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Modified DCX2496,, Overview...


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#1 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:22 PM

I have received a few PM's and thread posts recently regarding my modified DCX2496. Members have been interested to know who does the mods and what the results are like. After discussing with another sna'er who has one too we thought to begin a thread and discuss the topic..

What Behringer seems to do very well is DSP, processing signals in the digital domain. The DSP side of things is very good, well thought out, quite useful, and offers a wide range of features..

The 'weak point' of Behringer gear is generally known to be the input and output stages in the analog domain, power supply(s), and their conversion from A to D, and D to A (The actual ADC and DAC chips they use are very good, but are let down by surrounding circuits).

With some effort you can convert the DCX into a sonically true high performer perfectly suited for HiFi use. Most mods to the DCX (and the DEQ for that matter) target the points mentioned in the 3rd paragraph. There are many places that offer mods in kit form for DIY, or they will perform the mods if you send in the device, or you can buy a new one 'pre-mod'ed'.. .

I sourced my mods in kit form from "Pilgham Audio" in The Netherlands. I chose the full compliment of DCX mods, which are as follows:

-Replacement Active i/o board that incorporates 6 channel remote volume control
-Linear power supply to replace switchmode and removes the 'mains' completely from inside device
-Master clock and SRC (sample rate converter) replacement
-Replacement voltage regulator circuit for the ADC's, and one for the DAC's
-Upgraded DAC chips (which I haven't actually installed. The chips are too small for me to solder. Plus the stock chips are very good anyway)..

Construction was mostly straight forward.. I found some parts a bit tricky, like removing the old SRC chip and mounting the adapter for the new clock/SRC module. Also making 3 ribbon cables was at times confusing, the instructions and pictures weren't the easiest to follow!! I found myself running down to Altronics for a meter of 26-core ribbon cable and a handful of IDC connectors.... Yes, I had completely stuffed up 2 of those cables.. Second time around,, no problems :-)

The first image is the 'stock' DCX..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]23554[/ATTACH]

The second image is the modified version with all but the DAC chips installed
[ATTACH=CONFIG]23555[/ATTACH]

So, How does it sound ?? Well, I had used a Stock DCX for a long time, so it wasn't hard for me to notice massive improvements,, but I am aware this is relative to the listener, so I wont go on too long about it.

I am using Analog inputs (I have not performed significant listening test with Digital input yet). The first thing I noticed was the silence!! The noise floor had dropped by a huge amount,, I was hearing "nothing-ness" in between sounds that I had not noticed before in my system. I was impressed how 'quiet' my system had become.. Next was the huge improvement in the soundstage depth,, vocals seemed to step out in front of the music, and at cetain times in the song a particular instrument would 'come forward' and then sublty blend back in. Next was stereo imaging, this was much more noticable and easier to achieve. The combination of imaging and sounstage depth, gives this "3D" effect that I had not experineced before!! Last but not least was the improvement to overall clarity & quality of the sound,, crisp and defined mids/highs, but not too overly bright or 'harsh', lows well defined and appeared much more present in the music.. Soon to come (Hopefully!!) is my SGR built 18" sub,, so integration with my modified DCX will be fun & intersting..

So there it is.. Hope it's worth the read for someone

Cheers,
Murphy

Attached Files


Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#2 Guest_Drizzt_*

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:37 PM

Its good to hear that the noise floor was lowered. I have read of some others mentioning that to be a problem with their unmodified units. Thanks for sharing mate.

#3 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 02:08 PM

There was a known problem when using Digital input,, reffered to as the "frying egg" issue.. Maybe that's what you're referring to.. This is fixed with the replacement of the SRC converter chip from the CS8420 to the CS8416..

Cheers,
Murphy

Edited by Cyber_Murphy, 20 September 2010 - 02:41 PM.
typo

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#4 fury

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 02:38 PM

If you don't mind, how much did these mods cost you?
I have a DCX2496 in my system too, and the volume control certainly appeals (currently use a diy kit 6ch volume control), but just wondering how it all compares in terms of price with a deqx etc...

#5 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 02:52 PM

If you don't mind, how much did these mods cost you?
I have a DCX2496 in my system too, and the volume control certainly appeals (currently use a diy kit 6ch volume control), but just wondering how it all compares in terms of price with a deqx etc...


Fury,
The prices in Euro..

-Active I/O kit 270.00 Euro
-Lin Power supply including 12V/20VA AC adapter TUFVASSONS
incl. cable + connector 153.78 Euro
-Vreg built. (for 2) 58.82 Euro
-SRC/Clock built. 117.64 Euro

-DAC AK4396 (for 3) 30.00 Euro

Cheers..





Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#6 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:42 PM

Also worth mentioning that was not in the original post, is that after the mods, I had to re-tune my 'curves', that is, my crossover curves needed a bit of a tweak..
I found I could extend the the crossover point (2 way system) of each driver and steepen the roll off, which has led to a much "fuller" sound.. Although tempted to keep "fine tuning" with the crossover points, I am expecting my sub any day (week) now!! I imagine Integrating the sub will take some effort,, so I will save my efforts for that..
Final note,, I am preparing to use my Pioneer CDJ-400 as a digital source and start listening tests using Digital input (a fellow sna'er has suggested that the digital input on this mod is even better than the analog input,, although I reckon the analog from my Oppo SE is pretty good,, I will give digital input a go!)

Well,, that's about it... Back to the music....

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#7 Guest_Drizzt_*

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:53 PM

I wish you luck on integrating that mighty sub mate :) If your room is like mine you will need a bit of boost in the bottom end. I look forward to seeing / reading about your results. I hope your room is less troublesome than mine and that you won't be needing to get another sub to smooth out the response :( Apparently the sub boxes are complete, Stuart is just waiting on the sub drivers to clear customs. Fingers crossed for you mate.

Back to the DCX. After spending the money on the mods, would you do it all again? Or would you buy another unit instead ?

#8 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:27 PM

I wish you luck on integrating that mighty sub mate :) If your room is like mine you will need a bit of boost in the bottom end. I look forward to seeing / reading about your results. I hope your room is less troublesome than mine and that you won't be needing to get another sub to smooth out the response :( Apparently the sub boxes are complete, Stuart is just waiting on the sub drivers to clear customs. Fingers crossed for you mate.

Back to the DCX. After spending the money on the mods, would you do it all again? Or would you buy another unit instead ?


That's great news about the subs!! It's been almost 8 weeks of painful waiting... Wise man once said "..longer you wait, the better it is.."

You could say my room is troublesome,, probably too much furniture for a pure listening room, and I probably admit my speakers are too big for this room (15" and 1.5" compression driver horn).. Integrating the sub will be a test, in particular how to position it,, and then EQ-ing and crossing over.. Luckily I have a friend who is a sound engineer in the US, and when he's down next will help take some rta measurements and help me "ring out my room"..

Back to DCX, would I go down this path again?? Well I enjoy kit building (soldering, retro fitting etc..), I'm not too much into the "audiophille" side of things which means I dont mind gear like Behringer etc.. My SC-ULD is a silicon chip kit amp, and to me, it's one of the nicest sounding amps I've listened to,, this will probably make the gurus sigh,, so all in all I'm into what sounds good, with a personal touch,, so I would go down this apth rather than buy something of "higher esteem".. Not forgetting the Pilgham Audio mods are designed by Dutch engineer Jans Didden, incorporating Burr Brown OPA1632's, LM4562's, CS8416, and a CS3318,, which you'd fine in many higher end devices, and the AK4393/6's are a very well respected chip too.. So imo the mod-ed DCX is right up there. Plus having used the DCX for a long time, I like the PC software used to configure the unit, you can just use a mouse to "drag" your EQ's and curves,, it's pretty effective..

Cheers..
Murphy

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#9 Guest_Drizzt_*

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:42 PM

Thanks mate, I appreciate where your coming from. I look forward to reading your thoughts on the sub when you get it :)

#10 gainphile

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:31 PM

Thanks very much for this writing :P

At the moment I am weighing whether to invest my time in creating PCBs or purchasing DCX2496.
My equipments have dissapeared....
http://gainphile.blogspot.com

#11 Nigel

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:43 PM

Cyber,
I love the funchinality of the dcx but couldn't live with it unmodded. Well done, you now have a very flexible and powerful device to sort out lots of fings. Jealous.
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#12 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:09 AM

Cyber,
I love the funchinality of the dcx but couldn't live with it unmodded. Well done, you now have a very flexible and powerful device to sort out lots of fings. Jealous.


Thanks Nigel,
Yes, very functional, lots of options to "play with".. The sound quality is fantastic to me, and it seems to be sounding better the more it plays?? I wonder if that's the infamous op-amp burn in theory, which I usually don't give too much attention to..

No need to be jealous,, easy enough to get them modd-ed, many options availiable (Eg trransformer coupling straight from the DACS, passive RCA unbalanced i/o board, special digital transformer conversion, Etc..).. Can be sourced 'pre-modded' if DIY is not your thing..

Cheers..

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#13 Paul Spencer

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:03 PM

Andi, why don't you hunt around for a second hand unit? For the kinds of things you do, it would be ideal, especially being able to tweak and test things out quickly. I'd say you'd enjoy it more than just about anyone else on the forum!

Thanks for sharing CM! I have an unmodified version of DCX. It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison.

By my estimate, the mods were $880.

I haven't had a problem with the noise floor of DCX, but I run it from an AES digital input from DEQ. If I switch to analogue, the noise jumps up. Otherwise, it's dead quiet.

I've done some more optimising of the crossover and I've exceeded my expectations with the sound. After selling my previous speakers, I took a step back with cheaper drivers, but I've now managed to get a sound I like better. It's not hard to think of ways I could make it better, but when I sit down for a music session, I just hear music. When you look at the parts, it's hard to imagine they could work that well.

CM, tell us more about these speakers of yours!

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#14 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:38 PM

I have an unmodified version of DCX. It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison.

By my estimate, the mods were $880.

I haven't had a problem with the noise floor of DCX, but I run it from an AES digital input from DEQ. If I switch to analogue, the noise jumps up. Otherwise, it's dead quiet.

tell us more about these speakers of yours!


Thanks Paul,
I used the stock DCX for a long time, so for me the comparison was obvious. The first most easily noticable improvement was soundstage/imaging, and the quietness, next was improved sound quality/clarity.. I have always used analog inputs.. I have just started testing with Digital, but I'm finding my source output (SPDIF) is too high and the input and output level meters on the DCX reach red too often for my liking.. Not sure if it's to do with SPDIF -> AES/EBU compatibility issues??

At the time I purchased, delivered, it was closer to $1K.

My speakers are nothing too special, but they sound clean, crisp, and (now) quiet. The baffle is a heavy marine ply 2 way, twin ported enclosure. Drivers are a 15" and a 1" compression driver, both Eminence. I got the baffles empty, sourced and mounted the drivers myself. I have solid-terminated each driver with the same speaker wire I use externally to 2 Speakon (NL4) conntectors. (the boxes came with binding posts and crossovers) Originally I found improvement just by replacing internal wires with the same as my external (amp to speaker) wire and solid terminating to the NL4's, and then another boost when I removed the passive Xover modules.. The highs are very nice, and I love the mids! The mid bass is tight and hard, but the lows are are a bit hard to tune and 'separate' from the mid bass.. BUT, once my Sub arrives... I will roll off at about 100Hz (first thought anyway) and like you,, convert to OB..

Cheers
Murphy

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#15 Nigel

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:55 PM

PAul,
you have a great set up ie DEQ digtally into the DCX, but until you deal with the DCX analog output stage you will never get clean treble, and all the other improvements that Cyber and others mention.
If I were you I'd beg Cyber to bring his DCX over to your place and plug your DEQ into it and fire up the barbie. Chances are that when Cyber sees/hears what a DEQ offers as well then he might also put one in front. You of course will then have to decide which mod for your dcx. Opamp replacement is cheap and easy, might get you 80% there ??? $20.
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#16 Paul Spencer

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 01:22 PM

Murphy, I had a similar issue when I tried digital in recently. I had to have the Blu-ray attenuate to about 3% and the result was poor. Also, if it forgot the volume and went back to 100% it could be interesting!

Nigel, I don't think DCX unmodded is a long term solution for me, just one that works for now. I actually have a second DCX which is faulty. Rather than get it repaired I picked up second hand unit. I wonder if the upgrades would actually fix the faulty parts, then I would have a stock and modded version.

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#17 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:03 PM

Paul,
What do you mean "the Blue Ray attenuate 3%"?? I translate that to mean you are able to reduce the output of your digital source?? I'm using a Pioneer CDJ400 as digital source which has no level adjust for Digital (or Analog)..

Nigel,
Paul wouldn't have to beg at all... I'd be happy to bring it for a side by side.. Just one thing though, as mentioned in my opening post, there is one mod I haven't completed yet, and that is to replace the DAC chips themselves (to AK4396!!).. Once this mod is performed, I would then be happy to take it for a demo.. Just find me someone who can solder such small SMD chips :P

Cheers..

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#18 Paul Spencer

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:09 PM

What did you use for the waveguide?

Yes - it has digital volume control.

GTG is on the cards ...

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#19 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

What did you use for the waveguide?


Choice of waveguide was limited by the cut-out int he HF section of the baffle.. So it's just a rectangular exponential type horn.. In my plans for OB, I'd like to go to for a conical or bi-radial horn instead..

BTW, PM repsonded to..

Cheers..
Murphy

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#20 georgepapa

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:24 AM

Hi There.
I too have have obtained dxc upgrade from Pilgham Audio. Being the non soldering type I had Ward assemble all three pcb boards in the basic upgrade kit and delivered to me for 640$ au including postage. From there it was a simple plug and play operation with the exception of drilling two holes in the chasis for the volume pcb.
From my research this is the most economical way to provide an active six channel volume control for the unit. The improved i/o board with the obvious improvement in transparency is an added bonus.
My previous set up consisted of a Rane AC23 in conjunction with a balanced two channel volume control by SM Pro. This system actually sounded very good however the problem area with this design was an economical yet high quality approach to converting the unbalanced source signal into the balanced inputs of the Rane. A straight passive iso transformer produced the best sonic results however the signal needed the proper line driver to bring the domestic level of up to the professional level that the Rane wanted to see. I was looking at spending up to 300$ for a decent stereo active di. I decided to sell the lot and go for the more purist approach with the modified dcx. When comparing the sonic characteristics of the analog active vs the digital active system I would say that the strongest improvements in the dcx is improved transient performance, greater bass extension and improved transparency.
This is not by any means a simple device to use and it is almost mandatory that the purchaser research the miriad of processing functions very carefully before using the unit. Functions such as driver delay, crossover slope types and equalization were all included with the professional engineer in mind. Correct driver delay produced the most significant improvement in musicality and integration between the drivers. This is extremely difficult to do by ear. Professionally I am a sound engineer, and even though i don't have the necessary equipment to align driver delay I do have the experience to adjust the delay parameters by ear.
As for the sound of the DAC's, so far the sound seems to be quite fine. I am however tempted to embark on the chip upgrade to the AKM 4596 purely because of the number of endorsements on quality over the 4593. The designer Jan Didden and the supplier Pilgham Audio both endorse the uprgade. My only issue is where to get the chip installation done here in Melbourne and how much it will cost. I'm not about to spend another three hundred bucks on the device when I'm already happy.
If somebody out there could recommend a tech who routinely does chip upgrades I would be very grateful. I know that I can source the chips from Pilgham audio but it would be great if I could buy such a small quantity locally and just get them cheaply installed.
I might also ad that I have just had my carpets removed and floor boards polished. Our house is also more sparsely decorated than before. I have a very bright sounding environment and I don't think I can make any final conclusions about the DAC performance till I get my listening environment right with some floor rugs and pictures to absorb some of the reflections.
Thanks
George

#21 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:09 AM

Hi George,

Welcome to sna,, and thanks for your feedback about the moded DCX!! I too had a lot more going on in the signal chain, but now with these Pilgham audio mods, I now only have source -> DCX -> amps.
Interesting you comment on the driver delay having the most impact,, as this is one setting I haven't played with (yet), perhaps I need to revisit this and see if I too can achieve more improvements!!

I too am looking for someone to install the DAC chips. I have the AK4396's (from Pilgham audio) but even though I'm quite handy with the iron, this job is too small for me. So if you find someone to do it, pleas let me know too..

Cheers..
Murphy

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#22 Nigel

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:54 AM

Hey Cyber, up at Bathurst listening to Terry's excellent system, he swears by time alignment. I think you need some software to measure how long pulses take from each driver to reach the listening position, then you can plug the results into the dcx. Terry's DEQX does all that, but they are signif more expensive. Terry uses 2 DEQXs in his 5 way system (3 subs spread around the room).
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#23 Paul Spencer

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 12:22 PM

DCX has time alignment built in. It sends out pulses then assigns the correct delay. Easy to do and I've found it makes quite a difference. I also managed to compensate for sitting closer to one speaker and adjust the image back to the middle.

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#24 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 12:53 PM

Seems like I need to learn more about time alignment!!
Thanks guys..

But if it requires input C on the DCX to be used with a mic, forget it.. The Pilgham audio mods removes input C!! (I dont think input A+B on the DCX can be used for the mic).. Hmmm,, I could plug the original i/o board back in, perform the alignment, then put the new i/o back in :D

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#25 Nigel

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 02:16 PM

Seems like I need to learn more about time alignment!!
Thanks guys..

But if it requires input C on the DCX to be used with a mic, forget it.. The Pilgham audio mods removes input C!! (I dont think input A+B on the DCX can be used for the mic).. Hmmm,, I could plug the original i/o board back in, perform the alignment, then put the new i/o back in :D

Might haveta....but if you have a mic and computer setup there is probably some freewre that will do it.. (REW?)
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#26 Paul Spencer

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 02:21 PM

You need input C - seems crazy to get rid of an input that is so critical for one of the main features!

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#27 Paul Spencer

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 02:34 PM

Nigel,
You could probably do it with impulse response measurements individually for each channel. You look at the time window on the x axis and compensate for differences in the first peak for each channel. You would see how much delay is needed in ms. DCX will also invert polarity if needed.

George,
How are you time aligning by ear?

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#28 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 03:03 PM

It will easy enough to plug the stock i/o board in if needed, then revert back to upgraded i/o.. Input C is not used in normal operation anyway,, well I've never used it and I've had a DCX for years... I like the way it is because what used to be the Input C connector is now the dedicated digital input, so you can have both analog and digital sources plugged in and just toggle inputs from the setup menu..

Cheers..

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#29 georgepapa

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:10 PM

There is a relatively easy way to time align on the dcx. Get out your ruler and measure in millimetres the exact distance from the speaker gasket to the top plate of the magnet, just where the voice coil starts. This is on the woofer. Now perform the same measurement on the midrange. If the woofers voice coil is say 150mm from the baffle and the mids voice coil is 50mm from the baffle, the mid must then be delayed by 100mm to be in alignment. Dome tweeters are easy because the voice coil is flush with the baffle. In this case a dome tweeter will have to be delayed by 150mm.
Fortunately the dcx's time delay window displays the relationship between distance and time delay. You shouldn't have to pull your speakers apart to take these measurements. You can usually find the information on the net.
George

#30 georgepapa

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:18 PM

I time align by ear firstly by measuring the distance between the driver voice coils and entering a rough alignment point. I have a loop recorded onto cd with a constant snare drum hit. There's a certain point of delay particularly between bass and mid that when it's right really sounds like the drivers disappear and the impact of the snare seems to come from top to bottom of the speaker.
You can actually go mad doing this.

#31 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:20 PM

There is a relatively easy way to time align on the dcx. Get out your ruler and measure in millimetres the exact distance from the speaker gasket to the top plate of the magnet, just where the voice coil starts. This is on the woofer. Now perform the same measurement on the midrange. If the woofers voice coil is say 150mm from the baffle and the mids voice coil is 50mm from the baffle, the mid must then be delayed by 100mm to be in alignment. Dome tweeters are easy because the voice coil is flush with the baffle. In this case a dome tweeter will have to be delayed by 150mm.
Fortunately the dcx's time delay window displays the relationship between distance and time delay. You shouldn't have to pull your speakers apart to take these measurements. You can usually find the information on the net.
George


Hmmm interesting.. Thanks for the tip George..
Might have to give that a go when time allows..

Found anyone in Melb who can solder those DAC chips yet :D

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#32 georgepapa

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:25 PM

Hi Murphy
Recently had a talk with Dallas at Clark Audio in Glen Waverley.http://www.clarkeaudio.com/
He will install the chips though he is very particular about what he puts his name to. Listened to Kind of Blue by Miles Davis on my modded dcx. Sounded superb! Don't think I could be bothered with the chip swap.

#33 Paul Spencer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:36 PM

You can actually go mad doing this.


I don't doubt it!

What I like about the auto align is that it allows for crossover effects. You can't always be sure the acoustic centre is where you think it is and things like waveguides and horns can shift the acoustic centre forward (apparently). So you might add a waveguide thinking you've now perfectly time aligned the tweeter physically, but actually you haven't quite done it. That would be a pest.

I'm currently using the time align settings that DCX came up with. I'm not totally sure I trust the result, so I will go back and measure and see what I come up with.

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#34 Nigel

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:42 PM

Hey Cyber, just noticed your avatar.
You really do love your new dcx.....
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#35 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:54 PM

Hi Murphy
Recently had a talk with Dallas at Clark Audio in Glen Waverley.http://www.clarkeaudio.com/
He will install the chips though he is very particular about what he puts his name to. Listened to Kind of Blue by Miles Davis on my modded dcx. Sounded superb! Don't think I could be bothered with the chip swap.


Ok great,, does that mean i can contact them?? Or should I wait for you to give 'the go ahead'!!

I too was really happy with the sounds of the Pilgham audio mods that I decided to forget about the DAC chips as well,,, but seeing that you mentioned them in your first post, I jumped on the band wagon :-)


Nigel: I've had "fully-modded" in my sig for ages, have you only just noticed it?? Yes, i do love my DCX now, I actually always did,, but I'm a bit nervous about this gtg,, wondering if others might think it's crap :-O

BTW: how do you double quote from 2 different posts in the one reply??

Cheers..

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#36 Paul Spencer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:34 PM

Murphy,

What does the remote do?

Multi quote - right click on "reply with quote" and open in a new window, then cut and paste. Or just copy the text and click the quote button.

this is the easy way with cut and paste


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#37 Nigel

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:37 PM

The hard part for your comparo is the time taken to swap devices, but I'm confident the modded one will be an improvement in every regard, clarity, soundstage, bass, dynamics, umm...that'll do.
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#38 Paul Spencer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:19 PM

Nigel, I'm pretty determined to do instant switching. I'd like to do that first. We could do blind testing and sighted testing as well. I'll have to figure it all out before the day with some flexibility with how far we go.

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#39 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for the multi quoting tip!!

The remote control is used to interface with the CS3318. It's a digitally driven analog volume control.

The remote provides the means to adjust analog input level, master volume, turn i/o board on/off (standby), mute, balance, Low output (output 1&2), Hi output (output 5&6).. It also gives the ability to save and recall custom volume settings in memory. The idea is that you leave all gains on the DCX at 0dB and use the CS3318 for level control..

I must admit, apart from the improvement to the sonics, I actually think the best part of these mods is the remote control feature,, it's so handy to me!! I was able to eliminate devices from the signal chain, bypass the preamp on my SC Ultra LD, and leave my amps at 0dB (max volume) all because of the pre-amp & remote feature of the CS3318..

By the way, I'm glad you mentioned the remote for 2 reasons:
1) You cant use the DCX without it. When you power on the DCX the default setting of the CS3318 is OFF..
2) To fully utilise the seperate "Hi" "Low" level control, the DCX setup needs to be LL MM HH. Well, it can be anything as long as the left and right stereo channels appear on outputs 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, respectively.. (hope that makes sense??)

Cheers..

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#40 georgepapa

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 11:04 AM

Think I might let someone else take the plunge at this stage. Judging from the Clark Audio website the chip swap would be very much in line with his general modification work. When I discussed the mod with Dallas he was at first very reluctant to work on anything that had already been modded. When I explained that the chip swap was directly endorsed by the manufacturer (AKM) he softened somewhat. If I where to do the mod I would remove the DSP board and just take that to him for the chip swap. I think that would save you abit on labor. At this stage I don't have the replacement chips and with the exception of Pilgham audio wouldn't have a clue where to source them is small quantities.
George

#41 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 11:31 AM

Think I might let someone else take the plunge at this stage. Judging from the Clark Audio website the chip swap would be very much in line with his general modification work. When I discussed the mod with Dallas he was at first very reluctant to work on anything that had already been modded. When I explained that the chip swap was directly endorsed by the manufacturer (AKM) he softened somewhat. If I where to do the mod I would remove the DSP board and just take that to him for the chip swap. I think that would save you abit on labor. At this stage I don't have the replacement chips and with the exception of Pilgham audio wouldn't have a clue where to source them is small quantities.
George


Thanks.. Yeah I would only take the DSP board to someone and not the whole unit.. I purchased the chips from Pilgham audio as part of complete upgrade kits, apart from that I wouldn't know where to get them either. But I do know they're "rare as hens teeth" (to quote from another forum) , and that Pilgham haven't got too many left,, so you could just get 3 of them and work out how to get them replaced later,, a bit like I'm doing..

Cheers..

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#42 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 02:32 PM

I thought to resurrect this old thread of mine to include the 'final stage' of upgrades!

This was to replace the stock DAC chips (AKM-4393's) with their (better??) big brother, the AKM-4396!



For a long time I figured that soldering an smd chip with 0.65mm Pitch was beyond the conventional soldering iron,, so I put the DAC chips away thinking that one day I will pay a 'professional' to do the job..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32267[/ATTACH]


Well,, in light of completeting my Class A project, and wanting to squeeze more out of my gear (in true DIY fashion!) I re-visited the notion of installing the 4396's!!

I bought a "Chip Quick" SMD removal kit, watched a few clips on Youtube, and started practising on an old PC ram stick that had memory chips on it with a 0.65mm pitch :thumb:

Using that low temperature solder was like magic,, the solder stays melted for such a long time,, the chip literally floats away from the board then you pick it up with tweezers, EASY!! (Luckily the chips weren't glued on the board like sometimes happens!)..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32266[/ATTACH]

After a good clean, and using a good magnifier, I put down a heap of flux paste and positioned the chip. The paste helps keep the chip in position, then it's a matter of tacking down opposite corners. Then I just flowed solder over the entire pins, having the flux paste helps the solder flow really quickly and thoroughly away from the iron and onto the pins.. Then you just 'wick away' excess solder with solder braid.. I used a printer's eye glass for ultra close inspection and made sure no pins were still bridged..


[ATTACH=CONFIG]32268[/ATTACH]


I tested all 6 channels and it worked perfectly!! More thorough listening analysis to come down the track :)

Cheers,
CM

Attached Files


Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's


#43 Paul Spencer

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 03:04 PM

You're a brave man! Well done.

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#44 Nigel

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 03:41 PM

I agree with Paul.
Comparison will be difficult , n'est-ce pas ? Trying to remember what the old chips sounded like ....
If the US govt can force Coca Cola off the market until they removed cocaine from their product,
then govts can do the same to cigarette companies who add nicotine to their product.
Raising revenue is not an excuse for allowing manufacturers to use addiction to sell product.
Imagine the public outrage if supermarkets put addictive chemicals in meat or vegetables.

#45 Cyber_Murphy

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 04:01 PM

Yes very true Nigel..

I actually thought about replacing only 1 chip that way we could do a real time comparison :) But I figured it's always so subjective anyway,, so my aim is really just to share the technical process and techniques from a DIY project point of view,, not so much the end result..

I'm just wrapped that I was able to install 28 pin VSOP (0.65mm) chips myself!! :thumb:

Of course, I will however in the next day or so share my 'listening' experience as well..

CM

Main rig: Squeezebox Touch (with TT3.0) -> Audio Gd DI-DSP -> HiFi MeDIY Direct-Out DAC -> Pass Aleph Single-ended Class A Preamp (DIY) -> SC Class A mono-blocks  -> Usher S520's
Alternate: DCX2496 (Fully Modified) -> SC ULD-MK1, modified into mono-blocks

Headphone rig: Millet Mini-Max -> AKG-701's