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Help with speaker choice, Sonique, VAF, Focal...


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Thanks guys for some good suggestions, at the moment they are about a foot in front of the wall, i will move them forward a bit to be in line with the TV stand, that will bring them about 2ft from the wall.

Question, should the speakers be turned in (toe'd) to face the centre listening position as per the pictures or facing straight towards the back of the room? I sit about 2m directly in the centre of the two speakers on a couch - they are currently at perfect ear level...

Distance from the side walls is about 1.5m on one side and about 2.5 on the other and unfortunately thats not negotiable as thats how the rest of the room lines up - couches and so forth :)

Btw the boomyness in the midrange has almost gone away now (not sure if i mentioned that in the first post) that they have been played for several hours, it was just an initial thing when I first fired them up :)

Thanks for all the advice, interested in all the advice i can get :)

Drew

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Just try some experimentation as far as toe in is concerned to find what you like best. I know Philip Vafiadis prefers his speakers to be toed in to completely face you, whereas I prefer my VAFs to be toed in a little bit, but not completely facing me.

You should find more improvements with the speakers after 30-40 hours.

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Drew,

My i91s respond dramatically to different placements. To the extent that my preference is totally unpalatable to the rest of the household. That is one of them sits in the middle of a doorway. I have found them even more critical as my sources have improved. Experiment mate, they dont weigh much. I just make sure everything is back in order before the hordes arrive home:).

Cheers

RR

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Guest VladimirFreddie
Well done Drew and a good choice. Can I echo Grumpy's senitments and suggest you play around A LOT with speaker positioning. Cheapest upgrade you will ever get once you nail the right position.

EDIT.............as a rough guide.......distance off back wall affects bass, distance off side wall affects soundstage and smearing and toe in will affect imaging the most.

+1 totally agree with you there.

Sadly I still have to wait til the end of next week for VAF to ley me have my pair of I-91s!

Cheers

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Vlad I will be interested to hear your feedback when you get your I91's...

I experimented a bit last night, i bought them forward to being about 1 foot from the rear wall, and they sounded alot better than when they were half a foot from the wall. I then bought them about 1.5 and then 2ft from the wall but they sounded best at about 1ft... they lost bass impact the further they went from the wall, i suppose being front ported means they can operate reasonably well near the wall..

My second experiment was to face them straight forward, lost a bit of the 'stereo image' so to speak doing this but it also tamed the mids and treble a bit... i settled on a position with about half the amount of toe-in that I originally had, one side of the front of the base of the stand is 50cm from the wall, the other is 55cm... They are sounding great, im sure that over the next few hours there will be more tweaking to be done as the speakers continue to 'run in' :P

Oh and as per what was said in an earlier post, im now starting to realise some of the deficiency in the Yamaha SW-800 sub, although its got a reasonably good amount of power, the bass doesn't feel as 'refined' as the I91's.... hmmm

Thanks for your comments and help everyone...

Drew

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Guest VladimirFreddie
Vlad I will be interested to hear your feedback when you get your I91's...

I experimented a bit last night, i bought them forward to being about 1 foot from the rear wall, and they sounded alot better than when they were half a foot from the wall. I then bought them about 1.5 and then 2ft from the wall but they sounded best at about 1ft... they lost bass impact the further they went from the wall, i suppose being front ported means they can operate reasonably well near the wall..

My second experiment was to face them straight forward, lost a bit of the 'stereo image' so to speak doing this but it also tamed the mids and treble a bit... i settled on a position with about half the amount of toe-in that I originally had, one side of the front of the base of the stand is 50cm from the wall, the other is 55cm... They are sounding great, im sure that over the next few hours there will be more tweaking to be done as the speakers continue to 'run in' :)

Oh and as per what was said in an earlier post, im now starting to realise some of the deficiency in the Yamaha SW-800 sub, although its got a reasonably good amount of power, the bass doesn't feel as 'refined' as the I91's.... hmmm

Thanks for your comments and help everyone...

Drew

Hi Drew,

What works best for you is all that matters. You may well find that what you're happy with now changes over a week or so.

But I would try turning the sub off while trying to find the best position for them just to minimise variables - but this is just me!

When I move speakers I tend to leave them there for a week or so before changing them again. This way you get to hear them with a wide variety of music and get a more balanced picture of they are performing. Whenever I move speakers I tend to find the positives fairly quickly but after a while I find faults!! I am very fussy & have changed positioning & my seated position again after listening to some I-66s at vaf and this is after experimenting for 10 years in the current room!

A good rule of thumb is to have them at a different distances as possible from each wall. eg no multiples either & eg don't have them 50cm from one wall and 1m from another. I go a step further; my Duntechs bottom woofer is 65cm from the floor. So I have them 1m out from the front wall & 80cm from the side - so all are as different as possible as I can get in my room! The reason you want them different distances is that different room modes are excited so it tends to have a smoother response in the bass. As well as listening I also use a stereophile test CD & SPL meter & spreadsheet so I can graph it all. :P

Also where you sit makes a huge difference to the bass & imaging. Experiment with this if you can as well.

As for my where I put my I-91s I may not be too much help for you :P I will try them out the front, but I've bought mine for total overkill as rear channel speakers!!

Yes I may be totally insane!

Cheers

Dave

Edited by VladimirFreddie
can't spell
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Hi All,

Thanks for an excellent report on your findings. I'm also in the market for a new pair of speakers and after listening to the VAF DC-X Gen4 MkII, I thought my decision was made, especially since the wife gave me the thumbs up too...:rolleyes: I was planning on audition a few more speakers just to confirm my decision.

However after reading this post, I'm not sure if I should even bother with the DC-X's anymore and go straight to the I-91's... Sounds like Drew and Vlad are very happy with theirs, so I will need to go an audition them now!! Thx, just another couple of hours lost time doing a gerat thing... I love it.:D

I will still go and audition the Diamonds 650 SE (hey Drew did you listen to the SE or just plain 650?, I believe there's suppose to be a big difference between the 2, not sure though) and a few more speakers.

I have discounted the following all due to different reasons and this is not in order of dislike.

B&W DM683 and 684

Krix Harmonix and Neuphonix (although I did like the Neuphonix, they had a lot of control, but they were just a little 'dull' for me)

Aaron ATS-5

If anyone thinks of any other recomendations they would be most appreciated.

Cheers.

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Guest VladimirFreddie
Hi All,......................

I will still go and audition the Diamonds 650 SE (hey Drew did you listen to the SE or just plain 650?, I believe there's suppose to be a big difference between the 2, not sure though) and a few more speakers.

...............................

Cheers.

Yes I think the Sonique 650SE should definitely be on your audition list. They weren't on mine because my lovely wife didn't want floorstanders at the rear of the room. If always kicked myself for trading-in my Sonique 6.5s several years ago when I bought the Duntechs - if only I'd kept them to use as rears for later on!!

Also as the the 650SE are floor-standers you'll be saving the costs of stands for the I-91s. But I haven't heard a Sonique speaker for several years (apart from my SAV-1 which are rears ATM) so I can't vouch for them - but auditioning them is a good idea.

BTW I haven't got my VAF I-91s yet - but I can't wait - should have them later this week

Cheers

Dave

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Hi Dadstoblame,

I did listen to the 650SE edition, I really liked them but found they were lacking a bit in the bottom end for what I wanted. The VAF I91's with stands came in about 1 grand cheaper than the 650SE as well. I just found something was missing with the Sonique's.... they lacked a bit of re-enforcement which I was after...

What I love about the I91 is that the bass response is awesome for a stand mount... they have the clean high's that I love, defined midrange and great bass.... combined with the sub they are awesome...

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Gday astormsau,

Yes I am using Lovan stands, dont know what model though sorry. 90 cm high if I recall correctly. Yes they are filled with sand. Made quite a change when I did it too.

Enjoying yours I hope.

Cheers

RR

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Going well, Yes I use the same height and design stands. I filled them with sand last week and found it made quite a positive difference. These speakers just keep getting better...

What sort of amplification do you run with your I91's?

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Going well, Yes I use the same height and design stands. I filled them with sand last week and found it made quite a positive difference. These speakers just keep getting better...

What sort of amplification do you run with your I91's?

Nothing too fancy. CA640. On rare occasions I crave more grunt but that will have to wait for a while.

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Hi Rural,

Holly molly you are a rural! In SA... LOL.. TRX 850 Nice bike (why did Yam stop making them!), Triumph even better...... Mine ZZR 250, CBR 600F, VTR 1000F...

I liked the efoort you go to, to get your sound stage right... And make sure you fix it before the hordes get home.. Too funny.

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Dadstoblame, let us know once you have checked out the I91's, I will be interested to hear your impressions esp compared to the Diamond 650 as the I91, DC-X and Diamond 650's were my contenders...

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Hi Rural,

Holly molly you are a rural! In SA... LOL.. TRX 850 Nice bike (why did Yam stop making them!), Triumph even better...... Mine ZZR 250, CBR 600F, VTR 1000F...

I liked the efoort you go to, to get your sound stage right... And make sure you fix it before the hordes get home.. Too funny.

Gday Dadstoblame,

Regards the bikes,

TRiXies are really nice. This is my second one, as to why Yamaha still dont do something similar I have no idea. I have had many a long conversation with my dealer and local distributor about this. About a month ago I quizzed them about the possiblility of using the new Super Tenere engine in a TRX style roadie. 1200cc fuel injected twin based on the current TDM900 engine. Nothing on the horizon apparently. Also race a KTM 200EXC and one day hopefully restore my old KDX200 back to its former glory.

Back on topic. I do like to try to get the most I can out of the audio gear I own hence the soundstage efforts. Refer http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/23973-Some-new-toys for findings once I replaced my CDP.

Cheers

RR

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Gday Dadstoblame,

Regards the bikes,

TRiXies are really nice. This is my second one, as to why Yamaha still dont do something similar I have no idea. I have had many a long conversation with my dealer and local distributor about this. About a month ago I quizzed them about the possiblility of using the new Super Tenere engine in a TRX style roadie. 1200cc fuel injected twin based on the current TDM900 engine. Nothing on the horizon apparently. Also race a KTM 200EXC and one day hopefully restore my old KDX200 back to its former glory.

Back on topic. I do like to try to get the most I can out of the audio gear I own hence the soundstage efforts. Refer http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/23973-Some-new-toys for findings once I replaced my CDP.

Cheers

RR

I've had a couple of KDX200's, the last one I did up to BTX Race specs and it was super quick for a 200. I raced it in Open Class Enduro at Club level against 600's, it was a competitive bike and virtually indestructable. I also raced a few converted MX'ers but always preferred the KDX as it just did everything so well. I've owned a few road bikes and ridden a mates TRX850 and loved it, in fact I almost bought one.

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I've had a couple of KDX200's, the last one I did up to BTX Race specs and it was super quick for a 200. I raced it in Open Class Enduro at Club level against 600's, it was a competitive bike and virtually indestructable. I also raced a few converted MX'ers but always preferred the KDX as it just did everything so well. I've owned a few road bikes and ridden a mates TRX850 and loved it, in fact I almost bought one.

Sorry getting off topic again. My existing KDX is an '86, bought it to do the 4 day in '86 then flog it off (hmm, that plan went astray somewhere). I also own an '84. The one I have now I won a state title on so it has since been a plan to restore and keep but it is in very bad shape...one day.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

Bit of an update for those interested... I gave the speakers a few weeks to 'run in' and over that time the sound gradually got better. Although I have been pretty happy with the sound, it just never seemed to have the wow factor I heard in the store, this has sent me a bit of a mission looking for a decent second hand power amp of which I am yet to decide on. One afternoon I was sitting in my lounge and decided it would be a good idea to try bi-amping the speakers using the receiver.

I run a Marantz 7002 receiver, its rated about 110w per channel. I only drive the 2 VAF speakers off the receiver, it has a mode where I can use channels 6 and 7 to bi-amp the fronts. I have heard criticism of this method in the past because effectively you are using the same power supply so therefore still subject to limitations when things get pushed to the limit. My logic is that this AVR is designed to run 7 channels at once, so going from 2 to 4 channels shouldn't really stress out the power supply.

So I grabbed some older cable and connected up the additional 2 channels and removed the bridging at the speaker posts - and im quite glad that I did. The change to the sound was quite dramatic, much broader sound stage, more focused vocals, less feeling of strain at louder volumes and generally a feeling that the sound is crisper.

I have since gone out and upgraded the original cable which was Chord Carnival Classic and some older JB hifi bog standard cable (used for the 2nd channel to each speaker) to Chord Carnival Silverscreen 4 core cable which bought about a further increase in the clarity of the sound.

So in my experience I have found with my setup where I only use 2 speakers, that bi-amping has made a dramatic difference and upgrading the quality of the cables from amp to speaker has also made quite a difference, all in all an exercise much cheaper than an investment in a power amp.

Drew

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Guest VladimirFreddie

Cool. Sounds like a good idea. I can certainly see your logic in biamping - especially when using only 4 channels of the receiver!

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