even with the most expensive conditioner. Expensive silver power cables/fuses will not improve on the supply voltage and I doubt that it improves SQ, then again some will say otherwise.

#5 Dr Good Vibe

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:50 AM

56 you forgot to metion that 37Kg power thing that Lucas does!
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#6 Sir Triode

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:00 AM

Forget about using power conditioners, they actually make your equipment sound worse - they make the treble strident IME.

The only way to filter out power line noise effectively is to use a regenerator and the cheapest regenerator AFAIK is sold by Monachy Audio. You can get 2nd hand PS audio regenerators like the PS300/600 for under $1K.

I recently bought the PurePower 2000i and it did make a improvement to my system as opposed to the power conditioners and balanced power supply I have used previously.

The voltage from my power outlet is a steady 250V! The purepower unit regenerates and steps down to a steady 230V.

Edited by triode12, 22 November 2011 - 10:29 AM.


#7 LogicprObe

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:04 AM

Most cheap power conditioners have a series of varistors connected to gnd in case of lightning strikes, this will protect the first strike and the device disintergrates depending on how powerful the strike is. you can get conditioners that cost thousands and there are people including SNA'ers would confirmed that it makes a difference in SQ. Unless you're in PNG or in a country that has an issue with power generation, OK, I understand, but in a major Australian city where the quality of the power of the grid, especially in melbourne, is very good. Definitely get one that protects you for lightning strikes or spikes but thats it!!
.


Nothing will stop a direct lightning strike or even a very close one.
The static discharge is so huge that it just takes what it wants...........like the grim reaper.
I have experience of this when lightning hit a tree at the front of my house, splitting it in half.
The nearest room of my house was about 10 metres away.
There was a computer in there that was off..........turned off at the wall in fact.
The PSU and motherboard were fried by the static field, It also induced into the ethernet and took out a data switch 30 metres away but that was it.
It wasn't really enough to claim on insurance as I had it all up and running again for about $100.
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#8 DoggieHowser

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:31 AM

I too am a believer of PurePower. I use two 1050s to separate digital and analog components. I wish I could have had separate lines in the house but we got a newly built house and it's still under warranty so I don't want to muck about.

But I recently had a chance to listen to Jim Weil's latest Sound Application and it does sound amazing. I don't know what he does but IMHO it does outperform the PurePower. I'll need to bring one home for a shootout. Jim doesn't usually build for home markets. His units are usually built for commercial studios. Mofi is one of his customers.

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#9 56oval

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:57 AM

56 you forgot to metion that 37Kg power thing that Lucas does!

To early to recommend any product ,what we need to find out what the problem is first then take it from there .

CHeers
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#10 88pro

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:08 AM

I was thinking about this unit http://sgraudio.com....ace/tb_seq.html

Anyone using it? Is it worth spending that money?

(Currently all my components are just hooked into single extender)
Limited resources(money) means more research! (Corollary might not be true)
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#11 aechmea

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:29 AM

find out what the problem is first


Well thats right.

In my case I live on the edge of town and at the extremity of the power lines. My voltage varied from ~213 to ~234 which I was later able to see on a Thor PS10. Ended up being a moot point because they more recently came along and put a big grey transformer?thingy on the pole outside, so now I get ~252 fairly steadily. Also 3 lightning strikes nearby, 2 of which took out phone line connected equipment (modems, ethernet switches ...) Telstra installed a lightning to earth box on the phone line for that. So in my case I have gone the Thor path purely for protection rather than SQ reasons.

Source: MSB Data IV, Denon DVD3930

CA: MacBookPro, AP1 with PP, Audirvana
Processor: DEQX HDP4
Amps: 2 x Sanders Magtech
Speakers: Magneplanar 20.7, 2 x Velodyne DD15 subs


#12 alan3016

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:35 AM

[quote name='88pro']I was thinking about this unit http://sgraudio.com....ace/tb_seq.html

Anyone using it?
Hi 88pro, I use a Thoroughbred power interphase. I am not sure it makes a huge difference to sound quality, but with active speakers it is great for the sequential start up and shut down. ie it turns on outlets in order, then shuts power off in reverse sequence.
Alan

#13 Krispy Audio

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:09 PM

If you're just after a surge protector, these guys have one for $26 if you see the link before midday tomorrow!

#14 nevillekapadia

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:51 PM

But I recently had a chance to listen to Jim Weil's latest Sound Application and it does sound amazing. I don't know what he does but IMHO it does outperform the PurePower. I'll need to bring one home for a shootout. Jim doesn't usually build for home markets. His units are usually built for commercial studios. Mofi is one of his customers.


Hi D.H.,
Sound Application does build conditioners for home audio too. I got a custom 12 outlet Reference 240V one made by Jim and Connie Weil. It is undoubtedly superlative in every aspect for its performance in audio and video. My advice is do not try it unless you are ready to purchase one. Jim knows how good his products are and that they keep improving with time.........hence they are dear. Also you can't use the US models here as they are voltage dependent.
Cheers.

#15 DoggieHowser

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

Jim's website hasn't been updated in ages :)

A friend of mine has 2 of his RLS240 (set up for UK/Aus voltage) at the moment. Jim mentioned a once off build of a RLS240X using components he normally reserves for his commercial models so my friend ended up ordering 2 of the new ones. He's been kind enough to offer to loan me one (on the condition that Jim has delivered the X units)

And yes, it is a superlative device.

Every other conditioner I have tried diminishes the sound in some respect, but adds improvement in others but from what I can tell, there are no downsides to the SA :thumb:

I am trying to get the SA hooked up to the PurePower, if only because I keep getting power cuts out here in Queensland whenever there are thunderstorms.

#16 aad_ht

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 02:36 PM

If you're just after a surge protector, these guys have one for $26 if you see the link before midday tomorrow!


I bought one of these. They have a very decent feel to them for the money. Compared to the $18 "Home Theater" one i bought a retail store which had a very cheap feel to it. The power plugs would not sit in properly into the sockets.

This one above allows you to switch off individual devices to save on electricity/isolate the device.

Theater Setup Under Re-Construction :)


#17 nevillekapadia

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:34 PM

.......... Jim mentioned a once off build of a RLS240X using components he normally reserves for his commercial models............


I had a smile on my face when I read that, as I know unless he has made another one he is talking about the one I have. It did take Jim convincing to make a 12 outlet device as he normally makes only a 6 outlet 240V version.

I would recommend that you connect the PP into the SA.

Anything after the SA improves dramatically. I have even run a normal extension chord from the SA to my telly and the lift in performance is huge.

Soundstaging, depth, instrument seperation are noticeable like night and day. One major component I could not live without. BTW Jim's wife Connie is ex- Navy electrical engineer and my gut feel says she is the major force behind SA. Jim knows his stuff too.

Hope your friend does get his X units soon, so that you can try out the RLS.

#18 DoggieHowser

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:47 PM

I thought the PP generates cleaner AC than the mains so putting the SA afterwards might be better. Plus my PP are about 3m away from the wall socket.

Ps do you use an Australian plug at the wall to the SA?

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#19 Sir Triode

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:52 PM

Hi D.H.,
Sound Application does build conditioners for home audio too. I got a custom 12 outlet Reference 240V one made by Jim and Connie Weil. It is undoubtedly superlative in every aspect for its performance in audio and video. My advice is do not try it unless you are ready to purchase one. Jim knows how good his products are and that they keep improving with time.........hence they are dear. Also you can't use the US models here as they are voltage dependent.
Cheers.


I assume that they are active devices since they are voltage dependant?

#20 nevillekapadia

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:42 PM

I thought the PP generates cleaner AC than the mains so putting the SA afterwards might be better. Plus my PP are about 3m away from the wall socket.

Ps do you use an Australian plug at the wall to the SA?


DH- Jim will always tell you not to place anything in front of the SA. It will inhibit the current pull when required. After the SA is fine. His other reccomendations are not to use Wattgate terminated plugs in his SA especially the 20A IEC inlet. Mind you I use the Kimber Palladiums and they work fine on the outlets.

My cable runs straight from the fuse box outlet to the SA terminated with a Furutech 20A IEC.

#21 nevillekapadia

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:48 PM

I assume that they are active devices since they are voltage dependant?


Hi Triode12,

No they are passive devices, but the inductors used inside are voltage or current specific and hence Jim will always advice you that the US models will not do the job/work on 240V. It works the other way around. In fact that is how the X series was born. He was so amazed by the performance when he made my unit that triggered him to use the components in his local markets.

#22 toeknee2

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:51 PM

Thanks guys. I don't think I will bother with a power conditioner after reading all that. I just want a decent power board with surge protection that can take 10 cords. The $26 one only takes 8.
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#23 LogicprObe

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:56 PM

Make your own.
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#24 Sir Triode

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:33 AM

Hi Triode12,

No they are passive devices, but the inductors used inside are voltage or current specific and hence Jim will always advice you that the US models will not do the job/work on 240V. It works the other way around. In fact that is how the X series was born. He was so amazed by the performance when he made my unit that triggered him to use the components in his local markets.


Thanks Neville.
Interesting device but pricey for something passive...but having said that...so is the Bybee Steath conditioner at $6500USD.

#25 biologist

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:52 PM

Nothing will stop a direct lightning strike or even a very close one.
The static discharge is so huge that it just takes what it wants...........like the grim reaper.
I have experience of this when lightning hit a tree at the front of my house, splitting it in half.
The nearest room of my house was about 10 metres away.
There was a computer in there that was off..........turned off at the wall in fact.
The PSU and motherboard were fried by the static field, It also induced into the ethernet and took out a data switch 30 metres away but that was it.
It wasn't really enough to claim on insurance as I had it all up and running again for about $100.


A lightning strike is effectively a localised EMP, and yes, rather hard to defend oneself from at that range.

:)


#26 brodricj

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 03:15 PM

...You can get 2nd hand PS audio regenerators like the PS300/600 for under $1K....


The 300 and 600 are good but quite inefficient. Power Plant Premier superseded these models however, although more efficient than the 300/600, the 230V model was notoriously unreliable. The PPP is now discontinued, replaced by P5 and P10.

If you can find a b-stock PPP at $1k price point it's worth a look, the manufacturer is supporting them with 12 months warranty if you buy from an authorized dealer. If all of these options are out of your price range then the most affordable option for something quite decent is the PS Audio DUET. I just bought a demo example in the US for $210, and it's costing me $75 to ship it here. However you'll need to change the power cartridge in it for a 230V one.
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#27 DoggieHowser

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:37 PM

.

I had a smile on my face when I read that, as I know unless he has made another one he is talking about the one I have. It did take Jim convincing to make a 12 outlet device as he normally makes only a 6 outlet 240V version.

I would recommend that you connect the PP into the SA.

Anything after the SA improves dramatically. I have even run a normal extension chord from the SA to my telly and the lift in performance is huge.

Soundstaging, depth, instrument seperation are noticeable like night and day. One major component I could not live without. BTW Jim's wife Connie is ex- Navy electrical engineer and my gut feel says she is the major force behind SA. Jim knows his stuff too.

Hope your friend does get his X units soon, so that you can try out the RLS.


Yeah Jim doesn't like making the 12 outlet one. He prefers dedicated power lines for analog and digital and have 2 SAs. Probably end up costing the same too. My plan is to get 3 SA RLS240s from my friends who have upgraded to the RLS240X.

And I'd need to start looking at a good reliable local sparkie in my neighbourhood to draw the lines from the main circuit breaker to draw those lines in. Any recommendations for Brisbane/Manly area?

I heard the RLS240X should be completed soon so I managed to snag one to test out on my third system (where I spend time when I am away from home) and it's bloody amazing. I swear my Bel Canto DAC3.5 suddenly felt more resolving, sounding very close to the XDS1 in this system, just with the RLS+ASI power cords.

#28 olderas

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:43 AM

For me the jury is still out, have an API 216P Power Wedge (230V 50 Hz version of the 116), each low level output has it's own transformer, which I run in "balanced mode", and the amp outlets are purely filtered. Have a homemade distribution box (Oyaide sockets), and a DIY Hydra (http://www.10audio.c...conditioner.htm). Not sure that any make a difference, currently using the API Power Wedge, but at times I have prefered a plain distribution box. Time will tell in my current system, I kind of want to believe that the API sounds better, but the cynic inside needs to be convinced. I suppose having read the reviews and spent the cash I really want it to sound better. In previous systems I have found the API inhibiting. If it is so hard, perhaps a good distribution box is all that is needed.