Classical Music Fans!

[Keith_W]

OK I can't be the only classical music guy around here. I think I count Mr_Gimlet and mustud52 among the other classical music fans. But Mr_Gimlet likes all that pre-baroque stuff and it appears that his musical taste does not extend beyond the 17th century :p As for mustud ... at least he likes Mahler :)

Are there any other fans here?

[davidsss]

I'm trying ;)

It will take a while to really get a classical collection together and discover what I like but you gotta start somewhere.

DS

[Drizt]

-1 vote.

[Tony C]

Kieth W. How about LLibre Vermell De Monserrat 10th century forward. Franz Biber 16th century. I have about 300 classisal/ Opera in my collection. Although I am no authority on the subject. Beethoven/Bach/Brahms/Chopin/Dvorak/DebussyGrieg/Sibelius/Stravinsky/ Gorechi/Respighi/Mozart/Liszt/Saint-Seans/Tchiakosky/Holtz/ Ravel/Vivaldi/ Many others if you happen to et to this side of town. Some real treats from Russia Box sets of some of the ballets etc. Tony C

[Young Skywalker]

Count me among the classical music lovers Keith. Favourites are Mahler, Richard Strauss, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich, Beethoven, Ravel, Albeniz, Dvorak, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Stravinsky, and Mussorgsky. I find that Mozart appeals more to the head than the heart and tend to gravitate towards the extremely melancholy or fiery and passionate pieces from Russian, German and French composers.

Edit: I should also include Grieg, Sibelius, Brahms and Liszt in this.... errrr, list. :wacko:

Aaron

[Tony C]

There have been some attempts to popularise Classical music over the years. The tackiest was Hooked on Classics back in the early eighties with a synthesised drum beat through it. Does anyone remember that? Disney have had issues like Fantasia with classical music throughout, and Telarc had music in their catelogue from movie themes etc which are full of classical music. I remember getting into Grieg from an old Qantas commercial, and Carl Orff's Carmina Burana from a Conan the Barbarian movie.

[Keith_W]

Sounds as if everyone has listed Beethoven among their favourites. His symphonies were one of my earliest music discoveries - became acquainted with them when I was 9 years old, and 26 years later i'm still trying to find the best boxed set. On CD, I have all 9 symphonies in a boxed set by: Karajan 1963, Harnoncourt, Abbado, and Walter. As well as individual symphonies by Kleiber, Furtwangler, Klemperer, Bohm, and Szell. All of them have one problem or another, and I have not found a perfect boxed set yet.

I find myself enjoying Furtwangler's performance the most - he gives a very dynamic and intense reading. However, all my recordings are second rate at best (and most are third rate recordings). And Furtwangler can be rather fatiguing. Listening to Furtwangler can be an uncomfortable experience because he is 11/10 most of the time. And those ancient mono recordings, with the rolled off bass and the excessive treble is just painful on the ears.

This is why I like the Abbado. He is more outrightly musical than either Karajan or Furtwangler, and the recording is also very good. But he is no match for the excitement of Kleiber. I have Kleiber's 7th, and it is the most exuberant 7th of all.

Bohm, Szell, and Walter - all disappointing ... considering that all 3 of them are supposed to be master Beethoven interpreters. I have heard that Walter's lyricism tends to grow on you but after multiple listens I still find that he does not rise above any of the others. My experience with Walter on Mahler is the same. Apart from his electrifying performance of Mahler's 9th in 1938, I have not found that any of his other Mahler recordings particularly worthwhile. Bohm is particularly soporific. Yes, beautiful tone and all that ... but, ZZZZZZZZZZ.

Klemperer is a conductor I have always had time for. Magesterial, slow, considered, and grand. This kind of approach works for some things, but the 7th? I'm afraid that the Kleiber kills him and leaves the rest of them for dead.

Karajan is the conductor named by most as their favourite Beethoven conductor. I have owned the 1963 Karajan set in one way or another since I was 13 - first on cassette, then on LP, then on CD. My first boxed CD set got lost, so I bought another. I have to keep this in my collection to remind me how much my taste has changed since I was a young kid. I used to love his tempo and sense of rhythm, but now I find him mechanical and militaristic. Still, my Karajan gets a regular airing. Amazing to think that I still listen to Karajan regularly after over 20 years, even though he is no longer my favourite.

I think overall the best boxed set is the Abbado. And the guy I wish completed a boxed set would be Kleiber.

Forgive the rambling ... it's a red wine induced opinion. And i've spent the evening listening to Bach.

[Tony C]

Can't beat Bach's Brandenburg Concerto's in a dimmly lit room late at night to relax to.(YoYo Ma) He did some wonderful cello Concerto's. Chopin's Nocturnes enjoyable late evening too.

[Young Skywalker]

Keith,

I agree with you that Kleiber has the best Beethoven 7th, by far! The best recording of the 9th that I have encountered is Solti conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Chorus on MFSL 2-516 (double vinyl). For a good Mahler 6 check out Barbirolli conducting the New Philharmonia Orchestra on EMI Classics CD (7243 5 6925 2 9), the tempo is very slow in parts but it is generally appropriate. I have a lot of Mahler conducted by Lenny Bernstein and there are a few flashes of brilliance here and there.

Enjoy,

Aaron

[Kevin]

"Classical music"

First vinyl album I bought was I Musici playing the Four Seasons, first cd was the Bach B minor mass. Dragged up on classical music and would be approx. 2/3 of our cd collection. Oldest bit of ascribed music would be Perotin of Notre Dame (twelth century) and newest would be" On the transmigration of souls" , John Adams. Listen to most everything in between but I still do not get Wagner operas or the more excessive indulgences of atonal music.

In terms of most played would be Bach with the Goldberg Variations, Cello Suites (I see Rostropovich died the other day) and cantatas receiving the most playing time.

Beethoven boxed sets - depends on mood for interpretation. The older I have got the more I have favoured live recordings and to that end I am curious about the LSO live series which has recently completed a critically acclaimed Beethoven cycle.

Kevin

[Keith_W]

Beethoven boxed sets - depends on mood for interpretation. The older I have got the more I have favoured live recordings and to that end I am curious about the LSO live series which has recently completed a critically acclaimed Beethoven cycle.[/b]

If you are talking about this recording (http://www.sa-cd.net/search/beethoven+haitink) then I have this to say - that's the last time I listen to the bloody critics! If I am allowed to make a gross generalization here, the Germans can do Beethoven, the Austrians can do Beethoven, even the Americans, Russians and the Czechs can do Beethoven. But the English? They seem to lack that uncouth snarl, and sound oddly anaemic when trying to project Beethoven's lofty ideals. Oh - the Pastoral symphony in this boxed set is very nice :)

Aaron thanks for the suggestion, i'll go find the Barbirolli recording of the 9th. How would you compare it to the Furtwangler or the Karajan? I still believe that there is no recording of the 9th which I would consider "definitive" just yet - at least not in the same way my journey stopped when I discovered Kleiber's 7th. After I heard Kleiber's 7th I thought to myself - "OK that's it ... no need to buy any more Beethoven 7's" (but of course I couldn't help myself).

BTW, I know I have been a little lukewarm about the Furtwangler in my above post - but you NEED to hunt down the 1942 Furtwangler/BPO Beethoven 9. It is truly an amazing performance but the downside is that it is easily the worst recording in my collection. It sounds as if the 78 it was recorded from was itself a victim of the bombings.

Aaron - as for the Mahler 6 i've stopped looking. For me it's a toss-up between the Abbado and the Karajan (this time I agree with the critics). I also have, for Mahler 6: Horenstein, Szell, Haitink, and Zander.

[Keith_W]

In terms of most played would be Bach with the Goldberg Variations, Cello Suites (I see Rostropovich died the other day) and cantatas receiving the most playing time.[/b]

Oh, and just out of curiosity ... whose version of the Goldberg Variations do you like? That's another old favourite of mine :)

I haven't really explored the cello suites very much. I just have Pablo Casals and that's it.

[raptor]

About 20% of my cd's would be classical, so about 200 cd's. I have tried to have a wide range of composers to give myself variety, so I go from the 16th century (Monteverdi) to the late 20th century (Copeland). If I judge by the number of recordings/composer, my favourites would be a cliche; Bach/Beethoven/Haydn/Mozart. However I wouldn't say that I really have favourites, at different times/moods I select different recordings and I don't have anything that I listen to repeatedly.

On the Beethoven symphonies, I have a recording with Kleiber/Vienna Philharmonic on DG of the 5th & 7th, and I agree that it is excellent. My favourite 9th is Gunter Wand with the North German Radio Symphony Orchestra (NDR Orchestra) on RCA. The choral side of this is very strong, and the recording quality is very good. At USD 6.98 from Amazon, it's worth considering. I also have Szell/Cleveland (part of a box set), Furtwängler/Bayreuth Festival Orchestra & Chorus (1951 recording), Weingartner/Vienna Philharmonic (1935 mono recording) and Wolfgang Sawallisch/Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam (my earliest cd purchase of the piece). The Wand is easily my favourite, I hardly ever listen to the others.

[Kevin]

Oh, and just out of curiosity ... whose version of the Goldberg Variations do you like? That's another old favourite of mine :)

I haven't really explored the cello suites very much. I just have Pablo Casals and that's it.[/b]

Goldberg - head and shoulders for me is Andras Schiff in a live (how I would loved to have been there) recording ECM 2003. Second is the Glen Gould from the 50's.

Cello Suites - which Casal do you have. Ours is from the 30's on Naxos and is the favoured version for my cello playing nine year old son. Rostropovich got over worrying that he sounded like Casal and his version is a much better recording. My foible is that my most played version is on the viol de gamba Paolo Pandolfo (Glossa). I find the suites like the Goldberg - always happy to hear another interpretation.

Kevin

[Raaf_ Hornet]

Keith, did Karajan ever record Beethoven's Wellingtons Victory, this along with Shostakovich's 11th Symphony being two of my favourites, Jeff

[blackfox]

OOh a classical thread I love it!!

Unlike what everyone expects of us doof doof ntis ntis lovers of the young male generation (yes i do have a car that you can only hear the bass outside of!) and my music collection does include many many ministry of sound albums.

I would like to say on behalf of the younger generation that I Highly ENJOY Classical music, being a Violinist for 10 years, aswel as guitar player (classical and electric) performing for 7 years on orchestras, i believe there is still some hope for the rest of the upcoming future generation....well maybe not i doubt i could convince many of my friends to sit there and listen to a wonderful Antonio Vivaldo composition, or perhaps something by Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky. but I am hearing a lot of violin/viola/bass riffs throughout much popular music of today so maybe it will creep in.

One band someone might not have heard were called "black violins" who are two black american hip hop artists who play violin, very modernised but with a wonderful touch of classical throughout their music.
Anyways enough of that +1 Vote for me!

[Keith_W]

On the Beethoven symphonies, I have a recording with Kleiber/Vienna Philharmonic on DG of the 5th & 7th, and I agree that it is excellent.[/b]

I have that one too. It's not as good as Kleiber's same effort published by Orpheus. If I recall, it's a 1983 recording. In the digital era, but this one was recorded on analogue. This performance crackles with excitement, and makes the DG disc sound pale by comparison. You really need to try it - it is the 7th to put and end to all Beethoven 7's.


My favourite 9th is Gunter Wand with the North German Radio Symphony Orchestra (NDR Orchestra) on RCA. The choral side of this is very strong, and the recording quality is very good. At USD 6.98 from Amazon, it's worth considering. I also have Szell/Cleveland (part of a box set), Furtwängler/Bayreuth Festival Orchestra & Chorus (1951 recording), Weingartner/Vienna Philharmonic (1935 mono recording) and Wolfgang Sawallisch/Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam (my earliest cd purchase of the piece). The Wand is easily my favourite, I hardly ever listen to the others.[/b]

Thanks for the recommendation. I have sent an email to Discurio asking them to get one for me. I will report back with what I think :) What did you like about the Wand?

[Keith_W]

Keith, did Karajan ever record Beethoven's Wellingtons Victory, this along with Shostakovich's 11th Symphony being two of my favourites, Jeff[/b]

Yes he did (http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-complete-incidental-narration-Wellingtons/dp/B00000E3GU). That's the one I have. I had it on cassette and now on CD. This piece suits Karajan very well. Actually it's the only copy of Wellington's Victory which I own - maybe someone else will know of a better one but I play this piece so rarely that I haven't bothered trying to find a better one.

[Keith_W]

Goldberg - head and shoulders for me is Andras Schiff in a live (how I would loved to have been there) recording ECM 2003. Second is the Glen Gould from the 50's.[/b]

That is one disc I have been meaning to buy for some time. Thanks for reminding me - I will go and order it. I have only two versions of the Goldberg variations - by Glenn Gould from 1956, and by Wanda Landowska. I've had the Landowska for >10 years and I must say that as I grow older I appreciate her more and more.


Cello Suites - which Casal do you have. Ours is from the 30's on Naxos and is the favoured version for my cello playing nine year old son.[/b]

I have the 1936-39 Casals (http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cello-Suiten-Pablo-Casals/dp/B000002S8E). The one with him smoking on the front cover. Amazingly good for such an old recording.

[raptor]

I have that one too. It's not as good as Kleiber's same effort published by Orpheus. If I recall, it's a 1983 recording. In the digital era, but this one was recorded on analogue. This performance crackles with excitement, and makes the DG disc sound pale by comparison. You really need to try it - it is the 7th to put and end to all Beethoven 7's.[/b]

Is this the one you mean Keith. If it is better than the than the 5/7 I have, it is a definite must get.
[attachment=2164:Kleiber_7th.jpg]
Amazon link is
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonie-...0673&sr=1-5 (http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonie-7-Hybrid-SACD/dp/B000EDWLY6/ref=sr_1_5/104-4125064-3187966?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177970673&sr=1-5)


Thanks for the recommendation. I have sent an email to Discurio asking them to get one for me. I will report back with what I think :) What did you like about the Wand?[/b]

I think that the recording quality is the best of the ones that I own. (I am told that it ranks with Bernstein's 1990 "fall of the wall" recording with Vienna Philharmonic on DG for recording quality) The Furtwangler and the Weingartner are wonderful performances (better than the Wand IMHO) but I find them really hard to listen to because the recordings are so bad. Wand's tempo is fairly fast and the performance is energetic.

I particularly like the choral side of the Wand. Edith Wiens, Keith Lewis, Hildegard Hartwig, Roland Hermann are vocalists that I had not heard of before, but they do a great job.

Cheers,

[awhw]

Love all sorts of classical music, except piano sonatas. Somehow I can only appreciate solo pianos if I see it been performed live. Anything else I'd be dozing off in no time. Must be my lousy hifi setup. :biggrin:

The best thing to happen to the classical music scene in recent times has to be the appointment of Vladimir Ashkenazy to lead the Sydney Symphony. Should be interesting when he's over here to conduct Rachmaninov in November.

[davidsss]

Now that's a good point. I think I need to go and see an orchestra live before I really try and get into classical recordings. Wonder if my partner wants to go.

DS

[Mr_Gimlet]

Now that's a good point. I think I need to go and see an orchestra live before I really try and get into classical recordings. Wonder if my partner wants to go.

DS[/b]

Try an opera - Carmen is on at the Athenaeum early to mid June and the tickets are inexpensive because it's Victorian Opera or someone.

[bratislav]

OK I can't be the only classical music guy around here. I think I count Mr_Gimlet and mustud52 among the other classical music fans. But Mr_Gimlet likes all that pre-baroque stuff and it appears that his musical taste does not extend beyond the 17th century :p As for mustud ... at least he likes Mahler :)

Are there any other fans here?[/b]


Hi Keith,

I'm also a classic nut :biggrin: . I like recodings of course, but my preference is to use world standard facilities (and I mean world standard!) we have in Melbourne, namely MSO, ACO, Victorian Opera, Opera Australia, the unique Hamer Hall and State Theater to name a few. I've been to quite a few places around the world and believe me we should cherish what we have here.
Just last night's MSO performance of Sibelius was top notch (as usual, one must say), and OA's Rusalka last saturday despite being minimalistic and modern in its setting was simply sublime. I'm still severely jetlagged so I may not quite make sense, please bear with me :wacko:

I see a healthy discussion about Beethoven (why not), and have to say that I agree with what was said almost 100%. I concur that Kleiber's 7th has no peers. What a shame he made so few precious recordings in his life ! But I see maestro Toscanini not being mentioned (his relentless rendition of 5th is universaly accepted as closest to the original, after all Kleiber himself said to be inspired by it); I also concur that Furtwangler's 1942 9th is in a class of its own, and also like Abbado as most balanced out there.
But; I actually prefer Karajan's later recordings to his '63 set, don't think I'll ever have enough Beethoven (you owe to yourself to hear young Gustavo Dudamel/Simón Bolívar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela playing 7th!), and I actually liked Haitink/LSO (some more than the others; their 7th is perhaps not among the best out there). In fact I prefer it as a complete set to say grossly overrated Simon Rattle's box set (Gramophone rated it in top 5 of all times :wacko: )

My classical collection evolves all the time, and it is topped up from all sides - from early baroque (I seem to be buying almost on impulse everything from Hesperion XX/Jordi Savall) to Stravinsky, Arvo Part and lately even John Cage. Still trying to get seriously into Wagner's Ring (just bought a magnificent set from Asher Fisch/Adelade monumental performance in 2004), but I can report that I have 'mastered' and actually quite like (seriously!) Tristan und Isolde (ah, another incomparable recording from Carlos Kleiber!).

So there you have it.
Anyone else on MSO/ACO/OA subsctiption list ? I do see even a ballet or three per year, but my main interest is symphonic/chamber and opera to a lesser extent.

Oh, before I forget, I do listen to jazz too, I guess you are all aware of ongoing Melbourne Jazz festival ? Corea, Burton, Sanders, Hancock, Lagrene, McCoy Tyner - c'mon guys, you don't see them every day !!!

Cheers,
Bratislav

[bratislav]

Oh, and just out of curiosity ... whose version of the Goldberg Variations do you like? That's another old favourite of mine :)

I haven't really explored the cello suites very much. I just have Pablo Casals and that's it.[/b]


For Golberg Variations try Angela Hewitt. It seems Bach piano pieces suit Canadians for some reason :wink:

As far as Bach cello suites, .... let me see.

Slava Rostropovich is still the one and only. And yes, I have Casals as well.
Paolo Pandolfo is very lyrical and -well- Italian :biggrin: I like him a lot.
Misha Maisky is Rostropovich's perhaps most famous pupil, but has developed pretty much his own style. Romantic and at times a bit too sweet.
Yo-Yo Ma is surprisingly closest to Rostropovich in his style. No-nonsense and almost always a good quality recording (unlike Rostropovich).

Other cellists I value highly (but don't have suite recording of) are of course Jordi Savall, Steven Isserlis (whom I've seen live a few times) and Han Na Chang who packs really an incredible energy for a small girl.

Bratislav

[Ralph]

Almost missed this one!

Count me in too.

Preference is for orchestral works, - Symphonic and Chamber.
Main periods are baroque, classical and romantic.
Not a great fan of opera but I do like vocal baroque works, particularly the Bach Cantatas.
Most Russian music is too heavy for my tastes, and I tend to give modern American composers a wide berth.

RalphH

[Mr_Gimlet]

Still trying to get seriously into Wagner's Ring (just bought a magnificent set from Asher Fisch/Adelade monumental performance in 2004)[/b]

I went to that, it was the highlight of the year for me, was truly excellent. Though seeing people in Hungry Jacks in the interval in dinner jackets who had clearly never been there before was a bit odd, as was same people trying to catch a bus with varying degrees of success.


Anyone else on MSO/ACO/OA subsctiption list ? I do see even a ballet or three per year, but my main interest is symphonic/chamber and opera to a lesser extent.[/b]

My fiscal status doesn't extend to an MSO subscription unfortunately, let alone OA. I get lots of corporate invites to sport, but never music :-(

[davidsss]

I don't think going to Opera would suit me as I really don't like Opera at all. I was more thinking of going to see an orchestra one day.

DS

[Keith_W]

Bratislav, sorry I did not check back in this thread earlier. The reason why I did not mention Toscanini was because I haven't heard it. I haven't been a big fan of the sound of American orchestras so I haven't really investigated it very much. I read your response and went up to Melbourne today to look for the Toscanini Beethoven series. It was not available in Thomas, or Discurio, or JB. I have placed an order on the strength of your recommendation and will let you know what I think when it arrives.

And thanks for your recommendations for other cellists - I will look out for them.

I thought I would start off by talking about Beethoven since nearly everyone seems to enjoy him and because there are so many performances available. If I started talking about say ... Schoenberg, I doubt if I would get very many responses :)

Agree with your assessment of the MSO. I went to an Opera Australia production of a Gilbert and Sullivan opera last year and I can't say I enjoyed it. Probably more because it was Gilbert and Sullivan rather than the production itself.

I listen to hardly any jazz and don't know how to appreciate it. The jazz scene in Melbourne seems to be pretty lively. And it's a great place to meet girls ;) Not that i'm in the market any more though!

[Keith_W]

Not a great fan of opera but I do like vocal baroque works, particularly the Bach Cantatas.[/b]

I've been in love with Bach cantatas for a LONG time! My favourite intepreters have to be Karl Richter and Helmuth Rilling. Richter because he has a very traditional German reading - serious and disciplined. However Richter gives a very 60's kind of performance (if you know what I mean). Rilling because he is the opposite - joyful, vivacious, nimble, and modern. Also, Rilling (particularly on the Hanssler label) is very well recorded. I heard the new cycle of Gardiner Bach cantatas at Mr_Gimlet's place and I was pretty impressed, although I haven't been a big fan of Gardiner's anaemic sound in the past. Klemperer is another great Bach interpreter, but I don't own any Klemperer recordings of Bach cantatas. My two favourite versions of St Matthews Passion (arguably the greatest choral piece ever composed) was performed by Richter and Klemperer.


Most Russian music is too heavy for my tastes, and I tend to give modern American composers a wide berth.[/b]

Heh, about the only guys I give a wide berth to are people like Part and Schoenberg. Not used to their sound. Modern American composers can be quite fun. Not sure if you would consider Aaron Copland to be a "modern American composer" but he did write some very nice music. The discs to own were performed by Eiji Oue, on Reference Recordings.

As for the Russkies - these guys are an acquired taste I agree. At the moment I am listening to Prokofiev's "Love for Three Oranges" opera which is really quite fun. Don't buy the whole thing - just get the overture or the highlights. It is also worthwhile listening to some Shostakovich - he uses familiar instruments in many interesting ways and achieves sonorities which are quite different to the Germans. Yes it's a bit bombastic, but you only get out of the music what you put into it. I guess that's what makes classical different to other forms of music - the more put in, the more you get out. I am still hearing new things in Beethoven symphonies that I know almost backwards.

And BTW ... does anyone have a favourite Beethoven sonata interpreter? :)

[mickj1]

....I listen to hardly any jazz and don't know how to appreciate it. ....

.... you only get out of the music what you put into it. I guess that's what makes classical different to other forms of music - the more put in, the more you get out. I am still hearing new things in Beethoven symphonies that I know almost backwards.[/b]

Hi
I like jazz but am still learning about classical music - I hope to educate myself and get some great tips from this site BUT

Yrt a elttil ytilimuh hteiK…eht emas seilppa ot tsom smrof fo cisum!!!

Cheers
Mick

[mickj1]

Hi
Guess I'll have to learn about classical music somewhere else then

Cheers
Mick

[Keith_W]

I've deleted my comment above mick. Obviously it was taken in the wrong way. Sorry about that. That's what happens when you post when you've enjoyed too many glasses of wine :(

[Drizt]

Yrt a elttil ytilimuh hteiK…eht emas seilppa ot tsom smrof fo cisum!!![/b]

hehe, very clever, it took me a while :) . I thought it was in some other language for a second there.

[bratislav]

Heh, about the only guys I give a wide berth to are people like Part and Schoenberg. Not used to their sound. Modern American composers can be quite fun. Not sure if you would consider Aaron Copland to be a "modern American composer" but he did write some very nice music. The discs to own were performed by Eiji Oue, on Reference Recordings.[/b]

Well, it took me a long time to get 'into' Part. Most of his stuff has this hypnotic, almost repetitive quality. I think for people that liked stuff from Fripp and Eno, Part will be an easy step. I like stuff that pushes the envelopes of what we commonly accept as music, therefore Stravinsky, and that's why I'm trying Cage now. I guess Schoenberg is the next :biggrin:


As for the Russkies - these guys are an acquired taste I agree. At the moment I am listening to Prokofiev's "Love for Three Oranges" opera which is really quite fun. Don't buy the whole thing - just get the overture or the highlights. It is also worthwhile listening to some Shostakovich - he uses familiar instruments in many interesting ways and achieves sonorities which are quite different to the Germans. Yes it's a bit bombastic, but you only get out of the music what you put into it. I guess that's what makes classical different to other forms of music - the more put in, the more you get out. I am still hearing new things in Beethoven symphonies that I know almost backwards.

And BTW ... does anyone have a favourite Beethoven sonata interpreter? :)[/b]

"Love for three oranges" was one of the best perfromances of OA I have ever seen. If they play it again, do not miss it ! Especially if Tsypin sets it up again. Fan-tas-tic !

As far as Beethoven sonatas, Emil Gilels. No question about it. Noone else packs as much emotion into it.
Haven't yet heard a good recording of Richter though. Not sure if it exists.

[davidsss]

Well someone played Chopin's Piano Concerto Number 2 at the gtg last night. Very nice, I'll have to find a copy.

DS

[mickj1]

I've deleted my comment above mick. Obviously it was taken in the wrong way. Sorry about that. That's what happens when you post when you've enjoyed too many glasses of wine :([/b]


Hi

I'll try to be more abstinent then (I didn't think 2 glasses was too many!)..... Sorry for the OT remarks; whilst sometimes I can't help being facetious, I am enjoying reading & learning from this thread.

Cheers
Mick

[Keith_W]

"Love for three oranges" was one of the best perfromances of OA I have ever seen. If they play it again, do not miss it ! Especially if Tsypin sets it up again. Fan-tas-tic ![/b]

I did not go to the OA production of "Love for three oranges". I went to the one in London. It was a great production - at one stage a guy carried a crocodile onto the stage and then got eaten by it.


As far as Beethoven sonatas, Emil Gilels. No question about it. Noone else packs as much emotion into it.
Haven't yet heard a good recording of Richter though. Not sure if it exists.[/b]

I've got the Emil Gilels boxed set too :) Richter was a great Beethoven pianist but it's a pity that he did not record all 32 piano sonatas. By far my favourite has to be the 1930's Schnabel recordings. Very scratchy and very poor quality, and technically a very poor pianist, but he seems to be imbued with the spirit of Beethoven. I bought my Schnabel boxed set in 1993 and have played it so many times that some of the discs are so scratched that they skip. I notice that EMI reduced the price a few years ago - now $60 for the whole set. That's great value for 8 CD's. I paid $130 for my set!

[bratislav]

I've got the Emil Gilels boxed set too :) Richter was a great Beethoven pianist but it's a pity that he did not record all 32 piano sonatas. By far my favourite has to be the 1930's Schnabel recordings. Very scratchy and very poor quality, and technically a very poor pianist, but he seems to be imbued with the spirit of Beethoven. I bought my Schnabel boxed set in 1993 and have played it so many times that some of the discs are so scratched that they skip. I notice that EMI reduced the price a few years ago - now $60 for the whole set. That's great value for 8 CD's. I paid $130 for my set![/b]

Interesting. I don't have any boxed sets of Sonatas, was tempted by Gilels for a while but then I had more than half of it on separate CDs, so I restisted. I'll hunt Schnabel, especially after you told me about the discount :wink:

Another of my pet recordings that I never get tired of is Pergolesi's Stabat Mater. I have 4 or 5 different versions, and was long torn between Les Violon du Roy/Rochmann (Dorian) and Scholl/Bonney/Rouset (DECCA) but now I think later is firmly my #1 (ignore the dickhead editorial on Amazon; this was Diapason's recording of the year). I have been lucky to hear the live performance of it over Easter (some rather obscure performers) but nevertheless enjoyed it immensly.

Incidently, either of these is one of my top 5 test CDs, used for checking of midrange purity and ambience retrieval. It was this that sold me onto VAFs, and this a perhaps still one of (very) few recordings where I prefer my i66s even over mighty ATCs.

[Ralph]

The Russians:
Prokofiev is one I can handle. I particularly enjoy his Lieutenant Kije suite.
There is an urban myth that in the 1930's, Prokofiev was offered $2000 / week to write music for Disney movies. He declined, going back to Russia. I often wonder what Western music would be like if he had accepted.
It more the ilk of Rachmaninov and Shostokovich (sp?) that I find too heavy.

Bach cantatas
I do have some Richter which is enjoyable, but I prefer the "original Instrument" style - ie. Harnoncourt (Paul Esswood's contribution is worth the price alone on many discs) but especially the Bach Collegium Japan (Masaaki Suzuki). If I were to get the full collection - it would have to be the Suzuki series (on BIS).
Gardiner is very good and the Montiverdi Choir is usually spot-on. Their series recorded in 2000 is a let down however. Due to the time constraint and location changes, the sound stage, clarity and recording quality is all over the shop like a mad womans breakfast. On the one disc you could be listening to a tight soundstage with clear differentiation and the next tracks jumps you to a boomy cathedral and the choir is suddenly murky.
IMO some to avoid - An old Philips re-release with Aafje Haynis. She has a great alto voice but the recording emphasises the voice not the fact that she is part of the presentation of a Cantata. It could just be my recording but I have a Ton Koopman version ( cantata 4) where the production really should have started again.

American Composers
Have a listen to Philip Glass. A minimalist composer, his use of repeating rhythms is now used as the foundation of much dance and lounge music, but Philip does it with class :cool: . Any one listened to Steve Reich ?

Vivaldi
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the "Famous Blue Raincoat" recording of classical music - the BIS (CD-275) recording of Vivaldi's four seasons (Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble) . For absolute recording perfection, this has to be the pick of any classical collection and the playing and interpretation is as good as the recording quality. I have 4 different complete versions of this work and it is easily the best.

Beethoven
Most of the above posts have mentioned Karajan (uncle Herbie to his mates :rolleyes: ) and similar large scale recordings. For smaller scale, the Academy of Ancient Music does an excellent series. The AAM is often faster and more edgy with a strong emphasis on the woodwind this makes some movements sound more like a military pipe band than a modern orchestra.

Audiophile recordings
I have a Reference Recordings disc of various baroque works. It is very audiophile - every instrument is delineated, and evry nuance of the instrument is recorded, but overall the music isn't. Their is no blend of sound, no contrast of harmonics, little micro dynamics. It sounds like each instrument was recorded separately and then added in a 24 track mix. The AAM is a stronger recommendation for most of these works.
Most classical recordings are made with acoustics in mind and it is rare to find a poor recording (age of original excepted). The difference in actual recording quality between an audiophile label and a well known classical label is usually minimal. The performance and interpretation difference is of higher significance.


Enough rambling - the joys of being at home on sick leave.

RalphH

[Keith_W]

Raptor, that's the one! Until recently, I thought it was a superb recording. On the ProAc's, it sounds appropriately fat and realistic. However I also used it as a test disc when I went to Sydney. It didn't sound that flash when I heard it on the Acapella's - in fact it was the only disc which disappointed. I then took it to Peter's and listened to them on his Australs. Also did not sound all that great. It does sound wonderful on my current system, and also on a few others. I am starting to wonder if it's the recording rather than the system which is at fault. But that does not detract from the performance, which is absolutely first notch. And it looks as if i'm not alone in recommending this disc :)

Ralph, I have found Rachmaninov to be quite accessible since I first heard him, more than 10 years ago. I still think his 2nd Piano Concerto is the greatest piano concerto ever written. I rate this even more highly than the Beethoven 5th (the "Emperor") which was my favourite for years. My favourite performance of Rachmaninov's 2nd is by Sviatoslav Richter - this one (http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninov-Tchaikovsky-Piano-Concertos-Richter/dp/B000001GQD). Some people think that I am a Sviatoslav Richter fanboy. OK I admit it ... I am! I have very rarely heard a Richter that bores me. Even when Richter plays a piece which I can play (with my extremely humble talents), his inventiveness and colour strikes me as original. For example, I can do an imitation of Gould's version of Bach's Prelude in C Major (from the Well Tempered Klavier). But try as I might, I can NOT imitate Richter. When Richter plays Rachmaninov 2, I have no hope of imitating him. His technical mastery and sheer colour is beyond my reach, and beyond the reach of any pianist I have heard so far.

Also, not a fan of Suzuki. I bought ONE Suzuki disc to see if I liked it. It contained his version of "Ein Feiste Burg", one of my favourite Bach Cantatas. Does not hold a candle to my older Richter recording, which is richer and more emotional. The Suzuki is poorly sung by comparison.

I have some Glass. I've got Powaqatsi - which I think surprised Mr_Gimlet when I played it at his place :)

We should have a classical GTG :) Theme it on a composer ... I think that a Beethoven themed GTG would be a good start.

[Mr_Gimlet]

Also, not a fan of Suzuki. I bought ONE Suzuki disc to see if I liked it. It contained his version of "Ein Feiste Burg", one of my favourite Bach Cantatas. Does not hold a candle to my older Richter recording, which is richer and more emotional. The Suzuki is poorly sung by comparison.[/b]

I like the Suzuki version of the St John Passion.

[davidsss]

A classical gtg would be good but we'd need access to a turntable, just about all of my classical is on vinyl, and all the Beethoven I have is.

DS

[Keith_W]

BTW, am I the only Wagner fan here?

[Mr_Gimlet]

BTW, am I the only Wagner fan here?[/b]

Pick me! Pick me! I went to the Adelaide Ring (and Parsifal) and it was fantastic - I'm already on the list for the next one. One of my life's ambitions.

[Gav]

Vivaldi
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the "Famous Blue Raincoat" recording of classical music - the BIS (CD-275) recording of Vivaldi's four seasons (Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble) . For absolute recording perfection, this has to be the pick of any classical collection and the playing and interpretation is as good as the recording quality. I have 4 different complete versions of this work and it is easily the best.

RalphH[/b]

I have been tring to come to grips with Classical music for quite some time, all though I play it regulary It is coming to me very slowly.

Ralph I have to agree with you this recording of the 4 Seasons is one I can really listen to , it is the best recorded CD I have, and I must admit the reason I baught it was because it was on the BIS lable and their recordings are fantastic. When I first played it stopped me in my track & made me sit and listen to it ( fantastic )

When Andrew asked the people attending his get together last november he asked people to bring their Favorite
LP or CD this CD by BIS, The 4 Seasons Vivaldi ( Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble ) was what I brought unfortunatly the Only time it got played was when I was the only one in the listening Room apart from Andrew and terry who were to busy with the DEQX, I herd it on Andrews Minstrals and the Shanling Integrated & Shanling CDT 300, from what I herd of it on that system was excellant.

[joz]

Could some one kindly explain to me what a Goldberg variation is??? :blush:

I know I'm still clueless with regards to whats what with classical :wacko:

[terry j]

Joz, you can look up "Goldberg Variation' in the Kuma Satra!!, but I believe your back needs to be in good condition ha ha.

[Kevin]

The Goldberg Variations by legend were written by Bach for an insomniac count who was soothed at night by the music of his harpsichordist Johan Goldberg. There is no dedication on the original publication.

They were originally written for a double manual harpsichord with the theme coming from Anna Magdelena's notebook (Bach's wife). Bach regularly recycled music - so would you if you were producing weekly original music for the Sunday church service. There are 30 variations and it is likely that Bach did not expect them to be played as a unified performance. However I think it is one of the quintessential moments in Bach's music when the original aria returns at the end of the variations. You can not help but here it with new ears after the preceeding variations.

There are many who consider it poor form to play it on a piano. This is a ridiculous viewpoint. I suspect Bach would be entranced with the tonal qualities of a modern forte piano.

My favourite - Andras Schiff ECM 2003

Kevin

[Ralph]

Could some one kindly explain to me what a Goldberg variation is??? :blush:

I know I'm still clueless with regards to whats what with classical :wacko:[/b]

Joz

The Goldberg variations are a set of 32 pieces written by Johann Sebastian Bach (The grand master of western music)
The variations consist of a theme (Aria) which is then rewritten into 30 variations, with the theme being revisited as the last piece.
It was originally written for the Harpsichord (the piano as we know it wasn't invented yet), but in now played on many keyboard instruments.
What makes the variations so remarkable is the wealth of variations based on the one theme is so diverse and yet also musically satisfying.
Imagine if a jazz band took a standard and played it 30 different ways and made all those performances fit together to form one concert coming back to the original standard to finish off.
It was written (published) in 1742 and in the recent survey of Australia's most popular piano pieces came in at a respectable 2nd place !

Hope this helps

RalphH

[Reijo]

It seems that noone has mentioned Sibelius yet, or is he totally unknown for the members of SNA.

Gotta support the Finns you know :biggrin:

[bratislav]

It seems that noone has mentioned Sibelius yet, or is he totally unknown for the members of SNA.

Gotta support the Finns you know :biggrin:[/b]

I'm a big fan of Sibelius (and most Scandinavian composers, particularly Grieg), having spend some wonderful times in Sweden and around. This year is 50 years from his death, shame that only Adelaide seems to have appropriate programme put in place.
My latest Sibelius acquisition is Works for strings (Peter Csaba/Ondine) after hearing magnificent rendition of Rakastava on one of the ACO concerts. (Already had a copy of it with Belkin/Ashkenazy).
Also have authorised copy of Sibelius' Sonatas for Cello after hearing Pieter Wispelwey live with MSO in 2005 :wink: Couldn't get the same from Nigel Kennedy after his performance in Melbourne, he wouldn't bother signing CD's :angry: Can't blame him, he played for nearly three hours (and broke a string!), so it's not like he didn't work hard :biggrin:

Heads up fans of Carmina Burana (it doesn't get performed all that often!) : Melbourne Chorale will perform this spectacular piece on sunday 20th of may (Hammer Hall) for really affordable charge, tickets starting from 45 bucks (40 for MSO subscribers).

How about that for GTG ! :wink:

[Keith_W]

Joz, Bach is endlessly satisfying. He connects on so many levels. Some of the pieces that he wrote do not specify an instrument (the Art of Fugue, for example). I have heard this piece on harpsichord, piano, pipe organ, and even orchestrated for string quartet and orchestra. It is not only satisfying to listen to - if you can read music, the notes are also very pleasurable to read. You can see things in the score that often escapes your notice when you listen to it.

I agree with Kevin - the best Goldberg Variations is by Andras Schiff. I also have the Variations by Gould (1955) and Wanda Landowska.

[Kevin]

I agree with Kevin - the best Goldberg Variations is by Andras Schiff. I also have the Variations by Gould (1955) and Wanda Landowska.[/b]

I see you have acquired a copy Keith. We had two listens through today and Schiff gives the impression of a musician who has been thinking about this music for years.

Slightly off topic - I recall you stating you did not really know how to appreciate jazz. I strongly suspect a man who responds to the Goldbergs will enjoy the musicianship of Keith Jarret. We have the majority of his solo piano concerts and one of life's more pleasurable events is working from Koln to the latest Carnegie Hall concert. Start with Koln and channel Bach. I suspect you will begin to understand the beauty of jazz.

Kevin

[Keith_W]

I see you have acquired a copy Keith. We had two listens through today and Schiff gives the impression of a musician who has been thinking about this music for years.[/b]

I didn't just recently acquire one ... I was going through my Bach collection and I found that I already HAD one, I just forgot that I had it! *slaps forehead* I must have bought it and then filed it away and forgot about it. Easy to do when you usually buy 20 CD's at a time and have a collection as large as mine.

And thanks for the Keith Jarrett recommendation ... I will look him up. And yes I just checked ... I don't already have him in my collection :)

[Ralph]

Joz, Bach is endlessly satisfying. He connects on so many levels. Some of the pieces that he wrote do not specify an instrument (the Art of Fugue, for example). I have heard this piece on harpsichord, piano, pipe organ, and even orchestrated for string quartet and orchestra. It is not only satisfying to listen to - if you can read music, the notes are also very pleasurable to read. You can see things in the score that often escapes your notice when you listen to it.

I agree with Kevin - the best Goldberg Variations is by Andras Schiff. I also have the Variations by Gould (1955) and Wanda Landowska.[/b]

I must get Andras Schiff's version - I already have Glenn Gould (Piano p1982), Bob van Asperen (1719 Harpsichord p1991) Keith Jarret (1988 Harpsichord p1989), Transcription for Strings by Dmitry Sitkovetsky and a version by the Jacques Louissier Trio. My preference (so far) is Glenn Gould's recording - yes it has the humming, the extra noises etc but I hear him think the music and it enables me follow it better.
As a side note - in the late 1980's the corrected original manuscript for the Goldberg variations was found. Musicians knew that the score that they had, contained "errors" but until this discovery no one knew exactly what the errors were. All my versions after this date are considerably longer. Can anyone advise me if the Andras Schiff version based on the revised score ?

Keith - if you appreciate classical but have difficulties with Jazz, then I would recommend the Jacques Louissier Trio. They "Jazzify" classical works, but not as kitsch. Their "Play Bach" series is very good. An other recommendation is Oscar Peterson, especially "Night Train".

RalphH

[JiriAU]

[Keith_W]

I do like opera but unfortunately I don't like Andrea Bocelli. His voice is just too small for opera. You may notice that whenever he sings, the orchestra is either a small one or it has been padded back quite a bit by the recording engineer? I like Pavarotti in his earlier years - he had a great nimble, expressive voice. In his later years he became a bit fat and indulged in theatrics too much.

If you like opera, the next step is to move to lieder :) People who have met me at GTG's know that I always bring along this disc (http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2181) with Elly Ameling singing Schubert lieder. She has a great voice, but my favourite female lieder singer has to be Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. Unfortunately I don't have any Schwarzkopf which is well recorded so I don't bring that along. Lieder is a very different animal to opera - the singer doesn't have to overpower an orchestra, so the songs are more intimate in style and the singer has to concentrate harder on diction and inflections of speech. They have to use their imagination to bring the songs to life. There is no orchestra to hide your mistakes behind - if you stuff up, everyone will hear you. Give it a try :)

And Ralph, yes I do have some Jacques Loussier trio. I have them playing Bach, Chopin, and Satie. Only the Satie seems to work ... I didn't think their Bach and Chopin seemed to make sense musically. I've given them quite a few listens to see if I can "get" it but in the end I think their music was better left in its original form. The Loussier version of La gymnopedie and Gnossienes is brilliant though.

[Ralph]

And Ralph, yes I do have some Jacques Loussier trio. I have them playing Bach, Chopin, and Satie. Only the Satie seems to work ... I didn't think their Bach and Chopin seemed to make sense musically. I've given them quite a few listens to see if I can "get" it but in the end I think their music was better left in its original form. The Loussier version of La gymnopedie and Gnossienes is brilliant though.[/b]

Keith, I know exactly what you mean. The Bach doesn't "flow" as well as the Satie, it's almost too rigid. (Their Baroque album is in the same category as the Bach). If you can, get hold of their CD of Debussy - it's even better than the Satie. (PM me, I'm sure I could arrange a sample.)

As for Andrea Bocelli, I agree - if it wasn't for him being a protoge of Pavarotti, he wouldn't have the popularity he has.

Ralph

A classical GTG sounds promising :)

[davidsss]

To keep off topic a bit :blush:

I, too, don't find jazz to my taste - I don't think it is a matter of not knowing how to appreciate it, it's a matter of taste, it just does nothing for me. However, I have a couple of Keith Jarret albums: Staircase and Hymns/Spheres (organ music) and they are both very good. Keith Jarret is a fine piano player and he makes great music whether you are into jazz or not.

DS

[mickj1]

Hi
After my last foray on this thread :excl: , I decided to go out & get some of the things you all have been talking about- having a jazz background I was keen to sample the Goldberg variations - I couldn't get the Schiff version (on order), but was able to get Angela Hewitt's (piano) and Elizabeth Anderson's (harpsichord). I must say that for me it was everything you've all written about and more - the cleverness of the canons is enthralling - I also picked up some more Vivaldi - the Fabio Biondi 4 seasons was very fresh to my ears after Kennedy's and a couple of Naxos/red label cheapie versions. I also got the complete Vivaldi Lute works w the Drottingham Baroque ensemble (mainly because the store didn't have their 4 seasons version), and a copy of Bartok's Sonata for 2 pianos with percussion and Zubin Mehta's conducting of Carmina Burana for my son who wanted to hear how percussion is used in classical music....

Cheers
Mick

[Keith_W]

Keith, I know exactly what you mean. The Bach doesn't "flow" as well as the Satie, it's almost too rigid.[/b]

Well that's Bach for you :) It is already perfect ... you cannot take a note away, or add a note, without ruining the piece.

Thanks for the Loussier Debussy recommendation. I was not aware that they did one. Debussy sounds like another composer who would be amenable to a jazz translation. Very kind of you to offer a sample, but I prefer to buy my discs :)


A classical GTG sounds promising :)[/b]

You're in the wrong state, my friend :) But I think that Young SKywalker and Terry J both enjoy a bit of classical. They're both still miles away from you but at least they're still in NSW. If you come down to Vic, look me up.

[mickj1]

There have been some attempts to popularise Classical music over the years. The tackiest was Hooked on Classics back in the early eighties with a synthesised drum beat through it. Does anyone remember that? Disney have had issues like Fantasia with classical music throughout, and Telarc had music in their catelogue from movie themes etc which are full of classical music. I remember getting into Grieg from an old Qantas commercial, and Carl Orff's Carmina Burana from a Conan the Barbarian movie.[/b]

Hi
Just wanted to dispute 'the tackiest' quote - surely that must go to B Bumble & the Stingers for their version of 'Nut Rocker'. Honorable mentions also to 'It's now or never' (EP) 'Night' (Jackie Wilson), 'Song of Joy' (forgotten by whom) and the intro to Whiter shade of pale - I think it's amazing that there's been a court case over royalties for it.

Cheers
Mick

[ophool]

Giving the Beethoven recordings a bit of a working out and following up recommendations here.
A couple of observations, the Kleiber 7th, tried the DGG first and really liked it, then got the Orfeo Kleiber 7th (a hybrid SACD - presume this the one Keith_W was talking about) - played it a couple of times yesterday after it arrived and thought it a bit dull, wondered if this was a case of downgrading the Redbook layer in a dubious SACD marketing excercise.
Replayed the DGG and sure enough, it was all I remembered.

Played a vinyl copy of Josef Krips and the LSO (Everest 1960)
- hint for Davidsss - this is a World Record Club release so should be fairly easy to find used.

Replayed the Orfeo, same, not very exciting, seemed subdued and rounded off.
Vinyl again, much better.
Somewhat disappointed, I left off on that for the night.
Gave it another spin (the Orfeo) this morning and for some reason gave it a little more volume, well, that did the trick, it blossomed, now I can hear what the acclaim is about.
I was reminded of reading somewhere that most recordings have an individual optimum playback volume that will vary from recording to recording, certainly this one responded most positively to being fed a little more current.
So, the outcome is all good, this recording is very special given enough rope and the WRC Krips & LSO on vinyl is also remarkably vibrant, at least to me.

[Keith_W]

Sounds a little bit odd, ophool. I like to use that Kleiber 7th (on Orfeo) as a hifi test disc because it is well recorded and because it's just such great music. As such I have heard it on a number of systems, both the SACD and RBCD layer. It usually sounds good, but I have found that on extremely revealing systems (like the Magico Mini's) it can sound a little bit thin around the midrange. Given that the Magico's did so well with everything else I threw at it, I think this is probably the recording rather than the system.

Since we are on the subject ... does anyone have any recommendations for Beethoven's 3rd Symphony? At the moment, the Klemperer is my favourite but this is not really a recording I can recommend to others. He is the opposite of Kleiber's exuberance - he is grand, authoritative, magesterial, but also introspective and a tad depressing. Klemperer definitely has a 1950's orchestral type of sound which you either dig or you don't. Also, my recording is not the best - flat, muffled, and 2 dimensional. It doesn't stop me from enjoying it, but I don't think the Beethoven 3 was meant to sound like this. I get the feeling I am listening to Klemperer more than Beethoven.

I also have Karajan 1963, Bruno Walter, Claudio Abbado, and Bernard Haitink. Once again I rate the Abbado very highly but once you have heard Kleiber's magic 7th, you want to find a magic 3 as well. And Abbado does not have that magic.

[Dr X]

Sounds a little bit odd, ophool. I like to use that Kleiber 7th (on Orfeo) as a hifi test disc because it is well recorded and because it's just such great music. As such I have heard it on a number of systems, both the SACD and RBCD layer. It usually sounds good, but I have found that on extremely revealing systems (like the Magico Mini's) it can sound a little bit thin around the midrange. Given that the Magico's did so well with everything else I threw at it, I think this is probably the recording rather than the system.

Since we are on the subject ... does anyone have any recommendations for Beethoven's 3rd Symphony? At the moment, the Klemperer is my favourite but this is not really a recording I can recommend to others. He is the opposite of Kleiber's exuberance - he is grand, authoritative, magesterial, but also introspective and a tad depressing. Klemperer definitely has a 1950's orchestral type of sound which you either dig or you don't. Also, my recording is not the best - flat, muffled, and 2 dimensional. It doesn't stop me from enjoying it, but I don't think the Beethoven 3 was meant to sound like this. I get the feeling I am listening to Klemperer more than Beethoven.

I also have Karajan 1963, Bruno Walter, Claudio Abbado, and Bernard Haitink. Once again I rate the Abbado very highly but once you have heard Kleiber's magic 7th, you want to find a magic 3 as well. And Abbado does not have that magic.[/b]

Szell's 3rd is the best I have heard. The main reason I like it is that the tempo is quick so it doesn't get too bogged down. On the Sony CD I have it also comes with a good version of the 8th.

[godag]

OK I can't be the only classical music guy around here. I think I count Mr_Gimlet and mustud52 among the other classical music fans. But Mr_Gimlet likes all that pre-baroque stuff and it appears that his musical taste does not extend beyond the 17th century :p As for mustud ... at least he likes Mahler :)

Are there any other fans here?[/b]

Hi Keit

You are not the only classical music guy here, like I told on another tread there is to very much fantastic music in this field to talk breifa about and recomend, it's easer to put a litle at the time.
Have You heard classical works by Bernard Herrman and Alex North and of course their whole soundtracks works -there is a goldmine to find there. Compossion by Francis Poulenc (Stabat Mater) Arvo Pärt, Henryk Gorètski, Alfred Schnitke, Ballet music of Khatchaturian and Stravinskij.. to just mention some pieces. Anybody who has listening to anything above?

Best Regards to You and every one on this thread. // Göran

[nfi42]

Compossion by Francis Poulenc (Stabat Mater) Arvo Pärt, Henryk Gorètski, Alfred Schnitke, Ballet music of Khatchaturian and Stravinskij.. to just mention some pieces. Anybody who has listening to anything above?[/b]I've been listening to alot of Arvo Part recently, amazing stuff. Of the rest, the only composers works I'm not familiar with is Schnitke.

[Mr_Gimlet]

I've been listening to alot of Arvo Part recently, amazing stuff. Of the rest, the only composers works I'm not familiar with is Schnitke.[/b]

I really, really like Part. His Passio is a masterpiece.

[nfi42]

I really, really like Part. His Passio is a masterpiece.[/b]agreed.

[godag]

I really, really like Part. His Passio is a masterpiece.[/b]


Hi Guys

Pärts Passio is truly a masterpiece!

The Best // Göran

ps. is it possible (legal!?) to attach .mp3 or .wma here? Then they can be played by a good Dac.

[Keith_W]

Have You heard classical works by Bernard Herrman and Alex North and of course their whole soundtracks works -there is a goldmine to find there. Compossion by Francis Poulenc (Stabat Mater) Arvo Pärt, Henryk Gorètski, Alfred Schnitke, Ballet music of Khatchaturian and Stravinskij.. to just mention some pieces. Anybody who has listening to anything above?[/b]

Unfortunately I do not like any of those composers you have mentioned. I tried to get into Part and Stravinsky but I did not "get" it. I will have to try again.

[Ralph]

I'm with Keith on this one.
Prokofiev, I can handle but Stravinsky is too esoteric.
It was a broadcast of Stravinsky's firebird suite that evoked a new maxim:
"The longer the piece of music takes to announce, the less listenable it will be."

RalphH

[Mr_Gimlet]

I'm with Keith on this one.
Prokofiev, I can handle but Stravinsky is too esoteric.
It was a broadcast of Stravinsky's firebird suite that evoked a new maxim:
"The longer the piece of music takes to announce, the less listenable it will be."

RalphH[/b]

I quite like the Disney Fantasia setting of Firebird. But that's where my Stravinsky familiarity ends.

[hired goon]

G'day,


Unfortunately I do not like any of those composers you have mentioned. I tried to get into Part and Stravinsky but I did not "get" it. I will have to try again.[/b]
I must admit that "Passio" etc by Part went over my head.

I love some of Part's shorter works like the various arrangements of "Fratres" etc, and neo-classical works like "Fur Alina", and choral works such as "Kanon Pokajaanen" but orchestral works such as "Passio" and "Miserere" just rubbed me the wrong way. Too disjointed and disonnant from memory, but maybe I'll try "Passio" again, given the adulation it is receiving here. I've been known to dismiss stuff too easily in the past only to love it on hearing anew some time later ...

--Geoff

[Keith_W]

My usual way of getting to know music is to put myself in a situation where I can't get away from it. e.g. only CD in the car on a long trip :) I tried that with my Part CD ... could only put up with 10-20 minutes of it before I switched on the radio ...

But I still think the problem is mine, rather than the music. After all, people much smarter than me love it. Ergo, it must be my ignorance. :unsure: :blush:

[Moondog]

I've deleted my comment above mick. Obviously it was taken in the wrong way. Sorry about that. That's what happens when you post when you've enjoyed too many glasses of wine :([/b]

Did U get some Moondog itis Keith HeHe

[Mr_Gimlet]

My usual way of getting to know music is to put myself in a situation where I can't get away from it. e.g. only CD in the car on a long trip :) I tried that with my Part CD ... could only put up with 10-20 minutes of it before I switched on the radio ...

But I still think the problem is mine, rather than the music. After all, people much smarter than me love it. Ergo, it must be my ignorance. :unsure: :blush:[/b]

Thank you for the flattery :-)

I'm surprised you find Passion inaccessible. I would have said that (from other comments above) that lack of familiarity with Bach's passions would be an issue - Part's is more of an, er, variation on Bach's.

[godag]

I've deleted my comment above mick. Obviously it was taken in the wrong way. Sorry about that. That's what happens when you post when you've enjoyed too many glasses of wine :([/b]

Hi Kieth and all aussie classical lovers.. :wink:

I don't think You are totally wrong in this, there are pieces of Pärt and Stravinskij (his music is very fragmental and some fragments are boring time-transports between more interesting fragment, in my point of view) I do like, and others I don't like or not "speaking to my heart". The Firebird Suite is amazing in my point of view and mostly of the Rite of Spring Suite, and it can have to do with music itself and even the history behind them, both create "scandals" in thier premiers openings in many ways (the apperence of Ballet Russe was nearly obscen in the public eyes a century ago).
About Pärt, it depends of what state of mood I'm in if I like to listen to his works, but Pärts personal history is thrilling in my eyes, estonian origin, born, worked and lived inside Soviet Union... one of my favorite pieces of Pärt is "Cantus, in memorium of Banjamin Britten", and what I have heard this work came out of Pärt sorrow of the matter that: Pärt loves the music of Britten, and I think it was not easy to find and listen to this composer in former Soviet same decades ago, but Pärt promise himself that if he could travel outside Soviet just once the first thing he would do was go to UK and trying to meet Britten, but this never happen and Britten suddenly past away, Pärt mourned for a very long time his favourite composer and insperation source, and his sorrow transform in the piece "Cantus [...]".

Have You listen to Aram Khatchaturian, he is one of mine favourites, same people find it simple and even banal -I don't care becouse I do love the melodic tunes and emotionell feelings it has in exampel the Gayeneh Suite, Spartacus Suite, Masquerade etc. During the Stalin era Khatchaturian was nearly descreped as an Yo-Yo.. one day very popular in Moscow and the composer of the people, next day condamed to be a contrarevolutionry formalist..bl.a bl.a and sen to Gulag in Siberia.... and the back to Moscow.. and.. You can't stop to feel a litle bit with this armenian gentleman, can You.

When there is a interesting story behind some composer or work, then it easiear to me to get attention, for example Gustav Mahler, he was totally forgotten in his own country Austria after WW2 of same speciall reason, then ca 15 years ago Leonard Bernstein went to Vienna and put up his works again with austrian orchestras. Some of the young musicians had not ever heard of the name Mahler, but some of them -after starting to play the music and understand the pre WW2 history- started spontanius to cry...

I hope some of You find those reflections interesting, not just a huge text-mass - The Best Gents // Göran

[Gav]

I'm enjoying reading this thread,
I have a Shefield Labs CD with Stravinsky's Firebird Suite (1910) by Erich Liensdorf & the
L A Philhormonic I will have to give it a better listen, It strikes me as hard to get into.

[nfi42]

My usual way of getting to know music is to put myself in a situation where I can't get away from it. e.g. only CD in the car on a long trip :) I tried that with my Part CD ... could only put up with 10-20 minutes of it before I switched on the radio ...

But I still think the problem is mine, rather than the music. After all, people much smarter than me love it. Ergo, it must be my ignorance. :unsure: :blush:[/b]Everyone has different taste in music and Part may not be yours, that's perfectly fine. Personally I hate opera, I've been to see it live numerous times and it just doesn't work for me.

Having said that, I think you are doing yourself a diservice by listining to Part in the car. His music is more on an emotional level then strictly melodic, and also has extremes of dynamic which don't work in a car.

[mustud52]

I have been putting off purchasing new cds until my cd storage situation was fixed - which I delaying until the extra dollar purchase for the ladies baubles to balance my dollar purchase for new hifi was closed out (somehow she seemed to come ahead on the arrangement...strange). About to place an order for a storage cabinet.

Consequently, today this thread has cost me quite a bit of money with Amazon.

Also had to order some of the cds I borrowed from Keith. The next 12 months of listening is booked out.

[JiriAU]

Hi Guys

Can you please let me know what CD’s I should buy using for a demo and of course for an enjoyable listening? I have in mind some classical orchestral pieces with a lot of aggression and big sound if I can use this term. I do have some CD’s but they just not sound the best from TCHAIKOVSKY, STRAVINSKY, SHOSTAKOVICH

I need the exact CD name (NO SACD)

Any help would be appreciated

Jiri AU

[godag]

Thank you for the flattery :-)

I'm surprised you find Passion inaccessible. I would have said that (from other comments above) that lack of familiarity with Bach's passions would be an issue - Part's is more of an, er, variation on Bach's.[/b]


Hi Mates

Discussing classical music is a hard task, because the extremly huge field and centurys of composers and their works (and even not mention personal tastes) -but I think nearly everybody can agree to that J. S. Bach is one of greatest of all time with his very broad reportoares (?) and the time he compose this nearly timeless pieces.

Finding outstanding recordings is a very hard task -records made by Alia Vox can I recomend! Send mail for questions of records to: aliavox@skynet.be

The Best // Göran

[Keith_W]

I went to Discurio today to try to find Part's Passio. No luck ... they did not have a single CD by Arvo Part in stock! I'll have to try again.

JiriAu, if you want a taste of Shostakovich you can try this disc (http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/4095) - Shostakovich Suites: The Bolt, The Age of Gold, and The Tale of the Priest and His Servant Balda (Dmitry Kitajenko). It is an SACD, but it has a RBCD layer. It is an exceptionally good recording, and a great performance. You do need SACD to get the best of it, but it sounds great on RBCD as well. As the review says, "the most fun you can have with your clothes on".

[davidsss]

After hearing Shostakovich at your place I was intrigued, but someone suggested trying some piano concertos first. Haven't found any yet, what else would you suggest, apart from that compilation (maybe I'll look for that too though). I tend to want to find stuff on vinyl but if it's not available on vinyl I'll just find a CD.

Still looking for a nice vinyl copy of Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto by Richter, it'll turn up sooner or later.

DS

[Keith_W]

Still looking for a nice vinyl copy of Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto by Richter, it'll turn up sooner or later.[/b]

Ahh, I had one and sold it along with the rest of my vinyl collection :) You can easily get it on CD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001GQD/classcatthecl-20/) ... cover looks like this:

[davidsss]

Yeah, but I want it on vinyl. It'll turn up.

DS

[mustud52]

Still no mention of Brahms. I love Brahms, so I will have to kick in here. Violin Concerto Op77, I have listened to a few but own the Perlman version (1977, a good year, the year I got married). Symphony 4, I prefer the Bernstein to Karajan - unusual as I usually prefer Karajan for just about everything. Oh, maybe the other exception is for Beethoven 9, where I prefer Mehta with the New York rather than my Teutonic idol.

Keith has got me listening to the Abbado Mahler 9 to wean me off Karajan's version. Totally different styles, and I think I like both.

I won't bother mentioning Orff's Carmina Burana because people seem to scoff at it. However in the right mood it is unbeatable. See, I didn't mention it.

[JiriAU]

Thanks to everyone

If you guys can mention the particular CD like Keith did it would be great I will than get some list and buy it all at once

It can be any good recorded classical music (Mahler, Brahms, Stravinsky's, J. S. Bach,……………….)

Thanks again

[nfi42]

Still no mention of Brahms. I love Brahms, so I will have to kick in here. Violin Concerto Op77, I have listened to a few but own the Perlman version (1977, a good year, the year I got married). Symphony 4, I prefer the Bernstein to Karajan - unusual as I usually prefer Karajan for just about everything. Oh, maybe the other exception is for Beethoven 9, where I prefer Mehta with the New York rather than my Teutonic idol.

Keith has got me listening to the Abbado Mahler 9 to wean me off Karajan's version. Totally different styles, and I think I like both.

I won't bother mentioning Orff's Carmina Burana because people seem to scoff at it. However in the right mood it is unbeatable. See, I didn't mention it.[/b]I love Brahms' clarinet chamber works, particularly the sonatas. I might be a bit biased though being a clarinet player. I also like the German Requium as well as his piano compositions.

Lucky you didn't mention Carmina Burana :rolleyes:

[mickj1]

After hearing Shostakovich at your place I was intrigued, but someone suggested trying some piano concertos first. Haven't found any yet, what else would you suggest, apart from that compilation (maybe I'll look for that too though). I tend to want to find stuff on vinyl but if it's not available on vinyl I'll just find a CD.

Still looking for a nice vinyl copy of Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto by Richter, it'll turn up sooner or later.

DS[/b]

Hi
We went along to the young performers awards (strings) here in Hobart on Thursday night - 3 excellent young performers backed by the TSO; the winner was Shaun Lee-Chen from WA - he played Shostakovich' violin concerto which was a wonderful piece brilliantly executed - you might like to find a recorded version of that to try - The Tasmanian concert was recorded and will be broadcast and shown on TV later in the year (don't know about CD or DVD though).

Cheers
Mick

[mustud52]

Thanks to everyone

If you guys can mention the particular CD like Keith did it would be great I will than get some list and buy it all at once

It can be any good recorded classical music (Mahler, Brahms, Stravinsky's, J. S. Bach,……………….)

Thanks again[/b]

I know that no-one else will recommend this, but I think that investing time in this cd would be intensely rewarding. Some available on Amazon second hand and new, ranging from $8.75 to $112.98!!

http://www.amazon.com/Carmina-Burana-Orff/...4522&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Carmina-Burana-Orff/dp/B00000E2QI/ref=sr_1_1/105-7341876-0230067?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1181984522&sr=8-1)

[godag]

Finding outstanding recordings is a very hard task -records made by Alia Vox can I recomend! Send mail for questions of records to: aliavox@skynet.be

The Best // Göran

I'm so very sorry, but I gave you the wrong site adress (and even not a site adress..) -the right one is:

http://www.alia-vox.com/

They have mostly medevial music, but not just that -a lot of different classical music, with the absolut (swedish indeed) best recording qualite by far that I ever heard on plain CDs!!

Happy New Decenium!! :party // Göran (from Stockholm)

[NellyJamba]

Ahh, I had one and sold it along with the rest of my vinyl collection :) You can easily get it on CD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001GQD/classcatthecl-20/) ... cover looks like this:



Sorry to dig up this old thread again. I have got this CD and it was wonderful piece of music. On the other hand, I have also heard the version by Lang Lang and wonder wtf is wrong with him with that overzealous style.

[audiohobbs]

I am glad you did dig up this old thread, since there are some recommendations in here that I will be looking to acquire. I would imagine the classical music lovers are fairly numerous in this forum by now; many tend to be audiophiles as well.

I am still a novice where classical is concerned but I love listening to many things. Beethoven, Bach, Grieg, Stravinsky, Holst, Orff, the usual sort of stuff. I do like Steve Reich, too, his Diff'rent Trains cd is quite, quite moving. I got into classical vaguely at school via a music teacher, then later in teenage years through Yes, Wakeman and Jon Lord, of course, moving onto the standard bite-size classics like Carmina, Moonlight, and so on. I have no real focus, hence I regard myself as a novice with wide tastes. I have been to classical concerts in Birmingham and Liverpool in the UK as well as the Opera House and City Hall here in Sydney (the joys of having a partner work at the SOH!)

Goldberg variations: Wanda Landowska has a great recording on harpsichord and Keith Jarret's piano versions are interesting - still getting familiar with both of them, really, but these pieces are among my other half's favourites. Along with Beethoven (but doesn't everyone like him? :D)

I am kind of in a similar situation with jazz, although I do focus on sax music and piano jazz, I guess, so have more confidence in talking jazz. Was it Miles Davis who said there are only two types of music: good and bad? Sorta hits the spot :-)

Cheers,

Al.

[hired goon]

G'day,


Was it Miles Davis who said there are only two types of music: good and bad?
If he did he was paraphrasing Oscar Wilde, who said there are only two types of art: good and bad.

--Geoff

[Gabba]

Love Furtwangler's 1942 performance of Beethoven's 9th... pity about the nature of the event and the quality of the recording..

Beethoven is easily my favourite composer (no surprises there...) but I have only really been listening to classical for about a year now... as well as attending many MSO concerts on student rush tickets ($20! :cool:). I do enjoy Dvorak's symphonies and in particular his 5th and 9th. I have listened to a fair amount of Mozart but tend to prefer Tchaikovsky. I have listened to a bit of Ravel, Rachmaniov, Vivaldi, Saint-Saens, Mahler (9th :D), Prokofiev, Schubert, Grieg and Wagner (only highlights...). I really need to get around to listening to more Bach though...