770 replies to this topic

[ehtcom]

On the mountain.

[Whatmore]

Hope you were all wearing ear protection !

[ehtcom]

Didn't need it at the track, just in Terry's music room

[56oval]

Looks like Terry still has the EnABL wall treatment .

How loud was it to get that 18" to move like that .

CHeers

[ehtcom]

The room is all about sound. It works.

I didn't want to push then too hard, after the tweeter incident on a couple of GTG's ago.

Terry and a few of the boys made a trip down to Steven-valves for a mini gtg, so I snuck in some video of the franks whilst the room was empty

Cheers, Earle.

[Nigel]

That must have been barking loud, those 18s barely move when I played it at my version of "loud".
Mal, the franks are even better than last year. Amazing.

[Drizt]

I hope tj can come on and give us his thoughts on stevenvalves system. Would love to hear his thoughts on the SQ.

The room is all about sound. It works.

I didn't want to push then too hard, after the tweeter incident on a couple of GTG's ago.

Terry and a few of the boys made a trip down to Steven-valves for a mini gtg, so I snuck in some video of the franks whilst the room was empty

Cheers, Earle.

[mr-happy-pants]

SV's system is built of mainly vintage parts, & sounded like a vintage system.

SV is very happy with it, as it sounds exactly how he wants it to. Good luck to him.

[Drizt]

Indeed, as long as he is happy with it that is all that really matters.

I've only heard a couple vintage systems over the years so I'm not overly familiar with that sort of sound. How would you describe it (other than using the description of vintage)?

SV's system is built of mainly vintage parts, & sounded like a vintage system.

SV is very happy with it, as it sounds exactly how he wants it to. Good luck to him.

[mr-happy-pants]

Indeed, as long as he is happy with it that is all that really matters.

SV is happy with it!

It is not a system for me, as I found it very limited, and I would need to limit/change my taste in music.

As a 2W system running a pair of high efficiency dual cones it has some merit, but it is not a system for me; and remember I own a 12W SET, so I am not just from the SS or high power camp.

I thought the colouration added by the speakers (particularly in vocals) may have hidden any finesse that may have been in the amp or DAC.

I know there are SV & Killer DAC fans out there that swear by the system I heard, but based on my 1 1/2 hour session I will spend my reddies else where.

I am grateful to Steven to have us around and share his system with us; as you always learn something at these sessions.

Graham

[Drizt]

Thank you for your reply G.

Everyone has different likes / dislikes / goals with audio so its safe to assume that with any given system there will be people that like it or don't like it.

I love the diversity though, it is always great to hear other peoples systems to see what else is out there.

[Nigel]

Indeed, as long as he is happy with it that is all that really matters.

The trouble is that the system can only handle narrow (freq) band music, with some colouration and at a safe volume level to avoid those distortions.
Really a fairly amateur attempt at hi-fi. Steven claims to have done it all by ear - I suggest he gets a mic and do it properly.

[joz]

The trouble is that the system can only handle narrow (freq) band music, with some colouration and at a safe volume level to avoid those distortions.
Really a fairly amateur attempt at hi-fi. Steven claims to have done it all by ear - I suggest he gets a mic and do it properly.

Perhaps a little difficult to appreciate after spending time with the Franks.
And many different systems have their fans .
I doubt it would be the route I would take but I have read elsewhere on this forum that it is great!
Somewhere here some people seem to have vastly different opinions?

Btw,I'd use a mike too!

[Grumpy]

Sounds like a educatiuonal time in TJ land and I wish I was there and thanks for the reports fellas, but if that is the music played (the Franks shot) I'd need lots of Coopers to enjoy the Disco.

Edited by Grumpy, 14 October 2011 - 11:28 AM.

[Paul Spencer]

Lots of fantastic music played over the weekend, just amazing how much there is out there that I've never heard before. I pulled out the music I wanted to hear early, then the rest of the time I was more into hearing the new stuff.

The perception of a system - the music chosen is always a huge factor. Pick the wrong music and you can make your own system sound terrible! Then you pull out something you know sounds good ... *sigh of relief* ... I haven't killed it!

It's hard to form too much of an opinion when you can't put on your own music. I did bring a Bluray player which might have enabled us to actually hear our music, but I forgot the remote which I would have used for some volume control. Yep he didn't have a volume control - his system plays at one volume only!

[Drizt]

It is interesting that he uses a form of digital volume control. I haven't heard of anyone else doing it the way he does either. Ripping the CD to his PC then using some software to lower the volume to the setting he likes it at, then burns that to a disk. That is pretty hard core. That said, I always thought traditionalists were against digital volume control.

[joz]

his system plays at one volume only!

?????????????

Oh, I see now.

[mr-happy-pants]

He also prefers his own remix of the recent Beatles remasters. He suggested the recordings "had a peak" which he was able to get rid of (paraphrasing).

[obiwan]

A peak? Curious.

[wolster]

I prefer twin peaks.

[Drizt]

He also prefers his own remix of the recent Beatles remasters. He suggested the recordings "had a peak" which he was able to get rid of (paraphrasing).

Any idea about what he was referring to ?

[mr-happy-pants]

I beleive SV may be in Melbourne for the Hi Fi show. Maybe you can catch up with him & discuss, as I don't have much detail.

[Drizt]

I beleive SV may be in Melbourne for the Hi Fi show. Maybe you can catch up with him & discuss, as I don't have much detail.

That might happen, stranger things have happen. I wonder if I will spot the WA crew walking around.

[Whatmore]

Yes we really should have some way to identify fellow SNAers
Perhaps we could all wear a cone like Earle has in his avatar

[ehtcom]

Hey, you're welcome to lurk in room 318

I'll be the one in the corner.....you know the rest.
Flanny shirt, tracky dacs, cone etc etc..

[Whatmore]

Will definitely come and say g'day Earle

[ozmillsy]

It's hard to form too much of an opinion when you can't put on your own music. I did bring a Bluray player which might have enabled us to actually hear our music, but I forgot the remote which I would have used for some volume control. Yep he didn't have a volume control - his system plays at one volume only!

Paul, your companions have given some open and forthright comments on the system in question. Good on them for being so honest, even if some of the comments were rather unkind.

Acknowledge your point about it being difficult to form an opinion without hearing music you are familiar with, but I would really like to hear your open and honest appraisal on the music you did hear while you were there.

Joz, I definetly have a vastly different opinion. While SV's system doesnt have rock concert slam, it definetly delivers an uncanny presentation that is as vibrant and uncoloured as I've heard on any system. No digital edge whatsoever. It's quite unique, IMHO. As for volume control, there is definetly none present. It's always 1 level, and the majority of music played has not been tampered with as suggested by D - the system is as minimalist as-is possible.

[Drizt]

While SV's system doesnt have rock concert slam, it definetly delivers an uncanny presentation that is as vibrant and uncoloured as I've heard on any system.

Seems we have two polar opposite groups here. Some say SV's system is highly coloured (I hear that is SV's intention). And others saying it is 'uncoloured'.

Its always interesting how some people can see / hear / experience things completely different to others.

Edit: I hope tj shares his thoughts on SV's system.

[ozmillsy]

I think there is a natural tendency to describe something as "coloured" when it sounds so different to what we are used to.

But I stand by the uncoloured comment. The level of realism I experience when I listen to it is incredible. The body in the vocals, the timbrel beauty, the air and space, it makes you feel like "you are there" better than any other system I've heard.

It wont deliver a rock concert experience though, if that is what you're chasing?

Edited by ozmillsy, 17 October 2011 - 01:29 PM.

[Paul Spencer]

Hi ozmillsy,

I think the question needs to come from Steven himself.

[ozmillsy]

I think the question needs to come from Steven himself.

I sensed some reservations in your earlier post, and it wasnt clear to me if you concurred with your companions or not. I'd be interested to know your position.

It's definetly good etiquette to run your opinions/ideas passed SV, before posting a full blown review on a public forum. Kudos for showing some restraint in this regard.

[mr-happy-pants]

Paul, your companions have given some open and forthright comments on the system in question. Good on them for being so honest, even if some of the comments were rather unkind.

To be fair, a balance needs to found.

The balance between being honest about what I experienced, and being aware that it is only MY opinion.

Finesse can be difficult with a keyboard.

There is a lot of curiosity re SV's system, so I wanted to honestly post what I experienced, whilst be fully upfront that SV's system does everything he wants it to with his music choices.
If only we could all be so lucky!

I was aware of some of the music and to my ears I thought some of the vocals were coloured. We disagree; no biggy!

The last thing the internet needs is another gushinig report of someones equipment being written with politically-correct overtones without one iota of reservation.

If SV is concerned about what I wrote, he has not expressed it in his recent communication to me.

Graham

[rawl99]

The trouble is that the system can only handle narrow (freq) band music, with some colouration and at a safe volume level to avoid those distortions.
Really a fairly amateur attempt at hi-fi. Steven claims to have done it all by ear - I suggest he gets a mic and do it properly.

Nigel,

Having spent a whole bucket load more time than your 1.5hrs in front of this system I really have to ask what your definition of 'narrow band music' is.

Safe volume level is a personal opinion. Steve's System puts out a pretty healthy level for a lot of people.

The axiom 80 drivers are specced as 20hz to 20k (sensitivity works out at 100dB/1w/1m - pedantically 97dB @1m for 2.83v into 15 ohms ie 0.5 watt) being driven by 2.5 watts; ie 104ish dB at the speaker, and Steve is using a pair of 15 inch Altec 51516C with a sensitivity circa 100-102dB powered by 3.5 watts ie approx 106dB at the speaker.

If you like loud electronic music or rock music then I have to agree that this is probably not the system for you.

If on the other hand, you listen mainly to classical, vocal, instrumental music then I have to significantly diagree with your opinion expressed above.

ALL systems/components have colouration and distortion. That is just the nature of the beast. One can aim to minimise these, sure, but at the end of the day they will still be present. Thus one needs to work synergistically with the distortion/colouration that is present.

Some loudspeaker designers work on the objective of reducing colouration to as low a level as they can whilst maintaining their sanity (eg Wilson Audio) and others work on using colouration advantageously within their design (eg Proac 1SC). Designs from both camps are raved about in high-end circles so pick your poison.

My personal experience is that there are 2 systems that have really emotionally connected me to the music. One I have written about previously was based on a Rockport Sirius III turntable and about a million bucks worth of gear to keep it company. It did a lot of things very very well but was in no way perfect. The other is Steves system. I spent some time travelling some years ago and did a little hanging around jazz/blues bars in New Orleans and San Francisco and what I hear here at Steves is sonically very close to what I heard live.

As I have mentioned before my son plays a number of instruments in a number of ensembles so I get a silly amount of time sitting in front of live music - sad huh!. The classical reproduction I hear from Steves system correlates very closely with my live listening experiences. So if you enjoy this style of music where you have real-world instruments to reference against then I am sure you would really enjoy the experience of listening to Steve's system (as attested to be quite a number of folks who have been here and calssified his rig as their new 'reference').

If, on the other hand, you listen extensively to heavier rock, electronic, R&B, etc etc then this may not be the rig to suit your tastes. Given the propensity of mixing engineers in live gigs to flog the daylights out of the 'awesomely transparent' 18 or 24 inch horn-loaded bins with several stacks of subs with 10kW driving them all at 130dB then this sytem will sound nothing like that. Many modern recordings of these styles of music are maximised to levels of clipping upon replay and dynamically compressed and interestingly enough have absolutely no real-world reference to compare them with. Wherever one listens to music of this type (amplified/electronic) one is absolutely a slave to the whims of the mixing engineer. Five concerts of the same band in the same location with 5 different engineers will have significantly different presentations. Which one is 'right?' None of them! They are all the engineers personal interpretation.

On the other hand the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra my Son and I went to a couple of weeks ago. Well, that is just right. How else can it be (in a decent venue of course).

I find it interesting that a comment was made "
I thought the colouration added by the speakers (particularly in vocals) may have hidden any finesse that may have been in the amp or DAC".

I have personally found Steve's system to give amazing insight into the subtle texture and timbre of musical instruments and vocals. Moreso, probably, than any other system I have listened to except the other no-expense-spared one mentioned above. Please note that this was playing vinyl on what is arguably one of the worlds finest turntables. Said system on CD was a significant way behind its vinyl playback so if I had to pick between the two on CD I would have to lean toward Steves.

As a ps I had a mate (acoustics engineer by profession) over to help me with measuring and comparing opinions in setting up my room. I had set up the speakers by listening only up to this point. Was going to tweak after measuring. After a couple of hours of measuring and moving speakers in and out, back and forth etc guess where they ended up measuring the best. Right where they were! Not 20mm forward or back but just where they were. See how much better it can be done with a Mic!

But having said that, measurement systems can be very useful when setting systems up and in design of components. I absolutely agree that measurements have their place but they are not the be-all and end-all of setting up a system. Many of the subtle aspects of music reproduction I do not feel can be determined by measurement but that is another discussion elsewhere where I have clearly voiced my views.

　

Cheers

Rawl

[ozmillsy]

The balance between being honest about what I experienced, and being aware that it is only MY opinion.

mr-happy, i'm more than happy to agree to disagree. if it appears coloured compared to what you are used to, then that supports the point made in my last post.

everything is relative.

[mr-happy-pants]

I find it interesting that a comment was made "I thought the colouration added by the speakers (particularly in vocals) may have hidden any finesse that may have been in the amp or DAC".

G'day Rawl

I made that comment, & I stand by it as MY experience.

I find it interesting; that the guys that think SVs gear is the best thing since short skirts seem compelled to shout down anyone with a contrary opinion. Well written all the same.

It's not just agree to disagree, it's more than that IMO. It's about posting a contrary opinion to the SV crew (or similar niche group) without being beaten around the head by others who take exception to it.

I didn't experience what you did, so what!

Let's let people post their experiences without having to defend it at every turn.

I am interested to read about all the experiences out there, not just the gushing over-the-top-can-do-no-wrong-best-system-I-ever-heard posts.

Where's the learning in that?

Graham

[rawl99]

G'day Rawl

I made that comment, & I stand by it as MY experience.

I find it interesting; that the guys that think SVs gear is the best thing since short skirts seem compelled to shout down anyone with a contrary opinion. Well written all the same.

It's not just agree to disagree, it's more than that IMO. It's about posting a contrary opinion to the SV crew (or similar niche group) without being beaten around the head by others who take exception to it.

I didn't experience what you did, so what!

Let's let people post their experiences without having to defend it at every turn.

I am interested to read about all the experiences out there, not just the gushing over-the-top-can-do-no-wrong-best-system-I-ever-heard posts.

Where's the learning in that?

Graham

Graham,

Sliced bread outranks short skirts hands down!

Puzzled am I as Yoda would say.

You write "I made that comment, & I stand by it as MY experience." (emphasis on 'my' by you not added by me)

I write "I have personally found Steve's system to give amazing...."

and I am apparently "compelled to shout down anyone with a contrary opinion" and you it seems are "having to defend it at every turn."

Perhaps you should reread my post since the very heavy implication of your words is that mine are "gushing over-the-top-can-do-no-wrong-best-system-I-ever-heard posts."

There were a number of comments made by moi re some of the limitations of Steves system depending upon your musical preference.

I have no desire to start a war. Please reread my post in light of my comments to you here.

Cheers

Rawl

ps Invite me to your place and I can write a "gushing over-the-top-can-do-no-wrong-best-system-I-ever-heard post" on your system if I feel it deserves it. I will be in Melbourne from Wed till Sunday

Edited by rawl99, 17 October 2011 - 11:15 PM.

[mr-happy-pants]

Hi Rawl

I don't need my system reviewed;
I'm not selling anything. Besides it's not assembled since I moved house.

Enjoy your time in Melbourne at the show

Graham

[ozmillsy]

G'day Rawl

I made that comment, & I stand by it as MY experience.

I find it interesting; that the guys that think SVs gear is the best thing since short skirts seem compelled to shout down anyone with a contrary opinion. Well written all the same.

It's not just agree to disagree, it's more than that IMO. It's about posting a contrary opinion to the SV crew (or similar niche group) without being beaten around the head by others who take exception to it.

I didn't experience what you did, so what!

Let's let people post their experiences without having to defend it at every turn.

I am interested to read about all the experiences out there, not just the gushing over-the-top-can-do-no-wrong-best-system-I-ever-heard posts.

Where's the learning in that?

Graham

Geesh, that's quite an outburst.

I dont see any shouting going on here. The only attacks being made, were about someone elses system. But that's ok, as you say, your experience is your experience, and we can leave it at that.

[Grumpy]

Gee! i thought this was about Bathurst AND short Skirts!

[Nigel]

Nigel,
Having spent a whole bucket load more time than your 1.5hrs in front of this system I really have to ask what your definition of 'narrow band music' is.
Safe volume level is a personal opinion. Steve's System puts out a pretty healthy level for a lot of people.
If you like loud electronic music or rock music then I have to agree that this is probably not the system for you.
If on the other hand, you listen mainly to classical, vocal, instrumental music then I have to significantly diagree with your opinion expressed above.
ALL systems/components have colouration and distortion. That is just the nature of the beast. One can aim to minimise these, sure, but at the end of the day they will still be present. Thus one needs to work synergistically with the distortion/colouration that is present.
Rawl

Hi Rawl,
Let me start by saying that Steven's horns present a great soundstage, as horns do. In response to you points above, I should explain what I meant better.
Your 1st line is wrong. The longer you listen to a system the more it becomes normal and blemishes are no longer noticed. After hours of listening to an ordinary system it can sound quite good, until you walk into the other room and hear a better one. It is immediate. "Bucket loads of listening" means nothing - a few mintutes listening to each of a few discs/genres is plenty.
By 'safe volume level' I meant below the point where IMD becomes evident. saying that SVs system is set to such a point and still be loud enough for most people, including myself, is a compliment to the set-up.
Not that it's important what i like, but i like all sorts of music. SVs system can only play mid-range music well. There is no treble and there is not much bass. The narrow band I mention is "midrange". Single instruments like violn sounded beautiful as they do on many systems.
Orchestral music, again music that does not have broad freq range, but depending on the piece, SVs system would struggle with full orchestra crescendo (as would 90% of SNA members' systems).
Not sure what you mean by colouration, I guess distortion and yes these need to be minimised, the best systems have minimal distortion.
SV manages distortion well, by restricting the music that is played through his system to 1 or 2 simple acoustic instruments, maybe voice.
Also he doesn't use EQ which has some benefits at significant cost (no room correction or speaker correction). Is there any argument that the 2 most important aspects in hi-fi are speaker and room ?

[Mike.L]

Hi Rawl,
Let me start by saying that Steven's horns present a great soundstage, as horns do. In response to you points above, I should explain what I meant better.
Your 1st line is wrong. The longer you listen to a system the more it becomes normal and blemishes are no longer noticed. After hours of listening to an ordinary system it can sound quite good, until you walk into the other room and hear a better one. It is immediate. "Bucket loads of listening" means nothing - a few mintutes listening to each of a few discs/genres is plenty.
By 'safe volume level' I meant below the point where IMD becomes evident. saying that SVs system is set to such a point and still be loud enough for most people, including myself, is a compliment to the set-up.
Not that it's important what i like, but i like all sorts of music. SVs system can only play mid-range music well. There is no treble and there is not much bass. The narrow band I mention is "midrange". Single instruments like violn sounded beautiful as they do on many systems.
Orchestral music, again music that does not have broad freq range, but depending on the piece, SVs system would struggle with full orchestra crescendo (as would 90% of SNA members' systems).
Not sure what you mean by colouration, I guess distortion and yes these need to be minimised, the best systems have minimal distortion.
SV manages distortion well, by restricting the music that is played through his system to 1 or 2 simple acoustic instruments, maybe voice.
Also he doesn't use EQ which has some benefits at significant cost (no room correction or speaker correction). Is there any argument that the 2 most important aspects in hi-fi are speaker and room ?

Nigel its room and speaker and your 'audio resume' which others have posted but you havnt, apparently its important.

[Nigel]

Ah Mike, you finally got back ! The journey from hell. I was tempted to take my bike until the weather forecast.
By audio resume - do you mean my system.

AMP:Bose Lifestyle
Speakers: Bose Satellites (4 of) plus big sub behind the couch.
Source:Bose Lifestyle
DAc: (Internal) Bose Lifestyle
Many SNAers have been to my house and said "This is the best system I've ever heard".

[Mike.L]

noooo i mean your resume others have posted where they have listened and whom they listen and how often.

Nigel i could only dream of a system like yours and with a lifetime of listening i might just bring my cloth ears into tune with a system of such awesomeness right before i die say in 30 or 40 years, or maybe my resume will never have the variety and depth of others. I mean i played the recorder in primary school im going to San Fran in three weeks i watched a THX movie once and saw John Farmhand in concert back in the 80's once so that all adds weight to my opinion making it patronisingly different and more important than yours.

[Mike.L]

Well next year nigel if you want i could trailer down to sydney then ride out with you... weather permitting of course... that way i might even ride one of the katana's or efe's

[Nigel]

Mike,
thanks for the kind words about my awesome system, did I say that other people say it is the best system they have ever heard?
Anyway back on topic, I'd say if you went to an overseas concert that you also have better Ears than everyone else. Oh Hold it...I saw Floyd at Wembley, what an afternoon/night !! that was.....got stoned just breathing in the air. Clouds of it I tell ya.
I suppose that you also know what some real musical instruments sound like ?? There are privileged few people who have experience with instruments up close, so their opinions always double in creditability.