How to evolve to valve?

[hired goon]

G'day,

So I want that lush valve sound without the woolly bass, but what's the best way of getting it?

Can I get away with a valve pre-amp and a solid-state amp? What do I miss out on if I don't use a valve amp? Note that my current speakers are 3 ohm, and I may upgrade to speakers with even worse impedance (but better sensitivity). I'm thinking that a valve pre-amp coupled with my ME550-II might be a good combination, although I'm not sure what sort of pre-amp to get (a Supratek Chardonnay sure would be nice...)

My current CD player (Rotel RCD-1072) is not smooth enough for my liking, and I'm looking at upgrading. Would I need a valve CD player if I already have a valve pre-amp, or are they required only when there is no other valve gear in the chain?

--Geoff

[dlite]

Geoff,
First I must declare a bias here because I sell them, but the Belcanto Dac2 has a lovely sweet sound and the bass is nice and tight. http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_dac2.html#

I have replaced my Wadia player with a DAC2t (which is also for sale). If you are interested and live in Sydney I could arrange a loan of a DAC2.

[mondie]

There is no easy answer Geoff. From my personal experience l have gone from SS pre and power to valve pre/SS power to Valve pre/hybrid power to Valve Pre/SS power to passive TVC Pre/SS Power. Along the way the one constant has been my valve Audio Note DAC which has been modified heavily several times and is about to be again. What l have now is by far the best my system has sounded, thats why its hard to directy answer your question.

Its all about synergy and system matching rather than what amplification device you choose specifically. My system is awesome with the TVC pre but only because its well matched with a very high gain DAC and a forgiving SS amp with efficent speakers. The wrong DAC or amp and it would be cold and hard just as others who have tried the TVC pre have reported. By eliminating the active pre l have made the analouge output stage in my DAC an even more key component in my system. AN's philosophy is that this stage is critical hence why it uses so many expensive components and a pair of valves in the output stage, to maximise performance in the analogue domain, just not the digital as a lot manufacturers do. The mods l have done take it to another level.

It really is a jouney of experimentation and learning what works for your system and musical tastes and listening preferences.

BTW my pre prior to the TVC was a Supratek, very nice pre but in my system trounced by the passive.

Good luck :)

[hired goon]

G'day,


Originally posted by dlite
First I must declare a bias here because I sell them, but the Belcanto Dac2 has a lovely sweet sound and the bass is nice and tight. *http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_dac2.html#

So you're saying that adding a suitable DAC will get the valve sound that I'm looking for, so that I don't need a valve pre-amp/amp at all?

What does a DAC2 go for these days, and how does the DAC2 compare to the Benchmark DAC1, for example?

Then again, I could just get the Musical Fidelity tube buffer :p


Originally posted by Mondie
Its all about synergy and system matching rather than what amplification device you choose specifically

There's so many permutations of {speakers,pre-amp,amp,CD player,DAC} that I find it difficult to decide on any one component any more. I know the sound I want to get, but not how to achieve (or even afford) it. You mention that the valve-output Audio Note DAC, which is something that did not occur to me (though I was thinking about a valve output CD player so a valve-output DAC is logical I guess).

Now I'm more confused now about what to get than when I started :(

--Geoff

[Leporello]

Hi Geoff!

Mondie's absolutely right, synergy is THE one most important parameter in making the move toward the *valve sound* IME.

My two valve monoblock amps. ( KT 88 x 4 each), sound their best with a passive Creek preamp.

If I add the Audio Research LS2 ( hybrid preamp), the sound gets somewhat richer but, coloured as well, too much for the type of Music I listen to.

This is not the case though, if I use the Meridian 556 S.S. power amp.

Then, the LS 2 really shines while the passive alternative produces a sound that's kind of 'dry' and tiring in the long run.

My point here is, there's no absolute guidelines, really a case of trial and error, and the best course of action would be, IMHO, to seek the help of a good Audio dealer.

He will quickly establish the kind of sound you like, and advise you ( and demo ) from there.

Most dealers will let you listen to demo equipment in your own home, once they get to know you.

Best

Arthur

[dlite]

Originally posted by hired goon+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hired goon)</div>
G'day,
So you're saying that adding a suitable DAC will get the valve sound that I'm looking for, so that I don't need a valve pre-amp/amp at all? [/b]
Hi Geoff,
I guess what I am suggesting is that the analog/musical/smooth sound you appear to be after can be had with the right combination of components. This may or may not involve the use of tubes. You don't mention what speakers you propose to buy, this will have a big influence on the sound of your system. In you case I expect the Rotel contributes to the problem, but I also find ME amps to be a little dry and clinical sounding, although they have fantastic detail and transparency.


Originally posted by hired goon@
What does a DAC2 go for these days, and how does the DAC2 compare to the Benchmark DAC1, for example? *

Then again, I could just get the Musical Fidelity tube buffer :p
I sell the Belcanto Dac2 for $1550 (rrp$1900). The DAC2 has often been compared with the Benchmark as being one of the best value for money dacs around. They are however 2 very different DACs sound wise. The DAC2 has the smooth musical sound, whereas the benchmark has that detailed clinical sound much like your ME amp. I would suggest that the benchmark would be moving in the wrong direction for the sound you are after. I can offer the DAC2 with full money back if you return it if you want a loan or if you are in Sydney I can drop it off for a short audition.

<!--QuoteBegin-hired goon
There's so many permutations of {speakers,pre-amp,amp,CD player,DAC} that I find it difficult to decide on any one component any more. I know the sound I want to get, but not how to achieve (or even afford) it. You mention that the valve-output Audio Note DAC, which is something that did not occur to me (though I was thinking about a valve output CD player so a valve-output DAC is logical I guess).

Now I'm more confused now about what to get than when I started :(

--Geoff

I know what you are going through I have spent the last few years juggling components to try and get the sound I am after, including the Musical Fidelity Trivista tube dac ($5000) which I was disappointed with and I would say it leaned on the clinical rather than musical smooth side, so try and get a home audition of anything you want to buy. The MF tube buffer may give you what you need but I would view it as a short term rather than long term solution.