97 replies to this topic

[whitenoise]

Wondering how many of you guys have pre-ordered this new apple product?

Sorry, i meant the 4S. sorry for the typo :\

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Why would anyone continue to support the blatant rip-offs associated with Apple products? The very same apps for the iPhone are typically available for Android 'phones for a fraction of the price.

I have vowed NEVER to buy an Apple product. So far, I see no compelling reasons to break that vow.

I suppose what consolidated the view was when a mate purchased a new Apple computer. He paid $4,000.00 for the thing. I scored his old computer (a very nice, last generation i5 PC). For $52.00 I stuck 8GB RAM in the thing. For another $140.00, I installed Win 7 Pro 64bit. My mate then proudly proclaimed how I was ripped off for the operating system, since he only paid $30.00 for his OS. I asked him how much his 16GB RAM cost.

The blood drained from his face, as he admitted Apple gouged him $800.00 for his RAM.

Perhaps it is wise to examine ALL the available choices and their associated costs.

Edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox, 11 October 2011 - 10:54 AM.
Brain fart

[kdoot]

ZB, to me what you've just done is the exact equivalent to a digital music fan dropping into a "Hey check out the latest turntable from xyz" thread and calling vinyl lovers idiot luddites because so obviously the digital side is better and paying so much money for a turntable is a stupid waste of money.

I don't really care about your opinion in this instance, but I really don't like the choices you made in expressing it. That kind of post detracts from forums instead of contributing to them, in my opinion.

(As for the original topic... over a million pre-orders in the first 24 hours, but my wife and I will probably stick with our 4's for the time being.)

[Batty]

Must admit, not me. I'm not an Apple fan either. My son has an iPod Touch and I think it was vastly overpriced for what it does. I have a SE Experia Arc Android phone and it does much more than I need, it also controls my SB touch remotely. My son now has the same phone as I do and he no longer uses his iPod.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

ZB, to me what you've just done is the exact equivalent to a digital music fan dropping into a "Hey check out the latest turntable from xyz" thread and calling vinyl lovers idiot luddites because so obviously the digital side is better and paying so much money for a turntable is a stupid waste of money.

I don't really care about your opinion in this instance, but I really don't like the choices you made in expressing it. That kind of post detracts from forums instead of contributing to them, in my opinion.

(As for the original topic... over a million pre-orders in the first 24 hours, but my wife and I will probably stick with our 4's for the time being.)

Whilst you are probably correct, I can't understand why any 'phone purchaser would not examine ALL the available choices and the associated costs with those choices. Perhaps I was a little harsh in pushing my opinions, I would still suggest that a careful examination of the choices is always the best option. Be it 'phones, hi fi, cars or TV sets.

Make sense?

[mondie]

Yeah l plan on getting one, will be my first Smartphone. With a trip to the UK at the end of the year and the need to stay in touch with work it will make life a little easier while traveling.

now l just need to find out what the best Apps are.

Cheers,
mondie

[wolster]

I was one of the anti-Apple brigade and, for a while, I was the only one in our family without an iPhone.

After occasionally using them I got an iPhone 4 when my Optus contract fell due. Best phone I have ever had. We also now have an iPad which get's used every day.
Sure Apple rip us off. Sure Android have a heap of apps but Apple apps tend to be more advanced from what I have seen and, more importantly, are all in the one place for download. No app I have bought has seemed expensive, in fact most of mine were free.

But, hey, ZB, you are entitled to your view and, to the OP, yes, I'll get the 4S. A faster processor and better camera will be welcome but only when my contract falls due.

[kdoot]

Whilst you are probably correct, I can't understand why any 'phone purchaser would not examine ALL the available choices and the associated costs with those choices. Perhaps I was a little harsh in pushing my opinions, I would still suggest that a careful examination of the choices is always the best option. Be it 'phones, hi fi, cars or TV sets.

Make sense?

Certainly does. I just hope you can come to terms with the fact that sometimes people make different decisions than you would, based on their own criteria. I have no interest in owning a turntable, but I'm perfectly OK that lots of folks around here love 'em and spend a fortune on their analogue rigs. I absolutely love my iPhone 4 and the new 13" MacBook Air that I'm typing this on, but I wouldn't dare presume that buying an Android phone and Windows PC is the wrong choice for everybody else.

Viva la difference!

[Full Range]

I have a pass me down iPhone 3
I only use it for phone calls and a little texting
When I say little I mean approx $5.00 a month

[DoggieHowser]

I recently got an Android honeycomb tablet because it was dirt cheap and because my wife catches foreign dramas on flash enabled sites. I had a Nexus One and Milestone before. The N1 was pretty stable but the Milestone rebooted itself everytime I slid the keyboard out to type the passcode (mandated by my firm's security policy). I've since relegated the Milestone for a second phone where I don't implement password protection.

Back to the tablet.

Despite touting dual cores and Nvidia graphics, the UI was still juddery. Upgrading to 3.1 helped a little.

But it's one of the same gripes I had from using Android phones. I always feel like I'm a beta tester. Waiting for the next stable release. Always. While I've always been a techie, these days I want a device that just works out of the box. And not rely on third party hacks to get it right.

Sure the OS is more flexible. But the UI is also a lot more inconsistent.

I can understand the appeal and I can see a time when I would have been first on the block to get one. But for my own needs, my main phone requirements are best met by the iOS.

[DoggieHowser]

Ps I ordered an unlocked 64GB on day one.

But that's primarily because the Home button on my 4 is shot. Which is the gripe I have with Apple. How can they not have seen this problem before and not addressed this? It's been a problem since the 3G and got progressively worse when multitasking was introduced and made more use of the home button.

Apple has quite readily swapped my faulty one before for a pristine refurbed unit and for a number of friends but that's just not a viable solution.

[MrHorsepower]

Interested but will still wait for the 5.

[DRC]

I am with ZB on this one. Presently have an iPhone + iPod, will be looking at other less restrictive alternatives for the future.

[88pro]

Certainly does. I just hope you can come to terms with the fact that sometimes people make different decisions than you would, based on their own criteria. I have no interest in owning a turntable, but I'm perfectly OK that lots of folks around here love 'em and spend a fortune on their analogue rigs. I absolutely love my iPhone 4 and the new 13" MacBook Air that I'm typing this on, but I wouldn't dare presume that buying an Android phone and Windows PC is the wrong choice for everybody else.

Viva la difference!

I completely agree with kdoot. I have an iPhone 3GS and planning on upgrading to iPhone 4S. As I am typing this on my Macbook Air, and I love apple products.

Its easy to compare two products and claim feature parity just because the feature is listed on both products. Here is an interesting read on the level detail Apple goes into designing their UI. This is one is about the mail app (http://theinvisibl.c.../24/iphonemail/)

Now the iPhone 4S camera is very special. Not because it has 8MP camera (Samsung Galaxy S2 has 8MP as well) but because how iPhone camera lets more light in, and it has an aperture of F2.4, and they even demoed a picture with shallow depth of field due to that wide opening, and on top of that, the image processing is done on the chip. On chip image processing and the resulting speed is just a dream in the Android world (for now), because google can't build OS to support specific chip spec. Probably thats why they bought Motorola because they are beginning to realize controlling to the entier eco system is only way they could gain the competitive advantage.

I think you should buy the phone that satisfies your needs. I know lot of Android phone users who are happy with their phones, and one of the things they really appreciate about their phone is seamless Google Apps integration. They cant live without that feature.

Like kdoot said, people made different decisions based on their own criteria as to whats useful to them and what excites them. iPhone excites me

[mikizee]

Apple may be more expensive, but no one can get anywhere near them when it comes to quality of UI, build quality or after sales support. Worth the premium.

[JohnA]

iphone is one product of apples i wont own.

I love their laptops and the ipods, but the iphones just dont do it for me.
MY wife owns the 4, she loves it, she wont upgrade to 4s as its not a worthwhile upgrade.
I dont need a smart phone, and i dont care for the size if them either. Just give me a simple phone thats small and makes and receives phone calls

[valvelover]

I'll get one (gasp!), probably towards the end of the year. It'll be my first smartphone too. Apple makes some very good products, but Zaphod's comments that they are vastly overpriced is 100% correct. The problem with the competition (Android) is that it's about as polished as a turd imho. Apple has done a great job with the store, and pricing too. UI on the iPhone is far better than any of the competitor's phones imho. I would like to so better reliability though - there's tonnes of issues with iPhones - from screens, to wireless antennae issues, to the home button as another poster mentioned. Reliability gets a B- to be honest. Android phones do tend to be better built and more robust from what I've personally seen.

Dave

[Chill3]

Whilst you are probably correct, I can't understand why any 'phone purchaser would not examine ALL the available choices and the associated costs with those choices. Perhaps I was a little harsh in pushing my opinions, I would still suggest that a careful examination of the choices is always the best option. Be it 'phones, hi fi, cars or TV sets.

Make sense?

Well I have looked at all the options and use Apple products - home and work - and in my opinion they are not a "rip off" in fact many are better value than the opposition even before you con side superior user experience.
For example take a Macbook Pro 13 base model - find me a PC lap top, as well made and robust for travel and still light with as good a screen & with 7 to 8 hours of battery life ... then even if you do it will usually come with Windows Home - so kiss $200 buck good by to upgrade and get it on a work network

all that is of course my view and yours can be different - but for some reason you do not find me jumping on threads that mention Microsoft or Dell products with some ill judged rant

ZB - you comments re Steve Jobs in a previous post were not only wrong - they were insensitive in the extreme give it was the day of his passing, I did not comment then as it would have dragged the thread OT in a very bad way - get over you irrational feeling re what is just a successful IT / technology company - that currently makes very popular and good value products - if they were not good value, in the view of most people, they would not sell so many !

And to the OP - yes have a iPhone 4S on order, for the simple reason of integration (until now I have just been used simple "phone" ), as I use Mac at work and Home and have iPads and iPods - the iCloud + OS5 and syncing every thing from photos to contacts across all devices is very compelling

[Drizt]

I have an 3GS and will most likely be switching to a Samsung Galaxy SII. My 3GS has been pretty crap as an actual phone but the usage and apps have been great. I friggin hate iTunes though. Worst bit of software ever written... grrrrr.

[DoggieHowser]

Zaph, if you buy "original" PC memory from HP or IBM or Dell, it will probably cost you the same as the ones from Apple.

I got an Apple compatible memory module for way less. Strontium has an Apple specific 4GB DDR3 1333MHz for less than 40 bucks. I ended up getting 4 of them and loaded up my father in law's monster iMac with 16GB.

[Muscat]

There is definitely an apple tax on their products. You'll find that you get more for your money if buying a windows device with the equivalent specs. But on the other hand you get a well designed product with premium look and feel and of course the OS. The trick to minimising the price disparity is to avoid RAM/HDD upgrades and to DIY.

Having said that, I'll probably give the iphone 4s a miss. Like JohnA, I think it's just too big to lug around. Perhaps this is the way to go: https://www.johnsphones.com/

[biologist]

I've owned 4 Mac computers, two laptops and two desktops, both laptops are still in daily use while the desktops finally got retired a couple of years back when I got my first laptop. One desktop was bought in 1996, the other in 2001. I won't allow a PC into my home, they are just rubbish as far as I'm concerned.

I also use Macs at work and have bought over 30 Macs for various people in our research team, a small island of MAC users in a sea of PC's. Over time we have also purchased a number, 5 or 6, highly specc'ed Windows based desktops and laptops. These were the most disastrous decisions we ever made. The windows machines were unreliable, constantly breaking down and provided all sorts of software issues with our network (a PC based network), and all were ultimately retired early as people went back to their old, in some cases much older, MACs to get productive again.

PC users ill informed comments about MACs are always based on not truely knowing the product, I've used both and I know where I will spend my money in future.

That said I don't own an iPhone, I even disable the net capabilities of my Nokia as I only use SMS and voice calls and have no need of other frippery in my phone. I prefer phones with a full function keyboard as I hate that stupid 1ABC 2 DEF .... text cycling, drives me nuts.

[danter]

I love my 3S - it is wonderful for everything except phone calls. If they could just get that right, it would be the near perfect product.
I have had a play on a few different Android phones and nothing comes close to the ease of use of the iphone UI.

And this is from an ex die hard Nokia fan (who make phones that are brilliant for phone calls but little else).

[Vortexjah]

Already pre-ordered one, my optus contract is up and now my iphone 3GS will be relegated to home duties.

[yardley]

i just got a htc sensation from hong kong. very happy with it and the price i paid. i like the ipods but im not a fan of the iphones...

[Drizt]

I love my 3S - it is wonderful for everything except phone calls.

Do you know if the iPhone 4 and 4s are any better at phone calls? The 3GS really is poor in this regard. I would never recommend an iPhone based on my 3GS experience.

[88pro]

most likely be switching to a Samsung Galaxy SII

If you could get your hands on a SII and use it for a week to see if you like it, before you switch, that would be ideal.

[88pro]

to wireless antennae issues

There is not a single smart phone out there that doesn't have the Antena issue. At least with iPhone 4S apple has put in a cleaver solution to switch between antenas based on which one is exposed and not covered by hand.

[mikizee]

Do you know if the iPhone 4 and 4s are any better at phone calls? The 3GS really is poor in this regard. I would never recommend an iPhone based on my 3GS experience.

What network are you on Drizt? I used to have loads of call dropout etc on my iphone until I switched to Telstra... and I realised it was Optus' shoddy network that was the problem, not the phone. Vodafone is also terrible.

The phone itself is fine.

[88pro]

Do you know if the iPhone 4 and 4s are any better at phone calls?

4S is suppose to be better at phone calls. But thats just based on the announcement. We will have to wait and see if there is real improvements once the handset is in consumers hands.

Check this link for the details.

Smart About the iPhone 4S’s Antenna?

[Jake]

I have a 3GS (work phone) and a 4G (private). Quite happy with them both.

[Drizt]

What network are you on Drizt? I used to have loads of call dropout etc on my iphone until I switched to Telstra... and I realised it was Optus' shoddy network that was the problem, not the phone. Vodafone is also terrible.

The phone itself is fine.

It is not the network but the phone itself which is the issue. It is the only phone I have had where I find it hard to hear what is going on if there is lots of ambient noise (city streets with plenty of traffic). My wife and our friends also have the same issue with their 3GS.

[Drizt]

This looks pretty good => http://www.gizmodo.c...as-720p-screen/

I might hang out for this..

galaxy-nexus

• Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich
• 9mm thin
• 4.65-inch 1280 x 720-pixel Super AMOLED HD with curved glass
• TI OMAP 4460 dual-core Cortex A9 processor clocked at 1.2GHz
• 1GB of RAM
• 32GB of built-in storage
• 5MP camera on the back, 1.3-megapixel in the front
• 1080p HD video capture support
• LTE/HSPA depending on carrier
• Wi-Fi a/b/g/n
• NFC
• 1750 mAh battery

[GSpot]

This looks pretty good => http://www.gizmodo.c...as-720p-screen/

I might hang out for this..

galaxy-nexus

• Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich
• 9mm thin
• 4.65-inch 1280 x 720-pixel Super AMOLED HD with curved glass
• TI OMAP 4460 dual-core Cortex A9 processor clocked at 1.2GHz
• 1GB of RAM
• 32GB of built-in storage
• 5MP camera on the back, 1.3-megapixel in the front
• 1080p HD video capture support
• LTE/HSPA depending on carrier
• Wi-Fi a/b/g/n
• NFC
• 1750 mAh battery

Am I the only one that gets miffed when the specs miss out on one of the most important details...weight? Nice to know it's only 9mm thick. No good if it weighs a tonne though.

[valvelover]

There is definitely an apple tax on their products. You'll find that you get more for your money if buying a windows device with the equivalent specs. But on the other hand you get a well designed product with premium look and feel and of course the OS. The trick to minimising the price disparity is to avoid RAM/HDD upgrades and to DIY.

Agreed.

Well I have looked at all the options and use Apple products - home and work - and in my opinion they are not a "rip off" in fact many are better value than the opposition even before you con side superior user experience.
For example take a Macbook Pro 13 base model - find me a PC lap top, as well made and robust for travel and still light with as good a screen & with 7 to 8 hours of battery life ... then even if you do it will usually come with Windows Home - so kiss $200 buck good by to upgrade and get it on a work network

all that is of course my view and yours can be different - but for some reason you do not find me jumping on threads that mention Microsoft or Dell products with some ill judged rant

ZB - you comments re Steve Jobs in a previous post were not only wrong - they were insensitive in the extreme give it was the day of his passing, I did not comment then as it would have dragged the thread OT in a very bad way - get over you irrational feeling re what is just a successful IT / technology company - that currently makes very popular and good value products - if they were not good value, in the view of most people, they would not sell so many !

And to the OP - yes have a iPhone 4S on order, for the simple reason of integration (until now I have just been used simple "phone" ), as I use Mac at work and Home and have iPads and iPods - the iCloud + OS5 and syncing every thing from photos to contacts across all devices is very compelling

Well, Zaph is free to disagree. I also think that Apple products are very much overpriced. I'd like to see the wholesale manufacturing cost on a iPad ;-) I bet it's under AUD $50.

As to Zaph's comments about Steve Jobs - it's called free speech. Not everyone has to like him, or make uber polite comments about him, just cos he's died.

I've owned 4 Mac computers, two laptops and two desktops, both laptops are still in daily use while the desktops finally got retired a couple of years back when I got my first laptop. One desktop was bought in 1996, the other in 2001. I won't allow a PC into my home, they are just rubbish as far as I'm concerned.

I also use Macs at work and have bought over 30 Macs for various people in our research team, a small island of MAC users in a sea of PC's. Over time we have also purchased a number, 5 or 6, highly specc'ed Windows based desktops and laptops. These were the most disastrous decisions we ever made. The windows machines were unreliable, constantly breaking down and provided all sorts of software issues with our network (a PC based network), and all were ultimately retired early as people went back to their old, in some cases much older, MACs to get productive again.

PC users ill informed comments about MACs are always based on not truely knowing the product, I've used both and I know where I will spend my money in future.

That said I don't own an iPhone, I even disable the net capabilities of my Nokia as I only use SMS and voice calls and have no need of other frippery in my phone. I prefer phones with a full function keyboard as I hate that stupid 1ABC 2 DEF .... text cycling, drives me nuts.

Oh well, I'll disagree about the PC comments - I've had both Macs and PCs and my PCs are still going. Of course, I built them myself and chose quality parts, but they were still significantly cheaper than the Mac equivalents in the day. For my current PC specs, I'd have paid twice the cost if I'd bought an Apple unit.

Dave

[88pro]

Agreed.
Well, Zaph is free to disagree. I also think that Apple products are very much overpriced. I'd like to see the wholesale manufacturing cost on a iPad ;-) I bet it's under AUD $50.

A proper tear down says the Bill of Materiel for iPad 2 (BOM) is $326. $50 would be a joke, the fact that someone thinks Apple is making few hundred percent in profits is alarming and show how misguided this "Apple products are over priced" wisdom.

Now BOM is only for the hardware. What about

1. iOS development and R&D
2. Logistics (for the iPads to be shipped from Foxcon to the markets)
3. R&D
4. Production process and prototyping
5. Apple spent 3 billion on securing displays for iPad/iPhones by building factories for Samsung and Toshiba (what about the return on investment for that money)
6. Retail Store Building Cost & Rentals and Staff
7. Packaging
8. Future iOS upgrades (According to law atleast in US, if you want to push a future version of iOS to existing customer, you need to charge them, otherwise customer has to pay for the upgrade)
9. Advertising and Marketing
10. Dealers margins (Like Best buy and Wallmart, etc).
11. Patent licensing (Apple pays Nokia licensing fee and also paid some $400M as one of payment)
11. Profit? (I guess they are allowed to make some profit )

If you add all this upto $326 base of base cost, probably cost of an iPad is way more than $50. It's no secrete apple makes about 30% margin (down from 40% in 2008 I think) on its product overall.

Also if the BOM is $50 why there is no other tables with iPads specs going for $100?

[DoggieHowser]

You have to also pay for IPR licencing to Qualcomm et al

[CJCC67]

I use an iPhone 4 and am typing this from an iPad. I don't recommend the products on two major basis. Lack of flash support makes browsing a frustrating experience as most web page use flash. I usually don't see most pictures posted on stereonet and a lot of the embedded YouTube links.
Copying and pasting a picture into the currently xxxx thread is a hit and mis affair.
The other major turnoff is the spell checker requiring you to opt out of its suggestion, as if it knows your intentions..
I'll purchase another tablet down the track and when my phone is out of plan something that supports flash and runs outlook.

Edited by CJCC67, 11 October 2011 - 08:50 PM.
Spelling !!!

[Jake]

I use an iPhone 4 and am typing this from an iPad. I don't recommend the products on two major basis. Lack of flash support makes browsing a frustrating experience as most web page use flash. I usually don't see most pictures posted on stereonet and a lot of the embedded YouTube links.
Copying and pasting a picture into the currently xxxx thread is a hit and mis affair.
The other major turnoff is the spell checker requiring you to opt out of its suggestion, as if it knows your intentions..
I'll purchase another tablet down the track and when my phone is out of plan something that supports flash and runs outlook.

You should use Tapatalk for SNA on the iphone/ipad. Its a brilliant free app for forums. Works great.

[CJCC67]

Thanks Jake I will. Last I read on that thread it was unstable, I guess it's sorted now?

[Jake]

Thanks Jake I will. Last I read on that thread it was unstable, I guess it's sorted now?

I use it every day. Works fine.

[holdencaulfield2007]

After the bollocking poor old ZB has copped am I allowed to say that I do not own any of their products because I find them to be vastly overpriced. Their was and is a cult of celebrity about the late Steve Jobs (who I respected) and Apple products in general. For example you will see nerds waiting out at midnight outside an Apple store to buy Apple Leopard or Tiger release 3.1256 or a new Iphone 4.xyz so that they have some sort of street cred. Just about everyone on a train or tram or bus has an Isomething so can something be cool or avant garde when everyone has one? No they are just everyday consumer products like washing machines or dishwashers so what is the big deal?
BTW this is just my own personal view and is not meant to offend all the happy Apple users!

[Gabba]

I'm very happy with my Samsung Galaxy S and have only heard even better things from friends on the SII. I much prefer the freedom from iTunes and the appstore. An iPhone is easier to use but I also prefer the UI on Android based phones.

As a company I despise Apple, with all of their restrictions and control they became what they were supposed to offer an alternative to (in thier 1984 ad). However, I can't not acknowledge the contribution of Jobs to the technological world.

[88pro]

Lack of flash support makes browsing a frustrating experience as most web page use flash. I usually don't see most pictures posted on stereonet and a lot of the embedded YouTube links.

Just on the flash comment. I completely agree that if you use lot of flash based sites them iPhone or iPad will be a nightmare. However, whats the cost of supporting flash?

Flash is most buggy and evil software that drains battery and consumes all the CPU and makes the device run hot. A good and funny read would be a blog post from Zed Shaw on this topic.

Also if you buy a Tablet that supports flash I guarantee that the battery life will suck on it, big time. Even if you don't use flash content on a long trip to preserve battery life, when you are visiting sites thinking they are non flash, if the device supports flash they will serve flash based banners draining batter life, however if the device doesn't support flash then they will server HTML 5 video.

On top of that Adobe itself has realised that flash is not the future and moving towards HTML5 video.

Comscore released web usage statistics. Want to guess which tablet has 97% usage? iPad.

In August 2011, iPads delivered 97.2 percent of all tablet traffic in the U.S. iPads have also begun to account for a higher share of Internet traffic than iPhones (Source)

iPhone/iPad supported youtube content from day one (from first iPhone, since my understanding is youtube uses H.264 encoding.

However, if still flash is a must then I agree iPad is not the choice, but all I am warning is, make sure in order to get flash, you understand the compromises you are making and you are happy with those compromises.

I use my iPhone to check stereo.net and never had issues with seeing the picture or youtube.

[yardley]

htc makes the best mobile phones