45 replies to this topic

[cableconnoisseur]

About a month or so ago, I sought opinions/advice from Golf GTi owners, but have decided that the Polo GTi is more in line with my budgetary constraints.

Just curious to know if anybody on SNA drives one of these and if they'd be prepared to share their opinion on the car, running costs, service & reliability issues etc.

Open forum preferred, but PM's are always welcome too.

Thanks in anticipation,

Russ.

[DoggieHowser]

Are you prepared to wait 1 year for the car?

[:) al]

check the vw watercooled forum but yeah I'd say youd have quite a wait. if budget an issue is a second hand gti an option. will save you a bundle in depreciation ! and you'll have a car a lot faster !

[triode12]

VW has made the 1.4 TSI engine run really lean in the new GTI which has caused a few problems with reliablity (toasted cylinders). There have also been problems with the new 7spd dry clutch.

I've test driven the new Polo GTI and the previous model and much prefer the previous one as it was more fun to drive. The new one is too refined and you don't get that sense of speed when you drive it. YMMV.

If you want a new car, I would recommend the Polo 1.2TSI with manual transmission, it is IME more fun to drive than the GTI model and is about $10-12K cheaper (depending on the options you choose).

[cableconnoisseur]

Are you prepared to wait 1 year for the car?

I'm aware of delays.....but I'm not in a tearing hurry as I have an o'seas holiday (family included) coming up at year's end.

Will be making the purchase early in the new year.

Lots can occur world-wide in the next financial quarter.

[cableconnoisseur]

check the vw watercooled forum but yeah I'd say youd have quite a wait. if budget an issue is a second hand gti an option. will save you a bundle in depreciation ! and you'll have a car a lot faster !

2nd hand isn't a viable option as it will be salary sacrificed (Novated Lease) and the oldest car would have to be less than 2 years old to make it worthwhile.

[cableconnoisseur]

VW has made the 1.4 TSI engine run really lean in the new GTI which has caused a few problems with reliablity (toasted cylinders). There have also been problems with the new 7spd dry clutch.

I've test driven the new Polo GTI and the previous model and much prefer the previous one as it was more fun to drive. The new one is too refined and you don't get that sense of speed when you drive it. YMMV.

If you want a new car, I would recommend the Polo 1.2TSI with manual transmission, it is IME more fun to drive than the GTI model and is about $10-12K cheaper (depending on the options you choose).

It will have to be a DSG.

There isn't a manual option on the GTi Polo.

Oh......and I haven't driven a manual for over 27 years now.

[triode12]

It will have to be a DSG.

There isn't a manual option on the GTi Polo.

Oh......and I haven't driven a manual for over 27 years now.

You can get the 7spd DSG on the 1.2L 77TSI as well.

[Full Range]

Sorry Russ
I will get back to you on the Polo subject as a business associate just got one about 4 months ago
I just need to call him and have a chat

Now sorry for taking this thread off track but?
Can I ask a related question more of reliability
Its regarding a 4 year old VW Passat diesel that may become the wife's car

FR

[Bus_Boy]

My sister has the 1.2 TSI with the 7sp, and having driven both that and the GTI, i can say i agree with the above comment that the 1.2 is easier to live with and more fun to drive. The GTI has the final edge on the performance, but the base model has the substance. (This is coming from a car nut my entire life) For the extra you pay, i really can't see where it's worth spending.

You'd have to take the car to a track and really exploit it to notice any indifferences, on your way to work however, you'd appreciate not spilling your coffee on your shirt over however many tenths of a second between red lights. With the savings made, any reputable tuning store would be able to rework both the engine and suspension to the point where it would outperform the GTI model for less overall outlay.

Previous generation 1.8 turbo models were a different story. A very low blow turbo just waiting for the wick to be turned up.

Edited by Bus_Boy, 13 September 2011 - 08:46 PM.

[DoggieHowser]

I've got the 1.2T and while it's zippy enough and frugal to a fault, it's does run out of puff as you hit the higher revs. The GTI is faster off the lights and keeps pulling.

[triode12]

I've got the 1.2T and while it's zippy enough and frugal to a fault, it's does run out of puff as you hit the higher revs. The GTI is faster off the lights and keeps pulling.

Dude, not everyone is a hoon and needs to win at traffic light GPs.

[mikizee]

You might wanna read this thread.

link

[triode12]

You might wanna read this thread.

link

After reading that thread, I am so thankful that I was fortunate to get two good ones. Both MkV Golfs - One new and one used. Not to say I haven't had issues but they were solved quickly under warranty. My wife and I enjoy driving them. They are a lot more fun to drive than equivalent Japanese cars and I dare say safer as well.

[Bus_Boy]

IMO the link is a little unfair. Search for any manafactuer from Ford to Ferrari, and you'll find horror stories, claims of the car being a lemon and so forth. It's the same with all things.

[56oval]

Hi Russ
I know its a bit personal but could you give us a bit of a clue what your lease budget is.

Cheers

[DoggieHowser]

Dude, not everyone is a hoon and needs to win at traffic light GPs.

When you are trying to overtake on a highway, the lack of grunt at the high end is noticeable.

I used the lights analogy because that's mostly what you'd encounter in a test drive, and the initial pull of the puny 1.2 engine is nothing short of amazing.

[triode12]

When you are trying to overtake on a highway, the lack of grunt at the high end is noticeable.

I used the lights analogy because that's mostly what you'd encounter in a test drive, and the initial pull of the puny 1.2 engine is nothing short of amazing.

I managed to get to 120km/hr going uphill no less without any difficulty and no feeling that it had reached it's limit, as a matter of fact, I believe the throttle was only half depressed at most. So I don't think it will be an issue overtaking at highway speeds. There is enough torque at the higher revs to accomplish that. That is the beauty of VWs, you don't have to rev the hell out of their engines to get the power out of them. And the car was stable and confident at 120km/hr unlike the Mazda 2 I hired for a few days a year ago. It was already feeling floaty and twitchy at 90km/hr.

Best for the OP to take test drive to see if it suits his purposes.

Edited by triode12, 13 September 2011 - 11:27 PM.

[DoggieHowser]

It's a small turbo. Physics at work.

[56oval]

If you need X amount of power over taking ,should you be over taking in the first place .

Cheers

[DoggieHowser]

Is it doable? Yes.

Is it safe? Relatively on a highway.

Maybe I'm just more used to have a bigger window that comes with more power across the band

That said, I found the 1.2T with the DSG to be waaay more responsive in all aspects vs the Volvo C30 2.0N/A with their (slow as molasses) version of the DSG

I expect the Focus will also be using a similar combo.

[cableconnoisseur]

My sister has the 1.2 TSI with the 7sp, and having driven both that and the GTI, i can say i agree with the above comment that the 1.2 is easier to live with and more fun to drive. The GTI has the final edge on the performance, but the base model has the substance. (This is coming from a car nut my entire life) For the extra you pay, i really can't see where it's worth spending.

You'd have to take the car to a track and really exploit it to notice any indifferences, on your way to work however, you'd appreciate not spilling your coffee on your shirt over however many tenths of a second between red lights. With the savings made, any reputable tuning store would be able to rework both the engine and suspension to the point where it would outperform the GTI model for less overall outlay.

Previous generation 1.8 turbo models were a different story. A very low blow turbo just waiting for the wick to be turned up.

I'm not looking at the GTi from the performance issue perspective, but the limited build numbers perspective.

I realise that the lesser variants may have almost everything that the GTi may under its skin.....but the GTi just looks so much nicer...:loveat least from my perspective.

Another SNAer took me for a test drive in his new Golf GTD and we went on a drive on one of the most challenging roads here in Brookfield (Haven Rd).

The car traversed that road with utter ease.........and was very, very impressive.

Whilst I realise that it is the 2 litre (diesel) variant..........I now see why these cars have earned such a reputation with enthusiasts.

[cableconnoisseur]

Hi Russ
I know its a bit personal but could you give us a bit of a clue what your lease budget is.

Cheers

$800/mth Mal,

With a 28% residual at the end of 5 years.

[triode12]

I'm not looking at the GTi from the performance issue perspective, but the limited build numbers perspective.

I realise that the lesser variants may have almost everything that the GTi may under its skin.....but the GTi just looks so much nicer...:loveat least from my perspective.

Another SNAer took me for a test drive in his new Golf GTD and we went on a drive on one of the most challenging roads here in Brookfield (Haven Rd).

The car traversed that road with utter ease.........and was very, very impressive.

Whilst I realise that it is the 2 litre (diesel) variant..........I now see why these cars have earned such a reputation with enthusiasts.

The 77TSI with the comfort pack (17 inch rims) looks just as good as the GTI IMO Plus you have more boot space. The Battery for the Polo GTI is located in the boot which eats up some space.



Take both for a test drive and then decide. I have a mkV Golf GTI and I much prefer the 77TSI model over the new Polo GTI. I just found the new Polo GTI too refined (not fun to drive). YMMV.

Edited by triode12, 14 September 2011 - 02:48 PM.

[cableconnoisseur]

I haven't driven either variant, but will have the opportunity to drive 'em both by month's end.

If what you allude to is true............I'd be happy to go with the cheaper option.

Thanks very much for your consideration.

Russ.

[DoggieHowser]

I understand options depreciate the most so not sure if your lease arrangement would work out better using a lower end model with added options vs a GTI where the items you want are standard.

FWIW the GTI gets the xenon option and I recall the lower end models don't. Not sure if it's a big deal for you but I really miss not having it on mine.

[Bus_Boy]

Are their any aftermarket HID conversion kits that can be purchased for the lower end models?

Edited by Bus_Boy, 14 September 2011 - 09:00 PM.

[DoggieHowser]

VWs use the computer bus for controlling all the electronics and it's a chore getting the VAGCOM to enable the right codes. Plus it's not legal to run aftermarket HID kits in Australia w/o the factory fitted washers (from what I read elsewhere).

[56oval]

$800/mth Mal,

With a 28% residual at the end of 5 years.

HI Russ
I'll work out what my gti cost ,the least price was 52K and the cars almost fully optioned up .will yours will be fully novated covering all running cost .

CHeers

[cableconnoisseur]

HI Russ
I'll work out what my gti cost ,the least price was 52K and the cars almost fully optioned up .will yours will be fully novated covering all running cost .

CHeers

Yes..........fully novated inclusive of Insurance, fuel, maintenance etc etc.

[Benje]

Russ

about 18 months ago, I took the little Golf with the 1.4 litre engine for a test drive. Honestly, it was the closest thing I have experienced to transferring to warp-speed (a ka Star Wars and The Millenium Falcon). I liked the way the golf handled, as long as it had the better handling suspension option. I don't know what the price points and options are these days, and I recall I was frustrated by the likely cost of my options (felt like just getting the GTI).

In the end, we went a different way, and have a 2 litre turbo-diesel (BMW X1) - I didn't think I would enjoy a diesel as much as I have enjoyed this. Plenty of grunt, but equally happy to just chug quietly along at 45 km/h in suburbia. I realise the particular car I am mentioning is not in your price point, but the point I am making is that diesel engines in small cars can surprise you - they are not tractor engines! And the golf 1.4 litre turbo/super charged engine is unbelievable as well.

Happy shopping.

Benje

Edited by Benje, 15 September 2011 - 08:07 AM.

[56oval]

Yes..........fully novated inclusive of Insurance, fuel, maintenance etc etc.

Morning Russ
The lease works at to be @ 1k NET a month .But on a car with less options it would be cheaper .


Cheers

[cableconnoisseur]

Russ

about 18 months ago, I took the little Golf with the 1.4 litre engine for a test drive. Honestly, it was the closest thing I have experienced to transferring to warp-speed (a ka Star Wars and The Millenium Falcon). I liked the way the golf handled, as long as it had the better handling suspension option. I don't know what the price points and options are these days, and I recall I was frustrated by the likely cost of my options (felt like just getting the GTI).

In the end, we went a different way, and have a 2 litre turbo-diesel (BMW X1) - I didn't think I would enjoy a diesel as much as I have enjoyed this. Plenty of grunt, but equally happy to just chug quietly along at 45 km/h in suburbia. I realise the particular car I am mentioning is not in your price point, but the point I am making is that diesel engines in small cars can surprise you - they are not tractor engines! And the golf 1.4 litre turbo/super charged engine is unbelievable as well.

Happy shopping.

Benje

Thanks Benje,

I did try a diesel.............a Hyundai i30 wagon and it was an un-friggin-believably enjoyable drive.

There are so many cars in this price range ($25 to $30K) that are really tempting, but so far my heart's set on the Polo.

The last time I went new car shopping (5 years ago now) I ended up with a car that wasn't on any short list that I had compiled........it may well turn out that way again.

[Benje]

Thanks Benje,

I did try a diesel.............a Hyundai i30 wagon and it was an un-friggin-believably enjoyable drive.

heh heh. My previous car was a Honda Civic Type R, with a VTEC engine that went variable valve at about 5400 rpm through to 8200 rpm. That too was like hitting warp speed, but you had to get to 5400 rpm before the extra 'kick'.

It wasn't as enjoyable a drive on the daily commute.

The diesel gives me plenty of power on the open road, and an ability to drive sedately and quietly around town. My drive is more enjoyable across both types of driving.

What really pissed me off in my last year with the Type R was the nice, windy bits of country road I might travel once a week were switched from unlimited speed to 80 km/h to 60 km/h. It was incredibly frustrating having a car which just wanted to go fast, but you just couldn't speed anymore, even on the country hills roads.

PS I am loving the expanded range of a diesel - my distance between visits to the fuel station has nearly doubled!

Edited by Benje, 15 September 2011 - 12:53 PM.
extra ps added

[alittlewino]

Russ,

google any "VW" "lemon" combos and you'll be flooded with info

had a gen 5 golf 2.0l comfortline auto for the lady - nice car to drive, interior quality was low rent for a circa $40K car at the time and 3 replacements for the auto wiper and once for the auto lights modules left me with a suspicion of the quality of components - luckily all replaced under warranty and daren't think what they would cost.

also, the battery died and VW assist on a Sunday morning (supposedly 24/7 service) was useless - thankfully had the other car with RACQ who obliged, but the battery was covered under warranty and I got reimbursed at the next service.

best wishes on your search for the new steed


ALW

[cableconnoisseur]

I test drove one of these machines at the weekend.

And I'm still smilin' from ear to ear.............

It does everything 'just right' in my book.

Now I just gotta be patient until there's one available.

PS: I have one of those super-duper RACQ covers...........so I'm not really concerned about battery failure.

[DoggieHowser]

Which one did you test drive? The 77TSI or the GTI?

[LogicprObe]

VWs use the computer bus for controlling all the electronics and it's a chore getting the VAGCOM to enable the right codes. Plus it's not legal to run aftermarket HID kits in Australia w/o the factory fitted washers (from what I read elsewhere).

Just got one of these for my T4 - http://cgi.ebay.com....em=130451472411

Sadly, it doesn't cover the latest Golf.

[cableconnoisseur]

Which one did you test drive? The 77TSI or the GTI?

The Polo GTi and a Golf 118 TSi Comfortline, which has the same dual-charged engine, but slightly de-tuned.

The TSI is also great value as VW dealers are doing special 'Drive Away' deals at the moment.

But.............I want the GTi

[DoggieHowser]

The GTI definitely feels very eager and willing to dart at your command. Had a big grin after driving it too.

[luke352]

As much as a like VW's and I do, I'd never own one outside of an all covered lease. They just don't have the reliability that you'd expect in vehicle's in those price ranges and although there is no doubt worse the difference is in VW parts and service charges which are definitely on the higher side.

Plus all these small capacity twin charged motors are ticking timebombs IMO. You are taking a rather small motor and just straining it much higher than manufacturers have in the past, things are going to break especially with the complexity involved which just means more service points which no doubt won't be given the attention they really require to try and keep service costs down.

[warren2503]

I dont believe that the argument "Plus all these small capacity twin charged motors are ticking timebombs IMO" holds water. Motor management has come a long way over the past 20 years. These 4 cylinder cars use to prpduce 70-100 KW 20 years ago, it was not the motor design taht was the limit but rather the management of fuel air mixture, in fact the "hardware was Over engineered. I used to own a HSV 185KW 5L statesman in 1995 HSVs now put out 327KWs - I know its a differnt motor BUT Most of the uppower is via the use of Computer management of the explossion. It is not in the interest of the manufacturers to place excessive strain on motors . The cost of sleeping WIP ( possible warranty claims ) would be excessive. Computer management has enabled much great preformance with betetr fuel economy

[alittlewino]

PS: I have one of those super-duper RACQ covers...........so I'm not really concerned about battery failure.

the point I was seriously making is that VW 24/7 roadside assist was non-existent for me and I've read of similar experiences which tells me that mine wasn't an isolated occurrence - regardless of what roadside assist comes with the car, I'd make sure I don't have to rely on VW's, but sounds like you have this covered.

ALW

[alittlewino]

As much as a like VW's and I do, I'd never own one outside of an all covered lease. They just don't have the reliability that you'd expect in vehicle's in those price ranges and although there is no doubt worse the difference is in VW parts and service charges which are definitely on the higher side.

Plus all these small capacity twin charged motors are ticking timebombs IMO. You are taking a rather small motor and just straining it much higher than manufacturers have in the past, things are going to break especially with the complexity involved which just means more service points which no doubt won't be given the attention they really require to try and keep service costs down.

having owned a modern day golf can't help but agree with your 1st para.

I also "feel" the same way about small motors putting out similar grunt to 6s & 8s of yesteryear - may be unfounded but it doesn't feel right and certainly wouldn't keep one of these past warranty period, and indeed didn't with mine.

in reality, the relative cost of cars today compared to 30yrs ago really does make them a disposable item for many and the manufacturers know it.

cheers,

ALW

[LogicprObe]

As much as a like VW's and I do, I'd never own one outside of an all covered lease. They just don't have the reliability that you'd expect in vehicle's in those price ranges and although there is no doubt worse the difference is in VW parts and service charges which are definitely on the higher side.

Plus all these small capacity twin charged motors are ticking timebombs IMO. You are taking a rather small motor and just straining it much higher than manufacturers have in the past, things are going to break especially with the complexity involved which just means more service points which no doubt won't be given the attention they really require to try and keep service costs down.

Service cost is your enemy.
That's why I chose a petrol and it is still going strong after 500,000 kms.
My only upgrade path is to turbo diesel VW.
I will stall as long as I can.